EightCostsMoney

iTrader: (2)

I really hope the Sation wagon is brought to the states. I will be getting one and stick the Eight in the garage.

MattMPS

Some news here in EU confirms The launch of sedan at Moscow MS ( end of August) . SW launch will be at Paris ( One month later).

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

Yep. That's my reasoning as well. The race version is targeted to provide 400 hp in the GX series so a street version (Mazdaspeed) should be practical at 275 in my estimation.

Paul.

bse50

It would have to compete against 400+hp m3\m5 cars to be competitive across europe.

rotarygod

Why? Does everyone in Europe drive a BMW? BMW is really nothing special anymore. Their designs are in a word, boring. Audi is the car you buy if you want German.

MattMPS

totally disagree.

IMHO Audi is the "Average Joe premium brand", not focused on drive pleasure....just good marketing....pimped VW's

bse50

Bmw is the german brand to have... i keep driving mazdas though.
If mazda wants to sell that kind of car it has to fight and beat m3\m5 cars at a fraction of the cost. This is Europe, sadly.
That's why only a handful of MPS\Mazdaspeed 3 and 6 were sold. People still like the golf gti\r32 or audi s3 more.

100% true.
Put a golf and an a3 on a lift and you see the same car. Same parts numbers etc.
Sad fact is... put a seat leon there and it's still the same, at 40% the price

MattMPS

This is the real face of VW, guys...

watching some magazine, on line stuff, some Hollywood movie, this forum... i'm pretty sure that VAG USA is trying to screw a LOT of american customers (they have did the same thing -successfully- here in EU for a couple of decades).

They are investing a lot of money for pump inside the brain of US motorists this DOGMA:

"Audi is cool, hi-tech and SPORTY".

this is UNTRUE for about 80% of their products.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

Or would it be up against some product from VW and Audi. The stock 6 could battle the A4 which makes 211 hp and 258 lb/ft torque from it's 2.0 turbo cast iron engine. It's best fuel mileage rating is 24/31 in FWD CVT. Starting weight is 3509 lbs. The all wheel drive version is almost 3700 lbs.

A Mazda 6 MPS should be able to tackle the S4 (333 hp and 325 lb/ft) with better power to weight ratio. It weighs over 3900 lbs I'm not familiar with the rest of the products available in Europe but what ever is in the same class as S4 would be the competition and they need to stay away from any comparisons to WRX or EVO. Wrong comparison.

Paul.

pdxhak

iTrader: (2)

Would a MPS 6 really need to compete against the S4 and M3? Mazda has never really competed in HP wars with other car makers. Does Mazda want to move up to the near luxury market like the A4 and 3 series?

usnidc

I think if they can give 90% of the performance at almost halt the cost, yes, they should market against them.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

I think they can exceed the performance and come in at similar cost. Maybe a little less. The time has come to stop playing second fiddle and establish themselves as a true player in the game.

I'm like a stuck record with this, but, with YEN/USD ratio or even YEN/Euro being what it is, Mazda needs to get more per car and especially on stuff made in Japan. They need to make 'made in Japan' the equivalent 'made in Germany'. Mazda is always viewed as a cheap alternative; until that changes they will struggle with their cheap minded customers until they are no more. Small and unique is good if you can sell it.

Paul.

MattMPS

It's an hard work ,but with stronger yen they are forced to go a little upmarket...

not like audi/BMW but only slightly under

pdxhak

iTrader: (2)

Was it the mid 90s Audi made a strong push to move to near luxury? IMO Acura and Infiniti are basically in the market you guys are describing and I'd love to see Mazda get in that segment. However their Customer Service and overall dealership appearance needs to step up. IMO their "curb appeal" is always somewhat lacking compared to the others.

bse50

They have to compete against the brands that sell here... so Audi and BMW.

Even Opel buys their Corsa chassis from FIAT... same goes for most of their engines.
The Corsa OPC is basically a rebranded fiat punto abarth with a sportier engine and narrower wheelbase.

pdxhak

iTrader: (2)

Why do you think they only need to compete against Audi and BMW? And why in Europe vs the US?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Any guesses of if the 6 could share the underpinnings with the CX-5? I'd guess that yes, they will share a lot to minimize costs. If they do, then an AWD diesel 6 is viable?

Could be quite a serious GT car at that point.

bse50

I don't know much about the american market so i just stick to what i see here.
Mazda sold way less Mazda 3 than Ford did with their Focus. Same happened for each and every class.
A "Mazdaspeed\MPS" model would have to fight against the best selling sport sedans to be a source of income and not a money pit like the rx8. Those sport sedans are made by VW and BMW.

Just like the small segment sees the majority of french manufacturers keeping the lead because FIATs despite being far superior are produced in poland and friggin overpriced.

A Mazdaspeed 3 would see the Focus RS as its direct competitor. People would still buy the RS over the 3 given how mazda prices the cars here...

Mazda Japan should cut all the heads of Mazda Europe and start from scratch.

MattMPS

No..Mazda needs to do it in it's own way...."sportier feel", "dynamic design" and generally driver-oriented.

At least here in EU the "cluster" of brands positioned like this are: BMW (mainly) and Alfa Romeo (but now is crippled, they not have a real line-up).

Acura, Lexus and Infiniti are more "luxury oriented" (i'm excluding super cars..supercars are only a spot for entire brand)..

MattMPS

current JDM Atenza is available in Japan in 4WD version (2.5 liter gas engine). in EU not....

is just a marketing problem.... an entire 4WD lineup for 6 is a good idea....

pdxhak

iTrader: (2)

Infiniti has the G series which I think the Mazda 6 and Mazdaspeed 6 could directly compete against if it moved up market.

Acura has the TL.

Lexus has the IS. Granted this is way more up market and not an area Mazda can really compete with. However it could come into play from a very performance and cost conscience buyer.

IMO their Japanese counterparts is definitely direct competition. Mazda needs to prove they can be just as good. In addition they need prove they can take on Audi and BMW from an overall performance and fit and finish perspective.

usnidc

The M3 starts at $60,000. I think Mazda could do a speed6 that can be competative with the M3 for under $40,000. how many will they sale? that is the question.

Mazda wants to build cars like the Germans but their marketing is like the Koreans.

Bladecutter

Fixed that for you, RG.

BC.

milkis

Mazda wants to build cars like the Germans but their marketing is like the Koreans.[/QUOTE]
i think even koreans have better marketing than mazda.
mazda can't even get their cars imported to korea.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

I, as well believe they may share architecture and therefore the 6 will quite a formidable handler.

Paul.