My "improved" RX-7
07-15-2006, 09:29 AM
#51
Originally Posted by bascho
Same amount of money....ok, I expected that answer. Would it last 100,000 miles? If the LS1 and 13b-REW weigh the same amount.....how would you not retain 50/50 balance?
Fuel economy may not be important to you.......but it is to most people. I would choose 400hp and 25mpg on the hwy over 400hp and 15mpg on the hwy any day of the week.
Fuel economy may not be important to you.......but it is to most people. I would choose 400hp and 25mpg on the hwy over 400hp and 15mpg on the hwy any day of the week.
+! to what nycgps said.
07-15-2006, 09:42 AM
#52
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Originally Posted by SayNoToPistons
100k's? maybe... get it done right the first time and take your time building it (bringing it to quality shops with good reputation for anything) and maintaining it and you should have a solid 13brew at 380rwhp+ on pump gas. or you can run c16 which lowers the risk of getting bad gas. please dont think the FD blows up every 50k because it doesnt. it all depends on the owner and how he maintains, builds, and drives it mazdatim over at rx7club has over 95k+ on his motor and turbos. hes been running 14psi's and it sitll pulls strong.
+! to what nycgps said.
+! to what nycgps said.
That's all good info. I honestly don't know a lot about the 13b-REW reliability....so my questions are sincere and not argumentative.
07-15-2006, 05:49 PM
#54
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Just a little on the balance issue, even if both engines weight the same, the LS1 is longer and higher than the 13B and cannot be put as close to the center of the car, hence the difference in balance. The rotary is not the lighest engine by any means, its made of cast iron!, the weight is very compacted tho and does not take up a huge volume.
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Last edited by Renesis_8; 09-11-2011 at 08:59 AM.
07-16-2006, 12:24 AM
#55
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^Exactly. It's not how much it weighs. It's where the weight that is located. Even if it were 50/50 front to back, this is only what it is 2 dimensionally. How is the balance bottom to top? How far is the weight spread from side to side as opposed to the rotary? It's not even close. Too many people compare a 2 dimensional answer to a 3 dimensional problem.
07-16-2006, 12:32 AM
#56
Actually,its just some pretty simple Law of Physics. Take a at the following for example.
lets say.
1----------^----------1
Lets just say the 1 and 1 is the EXCAT same thing. meaning size, shape, mass, all the same. yes this is a 50/50 balance.
But lets say
--1--------^----------1
Ok, Do we see a problem here ? 1 and 1 still has the same mass, but the location changed. where is the 50/50 ? the center of a car will NEVER change. no matter what you do. unless you want to add a tow to the back of your car and call it "center of gravity has been changed"
ok another example.
instead of
1----------^----------1
You change dit to
2--------------^--------------2
YesSSSs its 50/50, but, the length from point A to B has increased, yes its STILL 50 /50 but the thing is that, its not the same as 1----------^----------1 anymore. needless to say, an LS1 has alot more junk than ANY 13B-REW setup has.
I didnt know crap about Rotary before I got my 8 last year, but ever since I got my 8, I research, read, research, read, .... and so on. Hey, Im nowhere near expert. Far Far FAR from it. but Im learning, and oh yes. I know the law of physics.
Apperantly the original thread starter either fell asleep during his high school classes. Or simply dropped out. Things like the above are so simple and I just dont know how he can open his mouth and say its 50/50
sigh .....
lets say.
1----------^----------1
Lets just say the 1 and 1 is the EXCAT same thing. meaning size, shape, mass, all the same. yes this is a 50/50 balance.
But lets say
--1--------^----------1
Ok, Do we see a problem here ? 1 and 1 still has the same mass, but the location changed. where is the 50/50 ? the center of a car will NEVER change. no matter what you do. unless you want to add a tow to the back of your car and call it "center of gravity has been changed"
ok another example.
instead of
1----------^----------1
You change dit to
2--------------^--------------2
YesSSSs its 50/50, but, the length from point A to B has increased, yes its STILL 50 /50 but the thing is that, its not the same as 1----------^----------1 anymore. needless to say, an LS1 has alot more junk than ANY 13B-REW setup has.
