Battle of the 8's: RX-8 vs. Evo VIII
#26
Originally posted by rabinabo
Now that I've said all that, I still prefer the 8. I think it's well-designed inside and out. Most of the design was decided by how to take maximal advantage of the rotary. The evo has been around for how long, and how many problems are evo 8 owners having now? Not that the 8 is without it's problems, but they seem to be more rare, plus at least mazda is doing it's best to honor the warranties (we'll see if that lasts). That's just in the first year, it will only get better. Mitsubishi seems to be antagonizing lots of evo owners because of their attitude over things like the problems with the clutch (among other things). Comparing polls in both this forum and an evo forum (evolutionm), it seems rx-8 owners are much happier than evo owners.
In the end, the 8 has the traditional sports car looks with ability to carry 4 people and with a sizeable trunk. In addition, it has superior design (imo), plus the distinctiveness (and beauty) of the rotary engine that makes the design of the car even possible. Those that want more power can wait for the aftermarket to catch up, and it will.
I'm not absolutely certain here, but mazda is hoping to sell many more 8's this year than evo's numbers in the first year, right? What are the numbers exactly? Just the sheer number of 8's that will be sold, plus the clamor for more power, practically guarantees a huge aftermarket for the 8.
I think the real comparison will be evo vs heavily modded 8, once the parts are available. To quote the inimitable Bruce Campbell, "Well, who's laughin' now?"
Now that I've said all that, I still prefer the 8. I think it's well-designed inside and out. Most of the design was decided by how to take maximal advantage of the rotary. The evo has been around for how long, and how many problems are evo 8 owners having now? Not that the 8 is without it's problems, but they seem to be more rare, plus at least mazda is doing it's best to honor the warranties (we'll see if that lasts). That's just in the first year, it will only get better. Mitsubishi seems to be antagonizing lots of evo owners because of their attitude over things like the problems with the clutch (among other things). Comparing polls in both this forum and an evo forum (evolutionm), it seems rx-8 owners are much happier than evo owners.
In the end, the 8 has the traditional sports car looks with ability to carry 4 people and with a sizeable trunk. In addition, it has superior design (imo), plus the distinctiveness (and beauty) of the rotary engine that makes the design of the car even possible. Those that want more power can wait for the aftermarket to catch up, and it will.
I'm not absolutely certain here, but mazda is hoping to sell many more 8's this year than evo's numbers in the first year, right? What are the numbers exactly? Just the sheer number of 8's that will be sold, plus the clamor for more power, practically guarantees a huge aftermarket for the 8.
I think the real comparison will be evo vs heavily modded 8, once the parts are available. To quote the inimitable Bruce Campbell, "Well, who's laughin' now?"
Now the RX8 - has had a TON of first year issues. It makes less power and gets worse fuel economy from what was advertized. There are the air conditioning and excessive cabin heat problems. There are also the flooding issues and there have been a few complete engine failures. When I first started lurking on this board, there were questions as to whether to wait a year or two to let Mazda workout the kinks, that would have been a good idea in retrospect.
As to the design of the car, you are correct rabinado. As it became more apparent that Mazda did not design this to be a top-notch sports car (in performance), my interest waned and the EVO captured it.
Last edited by revhappy; 12-08-2003 at 10:32 AM.
#27
Originally posted by rebelzx
It seems that everytime one tries to talk about the performance of the RX-8, everyone falls back on the same excuses. No one on this board (the COMPETITION/RACING board, btw) seems to want to discuss Competition/Racing. Try to keep the posts on topic please. I don't want to hear anymore excuses about well, Mazda designed the car this way, bla, bla, bla.
It seems that everytime one tries to talk about the performance of the RX-8, everyone falls back on the same excuses. No one on this board (the COMPETITION/RACING board, btw) seems to want to discuss Competition/Racing. Try to keep the posts on topic please. I don't want to hear anymore excuses about well, Mazda designed the car this way, bla, bla, bla.
Here is a Little COMPETITION/RACING for you.
At the December Houston SCCA AutoX held Dec 6 2003.
221 drivers competed, out of those :
4 - RX8 best time 37.060
2- EVO best time 39.465
5 - STi best time 38.545
6 - WRX best time 38.846
3 of the 4 RX8s that competed bested ALL the EVOs and Sti/WRXs
Out of the combined classes (including prepared and modifierd) and 221 drivers the Stock RX8 had 2 entries in the top 10 times, 4th and 7th.
