rebelzx

It seems like a lot of people have been comparing the two of these cars in this part of the board lately... So, duke it out in this thread!

What are your opinions on the RX-8 vs. Evo VIII on the track? The only concrete data I can find that compares the two are the Top Gear test track lap times. They were both by the same driver. The RX-8 ran 1'31.8'' while the Evo ran 1'28.9''. These were not US Spec cars however.

In AutoX, I would think the Evo has the advantage because it can come out of corners with more grip. However, the power difference isn't as evident here as it would be on a roadcourse.

Jag

I think performance wise the Evo is a step above the RX-8 in pretty much every aspect, I believe the Evo would spank the RX-8 on pretty much any track, the thing is basically a street legal race car. But I don't want a race car. I want a daily driver that has some style, if I bought the car strictly for racing or if I needed a daily driver that I also wanted to be really competitive on the track then I would definately pick the Evo over the RX.

Being that I live in Canada we can't even buy the Evo here so it wasn't even an option for me. If it was available I'd put it into the same category as the STi while I was car shopping before I decided on the RX-8. They've got loads of power, great handling and overall they are kickass performace cars. The problem is they have absolutly no style or character, the interior looks like it came out of last years old parts bin and the exterior does nothing for me. They just look boring. I wanted a car that has some style, a car that people do a double-take on when I drive by. The Evo and STi are simply too plain looking other than whats under the hood, they're a blast to drive but so is the 8, even though it's not nearly as fast.

If all I cared about was speed and performance then it would have been a tough choice between the Evo and STi (if we could get the Evo here that is). I don't think these cars can even be compared with the 8, they're just so different. The 8 will still hold its own on a track and I'll be much more satisfied with it as an everyday car.

This is only my opinion though, based on what I was looking for in a car, so I'm sure others might disagree.

Ike

The EVO wins in every category save for autox where the 8 has a advantage due to the importance of oversteer on a course like that as well as the tight turns that will get the turbo out of it's spool range.

Dugless

When the hell will people stop comparing the 8 to other cars? Hell yes the EVO will beat an 8.....

And a Z06 will smoke an EVO, and a used one will cost less. Who the F cares. If bragging rights is your thing, then get what ever is fastest.

All I can say is I am stoked driving my 8 to the freakin super market! Fun, fun, fun.....

Dugless

Hey Jag, Canada is alright Nice post!

revhappy

In just about every area of performance (except braking is which is basically even between the two cara), the EVO is a few notches above the RX8.

rebelzx

Left foot braking brother, left foot braking...

AbusiveWombat

Unlike the WRX the EVO spools pretty quick hitting full boost at 3500 rpms. So the power range is from 3500-7000 rpms...I doubt any autocross course will get you out of that range.

350z Driver

What is the point of comparing a turbo'd up AWD econo car (interiorwise) to a N/A RWD touring car?

You are comparing apples to oranges here.. How about Evo vs Sti? The Sti beats the Evo in just about every acceleration catagory.. What is there to duke out? I havn't seen anybody here really care about comparing the 2 cars except for you.

revhappy

Well because they are both sporting cars that seat four for about the same price? Most people don't care about the drivetrain when choosing a car.

As for the STI vs EVO, the EVO has won just about every comparison in the car mags and they pull nearly the same times on road courses, with the EVO being slightly ahead in more of the tests. Since the braking is similar and the STI has an edge in acceleration, the EVO does this through superior handling. Then you have to consider the detonation issues with the STI and the 4G63's (and the 5 speed transmission's) existence for so long that leads to more reliability (most likely) and being more responsive to mods (and safely), at least currently. However, for most, the cars are so close that it really comes down to personal preferences.

However, don't worry. Both of these "AWD economy cars" will beat that nissan coupe with the altima engine in autox, on a dragstrip and a roadcourse in stock form (add $2,000 in mods - enough to still be cheaper than the track model- and its not even close).

Ike

You want to compare the STi and the EVO, it's prettymuch a dogfight. The SRI gets the acceleration and slightly better daily driver category, and the EVO gets the slightly better handling and modability (for now) category. You can't go wrong either way and most EVO and STi drivers will agree that you can't go wrong with either car.

