brillo

Mazda is still supporting the Rolex and Grand Am cars which are rotary powered and are competitive, but unfortunately don't get the press ALMS does.

I'm upset the are pulling out of ALMS with the rotary, but hopefully they will be back in in a year or two with an upgraded rotary engine. I hope the DI turbo 4 helps Mazda refine its DI strategy so we can get some of that action rotary style.

I wonder how much BK's inability to get the engine reliable was a factor as well. They seemed to have serious issues tuning the engine correctly. Maybe that factored into the equation as well. We know the engine can be reliable, but for what ever reason, the BK guys did have atough time making it work.

rotarygod

While I know BK had really been giving it their all, I do have to wonder if the engine issues over the past 2 years had anything to do with the fact that they kept changing engine builders seemingly every other race. You'd think it would be best to stick with one person and let them work out the issues as they come. Changing people just means you start over again every time. Maybe it's not like that at all but it sure looks like it is. It's taken nearly 2 years to find a water pump cavitation issue.

I know it looks like I'm pretty hard on Mazda and BK but I'm not actually trying to be mean. I've been supporting and rooting for them for the past 2 years no matter how they've done and have wanted to see them do well. I also have high expectations for the rotary and Mazda. They've always used a rotary in their top race cars and I've always been a Mazda fan for the sole reason that they have the rotary. This is why I'm negative about a potential upcoming 4 cylinder announcement. Fortunately it's only a rumor at this point but the possibility of it becoming true is disappointing.

Senna

I could be wrong but it appears that Mazda Japan has never really committed itself whole-heartedly to this project. Of all powerplants in the series it would seem to me that this one would require the most amount of direct influence from the company.

The thing that confuses me is that when you go to Laguna Seca, they (Mazda) attempt to convey this image of their racing heritage and how important racing continues to be in their blood but on the other hand they take a half hearted approach. You don't see Porsche and Audi working so hard to set an impression. They just go out and do it.

rotarygod

Audi spent tons on developing a diesel engine to be competitive when no one else had one. They won every race this year with it. If enough effort is put into it and the support from the right places, anything is possible.

Renesis_8

I guess we'll just have to accept that they'll run with a turbo 4 in ALMS. It is indeed very very good for advertising their cars equiped with turbo4s. However, why a SUV? the mazdaspeed 6 will be gone after the 07 year model, and so will the mazdaspeed3. When their lolas debut next year, the mazdaspeed cars will have half a year of sales left. And after a year, only CX-7 that'll come with the turbo4.

I really hope that they've not given up on the rotary, it has a lot of potential, hopefully Mazda will have some budget for R&D with the rapid growth of the company later down the road.

The piston powerplant could be more attractive to race teams who want to run a car in ALMS.. But they wouldnt choose Mazda anyways! However the rumour is 2 cars, and both should be factory backed, MNAO that is... so at least it sounds like a huge plan, they're there to compete finally, Acura is running 2 cars too.

I really hope they have a 3rd Lola chassis for the R20B. Or as I said before, 1 piston, 1 rotary.
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iTrader: (1)

I hung out with the guys from Mazda NA, BK Motorsports, Kumho and Road&Track all weeked at the ALMS race, they would not even hint at what is going to happen. All we can do is wait.

brillo

I doubt the CX7, MS3 and MS6 are the last cars to feature that engine. I think a DI non turbo will find its way into the next Mazda6 and mazda3, Kabura and Miata. You could potentially see a MS Miata with it also. The MZR is mazda's core world engine, much like Honda K series.

Racing that engine in various forms is good for Mazda. Its turbo version is Mazda's "V6" outside of the U.S.

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

They should be pretty competitive with the turbo 4. I'd guess it will be a variant of the MZR engine, probably built again in conjunction with cosworth like in the Atlantic series where they get 300 hp from the NA 2.3L...

Senna

If this is true and they've factored it into their long range considerations perhaps the rotary powerplant still has a chance of being around in ALMS. Also, with the pick up in R20B activity in the Rolex series maybe, maybe.....

Senna

http://www.americanlemans.com/Events...%20Entries.pdf

Hmmm???

