r0tor

iTrader: (1)

yippee... here you at least have a warranty

or for a real fun time... how about a 505hp or 600hp Solstice with a warranty

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

47000 ? and price does not include the car. No thanks.

The V8KILA was still on 13b-rew, right ?

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

if you want an entire car engineered to work together from the engine thru suspension and be reliable enough to have a bumper to bumper warranty... your going to pay


I wouldn't doubt the V8KILA has at least $30k dumped into it

otherside

I remember when the popular thing to do was to put a V-8 into a Datsun 240Z. If there was a Datsun forum back then Im sure the Datsun purists would have been pissed. I knew a guy that put a Chevy V-8 into a Porsche 911. Fact is people love to experiment. Saw an article once about a rotary powered MG Midget. Imagine how those MG fans felt about that! I am a long time rotary fan, but I say do whatever makes you happy and have fun!

rotarygod

I still don't see a supercharged 3 rotor in that so what's the big deal? That's my requirement for owning a Vette.

buzzardsluck

I love these arguments. I just want to know why people think the LS1 never breaks down?

To the original poster: your statement of changing the plugs at 100k, great stuff.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

It doest really matter anymore, the original poster knows nothing about rotary, simple as that.

Having a RX7 doesnt mean he knows anything about Rotary

bascho

I agree. I am not against rotaries in anyway....I just think they are too expensive to mod for what you get. How much would it cost to swap in a supercharged 20B into a C6 Vette? You could probably get twice the power by just putting the same amount into the stock LS2.

If money is no object then I agree that rotary power is really nice.....and lot's of power can be obtained. All I'm saying is dollar for dollar you can build more powerful V8's.

bascho

20B for $4k.....that sounds like a pretty good deal.

But I wouldn't talk about Ford V8 reliabilty vs rotary.......rotary will lose.

bascho

Can anyone show me a link to a rotary engine that fits into a car that makes over 3,000hp? Because I could spend all day filling this page up with links to V8's that can make that power. Rotaries are great engines for what they are........but they are extremely limited by displacement. Could a large displacement rotary be extremely powerful......I'm sure it would.......but no one makes one for automotive use.

BaronVonBigmeat

Can anyone show me a vaguely streetable car that can actually put even 1,000 HP to the ground? Without a 12-point cage and 4-link rear and mushy drag racing tires I mean.

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

I'd take the reliabilty of an LS2 making 400whp (stock) or LS7 making 505hp (stock) over a 13b of similar power boosting 20+ psi any day of the week and twice on sunday

rotarygod

First off a larger engine will make any number of horsepower more reliably than a smaller engine trying to make the same power level. It doesn't have to work as hard. This is no secret. This goes back to the saying that there is no replacement for displacement. If all you want is a lot of reliable power and don't mind using the large motor that this requires, use a diesel. It'll go forever and they can outperform gasoline engines easily. My next vehicle will probably be a diesel. Tons of power and damn near indestructible.

bascho

One production car is the Veyron. But there are plenty of cars that are street driven with 1,000hp. Can they get any traction with their foot in it? No. But just because you have 1,000hp doesn't mean you can't drive normally.

bascho

I agree 100%. I read an article in Hod Rod about a TT Duramax diesel V8 that Banks was developing that has 650hp and 800ft/lb of tq. The 650hp was developed at 4,750rpm!!!! and he hoped to raise it into the 5,000 range!!!! For a diesel that is unreal. The 800ft/lb of tq was at 1,500 rpm

Banks is hoping this engine will attract hot rodders and muscle car builders. How cool would it by to have a '57 Chevy with a 650hp Duramax diesel under the hood.

Merc63

Man, it looks like the same people that haven't learned from proof at the RX7club are over here STILL using the same old mistaken assumptions. No way that he gets 50/50 or better? Did your friend mount his LS1 out in front of his RX7s front bumper??? 70/30 f/r is almost utterly impossible in an RX7, even with a cast iron big block!

Dude, we posted video on the RX7 club site that I KNOW you saw. Video that showed an LS1 powered FD on the corner scales and a stock R1 FD, and the V8 one weighed a mere 15 lbs more overall, but weighed almost 60 lbs LESS on the nose! MY V8 FC RX7 weighed less on the nose than a stock FC TII. On the corner scales at Fordahl Motorsports, mine ended up with a 49/51 f/r weight bias with myself (160 lbs) in the car. How that equates into a 70/30 f/r bias in your head is beyond me...

In both cases, the CG was lower than a stocker's.

In the case of my car, it had an aluminum hood and no sunroof, and the crank set lower in the car than the centerline of the rotary. Overall GG was slightly lower than a stock TII with a high mounted intercooler and sunroof (way at the top of the car higher than the driver's head, vs the top of the V8 engine being lower than the driver's chest).

In the case of the FD in the video, the all aluminum LS1 has a lower CG than the 13B turbo due to being ALL aluminum, and the crank sits lower then the eccentric shaft in the rotary. The CG of the aluminum V8 is centered on the crankshaft. the CG of the rotary is centered on the eccentric shaft. The crank in the V8 sites lower than the eccentric. Thus the CG of the V8 is lower. And again, before and after handling tests have shown that teh cars dont' suddenly become top heavy.

Hell, adding a 6 point roll cage, with so much of the tubing above the cowl height (and way above ANY engine in the cars) has a more negative effect on CG, and NO ONE here says a sports car has it's handling ruined by adding a roll bar or roll cage!!!

These cars have been successfully slalom raced before and after the conversions, and the FACT is the balance is retained or improved (and as any good road racer knows, a slight rearward weight bias is perferred, and these cars deliver that), and the handling is retained. Mine was a better slalom racer after the conversion than it was before, and the only thing I changed from the championship winning autocross setup before the conversion was changing the front swaybar to clear the oil pan.

