Young Americans
08-28-2003, 06:10 AM
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Young Americans
Just been reading main forum - And noticed that there are quite a few 17yr olds , 19yr olds , even 1 16 yr old who own an RX8.
I realize this is probably a culture difference between UK and US, but am I the only one that finds that CrAzY ?
Should drivers of that age be on the public highway in a car this powerful ?
I realize this is probably a thread to result in being flamed horribly but at least it may provide some entertainment...
Just out of interest , given that is costs £2000+ for a 17yr old to insure a 1.2 Corsa in this country - How much must insurance cost ???? It must be like the price of the car !
Thoughts ?
I realize this is probably a culture difference between UK and US, but am I the only one that finds that CrAzY ?
Should drivers of that age be on the public highway in a car this powerful ?
I realize this is probably a thread to result in being flamed horribly but at least it may provide some entertainment...
Just out of interest , given that is costs £2000+ for a 17yr old to insure a 1.2 Corsa in this country - How much must insurance cost ???? It must be like the price of the car !
Thoughts ?
08-28-2003, 06:18 AM
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When you add this with the depth (or lack of) of their driving tests it seems like a recipe for disaster IMO. A high proportion of accidents in this country involve young and or inexperienced drivers - putting them in a car with this sort of performance isn't a good idea. There are obviously exceptions to the rule but most young drivers would find the temptation to show off too irresitable in this country - I can't comment if the same sort of culture pervades in the States.
Dread to think what the insurance in the UK would be for an 18yr old!
Dread to think what the insurance in the UK would be for an 18yr old!
08-28-2003, 06:45 AM
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I have read this thread here either these kids have wealthy parents or very well paid paper rounds.
I can just about afford the car and I am 30, at 17 I had a 10 year old Ford Escort Van...
Chris
I can just about afford the car and I am 30, at 17 I had a 10 year old Ford Escort Van...
Chris
08-28-2003, 06:50 AM
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But do the parents really really love these kids (hence the car) or really , really hate these kids (hoping they will write themselves off) ?
08-28-2003, 07:08 AM
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I read some of those threads and was amazed. It must be a different culture to here. I would expect most UK insurance companies to not even touch a teenager in a 200bhp+ car.
Im sure there are some responsible kids out there, but a lot pof them cause enough accidents driving like ***** in their 70bhp Novas with 200lb of bodykit on, let alone driving a real performance car.
Im sure there are some responsible kids out there, but a lot pof them cause enough accidents driving like ***** in their 70bhp Novas with 200lb of bodykit on, let alone driving a real performance car.
08-28-2003, 07:23 AM
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I heard a story where some 19 year old bought a 2 year old golf from an auction for 8 grand. Not sure the model but i think it was a 1.6. The insurance quote for this was around 3500 quid to insure.
The parents of the kid went totally loopy as they didnt know. In the end he had to sell it again for a loss.
That was just 3rd party.
The parents of the kid went totally loopy as they didnt know. In the end he had to sell it again for a loss.
That was just 3rd party.
08-28-2003, 07:57 AM
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I'm 24 and the variance in insurance quotes is incredible.
Some companies still won't touch me for another year, as far as they're concerned you have to be over 25, while I've had quotes of less than £500 from some of the nicer companies who are prepared to look at the fact I am insured on a large number of cars and hold a racing licence.
Some companies still won't touch me for another year, as far as they're concerned you have to be over 25, while I've had quotes of less than £500 from some of the nicer companies who are prepared to look at the fact I am insured on a large number of cars and hold a racing licence.
08-28-2003, 08:15 AM
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Come on guys, american people dont even know what a "small car" is. All they know is their american dinosaurs, with their 4.0lt, 5.0lt and 6.0lt engines. Of course these pushrods engines barely produce more than 250HP, but its all they know.
So, a 1.3lt engine, even if it produces 230HP, is like child's play to them. They may even think that it could be compared to a 1.6lt Tigra
Not to mention that, the way the american economy works, almost EVERYONE is in debt two or three times over their "total worth". House is mortgaged, car(s) have been bought with loans, even their insurance could be covered by loans. So, they wouldnt think twice about buying a 30K car, even if its for their children....
And please, whoever heard of americans being good drivers ? :p They just drive sooooooooooo slowly, that going over 120kph on the highway is considered "fast"......
So, a 1.3lt engine, even if it produces 230HP, is like child's play to them. They may even think that it could be compared to a 1.6lt Tigra
Not to mention that, the way the american economy works, almost EVERYONE is in debt two or three times over their "total worth". House is mortgaged, car(s) have been bought with loans, even their insurance could be covered by loans. So, they wouldnt think twice about buying a 30K car, even if its for their children....
