Laser-fired 16x rotary
07-06-2011, 08:42 AM
#51
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Compound-charged four rotor, with two rotors charging the other two, ala the Moller serial two rotor, then turbo-charged...
07-06-2011, 10:48 AM
#53
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It's a variation on supercharging.
Basically (VERY basically), it means using the power being created by 1 or more combustion cycles to compress the air, but rather than through a turbine, compressing it within the engine itself.
In this above suggestion, the 2nd 2 rotors would be providing the power, the first 2 are only compressing air, then at peak compression, it's feeding that air out of the rotors as the intake of the 2nd two rotors.
I'm not advocating it, a more traditional S/C is probably far more efficient and less complicated.
Basically (VERY basically), it means using the power being created by 1 or more combustion cycles to compress the air, but rather than through a turbine, compressing it within the engine itself.
In this above suggestion, the 2nd 2 rotors would be providing the power, the first 2 are only compressing air, then at peak compression, it's feeding that air out of the rotors as the intake of the 2nd two rotors.
I'm not advocating it, a more traditional S/C is probably far more efficient and less complicated.
07-06-2011, 11:12 AM
#54
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Yeah I was trying to read up about it but there wasnt much detail in the short time I looked.... Plus you wouldn't have the glorious sound of a turbo spooling or a supercharger whining haha
07-06-2011, 11:22 AM
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The theory behind it still has merit I think, if you can 'naturally' compress the incoming charge through the power of the engine, even a psi or a couple psi. Sure, it's not perfectly efficient, but if it's possible without added complication of turbines and entire other parts, etc..., it's something easily jumped on for more power.
There was a video posted here a couple years ago showing someone's design of a miller cycle rotary engine (just a digital animation). In theory it looked like it could work, but like 3 times the moving parts, and the motions they were making would make sealing and long term wear serious issues. (the intake charge and pre-compression was laterally 'beside' the rotor, and was transferred laterally to the rotor itself for combustion)
There was a video posted here a couple years ago showing someone's design of a miller cycle rotary engine (just a digital animation). In theory it looked like it could work, but like 3 times the moving parts, and the motions they were making would make sealing and long term wear serious issues. (the intake charge and pre-compression was laterally 'beside' the rotor, and was transferred laterally to the rotor itself for combustion)
07-06-2011, 11:39 AM
#56
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I think it could be a good Idea also if someone could get it to work but at the same time your replacing those "complicated turbines and other parts" with another complicated rotary chamber and other parts.
The nice thing about traditional turbo/super charging is that they ARE really quite simple for the amount of power increase obtainable.
The nice thing about traditional turbo/super charging is that they ARE really quite simple for the amount of power increase obtainable.
07-06-2011, 11:53 AM
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Agreed with all of the points. It hasn't been done because no one has been able to simplify it more than a belt-driven-turbine setup, and it has to be simple to really start getting used everywhere.
07-07-2011, 08:14 AM
#59
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I have also noticed this, I suspect this means the blower has more flow than the bypass valve.
07-07-2011, 09:34 AM
#60
I'm getting the feel from conversations at the dealers that they are in fact, getting away from the rotary engine. Their top sellers are still the 2 and 3 models. I hope they still have at least one rotary engine in the mix but there may be a 2-5 year delay. This is until the fable 16x comes about, which may or may not happen. I have a feeling it all is based on how well the economy goes and if the new Rotary can meet the new fuel and emissions standards.
07-07-2011, 09:39 AM
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1) Dealers usually don't know what they are talking about. I had one tell me 2 weeks before they got their first 2 that the 2 was delayed another year. They are also salesmen, which is a profession built around the concept of lying.
2) The rotary will never be a focus seller for Mazda, and that isn't a bad thing. I heartily applaud the highest selling models they have, because it means more income for Mazda, more chance of seeing our rotary
3) Delays, economy, and government minimum standards are nothing new. Yes, it's heavily based on the economy, if it can meet the standards, and yes, it will mean delays.
2) The rotary will never be a focus seller for Mazda, and that isn't a bad thing. I heartily applaud the highest selling models they have, because it means more income for Mazda, more chance of seeing our rotary
3) Delays, economy, and government minimum standards are nothing new. Yes, it's heavily based on the economy, if it can meet the standards, and yes, it will mean delays.