I haven't reviewed the regs on entry reporting for the teams. Obviously it's a ways off and things could change.

simontemplar09

That's this year's entry list.

Senna

Yep, the link on the homepage promos the 2007 race but all the other links have 2006 dates.

bern

They will need for it to be a variant in the 2.0L range. I know, from previous experience, that Mazda marketing would want it to be as close to production as possible if they do indeed run a piston.

-Bern

Renesis_8

20B Racing Engine specifications
Origin Possibly same as 13G race engine, but not certain.
Capacity 654cc x 3 rotors = 1962cc
Compression ratio Unknown (But 13G is 9.4:1)
Induction Naturally aspirated peripheral port, electronic fuel injection (2 injectors per rotor)
Exhaust Peripheral Exhaust Port
Ignition Distributorless CDI ignition (2 plugs/rotor)
Power/RPM 450ps@8500rpm
Torque/RPM 40kgm@8000rpm
Max RPM Unknown (But 13G is 9500 RPM)
Dimensions Length 675mm Width 549mm Height 520mm
Weight 143kg
Special Features Dry sump


I was browsing the net and came across this information, I think this is the only offical horsepower given by Mazda on the 20B race engine.

Its found on this page.

It makes 450ps.

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rotary crazy

you guys know im a rotary fanatic, but, running the turbo 4 makes a lot of sense for mazda, and I rather see a competitive turbo 4 than a humiliated rotary, if mazda is not going to back the rotary 110% in ALMS then Im all for the turbo 4

Tirminyl

It's not just the engine. RG mentioned that BK kept changing engine builders. That wouldn't help with development. The car wasn't suited for it either. They really needed to take a step back and look at what they had, fix the issues, and I think they would be fine. A turbo 2 or 3 rotor would be fine.

rotary crazy

Dont get me wrong, the bk motorspot program was not the most eficient program by a long shot, the chassis was not meant for a rotary and overweight with cooling issues, the engine was not the best rotary someone can put together, the induction sistem was not the best, etc.

A NA 20b race car can be made competitive in lmp2 dont doubt that for a second, it may not be the fastes car but good and reliable.

Renesis_8

I wonder why Mazda wanted to compete in ALMS in the first place, the LMP2 car was put together in a very short time. Perhaps advertise for the RX-8 two years ago? And now advertise for the turbo4?
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Senna

Seems that they could have come up with a more sensible/effective method for promoting the Rx-8. Such as putting more emphasis in the Rolex Series GT class.

If anything the lack of success with the P2 car might have been more of a negative influence.

Generally though, they haven't made an all out commitment. But according to Dennis Spencer...." Mazda is working around the clock on sponsorship options." What does this tell you?

rotary crazy

In 2005 the car was pretty close to a Championship, the car did not run 2 races and did not finish another and I think only one car finish this race, most of this races with only 3 cars in lmp2, if they would have race all races in the season they would have being very close to winning the championship.

so they only needed to show up and start the race to get a podium, I think this is why this team was put together in such a hurry.

Senna

I think I'd prefer to get some podiums and be competitive in a class with 8-10 cars than win the class that has only 3 cars.

Senna

Finally, at the heart of Mazda’s racing heritage and the brand’s claim to fame as the only Japanese car maker to win the prestigious 24 hours of Le Mans a few former Formula Mazda stars (Jamie Bach, Guy Cosmo, and even ’05 STAR MAZDA CHAMP Raphael Matos in the 12 Hours of Sebring) are piloting a Kuhmo Tire clad 3 rotor prototype in the American Le Mans P2 (prototype 2) class under The Road & Track Magazine colors against the likes of Porsches fielded by Roger Penske, perennial series champions Intersport Racing and their AER power, and in 2007 against the factory backed effort from Acura.

-Excerpt from an article titled "Winning at all levels" by John Doonan in this past weekends program.

Renesis_8

Is the rotary still banned from running the 24hours LeMans?? The turbo 4 if it runs well would get an invitation to Le Mans.
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rotary crazy

no its not banned

rotary crazy

agrred, but I do belive thats why this car was put toghether in such a hurry, the class was almost empty