In the Stock classes, RX8 took 2nd, 3rd, and 4th best overall times in all stock classes bested only by a national ranked Porsche Boxter. The EVO was about 25th with a 39.465 time
For the last three months the same results have been posted, and the turbo-econo-box crowd keep ignoring the facts.
RX8 kicks BUTT on the course and Track
Last edited by renotse; 12-08-2003 at 12:08 PM.
#28
Originally posted by renotse
What Excuses? rebelzx
Here is a Little COMPETITION/RACING for you.
At the December Houston SCCA AutoX held Dec 6 2003.
221 drivers competed, out of those :
4 - RX8 best time 37.060
2- EVO best time 39.465
5 - STi best time 38.545
6 - WRX best time 38.846
3 of the 4 RX8s that competed bested ALL the EVOs and Sti/WRXs
Out of the combined classes (including prepared and modifierd) and 221 drivers the Stock RX8 had 2 entries in the top 10 times, 4th and 7th.
In the Stock classes, RX8 took 2nd, 3rd best overall times in all stock classes bested only by a national ranked Porsche Boxter.
For the last three months the same results have been posted, and the turbo-econo-box crowd keep ignoring the facts.
RX8 kicks BUTT on the course and Track
What Excuses? rebelzx
Here is a Little COMPETITION/RACING for you.
At the December Houston SCCA AutoX held Dec 6 2003.
221 drivers competed, out of those :
4 - RX8 best time 37.060
2- EVO best time 39.465
5 - STi best time 38.545
6 - WRX best time 38.846
3 of the 4 RX8s that competed bested ALL the EVOs and Sti/WRXs
Out of the combined classes (including prepared and modifierd) and 221 drivers the Stock RX8 had 2 entries in the top 10 times, 4th and 7th.
In the Stock classes, RX8 took 2nd, 3rd best overall times in all stock classes bested only by a national ranked Porsche Boxter.
For the last three months the same results have been posted, and the turbo-econo-box crowd keep ignoring the facts.
RX8 kicks BUTT on the course and Track
#30
Originally posted by revhappy
I didn't see any at the Solo II Nationals where the EVO's bested all the S2Ks. I guess we'll have to wait for next year's to see the RX8's. However, I will admit I have been impressed by the RX8's performance at the local autox events so far.
I didn't see any at the Solo II Nationals where the EVO's bested all the S2Ks. I guess we'll have to wait for next year's to see the RX8's. However, I will admit I have been impressed by the RX8's performance at the local autox events so far.
I was not able to attend the Nationals so I can not comment from personal experience on them. I presume from your bold statements that you were in attendance so I can l not refute your statements.
But for those of us who are less fortunate please elaborate on this Point. "the EVO's bested all the S2Ks"
I have searched the web and all I can find on the result at the below link. From that page I surmised the following:
a) Only 1 EVO was ranked in top 10 of AStock and it placed 9th with a score of 116.483, No S2000 was ranked in AStock
b) 7 - S2000s ranked in top 10 of BStock 1,2,3,5,7,8,9 with scores ranging from 113.291 to 114.901, all of which are better than the 116.483 EVO score.
c)David Hedderick placed 11th in BStock with a score of 115.051, which is better than the best EVO. David is the benchmark that Tim is using to gage his performance (and darn close now). I assume if Tim's progress continues as it has there will be no Stock EVO anywhere that can touch him.
SCCA Finals page
revhappy, Please correct me if I am wrong.
#31
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I made it to 3 races this year as I had never auto-x before. So I am a novice at this sorta thing. I do have some track experience from about 10 years ago, but this was with much slower cars :D (19 and in Mexico? yeah, I couldnt race with the big boys).
However I did manage to palce middle of the pack in BS for all 3 races, running 100% stock. My very first race I managed the worst time of the track, and then knocked 16 seconds off it to place 7th out of 13.
So yeah, it's fun for me!
However I did manage to palce middle of the pack in BS for all 3 races, running 100% stock. My very first race I managed the worst time of the track, and then knocked 16 seconds off it to place 7th out of 13.
So yeah, it's fun for me!
#32
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renotse posted:
"revhappy,
I was not able to attend the Nationals so I can not comment from personal experience on them. I presume from your bold statements that you were in attendance so I can l not refute your statements.
