RshnRoket

What do I do now? I've already sold the car at pretty much no value in spite of having a 10,000 mile old engine in the car. Carfax vehicle history came up as a branded vehicle due to mileage, and I had a hell of a time even getting rid of the car to someone.

What would you do now? Local authorities? Transaction was completed on this website, fyi.

Threads associated with the sale:

https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8s-sale-w...s-only-118743/
https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8s-sale-w...c-area-116076/
https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8s-sale-w...c-area-118103/

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

One problem is the age of the transaction, you might not be able to get any police interested in it.

The other problem is that you no longer have the car.

I sympathize, though this is an excellent reason to do your home work on a car you are looking to buy. It's popped up a few times here and there that mileage is stored in the cluster, and when the gauge cluster is swapped from another car, that car's mileage is used instead. No so much a 'rollback' as it is just a straight swap.

I'd at least talk with a police officer to see if there is any possible interest in addressing it. 5 years and not having the car any longer makes it pretty much impossible to prosecute though.

RshnRoket

Unfortunately it's a bit more complicated than that. I still have the 5 year old Carfax when I bought the car (along with all the associated services) in a secure place. The Carfax came out clean at the time of purchase, with approximately 6988 miles on the dash. Now, I had a short lien on the car at the time of purchase as well, and Capital One Auto finance would have never done it had they known. NJ DMV technically would have never registered the car, nor AllState insured the car.

I know I did my homework on this car, as well as taking it to a private mechanic before purchasing it.

Unfortunately I still got hosed. Lesson learned.

RshnRoket

I know. It sucks.

That's what I'm planning on doing. Statute of limitations for fraud in NJ is 6 years, and in NY it is 6 years from the discovery of fraud.

zoom44

who found the 'fraud'?

xexok

So what does the 5 year old carfax show exactly? In 2 years how many miles are you thinking he put on it if it was not the 6700? How did you come to find out it had more on it other than just checking carfax again which was the place that reported it as fine the first time?

RshnRoket

Unfortunately the 5 year old carfax shows nothing before the sale to me. No oil changes were noted, but all of them were done by him. The car only had 6700-6900 miles on it, and he seemed like he had the know-how in terms of performing it, so I trusted him. Ultimately it was my downfall.

The new carfax comes up as a odometer fraud at 6800 miles, before I took ownership. Considering I took out a lien on the car, the VIN was checked beforehand so I know their check came out clean as well.

Statute of limitations in NY and NJ is 6 years, although in NY it's 6 years from the discovery date. NJ is only 6 years from the fraud.


Or is this not worth pursuing? I'm not really seeking compensation, I just don't want this kind of jerk doing this to anyone else.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

You still haven't noted what the mileage difference was....

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

If your not seeking compensation, contact your states attorney's office and see if they will go after the guy.

xexok

It should have shown the time line of the car, at least "purchased by dealer X at X miles" "registered in <location> at X miles" and then it can drop off from there. They don't always list the miles when you re-register or get emissions done even though I think they are supposed to.

Looking at the pictures the guy posted, the interior looks in very very nice condition. There are not any visible wear marks on that silver piece on the side of center console and after 40k miles mine looks like crap there. The seats look to be in great condition also as if there was not a lot of miles on it.

I am still wondering exactly how many miles it says are supposed to be on it and why they came to that conclusion. Would it be possible to see the carfax's, or so you not have both of them?

RshnRoket

You'd have to wait for me to scan them, unfortunately. I don't have a home scanner, and I'm not going into my office until Thursday.

zoom44

just tell us here- whats the mileage discrepancy and who found it?

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Sounds more like forum attention fraud to me

monchie

Let the DMV and the local authorities know about it. I wouldn't be driving a vehicle that has been tampered with, specially the odometer.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Fixed.


You missed the part where he sold the car, the 8th, 9th, and 10th words in his post even. READ Monchie! READ!

jsight

It sounds like you are accusing the seller of mileage fraud based solely on a Carfax? I hope you understand that those can often turn out to be incorrect. If there is no other evidence of mileage fraud, then there likely isn't any actual fraud.

