Odometer fraud found on my RX-8
What do I do now? I've already sold the car at pretty much no value in spite of having a 10,000 mile old engine in the car. Carfax vehicle history came up as a branded vehicle due to mileage, and I had a hell of a time even getting rid of the car to someone.
What would you do now? Local authorities? Transaction was completed on this website, fyi. Threads associated with the sale: https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8s-sale-w...s-only-118743/ https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8s-sale-w...c-area-116076/ https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8s-sale-w...c-area-118103/ |
One problem is the age of the transaction, you might not be able to get any police interested in it.
The other problem is that you no longer have the car. I sympathize, though this is an excellent reason to do your home work on a car you are looking to buy. It's popped up a few times here and there that mileage is stored in the cluster, and when the gauge cluster is swapped from another car, that car's mileage is used instead. No so much a 'rollback' as it is just a straight swap. I'd at least talk with a police officer to see if there is any possible interest in addressing it. 5 years and not having the car any longer makes it pretty much impossible to prosecute though. |
Originally Posted by RIWWP
(Post 4358594)
One problem is the age of the transaction, you might not be able to get any police interested in it.
The other problem is that you no longer have the car. I sympathize, though this is an excellent reason to do your home work on a car you are looking to buy. It's popped up a few times here and there that mileage is stored in the cluster, and when the gauge cluster is swapped from another car, that car's mileage is used instead. No so much a 'rollback' as it is just a straight swap. I'd at least talk with a police officer to see if there is any possible interest in addressing it. 5 years and not having the car any longer makes it pretty much impossible to prosecute though. I know I did my homework on this car, as well as taking it to a private mechanic before purchasing it. Unfortunately I still got hosed. Lesson learned. |
Originally Posted by RIWWP
(Post 4358594)
One problem is the age of the transaction, you might not be able to get any police interested in it.
The other problem is that you no longer have the car. I'd at least talk with a police officer to see if there is any possible interest in addressing it. 5 years and not having the car any longer makes it pretty much impossible to prosecute though. |
who found the 'fraud'?
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So what does the 5 year old carfax show exactly? In 2 years how many miles are you thinking he put on it if it was not the 6700? How did you come to find out it had more on it other than just checking carfax again which was the place that reported it as fine the first time?
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Originally Posted by xexok
(Post 4359258)
So what does the 5 year old carfax show exactly? In 2 years how many miles are you thinking he put on it if it was not the 6700? How did you come to find out it had more on it other than just checking carfax again which was the place that reported it as fine the first time?
The new carfax comes up as a odometer fraud at 6800 miles, before I took ownership. Considering I took out a lien on the car, the VIN was checked beforehand so I know their check came out clean as well. Statute of limitations in NY and NJ is 6 years, although in NY it's 6 years from the discovery date. NJ is only 6 years from the fraud. Or is this not worth pursuing? I'm not really seeking compensation, I just don't want this kind of jerk doing this to anyone else. |
You still haven't noted what the mileage difference was....
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If your not seeking compensation, contact your states attorney's office and see if they will go after the guy.
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Originally Posted by RshnRoket
(Post 4359264)
Unfortunately the 5 year old carfax shows nothing before the sale to me. No oil changes were noted, but all of them were done by him. The car only had 6700-6900 miles on it, and he seemed like he had the know-how in terms of performing it, so I trusted him. Ultimately it was my downfall.
The new carfax comes up as a odometer fraud at 6800 miles, before I took ownership. Considering I took out a lien on the car, the VIN was checked beforehand so I know their check came out clean as well. Statute of limitations in NY and NJ is 6 years, although in NY it's 6 years from the discovery date. NJ is only 6 years from the fraud. Or is this not worth pursuing? I'm not really seeking compensation, I just don't want this kind of jerk doing this to anyone else. It should have shown the time line of the car, at least "purchased by dealer X at X miles" "registered in <location> at X miles" and then it can drop off from there. They don't always list the miles when you re-register or get emissions done even though I think they are supposed to. Looking at the pictures the guy posted, the interior looks in very very nice condition. There are not any visible wear marks on that silver piece on the side of center console and after 40k miles mine looks like crap there. The seats look to be in great condition also as if there was not a lot of miles on it. I am still wondering exactly how many miles it says are supposed to be on it and why they came to that conclusion. Would it be possible to see the carfax's, or so you not have both of them? |
Originally Posted by xexok
(Post 4359285)
It should have shown the time line of the car, at least "purchased by dealer X at X miles" "registered in <location> at X miles" and then it can drop off from there. They don't always list the miles when you re-register or get emissions done even though I think they are supposed to.