But for those of us who are less fortunate please elaborate on this Point. "the EVO's bested all the S2Ks"
I have searched the web and all I can find on the result at the below link. From that page I surmised the following:
a) Only 1 EVO was ranked in top 10 of AStock and it placed 9th with a score of 116.483, No S2000 was ranked in AStock
b) 7 - S2000s ranked in top 10 of BStock 1,2,3,5,7,8,9 with scores ranging from 113.291 to 114.901, all of which are better than the 116.483 EVO score.
c)David Hedderick placed 11th in BStock with a score of 115.051, which is better than the best EVO. David is the benchmark that Tim is using to gage his performance (and darn close now). I assume if Tim's progress continues as it has there will be no Stock EVO anywhere that can touch him.
SCCA Finals page
revhappy, Please correct me if I am wrong."
This is exactly what happens when you call their bluff, they go and hide and act like they did not see your post. Exact same thing happened a month ago. Renotse, I wish you would quit clouding this discussion with facts.
Plus, add to this that 350Z times are usually the worst of the whole group (when they run).
Good post renotse!!! Save this one, and when they do come back, repost it, we can use it like garlic on a vampire.
"revhappy,
I was not able to attend the Nationals so I can not comment from personal experience on them. I presume from your bold statements that you were in attendance so I can l not refute your statements.
But for those of us who are less fortunate please elaborate on this Point. "the EVO's bested all the S2Ks"
I have searched the web and all I can find on the result at the below link. From that page I surmised the following:
a) Only 1 EVO was ranked in top 10 of AStock and it placed 9th with a score of 116.483, No S2000 was ranked in AStock
b) 7 - S2000s ranked in top 10 of BStock 1,2,3,5,7,8,9 with scores ranging from 113.291 to 114.901, all of which are better than the 116.483 EVO score.
c)David Hedderick placed 11th in BStock with a score of 115.051, which is better than the best EVO. David is the benchmark that Tim is using to gage his performance (and darn close now). I assume if Tim's progress continues as it has there will be no Stock EVO anywhere that can touch him.
SCCA Finals page
revhappy, Please correct me if I am wrong."
This is exactly what happens when you call their bluff, they go and hide and act like they did not see your post. Exact same thing happened a month ago. Renotse, I wish you would quit clouding this discussion with facts.
Plus, add to this that 350Z times are usually the worst of the whole group (when they run).
Good post renotse!!! Save this one, and when they do come back, repost it, we can use it like garlic on a vampire.
#33
Originally posted by Chuck Clifford
This is exactly what happens when you call their bluff, they go and hide and act like they did not see your post. Exact same thing happened a month ago. Renotse, I wish you would quit clouding this discussion with facts.
Plus, add to this that 350Z times are usually the worst of the whole group (when they run).
Good post renotse!!! Save this one, and when they do come back, repost it, we can use it like garlic on a vampire.
This is exactly what happens when you call their bluff, they go and hide and act like they did not see your post. Exact same thing happened a month ago. Renotse, I wish you would quit clouding this discussion with facts.
Plus, add to this that 350Z times are usually the worst of the whole group (when they run).
Good post renotse!!! Save this one, and when they do come back, repost it, we can use it like garlic on a vampire.
Last edited by renotse; 12-08-2003 at 12:57 PM.
#34
Originally posted by renotse
revhappy,
I was not able to attend the Nationals so I can not comment from personal experience on them. I presume from your bold statements that you were in attendance so I can l not refute your statements.
But for those of us who are less fortunate please elaborate on this Point. "the EVO's bested all the S2Ks"
I have searched the web and all I can find on the result at the below link. From that page I surmised the following:
a) Only 1 EVO was ranked in top 10 of AStock and it placed 9th with a score of 116.483, No S2000 was ranked in AStock
b) 7 - S2000s ranked in top 10 of BStock 1,2,3,5,7,8,9 with scores ranging from 113.291 to 114.901, all of which are better than the 116.483 EVO score.
c)David Hedderick placed 11th in BStock with a score of 115.051, which is better than the best EVO. David is the benchmark that Tim is using to gage his performance (and darn close now). I assume if Tim's progress continues as it has there will be no Stock EVO anywhere that can touch him.
SCCA Finals page
revhappy, Please correct me if I am wrong.
revhappy,
I was not able to attend the Nationals so I can not comment from personal experience on them. I presume from your bold statements that you were in attendance so I can l not refute your statements.