I've built a number of autocross rotary cars, ownign an R100, RX2, a coupoe RX3s, and a couple first gen RX7s before the FC. I've rebuilt 12As on the dining room table (dont' try this at home if married...) I've crewed with road racing and SCCA rally teams running rotary cars. I like them, and understand them. Trust me, I didn't put a V8 in mine because I wanted an American car. I wanted the torque and inexpensive reliable power in a light, exceelently balanced chassis with oustanding ergonomics, build quality, and style. I will never tell someone to put a V8 in theirs, or that they should like the V8 converted cars better. But I also doint' sit around arguing theory, and have extensive direct experience to back up my statements.

.......................

Here's the video again, for those that missed it:

as has been proven on corner scales, a converted LSx engine RX7 gets more weigh rearward. This is a pair of RX7s on the corner scales, one a V8 car one a stock example. The V8 car weighs a total of 15 lbs more than the stocker, but has LESS weght on the nose. Go ******* figure.

http://207.127.219.37/video/AX.wmv (49.4 MB) (mind you, he's a novice autocrosser, but the center of the vid makes the point)

V8 car, 2732 total lbs, 1379lbs on the front wheels.
rotary car, 2715 total lbs, 1437 lbs on the front wheels. Single camera pan from car to scales.

PROOF.

Here's my car again, going around the autocross course. No problems with balance.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/adesso/rex1.wmv

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/adesso/rex3.wmv

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

Anyone see the LS1FD vs rotary FD in last months Sport Compact Car mag (or maybe Grassroots Motorsports... can't remember)?

They both had about 350whp... I believe the unanomous decision was the "bastardized" FD was more fun to drive and faster in a straight line, but the rotary version was a bit quicker on the road course (but in their opinion probably because in had Falken RT-615 tires vs the LS1 BFG KDW's)

in any event both whooped a LS1 Camaro...

Red Devil

I'm going to have to go to the bookstore now and see if I can find that magazine.

Merc63

It was SCC, and the V8 RX7 they used was a drifter using a very mild V8. It's not the nicest V87 out there by a fairly wide margin, though it's plenty fun.

Engine swaps have been traditional hotrodding for decades in all parts of the world. Whether it's a V8 in an AC Ace creating the Cobra, a V8 in a sunbeam Alpine creating the Tiger, A V8 in an early TVR creating the first Griffiths, to 4 cyl and 6 cyl swaps in all sorts of sports cars over the years. Combining low cost, reliable horsepower with a lightweight chassis is a time-honored method of building a performance car.

Remember, these are machines not religious idols, even if being a car enthusiast often borders on a religion. ALL of them were designed and engineered by humans, and can easily be RE-designed and RE-engineered by other humans, and nothing has been defiled.

In THIS particular case, a hybrid has been created that has proven to work better than ANY of the vehicles that contributed parts to it.

dastallion951

u know honestly Irondonut to each his own platform........but it ur gonna take an FD chassis, n slap a LS1 in it, thats fine, then ur gonna diss the design of that engine, thats fine, but im willin to bet ur ignorant *** didnt even know how to modify that 13B-REW right, it blew up on u so u wanted to be like the other wannabes n turn ur "RX7" into somethin u think is cool........in my opinion ur a follower......why not try somethin different, u couldve taken that LS1, n instead of puttin it on a Rotary powered chassis, why not modify a cavalier.......??? it would be lighter weight just convert it to RWD.......im sure there were a lot of people on here who wouldve given u money for that FD chassis with twin turbo Rotary engine.......now just becuz of what u said n did with that car, i wouldnt **** on ur face if ur gums were on fire.........damn follower.

jeffe19007

Yeah I saw the Sport Compact Car...

They made some lame excuses for the LS1 car. Like the tires. I understand the KDWs to be pretty good. Not 'greasy'. Check what Tire Rack has to say about them.

And they had corner weights in there too. But the rotary RX-7 was 100 lbs heavier in the front left than the right front. Then they used those fuigure to calculate balance.

I mean, I don't have a 3rd gen, but 100 lbs in the front left? Is the driver still in the car? No mention as to how they weighed the cars, driver, no driver, half tank or what...

Here are the figures (I thought about scanning the article, but couldn't figure out what section of the forum it would go into):

RX-7
Front Left 711 Right 595
Rear Left 650 Right 700

Balance 49.2/50.8

LS1
Front Left 688 Right 678
Rear Left 696 Right 677

Balance 49.9/50.1

Now if you figure that from left front figure for the RX-7 is 100 lbs heavy, you get

1261/1295 F/R or 49.3/50.7 for the RX-7

The article tried to be factual. I found some problems and I am not a big driver.

There is a bigger gap between the RX-7 and the LS1 car than there was between the LS1 and the Camaro. And their lap times on Streets of Willow lay out like that:

RX-7 1:26.59
LS1 1:30.44
Camaro 1:33:85

The point they proved well is that late model Camaros are heavy.

hondasr4kids

this is an example of ruined art work. Should've sold the FD and got you a Corvette and save you all the headaches.

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

KDW's are good high performance tires, but are not in the same league as the Falken Rt-615's which are the closest thing your going to get to a racing slick after they heat up.

Merc63

You sound 13.

So in your mind, a Cavalier has the same looks, build quality, ergonomics, suspension, etc as an FD? Or that it's more logical to spend tens of thousands of dollars modding a Cavalier to work as well as a STOCK FD just so your religious worship of a rotary engine isn't displaced? Tell you what. You want someone to do that, YOU pay the difference in cost to mod a Cavalier to RX7 specs.

Again, you sound 13. Damn ignorant, insulting brat.

hondasr4kids

Actually Toyos RA-1 are more aggressive. They just wear fast