ASH8

MZ6 Diesel delayed in US until 2014...

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2013...NEWS/130919919

2014 Mazda 6 Diesel Delayed Until Spring 2014 - Rumor Central

Don't know what to think about this one, while I think Davis is being 'straight up' with their Dealers about still passing US 'testing', I am a little more cynical....

This is taking way too long, IMO there are two issues, Mazda just can not make enough of ANYTHING Skyactiv Engines right now, when you have a 250% increase in demand without instant investment (new engine manufacturing lines) a bottleneck happens, Mazda can make the bodies, but not the engines, in mid 2014 new engine plants come on line (Mexico (late 2014) , China, Thailand)....

Then there is the Diesel reliability issue, modern clean diesels are NO GOOD for those buyers/users who do less than a 20 minute one way commute,
I have real concerns US Mazda Dealer selling staff will not address this at point of new car sale..

Basically any Mazda Diesel car could be a consumer (rating) nightmare in North America for Mazda.

I am thinking the latter (see next post Diesel Fuel in Oil Pan issue we had in Australia) could also be attributed to the SA-D's lower than normal compression, fuel blow-by past the piston rings into oil pan when engine is not @ full operating temperature.

ASH8

Yep, just read another new article mentioning the Fuel in Diesel Oil Pan issue we had in Australia, as I said this is an issue with the short commuters (warm engines)....

Mazda Shatters Our Dreams And Delays Diesel 6

Quote:

But our friends over at The Truth About Cars paint a different story. Apparently, Australian market cars have had problems with diesel fuel entering the oil sump, which isn't a good thing. The only solution thus far has been calling for oil changes every 1,200 miles in cars that use the 2.2 liter Skyactiv D, which is mainly the CX-5.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

This sounds like it will turn into a huge clusterf#$k if they release this car in the states. How it is addressed is key I guess.

neit_jnf

Mazda could eliminate the fuel dilution problem by simply using a bypass oil filtration system with a heating element and evaporator to flash diluted fuel and moisture from the oil...

Eco-Pur | Bypass Filtration and Fluid Cleaning Leaders | OPS-1.com

Or adding a fuel injector to the exhaust manifold and use that instead of injecting within the combustion chamber for DPF regen...

Bladecutter

You would think that would be the best and easiest way to do it.
Might even save more fuel, too, since you would only need an injector of just the right size to light off the filter.

BC.

TALAN7

I wouldn't trust a Mazda diesel. My rotary has given me nothing but nightmares regarding reliability. Why would I now buy into their new diesel so I can again have reliability nightmares. I don't think Mazda has the money to fully compete with the larger companies. The 6 is a nice car but it never was a good seller and never will be IMO. They should've made the 6 more of a performance car to stand out from the others. The 3 is their best seller and was a great car but I think they waited too long to fully revamp it. The reason it was so popular was because there was no competition. Now there is...a lot. It's not going to outsell the focus. Honda waisted no time fixing the Civic, the new Corolla finally has some sport injected. The Elantra is really nice looking and cheap. Then you got The Sentra, Golf and others.

Bladecutter

Say what?
You must have the Corolla mixed up with some other car.
There is no sport in the Corolla's driving dynamics:

Car and Driver:
Defining Mainstream Conformity

Jalopnik:

How Toyota Screwed Up The 2014 Toyota Corolla

And there's quite a few other reviews that feel like these ones above.

BC.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

my 8 treats me well, Im waiting for their diesel.

corolla ? ... sports injected? how so ? garbage handling ? garbage power? shitty style ????\

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Those new Corolla ads are driving me nuts.

TALAN7

I haven't read those reviews. I really was speculating based off early previews. How well does the corolla usually sell? My main point was that the new 3 will have a lot more competition (perhaps not from the corolla, even though I think Toyota will sell more), but from more on the performance side as well.

i just read today that Volvo has decided to go more upscale. I believe that's what Mazda should do, go more upscale on their cars. Make them 2-3 grand more but give them much better performance for the enthusiasts drivers. Make the base engine in the 3 the 185 hp engine. Then make the mid level engine say a 240-250 turbo engine. Do the same with the 6. Give it a 200 hp base engine and a 260-280 hp mid level turbo engine. Also make it rear wheel drive for better performance. Price it like a TSX but have much better performance and they'd sell a lot more. Go simpler and instead of adding a bunch of junk like heads up displays in 30 grand Mazda 3s with 185 hp, give it a 250 hp engine and some real performance.

Mazdaspeed RX8 ver2

My 8 is treating me great as well. Rotary and reliability though? Mine lasted a good 100k before needing a rebuild and i was way too happy that it lasted that long. The new 6's are great and i'm waiting for the diesel to be released. Mazda has a lot to offer to the world as a car company and this is their time to finally shine. The Mazda 6 is selling really well, the mazda 3 will be a great seller as the previous generations showed and even though they are delaying the diesel to the states, like others said, it is about the way they handle it that will set the outcome. I'm hoping for the best from them as they are now and independent company. And again.. you really expected your rotary to not have problem? I was pleasantly surprised that i did not have problems with mine but expected a lot of issues when i first bought it and i got one that was built in 03.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

Mazda is already moving upscale and the pricing reflects it to some extent but the money is in bread and butter, not power. The meat for the meal is in gadgets not power; that is where the extra profit is found for a company like Mazda. Some say fuel mileage is the new horsepower as far as car sales go. If that's true, Mazda is on the track to great success. They will never be known for ruling the power wars. Last month Mazda sold 11000 3s and that was the old chassis. They cannot build enough of the 6 right now. CX-5 numbers are crazy as well; they have upgraded output at their plants 3 times to try to keep up.