And please, whoever heard of americans being good drivers ? :p They just drive sooooooooooo slowly, that going over 120kph on the highway is considered "fast"......
08-28-2003, 08:27 AM
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Originally posted by The Ace
Come on guys, american people dont even know what a "small car" is. All they know is their american dinosaurs, with their 4.0lt, 5.0lt and 6.0lt engines. Of course these pushrods engines barely produce more than 250HP, but its all they know.
So, a 1.3lt engine, even if it produces 230HP, is like child's play to them. They may even think that it could be compared to a 1.6lt Tigra
Not to mention that, the way the american economy works, almost EVERYONE is in debt two or three times over their "total worth". House is mortgaged, car(s) have been bought with loans, even their insurance could be covered by loans. So, they wouldnt think twice about buying a 30K car, even if its for their children....
And please, whoever heard of americans being good drivers ? :p They just drive sooooooooooo slowly, that going over 120kph on the highway is considered "fast"......
Come on guys, american people dont even know what a "small car" is. All they know is their american dinosaurs, with their 4.0lt, 5.0lt and 6.0lt engines. Of course these pushrods engines barely produce more than 250HP, but its all they know.
So, a 1.3lt engine, even if it produces 230HP, is like child's play to them. They may even think that it could be compared to a 1.6lt Tigra
Not to mention that, the way the american economy works, almost EVERYONE is in debt two or three times over their "total worth". House is mortgaged, car(s) have been bought with loans, even their insurance could be covered by loans. So, they wouldnt think twice about buying a 30K car, even if its for their children....
And please, whoever heard of americans being good drivers ? :p They just drive sooooooooooo slowly, that going over 120kph on the highway is considered "fast"......
I totally agree about the young drivers owning powerful sports cars though. In fact, young drivers should not own a new car until they've mastered driving first IMO.
BTW, with the exception of a few areas, most people drive well over the speed limit on the highways (which is 65 MPH in most places).
08-28-2003, 08:32 AM
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This thread is hilarious, but sadly its true!!! Americans are in debt, I mean A LOT of debt. The average american has less than $2,000 dollars of savings. Many have credit card debts that are so large that they can only make the minimum payments (credit card companies love that!). Of course, the republicans and the credit card companies want to make the declaration of bankruptcy more difficult (I know it was proposed, but not sure if it passed) even though the credit card companies do credit cheks of the same quality as Mazda's customer service!
Americans are used to big, ancient engines (though surprisingly some are more efficient than you'd think), giant cars (and SUVS) and automatic transmissions (I think something like 90% of all new cars are automatics). Yes, they do drive slow, but I'm not the typical american.
Americans are used to big, ancient engines (though surprisingly some are more efficient than you'd think), giant cars (and SUVS) and automatic transmissions (I think something like 90% of all new cars are automatics). Yes, they do drive slow, but I'm not the typical american.
08-28-2003, 08:38 AM
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I would guess most of the older americans (35 and over) would agree with you; I know I do. While a 17-yr-old might be physically capable of controlling the car he/she is just more prone to accidents due to lack of experience that only time can heal. It's true regardless of the car they drive.
As a parent, I just think it's overindulgent to give kids a vehicle like this as their starter car. Let 'em start out in something more basic. My son goes to a La Jolla high school which, economically, is a pretty priviledged school. You'd be shocked at what these youngsters drive: All kinds of SUV's, MB, BMW, whatever. I guess this reflects the parents' false sense of love and devotion.
As a parent, I just think it's overindulgent to give kids a vehicle like this as their starter car. Let 'em start out in something more basic. My son goes to a La Jolla high school which, economically, is a pretty priviledged school. You'd be shocked at what these youngsters drive: All kinds of SUV's, MB, BMW, whatever. I guess this reflects the parents' false sense of love and devotion.
08-28-2003, 08:44 AM
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OK, OK you got me there. Maybe the newest american engines are indeed more efficient than they used to (it was about time anyway :D ), but still I dare you to find A SINGLE AMERICAN ENGINE that has 1.0lt displacement. Maybe I should go as far as to dare you to find a 1.6lt displacement US engine, but I dont keep up with the US developments all that much.....
Anyway, I hate to tell you revhappy and medcina, but you are OBVIOUSLY the exceptions. As revhappy pointed out, 90% of ALL cars sold are automatics (do you even KNOW how to work a manual ? :p ), and a huge percentage (like 30% or 40%) are SUVs and huge 4x4 jeeps (not Jeeps, just jeeps). And guess what these have ? 4.0lt or 5.0lt engines......