But for those of us who are less fortunate please elaborate on this Point. "the EVO's bested all the S2Ks"
I have searched the web and all I can find on the result at the below link. From that page I surmised the following:
a) Only 1 EVO was ranked in top 10 of AStock and it placed 9th with a score of 116.483, No S2000 was ranked in AStock
b) 7 - S2000s ranked in top 10 of BStock 1,2,3,5,7,8,9 with scores ranging from 113.291 to 114.901, all of which are better than the 116.483 EVO score.
c)David Hedderick placed 11th in BStock with a score of 115.051, which is better than the best EVO. David is the benchmark that Tim is using to gage his performance (and darn close now). I assume if Tim's progress continues as it has there will be no Stock EVO anywhere that can touch him.
SCCA Finals page
revhappy, Please correct me if I am wrong.
Just curious, have you guys done anything to alter your stock setup during your events?
#35
Originally posted by Chuck Clifford
renotse posted:
"revhappy,
I was not able to attend the Nationals so I can not comment from personal experience on them. I presume from your bold statements that you were in attendance so I can l not refute your statements.
But for those of us who are less fortunate please elaborate on this Point. "the EVO's bested all the S2Ks"
I have searched the web and all I can find on the result at the below link. From that page I surmised the following:
a) Only 1 EVO was ranked in top 10 of AStock and it placed 9th with a score of 116.483, No S2000 was ranked in AStock
b) 7 - S2000s ranked in top 10 of BStock 1,2,3,5,7,8,9 with scores ranging from 113.291 to 114.901, all of which are better than the 116.483 EVO score.
c)David Hedderick placed 11th in BStock with a score of 115.051, which is better than the best EVO. David is the benchmark that Tim is using to gage his performance (and darn close now). I assume if Tim's progress continues as it has there will be no Stock EVO anywhere that can touch him.
SCCA Finals page
revhappy, Please correct me if I am wrong."
This is exactly what happens when you call their bluff, they go and hide and act like they did not see your post. Exact same thing happened a month ago. Renotse, I wish you would quit clouding this discussion with facts.
Plus, add to this that 350Z times are usually the worst of the whole group (when they run).
Good post renotse!!! Save this one, and when they do come back, repost it, we can use it like garlic on a vampire.
renotse posted:
"revhappy,
I was not able to attend the Nationals so I can not comment from personal experience on them. I presume from your bold statements that you were in attendance so I can l not refute your statements.
But for those of us who are less fortunate please elaborate on this Point. "the EVO's bested all the S2Ks"
I have searched the web and all I can find on the result at the below link. From that page I surmised the following:
a) Only 1 EVO was ranked in top 10 of AStock and it placed 9th with a score of 116.483, No S2000 was ranked in AStock
b) 7 - S2000s ranked in top 10 of BStock 1,2,3,5,7,8,9 with scores ranging from 113.291 to 114.901, all of which are better than the 116.483 EVO score.
c)David Hedderick placed 11th in BStock with a score of 115.051, which is better than the best EVO. David is the benchmark that Tim is using to gage his performance (and darn close now). I assume if Tim's progress continues as it has there will be no Stock EVO anywhere that can touch him.
SCCA Finals page
revhappy, Please correct me if I am wrong."
This is exactly what happens when you call their bluff, they go and hide and act like they did not see your post. Exact same thing happened a month ago. Renotse, I wish you would quit clouding this discussion with facts.
Plus, add to this that 350Z times are usually the worst of the whole group (when they run).
Good post renotse!!! Save this one, and when they do come back, repost it, we can use it like garlic on a vampire.
#36
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Originally posted by revhappy
....its tough to geta good, definitive comparison of the RX8 and the EVO due to the limited sample of direct comparisons and the huge variable of driver skill in autox.
....its tough to geta good, definitive comparison of the RX8 and the EVO due to the limited sample of direct comparisons and the huge variable of driver skill in autox.
#37
Originally posted by revhappy
I spend too much time on here and evolutionm.net so I think I can compare the two cars problems. Essentially, the EVO's issues are the clutch and the paint. Now, the overwhelming majority of problems with the clutch on the EVO are due to people who drag race a lot. An AWD car puts a lot of stress on the drivetrain and often the clutch is purposely designed to be the weakest link. This is due to the fact that the clutch is the cheapest and easiest component of the drivetrain to fix. Still, a steel clutch line or an upgraded clutch have been used by many who want to get rid of this problem (though at the risk of causing more expensive repairs). As for the paint, well it chips easily and that is a legitimate flaw.