Paul.

ASH8

Could not agree with you more Paul

Fuel mileage IS the new horsepower, this is why there will not be a new RE anytime soon ..if ever, they just will not cut it...unfortunately, even with SA/DI treatment.
Gas in most western countries (except USA) is pushing $8.00 a gallon or more.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I won't count Mazda out when it comes to doing the impossible. They have done it time and again, and who is to say they won't do the impossible again? ("fuel efficient rotary")

They have some brilliant engineers working there...

ASH8

I never ruled out their capacity to engineer, BUT..there are too many other issues with RE conspiring against them, a very small enthusiast base is just not enough at the mo, Mazda do not make/design cars just exclusively for the US market.

Mazda was really hoping on alternative fuel sources for the RE, but that has not happened, at the mo...any 'new' RE will have to get a min of 30 MPG.

Diesel is their new future...I am concerned these new SA-D's compression ratio is too low for a diesel (fuel wash).

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

A small enthusiast base is entirely viable if Mazda is selling the piston cars hand over fist. The only reason a small enthusiast base would matter is if
A) Mazda required profits or at least not substantial losses from an RE
or B) Mazda CEOs were not part of that base.

If Mazda is making enough money from the piston cars, the upper level of Mazda will order a rotary to happen just because they love driving them too. Never count out what someone will do for passion that makes absolute zero business sense. I think the members here, as well as any weekend racer, etc... are proof of that.

Agreed on the diesel. I'm watching to see how they handle the PR side of it. I'm sure the engineering side is solveable.

Bladecutter

To give you an idea of the Corolla sales volume, in 2011, they sold 240,259 in the US, and in 2012, they sold 290,947. So far this year they are up to 210,296 Corollas sold.

Mazda, on the other hand, in 2011, sold 102,417 Mazda 3's, and in 2012 sold 123,361 Mazda 3's. So far this year they are up to 72,968 Mazda 3's. So, roughly, Mazda sells half as many Mazda 3's as Toyota sells Corolla's in the US. And the Mazda 3 is Mazda's best selling car in the US market, by nearly 50% over the CX-5, and is 2.5x the volume of the Mazda 6 currently.

While all of that sounds like a great idea, you need to remember that performance cars don't sell, grocery getters do. People don't want a performance car to lug their family around. They just want a car that gets them from point A to point B without offending anyone, especially their boss at work.

Honestly, I think Mazda should offer the 2.0 engine in the Mazda 6 here in the US market, in the Sport trim, just like they do in the CX-5. Give it the i-Eloop technology, and have it push that 45 mpg border. It shouldn't be hard at all, and they wouldn't have to worry about any other midsize car hitting that mark with a gasoline engine anytime in the next 5 years, easy.

Mazda is keeping the Sky-Activ gasoline engines right around the 75 hp per liter mark to get good fuel economy, and durability numbers. I bet if they wanted to increase power in the engines, it wouldn't be hard to bump them up to 80 to 90 hp per liter, but that would decrease the fuel economy, of course.

Right now, Mazda is doing the best it's done in years, so honestly, they don't need any advice from us. Let them keep selling the cars they currently are, and let them rake in as much money as they car, so that they can offer us the cars WE as enthusiasts really want to buy, several years down the road.

BC.

ASH8

Well Mazda made zero from the RX-8 in North America and it continues to drain their profits.
No high capacity car company makes any car to make a loss...for anyone, that is just a silly observation.

A bit of reality please, and yes, Mazda's RE enthusiasts base 'was' large, it's current RE reputation is in tatters.

IMO, IF a new RX came out right now we would see 40,000 initial sales worldwide in the first 2 years (30K+10K), and then a 2500-3000 units a year within 3 years....just not enough units, unless you want to pay $60K?

Anyway.......

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Lexus LFA

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

pwnd.

ASH8

Get real...and you don't own them..

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Just making the point that manufacturers can and do produce cars at a loss intentionally. Would Mazda do the exact same thing? Probably not. But when a CEO of a company just wants to produce something because he wants to, it can happen. Even if it's silly, against economics, at a company loss, etc...

I acknowledge that the arguments against another RE are substantial. But too few people ever put any weight on someone wanting to make something "just because the want to". They will make their own personal decisions with that as the only reason and feel justified, but won't allow the same justification for anyone else? Sure they have share holders, but it's not nearly as much of a hindrance as it may seem, especially if they are selling piston economy cars hand over fist. Mazda higher ups have been quite vocal about not giving up on the rotary, their passion for it is well documented. Add in their highly creative engineers that send preconceived notions to the trash bin and yes, I believe those completely nutty guys will do it. Possibly specifically BECAUSE people say that they can't.

ASH8

Yeah right...

neit_jnf

Sky-D Delayed again! No promise date now...

MAZDA TO DELAY SKYACTIV-D CLEAN DIESEL LAUNCH IN NORTH AMERICA - Jan 9, 2014

MattMPS

that's why as european customer i'm very happy with my 2.5 wagon gasoline Mazda6 GJ.