Wombat, the slower spool time on the WRX is diue to it's more emission friendly setup, which is very easily taken care of and is not the case with the STi. However a well sorted RWD car will still have the advantage on an autox track which by no means implies it's a better track car but just better when it comes to tight slow speed turns which are few and far between on actual race tracks. I know it has a lot to do with the driver, but it seems the STi (in my region) is turning out to be a better autox car than the EVO. Though on a more wide open racetrack it seems the EVO can make up for lost time in the straights compared to the STi. It's almost a push, the STi likes to get a little more sideways on the track and the EVO will stay on the best racing line a little better. It seems they will run almost identical track times with a very different style and feel, which is surprising considering the similarities with these cars.


Ike

revhappy

I know some guys on evolutionm.net have dominated some local events, but here are the AS results from the nationals this year:

http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/na...groups/as.html

Both the EVO and STI looked very strong.

rebelzx

Why compare the two? Because people were comparing them in other threads in the Competition forum. Its easier to have on thread to look at.

AbusiveWombat

The point of comparing the two is that for me they fell into the same catagory along with the 350z, STi, and G35. I didn't care about drivetrain, number of doors, leather, dvd navigation....I cared about which car was the most fun, along with a sticker of around $30k.

I'm not alone either...I know that revhappy was in the same boat as me. I originally was dead set on an RX8 but was crushed when I found out the horsepower. I knew then that the car would not cut it. I still have doubts in my mind everytime I see an RX8 because it is a beautiful car. Wish I had the pockets to have both. The EVO is awesome though and I have no regrets...it's not as good looking but from the drivers seat who cares. From the first time I took the EVO out I knew I was hooked.

luckee2bhere

This is a real bad comparison IMO. the EVO will beat an RX8 in every category of performance.......

greekRX-8

for comparison

Gord96BRG

These two statements are inconsistent, unless you define fun by straight line acceleration. Perfect example - many people consider a Miata to be the most fun car available on the market today, yet it's slower than any of the more expensive $30K cars. Obviously your definition of fun is far more oriented to HP ratings and straight line acceleration rather than handling feel and responsiveness, if 9 missing hp would crush you. Too bad you didn't have any faith, and now you can't recover 25 wheel hp with the $500 Canzoomer ECU mod! :D

Regards,
Gordon

revhappy

I have driven both and really there is no comparison in terms of handling and responsiveness. The RX8 is marketed for a wider audience, thus making the compromises (i.e. soft suspension, slow steering, excess weight from suicide doors and related bracing, etc) that are an anathema to guys like Wombat and me.

As for the intangibles, one of the EVO's strongpoints is that its an incredible drivers car - i.e. great steering feel, pedal placement, gearbox, seats, engine sound, etc. This was one of my complaints with the RX8 (novacain-like steering, engine that was too quiet, etc.).

In regards to Canzoomer's product, we can add an additional 25-30 WHP with an ECU reflash (which I'm betting is safer if you consider the number of times its been done and its use of a rich fuel air-fuel mixture) from what was originally advertized.

AbusiveWombat

I made my decision before the horsepower issues. Even at the 250 hp it was still going to be the slowest in the group of cars I was considering (350z, EVO, STi, S2000, RX8).

You see, fun for me is the entire package. Handling, acceleration, feel...the RX8 has two but is seriously lacking in acceleration. Fun is being able to lay the smack down on your average RSX-S with exhaust, or your average Civic that thinks his car is quick. Somehow I would feel ripped off if I could barely walk the two above...or be beat by either. But that's the juvinile side of me.

Also, I put more emphasis on acceleration than handling because taking a car to it's handling limit is dangerous on the street but acceleration is something you can tap into every day.

I'm not worried I made the wrong move. Even with Canzoomers ECU it's still a mid-low 14's car. Then you add exhaust and air filter and you're finally where the EVO is stock in terms of rolling acceleration. For the EVO, with equal spending, you're looking at mid 12's at 110 mph which is '03 Cobra acceleration. For around $2200 you're looking at a car that can hang with a Z06 on any track any day of the week....and it can hold 4 and has a usable trunk. You can't beat a turbo for easy performance.

rabinabo

I guess you bought the right car for yourself then. Congrats, the Evo is definitely a great performer. I would really love to test drive an Evo sometime, maybe over winter break. In fact, I used to check out the evo forums fairly often.