I spend too much time on here and evolutionm.net so I think I can compare the two cars problems. Essentially, the EVO's issues are the clutch and the paint. Now, the overwhelming majority of problems with the clutch on the EVO are due to people who drag race a lot. An AWD car puts a lot of stress on the drivetrain and often the clutch is purposely designed to be the weakest link. This is due to the fact that the clutch is the cheapest and easiest component of the drivetrain to fix. Still, a steel clutch line or an upgraded clutch have been used by many who want to get rid of this problem (though at the risk of causing more expensive repairs). As for the paint, well it chips easily and that is a legitimate flaw.
Originally posted by revhappy
Now the RX8 - has had a TON of first year issues. It makes less power and gets worse fuel economy from what was advertized. There are the air conditioning and excessive cabin heat problems. There are also the flooding issues and there have been a few complete engine failures. When I first started lurking on this board, there were questions as to whether to wait a year or two to let Mazda workout the kinks, that would have been a good idea in retrospect.
As to the design of the car, you are correct rabinado. As it became more apparent that Mazda did not design this to be a top-notch sports car (in performance), my interest waned and the EVO captured it.
Now the RX8 - has had a TON of first year issues. It makes less power and gets worse fuel economy from what was advertized. There are the air conditioning and excessive cabin heat problems. There are also the flooding issues and there have been a few complete engine failures. When I first started lurking on this board, there were questions as to whether to wait a year or two to let Mazda workout the kinks, that would have been a good idea in retrospect.
As to the design of the car, you are correct rabinado. As it became more apparent that Mazda did not design this to be a top-notch sports car (in performance), my interest waned and the EVO captured it.
I think the mileage problems are exaggerated, especially since non-8 owners here tend to quote the absolute worst mileage numbers reported for the 8. We'll see whether the power/mileage can be fixed by the aftermarket, and that may affect my decision to buy an 8 vs. evo. The a/c problems are being dealt with by Mazda it seems, and the cabin heat doesn't seem to be an issue for the vast majority.
Flooding can be avoided, and the engines that have failed have been completely replaced by Mazda, so they're definitely backing up the 8. Plus, it seems worse than it probably is because they're trying to find out what the problem is. Most likely the engine could have been repaired, but Mazda just replaces the whole engine so they can analyze it completely. Again this is a new engine, and unlike the evo engine hasn't been in production for very long.
Right now, the performance of the 8 is still phenomenal for me (coming from a ford escort), and I'm aware that after a while I'd get used to it and want more power. That's when I'd do some serious modding and try to give the evos a run for their money,
#38
Originally posted by rabinabo
Yeah, I used to spend too much time at evolutionm.net also. Your argument about the clutch being designed as the weakest link makes sense. There do seem to be people that don't abuse the clutch and still have to replace them after a few 1000 miles. There are also those brake issues (which seem to be fixable by upgrading the pads). I just think of it as sign of things to come. We'll see what long-term issues come up and how Mitsu deals with them (if they do).
Yeah, I used to spend too much time at evolutionm.net also. Your argument about the clutch being designed as the weakest link makes sense. There do seem to be people that don't abuse the clutch and still have to replace them after a few 1000 miles. There are also those brake issues (which seem to be fixable by upgrading the pads). I just think of it as sign of things to come. We'll see what long-term issues come up and how Mitsu deals with them (if they do).
Originally posted by rabinabo
Right now, the performance of the 8 is still phenomenal for me (coming from a ford escort), and I'm aware that after a while I'd get used to it and want more power. That's when I'd do some serious modding and try to give the evos a run for their money,
Right now, the performance of the 8 is still phenomenal for me (coming from a ford escort), and I'm aware that after a while I'd get used to it and want more power. That's when I'd do some serious modding and try to give the evos a run for their money,
#40
Hey, that's right, I did notice that you have a fort escort. I still have my 98 zx2, and I'm still fairly happy with it. Heck, I still outaccelerate most cars around here (La Jolla) at lights, but that's because everybody drives like an old lady. I occasionally go to auto-x, but I plan on becoming more of a regular with my next car.
I'm really looking forward to that big improvement in performance. Possible choices are an rx-8, evo, sti, or g35. If I consider two-seaters (unlikely), I would also think about a miata, s2000, and 350z.
The g35 seems to have lots of fans, but I'm sorry, that's not a skyline replacement. The awd model is a sedan AND it only comes with an automatic transmission! Sorry, try again.