200.mph

iTrader: (9)

yhea number of miles is more of a reason for concern than an aborted suspension.

zoom44

Captain Pepper

in the first sale listing, you said you were "suckered in". how exactly did that happen? did he offer candy?

RshnRoket

Unfortunately I think that's the case here. Every service after 2010 and after about 70,000 miles was not reported on the vehicle's VIN. I sold the car with 97,500.

Not sure what the hell happened. Unfortunately the car is gone, so I don't think anything can be done now.

Apologies to the original owner as this was just a clear misunderstanding.

Edit: Here is the most up to date Carfax. Odometer fraud found out after I bought the car at 6800 miles? Doesn't make much sense.

RshnRoket

Year purchased 2006 2006
Type of owner Personal Personal
Estimated length of ownership 4 months 6 years
Owned in the following states/provinces New York Pennsylvania, New Jersey
Estimated miles driven per year --- ---
Last reported odometer reading 2,280 69,145
Title History
CARFAX guarantees the information in this section Owner 1 Owner 2

Salvage | Junk | Rebuilt | Fire | Flood | Hail | Lemon
No Problem No Problem
Not Actual Mileage | Exceeds Mechanical Limits
No Problem Alert!
Problem Found
Alert! Severe problems were reported by a state Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV). This vehicle does not qualify for the CARFAX Buyback Guarantee.

Additional History
Not all accidents / issues are reported to CARFAX Owner 1 Owner 2

Total Loss
No total loss reported to CARFAX.
No Issues Reported
No Issues Reported
Structural Damage
No structural damage reported to CARFAX.
No Issues Reported
No Issues Reported
Airbag Deployment
No airbag deployment reported to CARFAX.
No Issues Reported
No Issues Reported
Odometer Check
DMV title problems reported.
No Issues Indicated
Odometer Problem
Accident / Damage
No accidents or damage reported to CARFAX.
No Issues Reported
No Issues Reported
Manufacturer Recall
Check with an authorized Mazda dealer for any open recalls.
No Recalls Reported
No Recalls Reported
Basic Warranty
Original warranty estimated to have expired. Interested in an extended warranty?
Warranty
Expired Warranty
Expired
Tell us what you know about this vehicle
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2005 MAZDA RX8

Body Style: Coupe 4 door
Engine Type: 1.3L R0 FI
Standard Equipment: Power Windows, Power Steering, Air Conditioning, AM / FM CD, Power Brakes, Tilt Wheel, 6-digit Odometer
Free CARFAX Report
Town Audi
1-888-285-8180

Distance: 8.17 mi
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2004 MAZDA RX8

Body Style: Coupe 4 door
Engine Type: 1.3L R0 FI
Standard Equipment: Power Windows, Power Steering, Air Conditioning, AM / FM CD, Power Brakes, Tilt Wheel, 6-digit Odometer
Free CARFAX Report
Long Island City Hyundai Mitsubishi
718-361-6900

Distance: 17.95 mi
View Dealer Inventory
Contact Dealer

2006 MAZDA RX8

Body Style: Coupe 4 door
Engine Type: 1.3L R0 FI
Standard Equipment: Power Windows, Power Steering, Air Conditioning, AM/FM CD/MP3, Power Brakes, Tilt Wheel, 6-digit Odometer
Free CARFAX Report
MajorWorld.com
718-937-3937

Distance: 17.95 mi
View Dealer Inventory
View Details & Photos




Glossary
Detailed History


Owner 1
Purchased: 2006
Type: Personal
Where: New York
Est. length owned: 5/2/06 - 9/9/06
(4 months)


Date: Mileage: Source: Comments:
01/21/2005 NICB Vehicle manufactured
and shipped to original dealer
08/04/2005 10 Manhattan Automobile Company
New York, NY
212-581-7800
manhattanauto.com
Pre-delivery inspection completed
03/08/2006 Manhattan Automobile Company
New York, NY
212-581-7800
manhattanauto.com
State inspection completed
Pre-delivery inspection completed
03/30/2006 New York
Inspection Station Emissions inspection performed
Passed safety inspection
View what was inspected