This car definitely suffers from raised expectations. Everybody expected the next rx-7, but the rx-8 was designed with different goals in mind. Here are excerpts from an interview of the rx-8 program manager:

"...our main customers...voiced a desire for more civility in sporty cars....we thought it was a good idea to biuld a sports car that could also cater to their everyday lifestyles. The second reason we built the rx-8 is we firmly believe that Mazda is the only carmaker capable of building it. The compactness of the rotary engine allowed us to create a car with sports-car styling, while provide a generous size interior....So in short, we built the rx-8 because we could."

Can cars such as the Evo and WRX be considered sports cars?

"The proportions of those 4-door cars are not those of a sports car....The cabin of sports cars should look smaller....They are sporty cars, with performance probably as high or higher than most sports cars, but they are not sports cars to me."

Because the rx-8's rotary engine is naturally-aspirated, did you have concerns about the lack of low- and mid-range torque?

"Not really. Of course...low- and mid-range torque is down (in comparison to the tt rx-7). However, we didn't want to give the rx-8 a pure sports-car, head-snapping feel. We wanted to give it smoothness and linearity...those who want more power will be able to customize the car in their own way, whether that be in the form of a turbocharger or supercharger kit."

rabinabo

These are both great cars without a doubt, but they were built to achieve totally different goals. The evo is a racecar straight from the box, but without traditional sports car dimensions, i.e. what a mod would do if he had an unlimited budget to modify a lancer. The 8 has the sports car look and feel, but it simply doesn't have the same power, so you're going to have modify it to achieve that goal.

Those are the facts, and I believe them to be indisputable

rabinabo

Now that I've said all that, I still prefer the 8. I think it's well-designed inside and out. Most of the design was decided by how to take maximal advantage of the rotary. The evo has been around for how long, and how many problems are evo 8 owners having now? Not that the 8 is without it's problems, but they seem to be more rare, plus at least mazda is doing it's best to honor the warranties (we'll see if that lasts). That's just in the first year, it will only get better. Mitsubishi seems to be antagonizing lots of evo owners because of their attitude over things like the problems with the clutch (among other things). Comparing polls in both this forum and an evo forum (evolutionm), it seems rx-8 owners are much happier than evo owners.

In the end, the 8 has the traditional sports car looks with ability to carry 4 people and with a sizeable trunk. In addition, it has superior design (imo), plus the distinctiveness (and beauty) of the rotary engine that makes the design of the car even possible. Those that want more power can wait for the aftermarket to catch up, and it will.

I'm not absolutely certain here, but mazda is hoping to sell many more 8's this year than evo's numbers in the first year, right? What are the numbers exactly? Just the sheer number of 8's that will be sold, plus the clamor for more power, practically guarantees a huge aftermarket for the 8.

I think the real comparison will be evo vs heavily modded 8, once the parts are available. To quote the inimitable Bruce Campbell, "Well, who's laughin' now?"

rebelzx

It seems that everytime one tries to talk about the performance of the RX-8, everyone falls back on the same excuses. No one on this board (the COMPETITION/RACING board, btw) seems to want to discuss Competition/Racing. Try to keep the posts on topic please. I don't want to hear anymore excuses about well, Mazda designed the car this way, bla, bla, bla.

rabinabo

WTH, that's exactly the point. They just were not aiming to make the 8 compete with the evo. It's not like a car company can design a whole car and accidentally get much better performance than what they were shooting for.

Any perceived shortcomings in the performance of the 8 were EXACTLY what Mazda designed it to have, nothing more. I'm not making ANY excuses, in fact I'm CONCEDING the WHOLE argument that the evo performs better because Mazda didn't DESIGN the 8 to outperform the evo. Anybody that will argue otherwise has no idea how well an evo performs.

Now a modded 8 or new 7 vs an evo 8 would be interesting. I just think there's not much of a contest with a stock 8 vs stock evo performance-wise.

Does it help you feel better about yourself to win an easy argument, rebel? Now, why don't you challenge yourself and go over to the Nissan forums and bait the 350Z fans. Better yet, go all out and bait the STi fans.

rabinabo

Actually, I just noticed something funny. I think none of the rx-8 owners even argued that the 8 performed better than the evo. This thread is just a bunch of evo owners justifying their purchase of an evo over the 8 (except for ike of course ). It seems to me that you evo guys are jealous of the 8 and need an ego boost, and the rx-8 people here have a big enough ego already