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more than just that. I don't pretend to know all the factors, or what Mazda's numbers are, but ...
R+D (to a point)
Tooling
Materials / Parts
Assembly labor
Inspection labor
Shipment
Estimated warranty costs
Government testing and certifications (emissions/crash/etc...)
Advertisements
New training for techs (even trivial amounts add up fast)
Taxes / Import / Export costs
There are probably more that are pretty model-specific.
I would guess though that Mazda's per-car costs have come down enough that a future RX would have similar or slightly lower production costs than the RX-8. I theorize this because of how much they can share with the ND, because of their specific work reducing costs, specific work in increasing production efficiency, etc... Pretty much everything else in the list is probably really standard/typical, and would have applied to the RX-8 too, though the costs on that may have gone up some, even if just from currency exchange rates.
Given an expected $20,000 price tag increase over the RX-8, that's a lot of margin room that I'd have to be really far off on something in order for it to fall to just the RX-8's profit margin. So yes, I expect that there will be a clear profit on the next RX.
Surely a lot of the R+D will have ancillary applications - it won't just be rotary only. New production processes and Concepts will have benefits elsewhere across the brand. It's not just rotary-only....
New metal plating, new machining, new processing. It's a moonshot, but considering all the ancillary technical benefits that came from the real moonshot, there's probably plenty of side-benefits in the back end that make it worthwhile.
Surely a lot of the R+D will have ancillary applications - it won't just be rotary only. New production processes and Concepts will have benefits elsewhere across the brand. It's not just rotary-only....
New metal plating, new machining, new processing. It's a moonshot, but considering all the ancillary technical benefits that came from the real moonshot, there's probably plenty of side-benefits in the back end that make it worthwhile.
I totally agree, hence my "to a point" reference. There are specific R+D that definitely does apply, other R+D that is already covered via other cars, and still more R+D that has long since been written off. For an example on this last point, I wouldn't expect that a Sky-R engine profit margin is going to be trying to recoup R+D spent on the prior 16X.
Even after R&D costs, Mazda did made overall profit on the FD's production run in the US from 1992-95 and in Japan until 2002, so I agree with RIWWP's explanations and assertions of how Mazda can make a clear profit on any new RX-Vision with a $40,000+ price tag, especially with their new production efficiency.
I think Mazda has more than the obvious reasons for wanting another rotary .
They must be making good money on spare parts for old rotaries and they want this to continue into the future.......
New Japanese boss of MNAO Masahiro Moro is already being a pro-active one by starting a marketing push in the snow belt States with Mazda's AWD product (like CX-3)...almost certain you guys will see more AWD models soon, like Mazda 3 and 6. As the US media said, does Mazda have AWD?
Compare this to the previous J J O'Sullivan's 're-active' approach who was frankly dead from the backside up, full of platitudes.
OH, and the RX-Vision just 'Won" the 'Most Beautiful Concept Car of the Year' award in Paris.!!
I think Mazda has more than the obvious reasons for wanting another rotary .
They must be making good money on spare parts for old rotaries and they want this to continue into the future.......
I also suspect there is a motorsports reason too. The talk of the people that matter almost has a quiet subsurface yearning to return to their victory, and I suspect that they would be happiest doing it with the rotary.
Speaking to motoring.com.au, Mazda’s drivetrain and powertrain assistant manager, Tetsushi Marutani, said: “Personally, I think that a rotary with some turbo or compressor would be good."
Yeah, well, personally I think a rotary with good fuel economy and emissions would be good.
And I think I want a pony too. I WAAANT A PONY!!!1!
Who knows, maybe they will do something like the CX-9 and use a small turbo for quick spool up and better torque down low. I remember reading they were working on an electric turbo, maybe they will incorporate their ieLoop system + caps to spool up a larger turbo faster at low rpm's to eliminate lag and then let the engine take over at higher rpms. I guess it would be kind of a superchargerturbo in that sense. That would be ideal to me assuming they got somewhere with working on their electric turbos.
Yeah, well, personally I think a rotary with good fuel economy and emissions would be good.
And I think I want a pony too. I WAAANT A PONY!!!1!
Yep, I am ashamed the crap this online 'motoring' thing puts out from Australia.
These Aussie guys are the ones that always start it (claims) and the rest of the motoring world picks it up as gospel truth and churns it out as fact or something to talk about (usually about 8 hours later), they plagiarize off each other like so many good journalists today, or so called.