Looking at the pictures the guy posted, the interior looks in very very nice condition. There are not any visible wear marks on that silver piece on the side of center console and after 40k miles mine looks like crap there. The seats look to be in great condition also as if there was not a lot of miles on it. I am still wondering exactly how many miles it says are supposed to be on it and why they came to that conclusion. Would it be possible to see the carfax's, or so you not have both of them? |
just tell us here- whats the mileage discrepancy and who found it?
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Sounds more like forum attention fraud to me
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Let the DMV and the local authorities know about it. I wouldn't be driving a vehicle that has been tampered with, specially the odometer.
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Originally Posted by monchie
(Post 4359410)
Hi, I'm Monchie, and I don't read.
You missed the part where he sold the car, the 8th, 9th, and 10th words in his post even. READ Monchie! READ! :) |
It sounds like you are accusing the seller of mileage fraud based solely on a Carfax? I hope you understand that those can often turn out to be incorrect. If there is no other evidence of mileage fraud, then there likely isn't any actual fraud.
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Originally Posted by monchie
(Post 4359410)
Let the DMV and the local authorities know about it. I wouldn't be driving a vehicle that has been tampered with, specially the odometer.
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Originally Posted by TeamRX8
(Post 4359399)
Sounds more like forum attention fraud to me
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in the first sale listing, you said you were "suckered in". how exactly did that happen? did he offer candy?
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Originally Posted by jsight
(Post 4359662)
It sounds like you are accusing the seller of mileage fraud based solely on a Carfax? I hope you understand that those can often turn out to be incorrect. If there is no other evidence of mileage fraud, then there likely isn't any actual fraud.
Not sure what the hell happened. Unfortunately the car is gone, so I don't think anything can be done now. Apologies to the original owner as this was just a clear misunderstanding. Edit: Here is the most up to date Carfax. Odometer fraud found out after I bought the car at 6800 miles? Doesn't make much sense. |
Year purchased 2006 2006
Type of owner Personal Personal Estimated length of ownership 4 months 6 years Owned in the following states/provinces New York Pennsylvania, New Jersey Estimated miles driven per year --- --- Last reported odometer reading 2,280 69,145 Title History CARFAX guarantees the information in this section Owner 1 Owner 2 Salvage | Junk | Rebuilt | Fire | Flood | Hail | Lemon No Problem No Problem Not Actual Mileage | Exceeds Mechanical Limits No Problem Alert! Problem Found Alert! Severe problems were reported by a state Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV). This vehicle does not qualify for the CARFAX Buyback Guarantee. Additional History Not all accidents / issues are reported to CARFAX Owner 1 Owner 2 Total Loss No total loss reported to CARFAX. No Issues Reported No Issues Reported Structural Damage No structural damage reported to CARFAX. No Issues Reported No Issues Reported Airbag Deployment No airbag deployment reported to CARFAX. No Issues Reported No Issues Reported Odometer Check DMV title problems reported. No Issues Indicated Odometer Problem Accident / Damage No accidents or damage reported to CARFAX. No Issues Reported No Issues Reported Manufacturer Recall Check with an authorized Mazda dealer for any open recalls. No Recalls Reported No Recalls Reported Basic Warranty Original warranty estimated to have expired. Interested in an extended warranty? Warranty Expired Warranty Expired Tell us what you know about this vehicle Hot Listings® Still looking? Find similar cars just listed for sale in your area. Let us do the work! Get daily updates of MAZDA RX8 vehicles for sale in your area. Email: Zip: 2005 MAZDA RX8 Body Style: Coupe 4 door Engine Type: 1.3L R0 FI Standard Equipment: Power Windows, Power Steering, Air Conditioning, AM / FM CD, Power Brakes, Tilt Wheel, 6-digit Odometer Free CARFAX Report Town Audi 1-888-285-8180 Distance: 8.17 mi View Dealer Inventory Contact Dealer 2004 MAZDA RX8 Body Style: Coupe 4 door Engine Type: 1.3L R0 FI Standard Equipment: Power Windows, Power Steering, Air Conditioning, AM / FM CD, Power Brakes, Tilt Wheel, 6-digit Odometer Free CARFAX Report Long Island City Hyundai Mitsubishi 718-361-6900 Distance: 17.95 mi View Dealer Inventory Contact Dealer 2006 MAZDA RX8 Body Style: Coupe 4 door Engine Type: 1.3L R0 FI Standard