For me (and most people I think), the evo and sti are appealing purely because of their incredible performance. With the 8, you have the draw of exotic looks, unique engine, excellent design overall, along with a very stiff body and good suspension design that I can possibly use as a base for a street/track car. When I have the handling where I want it (along with plenty of practice), I can then go with a super- or turbo- charger and see what she's capable of.
I'm really looking forward to that big improvement in performance. Possible choices are an rx-8, evo, sti, or g35. If I consider two-seaters (unlikely), I would also think about a miata, s2000, and 350z.
The g35 seems to have lots of fans, but I'm sorry, that's not a skyline replacement. The awd model is a sedan AND it only comes with an automatic transmission! Sorry, try again.
For me (and most people I think), the evo and sti are appealing purely because of their incredible performance. With the 8, you have the draw of exotic looks, unique engine, excellent design overall, along with a very stiff body and good suspension design that I can possibly use as a base for a street/track car. When I have the handling where I want it (along with plenty of practice), I can then go with a super- or turbo- charger and see what she's capable of.
#41
Originally posted by rabinabo
Hey, that's right, I did notice that you have a fort escort. I still have my 98 zx2, and I'm still fairly happy with it. Heck, I still outaccelerate most cars around here (La Jolla) at lights, but that's because everybody drives like an old lady. I occasionally go to auto-x, but I plan on becoming more of a regular with my next car.
I'm really looking forward to that big improvement in performance. Possible choices are an rx-8, evo, sti, or g35. If I consider two-seaters (unlikely), I would also think about a miata, s2000, and 350z.
The g35 seems to have lots of fans, but I'm sorry, that's not a skyline replacement. The awd model is a sedan AND it only comes with an automatic transmission! Sorry, try again.
For me (and most people I think), the evo and sti are appealing purely because of their incredible performance. With the 8, you have the draw of exotic looks, unique engine, excellent design overall, along with a very stiff body and good suspension design that I can possibly use as a base for a street/track car. When I have the handling where I want it (along with plenty of practice), I can then go with a super- or turbo- charger and see what she's capable of.
Hey, that's right, I did notice that you have a fort escort. I still have my 98 zx2, and I'm still fairly happy with it. Heck, I still outaccelerate most cars around here (La Jolla) at lights, but that's because everybody drives like an old lady. I occasionally go to auto-x, but I plan on becoming more of a regular with my next car.
I'm really looking forward to that big improvement in performance. Possible choices are an rx-8, evo, sti, or g35. If I consider two-seaters (unlikely), I would also think about a miata, s2000, and 350z.
The g35 seems to have lots of fans, but I'm sorry, that's not a skyline replacement. The awd model is a sedan AND it only comes with an automatic transmission! Sorry, try again.
For me (and most people I think), the evo and sti are appealing purely because of their incredible performance. With the 8, you have the draw of exotic looks, unique engine, excellent design overall, along with a very stiff body and good suspension design that I can possibly use as a base for a street/track car. When I have the handling where I want it (along with plenty of practice), I can then go with a super- or turbo- charger and see what she's capable of.
That's a nice choice of cars. I'm not so sure I would have bought an EVO, if I bought lived in California due to the great weather and crappy gasoline. Many of the EVO's tests were done in Cali with the 91 Octane gas - which might explain why some people have beaten the Mag.times. I still envy your living in LaJolla as I have always wanted to live in the San Diego area.
#42
Yeah, living here does tend to spoil you. Although I'll most likely be moving to the east coast for my next job, which will mean worse weather and no good mexican food, but the job will allow me to buy that new car
The zx2 has a total of 132 hp (I think), so yeah, the evo would have twice the power with an extra axle to drive It is awefully tempting I'll admit, and for a while I was formulating a plan to modify my evo with a Shiv Stage 1 and more Regardless I'm going to try to take a test drive in the Evo to have an informed opinion.
However, check out the comparison in dimensions between the zx2, 8, and evo (in inches:
length 175.2 174.3 178.5
height 52.3 52.8 57.1
width 67.4 69.7 69.7
wheel base 98.4 106.4 103.3
curb weight 2464 3000? 3263
I like that the 8 keeps the roofline almost as high as my zx2. The evo is almost 5 inches taller. Now look at the length vs wheelbase. The 8 is the shortest, yet has much longer wheel base (ok, not so much more than the evo). Amazingly, the 8 has much more room in the back compared to my zx2. That's one of the main reasons I think the rx-8 is more complete package.