07-07-2011, 10:33 AM
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07-07-2011, 11:16 AM
#63
I was telling a dealer about SKYACTIV technology 6 months ago (Actually 3 salesmen at a top dealer) and they had not heard about it. I told one that they were going to get diesel in the US market and he laughed and made some snide comments.
I should sell for them. As a matter of fact, that's what I'm going to do. I'm embarking on a sales drive for all of Mazda North America.
Paul.
I should sell for them. As a matter of fact, that's what I'm going to do. I'm embarking on a sales drive for all of Mazda North America.
Paul.
Go Mazmart!
07-07-2011, 11:59 AM
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07-07-2011, 12:07 PM
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I'd be perfectly happy if they take the current S2 renesis, drop it in the Miata they are currently producing, give it a hard top or not I hardly care, and sell it under whatever name. Even if it's a limited edition or whatever. Maybe give it a few different body panels to keep people from claiming that it is diluting the Miata's purity.
It would sell. I know this because I would buy one. And they could do it at just about zero development investment cost, because those costs were already paid and absorbed.
I see it a way as boosting return on their development costs. And they could improve the reliability considerably if they paid any attention to the findings of the aftermarket community here (ignition, cooling, etc...). With that power to weight though, people would start ignoring the "penalties" of oil and economy, and probably a lower warranty as well.
The only reason I can come up with on why they don't is Europe's emissions control.
/sigh
Just musing mournfully.
It would sell. I know this because I would buy one. And they could do it at just about zero development investment cost, because those costs were already paid and absorbed.
I see it a way as boosting return on their development costs. And they could improve the reliability considerably if they paid any attention to the findings of the aftermarket community here (ignition, cooling, etc...). With that power to weight though, people would start ignoring the "penalties" of oil and economy, and probably a lower warranty as well.
The only reason I can come up with on why they don't is Europe's emissions control.
/sigh
Just musing mournfully.
07-07-2011, 03:29 PM
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It's mind numbing how little salesmen know about cars. I mean seriously, nobody give a **** how many cup holders a car has, yet that the first thing these ***** point out when you get into one. If a salesman can't effectively talk cars with me, I'm not buying from him.
07-08-2011, 10:20 AM
#70
Londons Yellow Peril
SkyActiv is key to the rotary. In that most of Mazdas engine techs are hard at work on SkyActiv.
They are re-designing the whole Mazda engine range to be SkyActiv, in both petrol AND diesel.
Thats a lot of work. They are apparently still continuing with rotary dev, but its on the back burner, probably while they wait for laser sparks etc to be better developed and actually useable.
I think new tech will give the rotary an interesting but currently unknowable future!
They are re-designing the whole Mazda engine range to be SkyActiv, in both petrol AND diesel.
Thats a lot of work. They are apparently still continuing with rotary dev, but its on the back burner, probably while they wait for laser sparks etc to be better developed and actually useable.
I think new tech will give the rotary an interesting but currently unknowable future!
07-08-2011, 06:51 PM
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I'd be perfectly happy if they take the current S2 renesis, drop it in the Miata they are currently producing, give it a hard top or not I hardly care, and sell it under whatever name. Even if it's a limited edition or whatever. Maybe give it a few different body panels to keep people from claiming that it is diluting the Miata's purity.
It would sell. I know this because I would buy one. And they could do it at just about zero development investment cost, because those costs were already paid and absorbed.
I see it a way as boosting return on their development costs. And they could improve the reliability considerably if they paid any attention to the findings of the aftermarket community here (ignition, cooling, etc...). With that power to weight though, people would start ignoring the "penalties" of oil and economy, and probably a lower warranty as well.
The only reason I can come up with on why they don't is Europe's emissions control.
/sigh
Just musing mournfully.
It would sell. I know this because I would buy one. And they could do it at just about zero development investment cost, because those costs were already paid and absorbed.
I see it a way as boosting return on their development costs. And they could improve the reliability considerably if they paid any attention to the findings of the aftermarket community here (ignition, cooling, etc...). With that power to weight though, people would start ignoring the "penalties" of oil and economy, and probably a lower warranty as well.
The only reason I can come up with on why they don't is Europe's emissions control.
/sigh
Just musing mournfully.
This is exactly what i have been debating on doing... Full custom Miata coupe design with a complete rotary swap. would be a quick little thing. they share the same chassis, i don't think it would be too difficult of a swap.
07-08-2011, 08:13 PM
#73
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