Equipment: Power Windows, Power Steering, Air Conditioning, AM/FM CD/MP3, Power Brakes, Tilt Wheel, 6-digit Odometer Free CARFAX Report MajorWorld.com 718-937-3937 Distance: 17.95 mi View Dealer Inventory View Details & Photos Glossary Detailed History Owner 1 Purchased: 2006 Type: Personal Where: New York Est. length owned: 5/2/06 - 9/9/06 (4 months) Date: Mileage: Source: Comments: 01/21/2005 NICB Vehicle manufactured and shipped to original dealer 08/04/2005 10 Manhattan Automobile Company New York, NY 212-581-7800 manhattanauto.com Pre-delivery inspection completed 03/08/2006 Manhattan Automobile Company New York, NY 212-581-7800 manhattanauto.com State inspection completed Pre-delivery inspection completed 03/30/2006 New York Inspection Station Emissions inspection performed Passed safety inspection View what was inspected 05/02/2006 37 Manhattan Automobile Company New York, NY 212-581-7800 manhattanauto.com Vehicle sold 05/02/2006 New York Motor Vehicle Dept. Port Jefferson Station, NY Title issued or updated Registration issued or renewed First owner reported Registered as personal vehicle Loan or lien reported Passed safety inspection 06/20/2006 2,226 Manhattan Automobile Company New York, NY 212-581-7800 manhattanauto.com Tire condition and pressure checked Brakes checked Battery/charging system checked Oil and filter changed Brake pads replaced 07/27/2006 2,280 Manhattan Automobile Company New York, NY 212-581-7800 manhattanauto.com Vehicle serviced Owner 2 Purchased: 2006 Type: Personal Where: Pennsylvania, New Jersey Est. length owned: 9/9/06 - present (6 years) Date: Mileage: Source: Comments: 09/09/2006 4,044 Pennsylvania Motor Vehicle Dept. Reading, PA Title #63710341QU01 Title issued or updated New owner reported 04/12/2007 5,928 Manhattan Automobile Company New York, NY 212-581-7800 manhattanauto.com Brakes checked Maintenance inspection completed Battery/charging system checked Tire condition and pressure checked Electrical system checked 06/16/2007 New Jersey Motor Vehicle Dept. Park Ridge, NJ Registration issued or renewed Registration updated when owner moved the vehicle to a new location Vehicle color noted as Silver 06/16/2007 New Jersey Motor Vehicle Dept. Township of Washington, NJ Registration issued or renewed Vehicle color noted as Silver 06/16/2007 6,800 New Jersey Motor Vehicle Dept. Westwood, NJ Title #WK20071670087 EXCEEDS MECHANICAL LIMITS TITLE ISSUED Loan or lien reported CARFAX Advisor™ An EML title is issued when the owner discloses an odometer rollover to a DMV. Rollovers occur on vehicles with 5-digit odometers that go from 99,999 to 00,000 every 100,000 miles. Mileage reported after this reading is potentially unreliable. 08/11/2007 10,360 Ramsey Automotive Group ramseycars.com Battery/charging system checked Tire condition and pressure checked Recommended maintenance performed Brakes checked Maintenance inspection completed 09/29/2007 13,389 Ramsey Automotive Group ramseycars.com Tire condition and pressure checked Battery/charging system checked Oil and filter changed Brakes checked 11/20/2007 Ramsey Automotive Group ramseycars.com Recommended maintenance performed Tire condition and pressure checked Brakes checked Battery/charging system checked Wheels checked 01/19/2008 Ramsey Automotive Group ramseycars.com Oil and filter changed Battery/charging system checked Tire condition and pressure checked Brakes checked 03/15/2008 22,848 Ramsey Automotive Group ramseycars.com Tire condition and pressure checked Brakes checked Battery/charging system checked Oil and filter changed 04/18/2008 25,154 Ramsey Automotive Group ramseycars.com Oil and filter changed Wheels checked Brakes checked Tire condition and pressure checked Battery/charging system checked Four tires mounted and balanced 06/24/2008 28,291 Ramsey Automotive Group ramseycars.com Recommended maintenance performed Steering/suspension checked Battery/charging system checked Tire condition and pressure checked Brakes checked A/C and heating system checked A/C system checked 09/02/2008 32,502 Ramsey Automotive Group ramseycars.com Tire condition and pressure checked Brakes checked Oil and filter changed Battery/charging system checked 10/31/2008 34,817 Ramsey Automotive Group ramseycars.com Battery/charging system checked Steering/suspension checked Brakes checked Tire condition and pressure checked Oil and filter changed 01/30/2009 38,652 Ramsey Automotive Group ramseycars.com Brakes checked Tire condition and pressure checked Oil and filter changed Brakes replaced Battery/charging system checked 03/27/2009 41,540 Ramsey Automotive Group ramseycars.com Brakes checked Recommended maintenance performed Steering/suspension checked Battery/charging system checked Tire condition and pressure checked Brakes replaced 05/30/2009 44,410 Ramsey Automotive Group ramseycars.com Tire condition and pressure checked Brakes checked