HiFlite999

iTrader: (2)

From The Truth About Cars site:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...eaking-lasers/

You gotta love these guys:

"More importantly, it would cement the Wankel rotary’s status as the least-necessary, most overly-complex and thoroughly awesome engine ever created."

Jethro Tull

iTrader: (6)

Old news. Funny quote.

boffam

iTrader: (1)

Cue the "what about the oil consumption" nincompoops.

Actually, the rotary's complexity, or lack thereof, is fun to discuss. Any engine that came to its designer in a dream must be freakishly simple, no?

RXeligion

Actually, the discussion on that sight seems to be very well stated and educated, for the most part. I enjoyed it.

monchie

Good quote from the past.

Roidz

Interesting. I hadn't heard that yet.

Easy_E1

iTrader: (2)

This is what Autoblog is saying today.

AUTOBLOG

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

Lasers + BHR Ignition version 2.16x = EPICNESS.

77mjd

Trying to figure out why I used to think the Kabura was so good looking and now I think it's fugly as hell.

Mazda really has a chance to kick some *** with the new engines coming as well as the Shinari design elements...hopefully not toned down too much from the concept.

tjbourgoyne

I hope this is true. For me, killing the rotary would be a major violation against Mazda and I would regard them with extreme prejudice for quite a while. Whatever needs to be done do it. The technology could be implemented in all their cars while everyone else is trying to play catch up.

LifeAfterRx8

iTrader: (17)

I really hope Mazda makes another rotary, because I'll defiantly buy another.

But one blog says the rotary is dead, another says they're merging with Audi to enhance the rotary engine, and another is saying lasers? Which one is it? :O

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Who to believe is up to you, but the truth I believe is a mix of everything.

People are taking little bits of information and expanding whole theories on them, and usually everything added is wrong.

For example, if Mazda says "no RX-7" people take that to mean the rotary is dead, but ignore the possibility that it's just going to be called the RX-9.

Or Mazda suggests possibly electric assist of some sort, and people immediately think heavy *** battery parallel hybrid like the prius.

etc...

77mjd

I wish they'd hurry and do something. Judging by the new specs of the 2012 Civic SI
(201 horsepower and 170 lb-ft of torque), that car is probably now able to outrun an 8 if not damn close. Pathetic.

MattMPS

Mr. Seita Kanai is talking about the new ignition system of 16X

scooter_dmi

^ hahahahahaahh!!!

L337fpc

iTrader: (4)

Oh my good god

Rote8

ftfy

emajnthis

It sounds like the 16x is going to be the best of what a rotary can offer. Especially if they're able to produce better thermal efficiency through direct injection in conjunction with the laser ignition. The only thing left is to force induce to improve air density and power output, which, if done right, wouldn't hurt the fuel economy much, if at all with direct injection (while still having higher power output).
It did get me thinking though, with the housing only being hot in one spot and the potential for warping of the housing or damage to the apex seals (or both) due to it being thermally inefficient, would something like lining the housing of the motor with plasma help by producing less friction and maintaining tighter thresholds out of the gate (no break in) and under extreme temperature load? With the technology coming mainstream with the GT-R it doesn't seem that far fetched to line the motor with a material that is designed to maintain form in extreme temperatures while also gaining benefits of weight reduction (as opposed to say cast iron) which would also support the idea of them using aluminum housings. Flex in the housing due to the constant hot and cold would be less of a worry and they can focus more on appropriate cooling measures. I know there are aftermarket companies who make aluminum housings but i'm not sure what type of lining is used to ensure durability. It looks as though the fuel from direct injection should help cool the block considerably which is why they would go to aluminum housings in the first place, but IMO flex in the housing could easily be resolved with plasma lining. Unfortunately, you would be looking at a block that would have an ultimate shelf life due to the technology, but just a thought.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

The biggest arguement against heat treatments that keep the heat in the combustion chamber is side seal failure. The higher the internal temps, the higher the EGTs, and the faster the side seals fail.

At least in the Renesis.

This doesn't mean that they don't have a solution for that as well. I would hope that they do.

The 16x may not be the name of the engine in development, since there was a report that the 16x development was stopped last year (though I take that to mean that they moved on to a more advanced engine than the 16x). One thing that was confirmed through patent applications regarding the 16x was that the 16x uses narrower rotors, apparently to solve the current problem with the Renesis where the flame front doesn't actually fully reach the apex seal. The 'corners' aren't touched, and this increases emissions from unburnt a/f mix and reduces efficiency and torque. I'd expect that this only happens in some conditions and not all, but still, worth correcting. The 16x rotor width returns to the rotor width of the 12A.

Whatever the actual engine is called, I'd expect that this is also one of the methods they are using to increase efficiency and torque and reduce emissions.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

i believe i spoke of this about 1 year ago? Glad to see others are thinking the same
The 16x engine will also have ceramic apex seals, new design side seals and will be all aluminum.

Actually if the laser system can be made to work and prove realiable....guess what?

I see a 3 rotor design coming.

Why/how?-- well look at the 3 sparkplug version in the 787B. Look how that increased their gas milage. Now imagine even a better " spark" being availabe that is WITHIN the charge. Mindboogling.
The ignition system for the rotary has always been a major thing in holding this engine back.
Our current system cannot light off the charge in a way to take advantage of the engines design.
OD

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

OD,

After Eric's recent discussions regarding the side seals, I keep going back to thinking about ceramic side seals. When people talk about ceramic seals, it's always "apex seals". But, if the high EGTs are actually a bigger problem with side seals, ceramics sound like it would be better used there first.

I know the biggest issue with ceramic anything is machining it. The more complex the shape, the more it costs to machine. However, anything that is cast-able via a mold, simple shapes, shouldn't require machining (or at least not much). A ceramic side seal that is set "deeper" into the rotor (as in the seal is 1/8th or 1/4th of an inch 'wide', extending from the housing to a point deeper in the rotor, rather than the thin bits we have now) would:
A) shield the spring from heat better (no conduction)
B) inherently reduce the seal-to-housing wear (via ceramic's superior friction properties, reducing oil injection need and the heat associated with friction)
C) act as a heat shield to the parts inward towards the e-shaft
D) wouldn't deform (as Eric said that the heat wears out the spring, deforming the seal until it catches a side port and breaks)

And in theory, it should be something that could be entirely cast-able with only polishing or burr removal needed.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

great minds think alike

reddozen

iTrader: (1)

I agree that ceramic is a good option, but the biggest problem is consistency. You have to inspect every single piece. Not 1/10, but every single piece because of potential structural flaws inherent with working with the material.

Good idea, but may not be right for mass production without a lot of additional expense for QA and manufacturing.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

mazda wants to go without having to inject oil into the combustion chamber. Stay tuned on that issue.

RotaryMachineRx

iTrader: (1)

"I had one simple request. And that is to have engines with frickin’ laser beams attached to their heads ! Now evidently my cycloptic colleague informs me that that *can* be done."


Hahaha love the conversation on this article.... some uninformed responses though; such as the guy saying an ICE is more efficient then a Rotary. I don't think he understands that a rotary is an ICE haha