You do know that USA, having just 1/15 of the worlds population, produces over half of the world's CO and CO2 emissions ? Due partially to the heavy industry, but also to the enormous car fleet, with their huge engines......
Anyway, this is waaaayyyyyyy off topic, but anyway, this is just the way US life is.....teenagers can get their hands on powerful cars, and then get into all sorts of troubles........and all these legally, something that in Europe is almost impossible.....
Anyway, I hate to tell you revhappy and medcina, but you are OBVIOUSLY the exceptions. As revhappy pointed out, 90% of ALL cars sold are automatics (do you even KNOW how to work a manual ? :p ), and a huge percentage (like 30% or 40%) are SUVs and huge 4x4 jeeps (not Jeeps, just jeeps). And guess what these have ? 4.0lt or 5.0lt engines......
You do know that USA, having just 1/15 of the worlds population, produces over half of the world's CO and CO2 emissions ?
Due partially to the heavy industry, but also to the enormous car fleet, with their huge engines......Anyway, this is waaaayyyyyyy off topic, but anyway, this is just the way US life is.....teenagers can get their hands on powerful cars, and then get into all sorts of troubles........and all these legally, something that in Europe is almost impossible.....
08-28-2003, 08:49 AM
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Originally posted by The Ace
OK, OK you got me there. Maybe the newest american engines are indeed more efficient than they used to (it was about time anyway :D ), but still I dare you to find A SINGLE AMERICAN ENGINE that has 1.0lt displacement. Maybe I should go as far as to dare you to find a 1.6lt displacement US engine, but I dont keep up with the US developments all that much.....
OK, OK you got me there. Maybe the newest american engines are indeed more efficient than they used to (it was about time anyway :D ), but still I dare you to find A SINGLE AMERICAN ENGINE that has 1.0lt displacement. Maybe I should go as far as to dare you to find a 1.6lt displacement US engine, but I dont keep up with the US developments all that much.....
08-28-2003, 08:53 AM
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Originally posted by medcina
Yes, I do agree that most American engines are bigger than the ones sold in Europe, but have you checked out the gas prices there lately? Might explain the need for the smaller engines.
Yes, I do agree that most American engines are bigger than the ones sold in Europe, but have you checked out the gas prices there lately? Might explain the need for the smaller engines.
Or maybe, maybe its the other way around.......gas prices are "normal" in Europe, but you are so dependent on gas/fuel, because you have such huge engines, so the prices must be "modified"......
08-28-2003, 08:56 AM
#19
A good reason I frequent the European forums is because I'm not the typical American...
I enjoy the lightweight and often lower horsepower cars that are agile and light to throw around. I'm also 22 years old, paying for the car by myself.
It irritates me that the kids that own the car don't pay a dime towards it, but that's probably a bit of frustration since I haven't had a single thing (including college) paid for by my parents. I bought my first car on my own, this car on my own, took out loans in my own name for school, and assume all the debt.
So I may be a young American.. but I'm not really representative of the majority. And actually... I'm glad I'm not.
I enjoy the lightweight and often lower horsepower cars that are agile and light to throw around. I'm also 22 years old, paying for the car by myself.
It irritates me that the kids that own the car don't pay a dime towards it, but that's probably a bit of frustration since I haven't had a single thing (including college) paid for by my parents. I bought my first car on my own, this car on my own, took out loans in my own name for school, and assume all the debt.
So I may be a young American.. but I'm not really representative of the majority. And actually... I'm glad I'm not.
08-28-2003, 09:03 AM
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Originally posted by medcina
Yes, I do agree that most American engines are bigger than the ones sold in Europe, but have you checked out the gas prices there lately? Might explain the need for the smaller engines.
Yes, I do agree that most American engines are bigger than the ones sold in Europe, but have you checked out the gas prices there lately? Might explain the need for the smaller engines.
08-28-2003, 09:12 AM
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Originally posted by 8_wannabe
Yo, medcina. Don't even lecture Europeans about gas prices. It's a losing battle. Americans got it good with respect to gas, even now, and that leads to profligate useage in big engines, that leads to our disproportiate contribution to the world's pollution and overdependence on foreign oil, meaning we need a large military and stick our nose all over the world so we can keep the oil flowing, keep the prices down, and keep our SUVs. Wonderful how this all comes together in one seemingly effortless and highly profitable equation (which your tax dollars subsidize.)