Battery/charging system checked Oil and filter changed 07/25/2009 47,706 Ramsey Automotive Group ramseycars.com Battery/charging system checked Brakes checked Tire condition and pressure checked Oil and filter changed 08/31/2009 50,783 Ramsey Automotive Group ramseycars.com Tire condition and pressure checked Brakes checked Battery/charging system checked Oil and filter changed 10/16/2009 53,006 Ramsey Automotive Group ramseycars.com Oil and filter changed Brakes checked Wheels checked 12/21/2009 55,984 Ramsey Automotive Group ramseycars.com Oil and filter changed Maintenance inspection completed 02/15/2010 58,707 Ramsey Automotive Group ramseycars.com Recommended maintenance performed Battery/charging system checked Brakes checked Tire condition and pressure checked 04/09/2010 61,307 Ramsey Automotive Group ramseycars.com Maintenance inspection completed Tire(s) balanced Tire condition and pressure checked Oil and filter changed Steering/suspension checked Brakes checked Battery/charging system checked Console repaired Front shock absorber(s) replaced 06/12/2010 64,345 Ramsey Automotive Group ramseycars.com Antifreeze/coolant flushed/changed Maintenance inspection completed Power steering fluid flushed/changed Oil and filter changed 06/16/2010 New Jersey Motor Vehicle Dept. Township of Washington, NJ Registration updated when owner moved the vehicle to a new location 09/11/2010 67,486 Ramsey Automotive Group ramseycars.com Cabin air filter replaced Maintenance inspection completed Tire condition and pressure checked Brakes checked Battery/charging system checked Oil and filter changed Lights checked 10/22/2010 69,145 Ramsey Automotive Group ramseycars.com Lights checked Tires replaced Print this CARFAX Report and take it to your pre-purchase inspection |
That appears to be a carfax screw up. Exceeds mechanical limits is functionally impossible on this car, as it will roll over at 999,999 miles + 1. Unless he did 1 million miles in ~56 days (which would require an average of 744 miles per hour without ever stopping)...
I wouldn't see grounds to push for a fraud case here. My car's history report has a similar entry, because for a service at the dealer around 22,000 miles, they put my license plate number at the time in as the mileage, 721,903 miles. The following entry was around 25,000 miles, and Carfax saw a problem with that. Now, it's possible that there WAS a gauge cluster failure and he had to swap, but given the reasonable mileage gap from the prior to the next mileage entries, I'd say that it is highly unlikely that the mileage is off by much at all. Definitely not enough to go to court over. |
Originally Posted by RIWWP
(Post 4360074)
That appears to be a carfax screw up. Exceeds mechanical limits is functionally impossible on this car, as it will roll over at 999,999 miles + 1. Unless he did 1 million miles in ~56 days (which would require an average of 744 miles per hour without ever stopping)...
I wouldn't see grounds to push for a fraud case here. My car's history report has a similar entry, because for a service at the dealer around 22,000 miles, they put my license plate number at the time in as the mileage, 721,903 miles. The following entry was around 25,000 miles, and Carfax saw a problem with that. Now, it's possible that there WAS a gauge cluster failure and he had to swap, but given the reasonable mileage gap from the prior to the next mileage entries, I'd say that it is highly unlikely that the mileage is off by much at all. Definitely not enough to go to court over. Unfortunately the title was branded as well. Not just a carfax mistake. Perhaps a DMV fvckup (more likely). |
I KNOW WHAT HAPPENED!!!
the title has a box after your odometer reading that says "i hereby certify to the best of my knowledge the odometer reading stated is in excess of its mechanical limits" and another box next to that that says "i hereby state the odometer readin is not the actual mileage -WARNING - ODOMETER DISCREPANCY" i can almost guarantee you or whoever you sold it to checked off one of those boxes and the dmv, bmv, rmv, wherever it was registered didn't catch it. why do i think this? because i did the same thing when i bought my 8 and the registry caught it questioning me and having me fill out a corrective form that the original owner also had to sign. it was a huge pain in the ass. i'd try going to your registry and having them make that correction. carfax can change their information easy enough. best of luck |
Originally Posted by RIWWP
(Post 4359412)
You missed the part where he sold the car, the 8th, 9th, and 10th words in his post even. READ Monchie! READ! :)
Oh...I know how to read. :suspect:
Originally Posted by 200.mph
(Post 4359672)
yhea number of miles is more of a reason for concern than an aborted suspension. :icon_tup:
Yah...whatever |
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