05/02/2006 37 Manhattan Automobile Company
New York, NY
212-581-7800
manhattanauto.com
Vehicle sold
05/02/2006 New York
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Port Jefferson Station, NY Title issued or updated
Registration issued or renewed
First owner reported
Registered as
personal vehicle
Loan or lien reported
Passed safety inspection
06/20/2006 2,226 Manhattan Automobile Company
New York, NY
212-581-7800
manhattanauto.com
Tire condition and pressure checked
Brakes checked
Battery/charging system checked
Oil and filter changed
Brake pads replaced
07/27/2006 2,280 Manhattan Automobile Company
New York, NY
212-581-7800
manhattanauto.com
Vehicle serviced



Owner 2
Purchased: 2006
Type: Personal
Where: Pennsylvania, New Jersey
Est. length owned: 9/9/06 - present
(6 years)


Date: Mileage: Source: Comments:
09/09/2006 4,044 Pennsylvania
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Reading, PA
Title #63710341QU01 Title issued or updated
New owner reported
04/12/2007 5,928 Manhattan Automobile Company
New York, NY
212-581-7800
manhattanauto.com
Brakes checked
Maintenance inspection completed
Battery/charging system checked
Tire condition and pressure checked
Electrical system checked
06/16/2007 New Jersey
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Park Ridge, NJ Registration issued or renewed
Registration updated when owner moved
the vehicle to a new location
Vehicle color noted as Silver
06/16/2007 New Jersey
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Township of Washington, NJ Registration issued or renewed
Vehicle color noted as Silver
06/16/2007 6,800 New Jersey
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Westwood, NJ
Title #WK20071670087 EXCEEDS MECHANICAL LIMITS TITLE ISSUED
Loan or lien reported
CARFAX Advisor™
An EML title is issued when the owner discloses an odometer rollover to a DMV. Rollovers occur on vehicles with 5-digit odometers that go from 99,999 to 00,000 every 100,000 miles.

