dznutzuk

They were not identical, if you want take apart both turbos and measure the major and minor on both sides and both turbos. Not the same! A few mm difference makes all the difference.

Edgar

Let me put it to you this way, and please do not feel any disrespect it’s not what I am all about. When you walk into a room flip the switch or you get online and purchase a airline ticket to fly you and your loves ones to another city, another country or in this age and time almost to another world, knowing the fact that all these things happen and work and not only works well but also works safely, do you fully understand how it all works? The answer to that is no and yet you still trust your best judgment and continue to use them. Every so often your get a bit curious and ask the so call random question about all these things to expand your knowledge base.
You asked me a very good question and you are entitle to an answer:
The rotary engine in aviation is nothing new, unlike Wankle in the automotive field or piston base engines there has never be a major failure with this engine. Of the thousands that fly today not only here in the US but worldwide there has only 9 reported accidents in a aircraft flying a rotary engine of all these reported accident not one was due the engine itself, now that tells me a lot about how well and robust and it performs well in aviation. That is one record that I hope never changes and is my main reason for choosing this engine from the get go. I admit I am not so call expert on the engine like many of you on this forum are and I made ask some random questions from time to about this power plant. I am grateful for those of you who are not only willing to and not only encourage this new project but also offer advise share their vast knowledge. To these I thank you, to those others well you are entitle to your own opinion.

Rotaman

Hi Edgar

Do you have any photos of the plane you are using/going to use your 20b in?
My Father built a plane that uses a RX8 engine to power it. Unfortunately he died before he ever managed to get to fly it. The plane is now being completed by another company and hopefully will be ready to fly by the end of this year.
The plane is called a Cobra Arrow and is a kit out of Australia.
We also have a factory 20b Cosmo in the family, along with a few other Rotary vehicles.
Thanks

Rotaman

Edgar

I don't have any drawing per say other than the cad drawings I have in my office, but it will be a Canard almost looks very much like a Velocity shape is more smoother and wing span is a bit larger due to the fact that the landing gear is mounted away from the arch of the prop which will allow it to make landings in grassy airports if needed, I never liked the idea of the main gears in direct line of the prop the chances of prop strike from the wheels kicking something more less likely to happen is wheels are away. And another great feature is that it will be pressurized all the way to 24,000 feet, something that even Velocity never attempted their thinking that it can’t be done due to the way the nose gear is set up I am including a builder’s website that is flying a 20B NA that is getting a 10HPG fuel burn at about 200mph that translate to about 20MPG with a standard 73gallons and no wind translate to a range of 1460 give or take much better than most aircraft out there, check out the site thanks for the interest

http://members.***.net/alg3/airplane.htm

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

If your going to be able to fly at such a high altitude, wouldn't the engine work more efficiently if it was turboed?

bse50

That's why the first turbos were adopted...

Edgar

OH Yes it will be Turbo charged to normalized the engine, another reason it’s needed too because unlike jets which have special by-pass valves to channel some of the air to pressure the main cabin, in the case of piston or normal aircraft they used a small % of air from the turbo to pressurized the passenger cabin currently there is only one kit builder that does this that is a Lancair in the north west corner of the US, I am sure there are many more since the process is rather simple stupid one intake to control the intake air at about 6PSI which translate to about 8000 feet give or take, and another valve to release excess pressure almost works like a pop-off valve in a turbo except has meter set in feet as oppose to pounds then there’s a pressure set at about 6 pounds or so depending in interior pressure you set safety switch if but chance pressure starts to equalized with outside altitude less than 10,000 ft. you set it and it gives you an alarm if you are losing cabin pressure. If you sorta thing about it, you are the engine you have the waste gate to protect from over boosting and the pop off valve to control the max boost. This is the way it’s always been done in aviation.

