bigireland

Gotta say, the Mazda 6 is damn nice. Great looks. Chassis seems really well sorted. Good power. REALLY nice interior. My only complaint is that it's FWD(dealbreaker). Jump on the power and torque steer shows up like an ugly ex. When they drop the new one with the inline 6 and RWD, I think it's gonna be a great car.

Powerhauz

I6 and RWD? Is that going to be soon? Gotta say that sounds fun.

hornbm

iTrader: (1)

I had one as a loaner recently as well, and the seats are really comfortable. FWD only is a deal breaker. Looking forward to the next gen with rwd and an inline 6.

_JB_

Doing recall work here as well and I've got a FWD CX-5 Grand Touring? as a loaner. It doesn't have much torque steer but the wheelspin is a killer when punching it. The seats are like sitting on a wooden chair and have no lateral support. I am really liking the HUD and the interior is fairly quiet inside while on the highway.

mazdaverx7

iTrader: (6)

I've always liked the Mazda 6. Its always been a good car that holds up well and has a fair amount of power. I had one as a loaner back in 2008 when I had some warranty work done to an 05 RX-8 that I had. Even back then it was a good car. Its only gotten better.

SayNoToPistons

iTrader: (8)

It's a well rounded mid-size sedan. It is classy inside and out with interior materials that look and feel great. I had a rental Grand Touring for a couple weeks.

My wife and I compared a Mazda6 and Accord Sport head-to-head last year when she was looking for a new daily. We ended up with the Accord due to several reasons - It handles better with a significantly more settled rear and heavier steering (similar feel). Quicker than the equivalent 2.5 NA and 2.5 Turbo with several more MPG advantage. More rear seat room and larger trunk. Less dated technology and better thought out ergonomics.

The Mazda6 chassis is looong overdue for an update. I'm looking forward to the next generation.

UnknownJinX

I daily drive one right now as my friend has one and he is out of the country, so I am just keeping it running while running errands with it.

IMO comparing it to the RX-8 is apples to oranges. The FWD wheelspin issue is amplified when you have an RX-8 - the 2.5T is capable of almost double the peak torque of Renesis at a much lower RPM(310 ft-lb @ 2000 RPM vs. 159 ft-lb @ 5500 RPM). Even the NA 2.5 engine is torquier than RX-8. The gear ratios in the 6 are also pretty sporty. I used to complain about that a lot with FWD cars until I got into a C7 and Camaro SS. At one point, even FR RWD gets bottlenecked from traction. The same thing happens - you can't mash the gas pedal like you can with an RX-8. Throttle control becomes that much more important.

Oh and also, stock tires are pretty garbage which doesn't help. My friend actually swapped out the stock tires for some Michelin all-season tires and he felt some improvement over the stock tires.

One thing I will say, it's odd that they don't provide the AWD 6 here in North America, especially considering now 3 has AWD here. Could help a bit with the traction issue.

Don't have sports car expectations and it's a fine family car.

The MPG advantage is a bit debatable. You know how it is with most turbocharged engines. Eco/boost, not both. Drive it easy and you get the EPA gas mileage; drive it hard, and it can consume more than the NA counterpart due to fuel enrichment that's needed to prevent knock. Mazda does at least make an attempt to get around the Eco/boost deal with the EGR cooling on the 2.5T(doesn't help EPA rating but helps with real-life gas mileage), which, as a guy that likes to rev the cars up, I can respect. You don't see a lot of other manufacturers do that.

I can see Honda doing better for certain things for sure, particularly the interior room.

I can agree that some of the things are aging, though. The 6AT is a pretty old design at this point. I know the whole "wider engine efficiency band" deal, but when even Toyota has an 8AT now, you know you are behind the game. The Mazda infotainment is also meh, I actually prefer the Chevrolet Infotainment 3 system in my Camaro.

Also, I have heard that Mazda6 will be discontinued from some sources. They might call the I6 RWD successor a different name to differentiate it from Mazda6, which is still viewed as a more "economy" car.

SayNoToPistons

iTrader: (8)

Regarding the NA vs FI fuel consumption - I approached both cars with the same thought as well, hence the reason I was surprisingly disappointed with the 2.5L NA Mazda6. I explored various driving conditions (heavy and light footed) and the MPG in the Mazda6 was no where near the numbers I expected it to accomplish. Being as nick picky as I am, I was able to rent both the 1.5T w/ CVT and 2.0T w/10AT before purchasing, and both performed significantly better than the 2.5L in similar conditions. The 1.5T with the CVT also had more usable torque and I was able to grandma high MPG up to 45+ VS the 2.5L barely scratching over 30 MPG. Heavy footed around a traffic jammed city fighting Ubers/Lyfts, I manage around 25 MPG with the 1.5T vs around 20 MPG with the 2.5L. The 2.0T wasn't too far off from the 1.5T with 3-4mpg less on average. Unfortunately I can't comment on the 2.5T Mazda6.

The Mazda6 is a whole generation behind its competition. Aerodynamics and drivetrains have come a long way since the foundations of what the Mazda6 is built on (dating back a decade). We really wanted to justify the purchase of a Mazda6 last year, but it can no longer compete . That said, combined with the 20k+ miles we put on our daily drivers a year, it was a no brainer.