Yo, medcina. Don't even lecture Europeans about gas prices. It's a losing battle. Americans got it good with respect to gas, even now, and that leads to profligate useage in big engines, that leads to our disproportiate contribution to the world's pollution and overdependence on foreign oil, meaning we need a large military and stick our nose all over the world so we can keep the oil flowing, keep the prices down, and keep our SUVs. Wonderful how this all comes together in one seemingly effortless and highly profitable equation (which your tax dollars subsidize.)
Apart from the oil crisis, US has always been oil/gas dependent, so its actually a lose-lose situation....
08-28-2003, 10:02 AM
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For your amusement... one of the moderators on this forum is 16, and has a car on order... (Probably be 17 by the time he gets it at this rate)... but there you go.
That said, he is pretty much one of the more sensible 16/17 year old's I've ever met... and if anyone can own this car safely at that age it would be him...
Remember, those with more experience are not immune from that potentially fatal error either...
Drive carefully.
http://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthr...hreadid=127438
That said, he is pretty much one of the more sensible 16/17 year old's I've ever met... and if anyone can own this car safely at that age it would be him...
Remember, those with more experience are not immune from that potentially fatal error either...
Drive carefully.
http://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthr...hreadid=127438
08-28-2003, 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by 8_wannabe
Yo, medcina. Don't even lecture Europeans about gas prices. It's a losing battle. Americans got it good with respect to gas, even now, and that leads to profligate useage in big engines, that leads to our disproportiate contribution to the world's pollution and overdependence on foreign oil, meaning we need a large military and stick our nose all over the world so we can keep the oil flowing, keep the prices down, and keep our SUVs. Wonderful how this all comes together in one seemingly effortless and highly profitable equation (which your tax dollars subsidize.)
Yo, medcina. Don't even lecture Europeans about gas prices. It's a losing battle. Americans got it good with respect to gas, even now, and that leads to profligate useage in big engines, that leads to our disproportiate contribution to the world's pollution and overdependence on foreign oil, meaning we need a large military and stick our nose all over the world so we can keep the oil flowing, keep the prices down, and keep our SUVs. Wonderful how this all comes together in one seemingly effortless and highly profitable equation (which your tax dollars subsidize.)
Like I said earlier, I don't like big V8's either (unless it's warranted and in some situations it is) and prefer smaller, zippier engines over the larger ones.
08-28-2003, 10:33 AM
#25
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I kinda like this international dialog stuff.
>>Yo, medcina.
>Well, I was going to say
I'm glad 8_wannabe beat you to it Ace. Somehow an American saying it has more of a ring to it, but I knew you were thinking it, and it's true. Just so you know there are also a lot of Americans that aren't happy about it. At the moment we seem to be on the losing side of the argument here.
Another thing you're right about is the debt. I gotta say I'm guilty as charged. Granted I put a big down payment on my 8, and I paid off most of my other debt. We also bought a house recently, a fixer-upper. But I'm on the better (less debt) end of the spectrum. I guess when the pResident think 1/2 trillion is no big deal , our perspective gets warped.
I'm 40. My parents didn't pay for anything. They said, "when you can make the payments, and pay the insurance, you can have a car." So I learned on VW bugs. Today what gets me, when you talk about SUVs, is that parents are getting these to "protect" their kids. The kids may <a href="http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9222">
destroy</a> another car (which insurance pays for) or even kill someone, but as long as my kid is OK. Why don't they realize that kids, with a couple of tons of V8, are *more likely* to cause mayhem?
>>Yo, medcina.
>Well, I was going to say
I'm glad 8_wannabe beat you to it Ace. Somehow an American saying it has more of a ring to it, but I knew you were thinking it, and it's true. Just so you know there are also a lot of Americans that aren't happy about it. At the moment we seem to be on the losing side of the argument here.
Another thing you're right about is the debt. I gotta say I'm guilty as charged. Granted I put a big down payment on my 8, and I paid off most of my other debt. We also bought a house recently, a fixer-upper. But I'm on the better (less debt) end of the spectrum. I guess when the pResident think 1/2 trillion is no big deal , our perspective gets warped.
I'm 40. My parents didn't pay for anything. They said, "when you can make the payments, and pay the insurance, you can have a car." So I learned on VW bugs. Today what gets me, when you talk about SUVs, is that parents are getting these to "protect" their kids. The kids may <a href="http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9222">
destroy</a> another car (which insurance pays for) or even kill someone, but as long as my kid is OK. Why don't they realize that kids, with a couple of tons of V8, are *more likely* to cause mayhem?