The zx2 has a total of 132 hp (I think), so yeah, the evo would have twice the power with an extra axle to drive It is awefully tempting I'll admit, and for a while I was formulating a plan to modify my evo with a Shiv Stage 1 and more Regardless I'm going to try to take a test drive in the Evo to have an informed opinion.
However, check out the comparison in dimensions between the zx2, 8, and evo (in inches:
length 175.2 174.3 178.5
height 52.3 52.8 57.1
width 67.4 69.7 69.7
wheel base 98.4 106.4 103.3
curb weight 2464 3000? 3263
I like that the 8 keeps the roofline almost as high as my zx2. The evo is almost 5 inches taller. Now look at the length vs wheelbase. The 8 is the shortest, yet has much longer wheel base (ok, not so much more than the evo). Amazingly, the 8 has much more room in the back compared to my zx2. That's one of the main reasons I think the rx-8 is more complete package.
Last edited by rabinabo; 12-08-2003 at 04:15 PM.
#43
Originally posted by rabinabo
Yeah, living here does tend to spoil you. Although I'll most likely be moving to the east coast for my next job, which will mean worse weather and no good mexican food, but the job will allow me to buy that new car
Yeah, living here does tend to spoil you. Although I'll most likely be moving to the east coast for my next job, which will mean worse weather and no good mexican food, but the job will allow me to buy that new car
#44
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Originally posted by renotse
What Excuses? rebelzx
Here is a Little COMPETITION/RACING for you.
At the December Houston SCCA AutoX held Dec 6 2003.
221 drivers competed, out of those :
4 - RX8 best time 37.060
2- EVO best time 39.465
5 - STi best time 38.545
6 - WRX best time 38.846
3 of the 4 RX8s that competed bested ALL the EVOs and Sti/WRXs
Out of the combined classes (including prepared and modifierd) and 221 drivers the Stock RX8 had 2 entries in the top 10 times, 4th and 7th.
In the Stock classes, RX8 took 2nd, 3rd, and 4th best overall times in all stock classes bested only by a national ranked Porsche Boxter. The EVO was about 25th with a 39.465 time
For the last three months the same results have been posted, and the turbo-econo-box crowd keep ignoring the facts.
RX8 kicks BUTT on the course and Track
What Excuses? rebelzx
Here is a Little COMPETITION/RACING for you.
At the December Houston SCCA AutoX held Dec 6 2003.
221 drivers competed, out of those :
4 - RX8 best time 37.060
2- EVO best time 39.465
5 - STi best time 38.545
6 - WRX best time 38.846
3 of the 4 RX8s that competed bested ALL the EVOs and Sti/WRXs
Out of the combined classes (including prepared and modifierd) and 221 drivers the Stock RX8 had 2 entries in the top 10 times, 4th and 7th.
In the Stock classes, RX8 took 2nd, 3rd, and 4th best overall times in all stock classes bested only by a national ranked Porsche Boxter. The EVO was about 25th with a 39.465 time
For the last three months the same results have been posted, and the turbo-econo-box crowd keep ignoring the facts.
RX8 kicks BUTT on the course and Track
However, it does bug me that you keep using the Houston example and the Top Gear test as an example when there is much more evidence that the S2K is still the better car in BS and that the EVO & STi is a better car around a real track. The level of driver skill in autox is so far ranging that using one example of some RX-8s toping other cars in one region means little.
Ike
#45
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Originally posted by IkeWRX
The thing you don't get is most serious autox guys compete within their class, where they finish out of all classes is just gravy. The BS cars are usually some of the fastest cars out there and there's a reason why they are all in the same class together, they are sorted very very well for autox courses.
However, it does bug me that you keep using the Houston example and the Top Gear test as an example when there is much more evidence that the S2K is still the better car in BS and that the EVO & STi is a better car around a real track. The level of driver skill in autox is so far ranging that using one example of some RX-8s toping other cars in one region means little.
Ike
The thing you don't get is most serious autox guys compete within their class, where they finish out of all classes is just gravy. The BS cars are usually some of the fastest cars out there and there's a reason why they are all in the same class together, they are sorted very very well for autox courses.
However, it does bug me that you keep using the Houston example and the Top Gear test as an example when there is much more evidence that the S2K is still the better car in BS and that the EVO & STi is a better car around a real track. The level of driver skill in autox is so far ranging that using one example of some RX-8s toping other cars in one region means little.