Don't get me wrong a lot of these guys do talk to factory guys at industry meets, releases, motor-shows, but, so many times what is asked and what is replied is miss-interpreted (or lost in translation) and or they tell the guy what he wants to hear.
Personally witnessed it.
Another one recently was that Mazda has ''100 techs working on the new SA Rotary'', well they are actually doing both the new gen Skyactiv II's (Bangers) first and the RE comes a long second, they are not exclusive RE as it is represented.
All good though, I hope Mazda comes through with RE, but not at any price, even $40K (USD) is going to be a hard sell, unless it make 350hp without falling apart in 2 years.
Some interesting news on the new CX-9 and it's turbo SA 2.5l.
Makes 250 HP Max on premium fuel, about 220 on low grade gas.
Uses a water cooled (from radiator) EGR Exhaust gas tank to cool some exhaust before being recycled.
"Personally, I think that a rotary with some turbo or compressor would be good," Mazda drivetrain and powertrain assistant manager Tetsushi Marutani ..
His Personal 'opinion' becomes a fact.... and then becomes 'MAZDA says'.
The rumor from day one has been some form of 'a' turbo, was said to be 'electric'.
Hey, we can only hope that half of the "rumors/news" is true. I do personally think it will be either turbo and/or supercharged to deal with low torque on the bottom end of the power curve, and to produce the max power out of a compact rotary powerplant. I am sure there will be some real surprises and technical innovations with regards to ignition and emissions , for better efficiency and tougher world emission standards. It will all sort itself out in the next few years, and I will be ready to add the next RX to my stable.
As a professional journalist for over 30 years, who has covered the auto industry and motorsports, I can say yes we don't know what is fact or fiction yet. We won't know how much these journalists got right or wrong until the total car is revealed, which is years away. In the meantime don't kill the messenger, it is their job to report all that the Mazda folks wish to say to the press. The journalists are giving us stuff to debate ,discuss and/or dismiss. Enjoy the thread. LOL
Last edited by gwilliams6; 02-06-2016 at 07:43 AM.
As a professional journalist for over 30 years, who has covered the auto industry and motorsports, I can say yes we don't know what is fact or fiction yet. We won't know how much these journalists got right or wrong until the total car is revealed, which is years away. In the meantime don't kill the messenger, it is their job to report all that the Mazda folks wish to say to the press. The journalists are giving us stuff to debate ,discuss and/or dismiss. Enjoy the thread. LOL
That's all fine and good so long as the messenger is just that, delivering a message. In the case of these recent articles the messenger is changing the message to increase clicks. This is exactly why people are losing all trust in the media and their ability to report the truth.
People love to hate the media, just listen to any of the political candidates at the debates. So it is useless for me to try and defend all media. But just travel to the many countries that don't have any credible or independent media and see what kind of society they have. For all the times someone in the automotive press is misinformed or inaccurate, we still rely upon them, and want them to let us know what is happening ASAP when we want to know the inside scoop. You can't be everywhere all the time or be listening all the time, so we rely on the media as one important source of knowledge.I am proud to be a career journalist, and a journalism professor,as well as a RX lover.
Last edited by gwilliams6; 02-06-2016 at 02:10 PM.
Yeah Ash, totally agree. It's just professional journalism at it's finest.
Yep, they all sit is a demount-able white tent (Mazda) like at Colorado launch and questions are shot at a few Mazda guys behind a desk/stage, the ones from Japan know the most and have backsides tighter than a rear Rotary Engine Eccentric shaft nut.
They get a bit of a laugh ''feeding the chooks'' (media) with crumbs.
Facts are @ Mazda in Japan you will lose your employment position and never be promoted IF anyone leaks real facts.
Why Mazda and the Japanese are tight as drums with real factual detailed information until they are ready.
Been like this forever.
And yet Mazda knows they NEED the media to get whatever "crumbs" out to the public. Without the media, where would their RX-Vision reveal be ? Nowhere. They need the media to help reach folks and gauge reaction. That helps Mazda determine if they should even build such a car, and/or can it be successful. Only so many folks can visit an auto show in person. Mazda reaches millions more through the media. So say what you want about the media ASH8 and RIWWP, Mazda knows it needs them and will always cultivate them for its corporate benefit.
01-28-2016, 03:23 PM