I didnt know crap about Rotary before I got my 8 last year, but ever since I got my 8, I research, read, research, read, .... and so on. Hey, Im nowhere near expert. Far Far FAR from it. but Im learning, and oh yes. I know the law of physics.
Apperantly the original thread starter either fell asleep during his high school classes. Or simply dropped out. Things like the above are so simple and I just dont know how he can open his mouth and say its 50/50
sigh .....
Last edited by nycgps; 07-16-2006 at 12:49 AM.
07-16-2006, 12:48 AM
#57
Originally Posted by bascho
Same amount of money....ok, I expected that answer. Would it last 100,000 miles? If the LS1 and 13b-REW weigh the same amount.....how would you not retain 50/50 balance?
Fuel economy may not be important to you.......but it is to most people. I would choose 400hp and 25mpg on the hwy over 400hp and 15mpg on the hwy any day of the week.
Fuel economy may not be important to you.......but it is to most people. I would choose 400hp and 25mpg on the hwy over 400hp and 15mpg on the hwy any day of the week.
Most 7 owners can bump their HP up alot by going with just "stock" JDM parts, Im talking about R-Spec Parts sold thru Mazda Japan(I like their bodykit) Cooling, power. You name it. couple grand should do.
I agree that I would take 400 hp and 25mpg over 400hp and 15mpg. but I would also take this into consideration :
"Is that 400 hp and 25mpg going to be able to match the perfection of the 400hp and 15mpg" ?
For me, Im just going to say, we own one of the stupidest investment, an investment that would only lose value (well, if you can keep it in shape for 40 yrs thats diff, but I doubt it) I dont understand why people whine so much about the engine eats too much gas. Damn it its a sports car, you want to save gas? Go get urself a Prius and remember to replace your batteries after maybe 4-5 yrs.
07-16-2006, 12:52 AM
#58
Originally Posted by IronDonut
Yes without the turbo the 13B is very powerful. As powerful as your average four cyl but with much less torque and much worse fuel economy.
Can you name a 1.3 4 cyclinder with 2.... fine, 230 Hp ?
ok, Name some 2.0, 2.5 even 2.6(if theres one)4 cyclinder engine with 230 hp ?
I really, relaly would like to know one, stock for stock.
Thanks.
PS : Change your title to "My Messy LS7", and dont even try to bring any V6 V8, Cuz even a 3 rotor can smoke you. Im not saying Pistons are bad, but I just dont like the idea people bashing Rotary for this and that.
Last edited by nycgps; 07-16-2006 at 12:56 AM.
07-16-2006, 06:57 AM
#61
Originally Posted by SayNoToPistons
LS7 = c6 z06 motor lol. anyways. wheres that pic comparing the v6 in the 350z and the renesis in the rx8? the one that shows the weight distribution? and about gas mileage. who the hell builds a fsat car for gas mileage?
Bascho has a point there, but the thing is that, I dont think people who's shopping for a 400 hp car cares about mpg much. he should've changed his figures to maybe 100 & 40 vs 100 & 25
07-16-2006, 04:05 PM
#62
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I'll always be a rotary person at heart and will always prefer to use one over any other engine regardless of power level, mileage, or even reliability. The rotary is the only reason that I have ever owned RX-7's and why I love the RX-8. If these cars had piston engines in them I doubt I would have cared as much. The rotary is what makes them what they are. When you take that away, you take away it's character, it's reason for being. If the Mustang came with a rotary engine (god forbid!), I'd probably have liked it. I'm a rotary person and not a piston engine person. I know plenty about them and respect many of them. It doesn't mean I want to see someone drop one into an originally rotary powered car. I don't. I still don't see what the issue would be with a 3 rotor supercharged Corvette C6 other than the fact that the piston engine crowd would be highly offended as many rotary owners are at the reverse scenario. What's the difference? In the end it's your car. If you like it good for you. I don't. Get over it. Just don't get offended when you approach a group of rotary fanatical people and don't get the respect you thought you would. Go post that on a Camaro forum for the desired response. Anyone can drop in a V8 in an RX-7. It's simple. Buy the kit. It's not much harder than installing a cat back or any other mod that requires you to remove and install new parts. There's just more of them. It's a bolt in affair anymore that doesn't require the custom work that such an endeavor once did.