Ike
#46
Originally posted by IkeWRX
The thing you don't get is most serious autox guys compete within their class, where they finish out of all classes is just gravy.
The thing you don't get is most serious autox guys compete within their class, where they finish out of all classes is just gravy.
Originally posted by IkeWRX
The BS cars are usually some of the fastest cars out there and there's a reason why they are all in the same class together, they are sorted very very well for autox courses.
The BS cars are usually some of the fastest cars out there and there's a reason why they are all in the same class together, they are sorted very very well for autox courses.
Originally posted by IkeWRX
However, it does bug me that you keep using the Houston example and the Top Gear test as an example when there is much more evidence that the S2K is still the better car in BS and that the EVO & STi is a better car around a real track. The level of driver skill in autox is so far ranging that using one example of some RX-8s toping other cars in one region means little.
Ike
However, it does bug me that you keep using the Houston example and the Top Gear test as an example when there is much more evidence that the S2K is still the better car in BS and that the EVO & STi is a better car around a real track. The level of driver skill in autox is so far ranging that using one example of some RX-8s toping other cars in one region means little.
Ike
Tim Pryor's RX8 has been narrowly beaten by David for the past 3 months and came within .074 this weekend of beating David. He might just do it in the future.
As for you Ike it's ok if your "bugged" I won't be losing any sleep.
#47
I'm actually interested in your thoughts about one particular performance number for the rx-8, the lateral g's. I thought that the 8's numbers were much smaller than the evo, but now that I check with R&T, they both got .88g. Do you guys have different numbers that have been reported? I wonder how many g's the 8 can handle with stiffer suspension, like jic coilovers and racing beat sway bars, etc.?
#48
Oh yeah, a little more history about the evolution of my car of choice. I started out being revved up about the STi (before Subaru even announced it was coming to the states). I didn't even consider the evo at first because of the 29 hp difference
When I started to hang out at evolutionm, I got so excited about all the mods available that I started to warm up to the Evo until it was my top choice. Hey, I'm used to ZX2 aftermarket support which really sucks compared to most imports.
I also didn't consider the rx-8 because the engine had much less power, plus I was excited about AWD. However, I had admired the looks (especially in person at a mazda rev-it-up event) for a while. So I started checking this site out, and eventually the rx-8 pulled ahead in the race for my heart (cheesy yes, but what can I say, I'm a cheesy guy). When I sat down for the test drive, it felt like the planets aligned and everything was just right.
When I started to hang out at evolutionm, I got so excited about all the mods available that I started to warm up to the Evo until it was my top choice. Hey, I'm used to ZX2 aftermarket support which really sucks compared to most imports.
I also didn't consider the rx-8 because the engine had much less power, plus I was excited about AWD. However, I had admired the looks (especially in person at a mazda rev-it-up event) for a while. So I started checking this site out, and eventually the rx-8 pulled ahead in the race for my heart (cheesy yes, but what can I say, I'm a cheesy guy). When I sat down for the test drive, it felt like the planets aligned and everything was just right.
#49
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Originally posted by IkeWRX
The thing you don't get is most serious autox guys compete within their class, where they finish out of all classes is just gravy. The BS cars are usually some of the fastest cars out there and there's a reason why they are all in the same class together, they are sorted very very well for autox courses.
However, it does bug me that you keep using the Houston example and the Top Gear test as an example when there is much more evidence that the S2K is still the better car in BS and that the EVO & STi is a better car around a real track. The level of driver skill in autox is so far ranging that using one example of some RX-8s toping other cars in one region means little.
Ike
The thing you don't get is most serious autox guys compete within their class, where they finish out of all classes is just gravy. The BS cars are usually some of the fastest cars out there and there's a reason why they are all in the same class together, they are sorted very very well for autox courses.
However, it does bug me that you keep using the Houston example and the Top Gear test as an example when there is much more evidence that the S2K is still the better car in BS and that the EVO & STi is a better car around a real track. The level of driver skill in autox is so far ranging that using one example of some RX-8s toping other cars in one region means little.
Ike
#50
Ok, now who's making excuses? I can understand the fact that lap times will vary enormously depending on the driver. But "autox really doesn't show off the full potential of most cars..." Come on, it's a race with a start and a finish, cones to avoid, and with lots of curves, so it "doesn't show off the full potential"? It doesn't show the full potential of the engine because you mostly stay within the low gears as opposed to drag racing, but it DOES show the full potential of cars' handling capability (unlike drag racing which doesn't).