It is hard for Mazda to compete against the Hondas, Toyotas, and Hyundais in head-to-head comparisons. Their shot at going "upmarket" is a gamble that I can appreciate and will to pay the money for. The Mazda3/CX-30 for instance is a great attempt with its best in class interior. I certainly look forward to their next generation CX-5 and CX-9, because Mazda will need to get those cash cows absolutely perfect to survive.

UnknownJinX

Good to see some real-life perspective. I think part of it might be that the 6AT is showing its age. Against the miriad of CVT and 8+AT nowadays, yeah, Mazda needs to step up their game now.

People do praise the shift logic of the Mazda 6AT. I find it fine but I haven't been driving automatic transmissions all that much myself so I don't know anything to effectively compare it against. It might just be a case of good software with old and limited hardware.

Another somewhat minor complaint for me: no remote start on the Mazda. You have to pay a lot for installation and then a yearly subscription fee. Competitors are offering them for free, by comparison.

I like the 2.5T I drive now but I haven't driven an Accord 2.0T for comparison. Obviously it does better on gas than RX-8 and now my Camaro SS but that's not saying much, LOL. Agreed it's a hard game for Mazda to tackle the industry giants, and they need alternatives to survive.

SayNoToPistons

iTrader: (8)

Agreed on the aged 6AT. The first revisions of the 6AT back in 2012-2014 were a bit jerky and slow to shift, but they fixed that. I am still a fan of Mazda's programming for the 6AT with its relatively quick shifts and adaptive downshifts even in auto, but it's definitely 2-3 gears short. Mazda tries its best to shift economically early under normal circumstances, but its absolute pain in the city with a NA 4cyl.

I also give Mazda credit for shoving the 2.5T into almost every car in their line up. Our family outgrew smaller cars like the Mazda3 and CX-30, but I am curious how they drive with the 2.5T. I bet they're monsters for daily driving.

What year is your Camaro SS?

UnknownJinX

Yeah, it's mainly just the number of gears that are the issue nowadays. 6 is what I am comfortable with in a manual trans, but with an automatic, you can do better now.

Mazda is basically taking a page out of Dodge's trend of shoving the Hellcat engine into everything, LOL.

My Camaro SS 1LE is a 19. You know, the one everyone calls ugly. Gas mileage is a bit worse than the RX-8 in the city but markedly better on the highway thanks to the stupidly tall 6th gear. I can cruise at 75 MPH at 1800 RPM. Given the power it makes, I think it's fine. Taking it onto a track is a blast, and I am planning to do more this year.

Shaozhou Zhang

For the 6AT thing, most of the Chinese car reviewers have highly praised how fast it can shift and understand the driver’s intention despite the lack of gears. I would like to try that trans if I have a chance.
For MPG, or fuel economy, I believe that one should carefully select the engine based on the most common driving condition that the driver will encounter, by referring to the BSFC to determine the high efficiency area of an engine to see if their driving condition will fall into the high efficiency zone.
A Puris engine screaming at redline-ish rpm on the highway is not as efficient as a larger engine doing the same thing with a lower rpm or much lower rpm.

hornbm

iTrader: (1)

There is a pretty reasonable explanation as to why that hasn't happened. If you look at other markets where you can get AWD, its only available with the diesel engine. There is no AWD gasoline variant sold in any market.

I'm sure updates at this point are minimal like infotainment because the model is about to be replaced.

UnknownJinX

I read that as well, and I rarely have to use paddle shifters, which is a pretty good thing.

Debatably, I would say the lack of gears might be why it can shift well. I have heard complaints about Honda's 10-speed can shift too often from time to time. That said, Ford-GM's 10-speed auto is highly praised, so it could be done well.

I'd be curious to see what the next gen RWD transmission will be like. They could just source it from ZF(ZF 8AT is highly praised), but knowing Mazda, I don't think that's gonna happen.

BSFC data for newer engines can be tricky to find. Many of those are proprietary.

Right, and we all know how well CX-5 diesel went in North America.

Mid-size Sedans also aren't selling well with SUVs taking over, which also adds a reason for Mazda to not invest as much in the current Mazda6.

Bladecutter

Well, if Mazda could actually keep to a schedule, the Mazda 6 with the diesel engine would have come to the American Market in late 2014, and they would have been able to sell cars all while VW was unraveling across the globe. They could have even had a marketing campaign along the lines of "Clean Diesel without the lies" or something to that affect in order to pick up the VW owners who had to return their cars.

Then the CX-5 with the diesel could have come out in 2015 or 2016, like originally intended.

But, nope, Mazda sucks at marketing and timing market demand in the US.

BC.

UnknownJinX

Even then, I highly doubt it will succeed.

I have said it before and I will say it again: give me a reason, other than the towing capacity, of why I should buy a CX-5 diesel over a RAV4 hybrid. The latter is better on fuel, reliable, has good low-end torque, and is faster(the CX-5 diesel is slower than the 2.5 gas version).

Remember the problem with CX-5 diesel was mostly with the fact that it was too expensive and it wasn't that much better on fuel compared to the gas version. All the marketing in the world won't fix it. Why do people buy a diesel? Because it's good on fuel, but when you can't achieve that, it kills the reason to buy a diesel.

I think the reason Mazda postponed it is because they couldn't figure out how VW was getting good fuel efficiency and power while meeting emission standards. This was before they knew VW was cheating. After that, Mazda had to sacrifice performance and fuel efficiency to meet emissions, just like VW. That's why the Mazda diesel engine is so lame.

So yeah, just make a hybrid and kill the diesel. The writing is on the wall for diesel for personal passenger cars.