Mileage reported after this reading is potentially unreliable.
08/11/2007 10,360 Ramsey Automotive Group
ramseycars.com
Battery/charging system checked
Tire condition and pressure checked
Recommended maintenance performed
Brakes checked
Maintenance inspection completed
09/29/2007 13,389 Ramsey Automotive Group
ramseycars.com
Tire condition and pressure checked
Battery/charging system checked
Oil and filter changed
Brakes checked
11/20/2007 Ramsey Automotive Group
ramseycars.com
Recommended maintenance performed
Tire condition and pressure checked
Brakes checked
Battery/charging system checked
Wheels checked
01/19/2008 Ramsey Automotive Group
ramseycars.com
Oil and filter changed
Battery/charging system checked
Tire condition and pressure checked
Brakes checked
03/15/2008 22,848 Ramsey Automotive Group
ramseycars.com
Tire condition and pressure checked
Brakes checked
Battery/charging system checked
Oil and filter changed
04/18/2008 25,154 Ramsey Automotive Group
ramseycars.com
Oil and filter changed
Wheels checked
Brakes checked
Tire condition and pressure checked
Battery/charging system checked
Four tires mounted and balanced
06/24/2008 28,291 Ramsey Automotive Group
ramseycars.com
Recommended maintenance performed
Steering/suspension checked
Battery/charging system checked
Tire condition and pressure checked
Brakes checked
A/C and heating system checked
A/C system checked
09/02/2008 32,502 Ramsey Automotive Group
ramseycars.com
Tire condition and pressure checked
Brakes checked
Oil and filter changed
Battery/charging system checked
10/31/2008 34,817 Ramsey Automotive Group
ramseycars.com
Battery/charging system checked
Steering/suspension checked
Brakes checked
Tire condition and pressure checked
Oil and filter changed
01/30/2009 38,652 Ramsey Automotive Group
ramseycars.com
Brakes checked
Tire condition and pressure checked
Oil and filter changed
Brakes replaced
Battery/charging system checked
03/27/2009 41,540 Ramsey Automotive Group
ramseycars.com
Brakes checked
Recommended maintenance performed
Steering/suspension checked
Battery/charging system checked
Tire condition and pressure checked
Brakes replaced
05/30/2009 44,410 Ramsey Automotive Group
ramseycars.com
Tire condition and pressure checked
Brakes checked
Battery/charging system checked
Oil and filter changed
07/25/2009 47,706 Ramsey Automotive Group
ramseycars.com
Battery/charging system checked
Brakes checked
Tire condition and pressure checked
Oil and filter changed
08/31/2009 50,783 Ramsey Automotive Group
ramseycars.com
Tire condition and pressure checked
Brakes checked
Battery/charging system checked
Oil and filter changed
10/16/2009 53,006 Ramsey Automotive Group
ramseycars.com
Oil and filter changed
Brakes checked
Wheels checked
12/21/2009 55,984 Ramsey Automotive Group
ramseycars.com
Oil and filter changed
Maintenance inspection completed
02/15/2010 58,707 Ramsey Automotive Group
ramseycars.com
Recommended maintenance performed
Battery/charging system checked
Brakes checked
Tire condition and pressure checked
04/09/2010 61,307 Ramsey Automotive Group
ramseycars.com
Maintenance inspection completed
Tire(s) balanced
Tire condition and pressure checked
Oil and filter changed
Steering/suspension checked
Brakes checked
Battery/charging system checked
Console repaired
Front shock absorber(s) replaced
06/12/2010 64,345 Ramsey Automotive Group
ramseycars.com
Antifreeze/coolant flushed/changed
Maintenance inspection completed
Power steering fluid flushed/changed
Oil and filter changed
06/16/2010 New Jersey
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Township of Washington, NJ Registration updated when owner moved
the vehicle to a new location
09/11/2010 67,486 Ramsey Automotive Group
ramseycars.com
Cabin air filter replaced
Maintenance inspection completed
Tire condition and pressure checked
Brakes checked
Battery/charging system checked
Oil and filter changed
Lights checked
10/22/2010 69,145 Ramsey Automotive Group
ramseycars.com
Lights checked
Tires replaced
Print this CARFAX Report and take it to your pre-purchase inspection

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

That appears to be a carfax screw up. Exceeds mechanical limits is functionally impossible on this car, as it will roll over at 999,999 miles + 1. Unless he did 1 million miles in ~56 days (which would require an average of 744 miles per hour without ever stopping)...

I wouldn't see grounds to push for a fraud case here.

My car's history report has a similar entry, because for a service at the dealer around 22,000 miles, they put my license plate number at the time in as the mileage, 721,903 miles. The following entry was around 25,000 miles, and Carfax saw a problem with that.

Now, it's possible that there WAS a gauge cluster failure and he had to swap, but given the reasonable mileage gap from the prior to the next mileage entries, I'd say that it is highly unlikely that the mileage is off by much at all. Definitely not enough to go to court over.

RshnRoket

Unfortunately the title was branded as well. Not just a carfax mistake. Perhaps a DMV fvckup (more likely).

Captain Pepper

I KNOW WHAT HAPPENED!!!

the title has a box after your odometer reading that says "i hereby certify to the best of my knowledge the odometer reading stated is in excess of its mechanical limits"
and another box next to that that says "i hereby state the odometer readin is not the actual mileage -WARNING - ODOMETER DISCREPANCY"

i can almost guarantee you or whoever you sold it to checked off one of those boxes and the dmv, bmv, rmv, wherever it was registered didn't catch it. why do i think this? because i did the same thing when i bought my 8 and the registry caught it questioning me and having me fill out a corrective form that the original owner also had to sign. it was a huge pain in the ***.

i'd try going to your registry and having them make that correction. carfax can change their information easy enough.


best of luck

monchie

Oh...I know how to read.


Yah...whatever