Edgar

Hi I have installed a few Cad drawings enjoy
Transfer them this morning give an idea how it will be set up with the 20B

pistonhater

Wrong, LOL

"In 1990, Mazda released the Eunos (JC) Cosmo in Japan and Australia. This highly sophisticated vehicle was powered by a turbocharged version of the 13G three-rotor engine, renamed the 20B engine for public sales." (Street Rotary, by Mark Warner p.11)

As you can see, this particular author seems to suggest the name change from 13G to 20B came as result of the addition of turbochargers. He doesn't mention the side intake as a reason for the name change

However, I assume both changes happened at the same time; meaning, the addition of turbocharges and side intake. I can't imagine Mazda putting a three-rotor turbo charged engine with peripheral intake on the Eunos JC car. That would have been more of a race car!!!

Therefore, we are all talking about the same!!!

vy_MR2

iTrader: (2)

Correct me if I am wrong. Back when the Eunos Cosmo and Skyline were introduced to the world, I am sure I read that these cars both had outputs of 276hp due to a "Gentlemen's agreement" amongst Japanese automakers suggesting this was their actual power. In reality, this was never the case but on paper...

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

HMM, correct me if I'm wrong but last I know, the 2 turbos in the original FD Seq. setup. it's same size but with different blades.

then later at the 99 spec(spirit-R, Brahus-R), which is not sold in the US, has an even more efficient updated turbo and you can go up to 450 hp with it without much problems. (assume you did all other cooling and with updated bumper)

Edgar

Hi Everyone,
I wish to thank you all for the information as I can best gather the HP rating is about 280 plus or minus a few horses. Since I am planning on turbo charging to normalize breathing of the engine at a conservative power rating of about 350 HP at altitude from sea level to 24,000 alt. I am not too concern with turbo lag on take-off due to the fact that before you take off on runoff take off you hold your engine at your takeoff power setting for about 3 or 5 seconds will give the turbo a chance to spool up to speed, it’s not like when you are drag racing and need instant power. So 350 HP is not asking too much from this engine at full 100% power setting which is rarely used in any engine. Most of the time you are saving fuel to extend your range, a friend of my is currently flying a 20B and gets 9GPH which is about 20 miles to a gallon on the ground @ 190 knots which is about 218 mph running at 75% power setting at 9000 ft.
I wish to address the rudeness that I notice from many on this site, my understanding is that sure your point of view must be express so let’s all of us be a little more civil to each other this a great site and it’s very useful place to exchange and to get ideas on our number one passion the love for the Wankle engine. Nothing wrong in strongly expressing your view but let’s all do it in a civil manner. Just my view and you may not agree with it, if so let’s agree to disagree if you don’t agree

bse50

I don't know much about airplanes so i can't relate to propeller\impeller speeds etc.
350hp is not a "stressing" number for a 20b and i guess that the next step will be picking up the right turbo, capable to provide both the desired power at altitude and cabin pressurization.
At what engine rpm do you need 350hp, then?

Edgar

I am doing the research on a current models being used in the Lancair IV-P. P is for pressurized cabin at a cabin pressure of 5 to 6 PSI and able to reach speeds of 345 in level flight at 18,000 ft Continental TSIO-550 engine a 6 cylinder twin turbocharged engine, it uses the turbo both for normalized flight as well as cabin pressure and puts out 350HP at all phases of flight. The 3 drawbacks to the engine is weight 428lb., it’s a piston, and uses anywhere from 2 to 2.5 the amount of fuel about 22 gallons per hour. I am looking at about 16 gph max fuel burn at close to full power @ about 6300 rpm. With 2.835:1 reduction 6 pinion planetary gears for prop reduction. 20B in the same trim comes in close to about 328lbs + or minus and will less likely to come to a complete stop while in flight, I may loose power but complete failure is not likely. I do have some numbers for the turbo but they are for a 13B is that currently flying I just need the numbers for a 20B. I will post them maybe someone out there can make some sense out of them. T04E-50 with P trim with an aspect ratio of 1.15 these are the numbers listed by Turbonetics for a 13B