FWIW: It isn't that hard to have a 400hp reliable rotary. The hard part is having a 400hp rotary owner who knows how to take care of it. More rotary failures are the result of stupid owners rather than faulty parts. As usual there are some that just fail but this is true with every engine out there.
Since people want more power and want to do piston engine swaps into a rotary powered car, why not just go all the way and actually be unique? How about installing a V10 or V12 Audi turbo diesel! You'll need to get one from Europe of wait a couple of years. Power, torque, emissions, mileage. You'd have them all. Let's see an american V8 top that! Who cares about balance! You've got power and that's the mainstream American way of thinking. That, turning left, and going as fast as you can over 1320 feet.
FWIW: It isn't that hard to have a 400hp reliable rotary. The hard part is having a 400hp rotary owner who knows how to take care of it. More rotary failures are the result of stupid owners rather than faulty parts. As usual there are some that just fail but this is true with every engine out there.
Since people want more power and want to do piston engine swaps into a rotary powered car, why not just go all the way and actually be unique? How about installing a V10 or V12 Audi turbo diesel! You'll need to get one from Europe of wait a couple of years. Power, torque, emissions, mileage. You'd have them all. Let's see an american V8 top that! Who cares about balance! You've got power and that's the mainstream American way of thinking. That, turning left, and going as fast as you can over 1320 feet.
07-16-2006, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by SayNoToPistons
edit: with all these LS1 swapped 7's... they should swap LS1's in rx8's... now thats a good idea lol.
... that would just be boring
07-16-2006, 07:26 PM
#66
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Most of the rotary's bad gas mileage issues are a result of the really crappy gearing necessary to get a less powerful engine moving. The lousy 4.44 rear end is one issue. It's funny how people want more! Too bad they'd actually go slower!!! If a Corvette or Camaro had a 4.44 rear end, they'd get lousy gas mileage too.
07-16-2006, 11:47 PM
#67
Past Owner :(
I just found a 20B twin turbo on the web for 4 grand. even with misc parts and if you install it yourself, your less than 10,000 and hell of a lot faster. (and it sounds better, and yes, i can too appreciate a nice V8)
if anyone puts a ford V8 into a rx7, they will have to put a handlebar on the back so they can push it when it breaks down
-Steakboy
if anyone puts a ford V8 into a rx7, they will have to put a handlebar on the back so they can push it when it breaks down
-Steakboy
07-17-2006, 10:56 AM
#69
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Originally Posted by SayNoToPistons
more power = boring?! WHAT?!
we couldn't complain about...
- lack of power
- random loss of power
- bad idle
- flooding
- gas milage
- oil consumption
- blown cats
- no aftermarket
- oil in the intake
- being slower then a Honda Accord V6
it would just be boring here
07-17-2006, 11:35 AM
#70
Originally Posted by r0tor
this place would be so boring...
we couldn't complain about...
- lack of power
- random loss of power
- bad idle
- flooding
- gas milage
- oil consumption
- blown cats
- no aftermarket
- oil in the intake
- being slower then a Honda Accord V6
it would just be boring here
we couldn't complain about...
- lack of power
- random loss of power
- bad idle
- flooding
- gas milage
- oil consumption
- blown cats
- no aftermarket
- oil in the intake
- being slower then a Honda Accord V6
it would just be boring here
07-17-2006, 02:08 PM
#72
Registered
Meet V8KILA:
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=545985
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=545985
07-17-2006, 02:17 PM
#73
Originally Posted by nycgps
"Is that 400 hp and 25mpg going to be able to match the perfection of the 400hp and 15mpg" ?
Don't forget to also ask-
"Is 400hp Naturally aspirated better than 400hp forced induction?"
I find it funny that this forum is always quick to praise the RX-8 for its NA power compared to rx-7s that need to turbo in order to get the same power. But that arguement seems to be conveniently forgotten in this thread.
Some of you also seem to be forgetting that twin turbos, an intercooler, and all the piping all have weight, and take up "volume"(as that seems to be the new arguement to villify the LS swap).