Reply from Chris Twine , Customer Assistance Manager
07-08-2003, 07:24 AM
#1
Reply from Chris Twine , Customer Assistance Manager
I hope he doesnt mind me posting this, hardly anything personal or secret :
I wont comment yet, as it appears Mazda may post officialy on this forum.
Dear Mr Dickinson
Our Press & PR Manager, Graeme Fudge, has passed a copy of your e-mail
to me regarding our forthcoming Mazda RX-8 model and the information
you have
read on the two Mazda RX-8 community web sites.
It may be of assistance to you if I give you a brief history of RX-8
launch so far from our position, rather than being reliant on the
information contained on the above websites, which are based on individuals
opinions rather than factual information from Mazda, and therefore some
of the information on these websites is not always correct. I would
however mention at this stage that we are in the process of writing to the
originators of the www.rx8forum.com website in order that a formal
statement from Mazda Motors UK Limited can be posted on this site.
The first production of the Mazda RX-8 ("Job Number One") was achieved
in March 2003, but these vehicles were built for the Japanese market
where vehicle and engine specification, and in particular emissions
legislation, is significantly different to Europe. It was always planned
that the production launch for Mazda RX-8 was to be in three phases,
first Japan, then North America and then, once initial allocations were
completed for these two markets, the third phase of launch was scheduled
for Europe.
When we initially launched the pre-order programme at the end of
February in the UK, the initial indication we were given from Mazda
Headquarters in Japan was that European "Job One" would take place around the
end of April. On this basis, giving enough time to build up a bank of
stock and ship the cars from Japan, our expectation was that the UK
launch would take place in late July.
However, two issues have delayed this. Firstly, engineering issues to
ensure that the rotary engine was fully compliant with Euro 4 level of
emissions (currently the most rigorous in the world) meant that the
engineers in Japan wanted more time for engine testing. This slowed down
the ramp up of rotary engine build. I can confirm that the Mazda RX-8
will meet Euro 4 emissions ahead of this becoming a European
legislative requirement. Secondly, and this is the key issue, unfortunately, we
are victims of our own success. It was anticipated that the
advertising pre-launch in Japan would generate around 1,000 customer orders. In
fact it has generated over 5,000 and in order to protect this supply
and not to build up unrealistic expectations in other markets around the
world it was decided to delay the first production of European vehicles
by around two and a half months. Perhaps if we had known this at the
time we would not have launched our own pre-order facility as earl!
y as we did.
We now expect the first shipments of new Mazda RX-8s to leave Japan for
the UK on around 20 August 2003. This information was only finally
confirmed in the last two weeks and hence we took the decision to write to
all pre-order customers to advise them that realistic deliveries will
commence late October 2003. I realise that this will be of little
comfort to customers like yourself who are keen to get their hands on the
Mazda RX-8, but I wanted you to have the full picture. I can only
apologise for this delay and the frustration it is undoubtedly causing.
Orders will still be fulfilled in the sequence in which they were received
by Mazda Motors UK Limited and owners who have pre-ordered vehicles will
be advised of delivery dates during August 2003. Our Mazda dealer
network will be receiving demonstrator vehicles prior to customers
receiving their vehicles and therefore there will be the opportunity for
customers to test drive the Mazda RX-8 before taking delivery of their!
own vehicles.
With regard to the change in engine power output from that originally
anticipated, the reason for this is that as it was critical for the
Mazda RX-8 to achieve the Euro stage 4 emissions the decision was made to
slightly lower the power output to 231ps @ 8,200 rpm. However this
power output is still an outstanding proposition and provides a truly
thrilling drive, particularly as the torque figure has actually increased to
211 Nm @ 5,500rpm from the original estimations.
Just to let you know that as a result of the delay, Mazda UK has taken
the decision that none of its staff will be able to have a Mazda RX-8
company car this year, not even our Managing Director. We are keeping
all of our allocation for customers. Again, I imagine this is of little
comfort, but I wanted you to understand that we are equally frustrated
by the delay. We are desperate to get this car launched because we
know how fantastic it will be when it arrives.
The pre-order customers who have been able to view the only Mazda RX-8
vehicle we have in the country at this time, have, without exception,
been ecstatic about the vehicle. These customers have stated that this
viewing has reconfirmed that they have made the correct decision in
choosing the Mazda RX-8 and virtually every customer has kept their
pre-order to ensure that they are one of the first owners of this exciting
new model.
I trust that the above information has helped to explain the supply
situation for you and I thank you for taking the time to write regarding
these issues.
Yours sincerely
Chris Twine
Customer Assistance Manager
Mazda Motors UK Limited
Our Press & PR Manager, Graeme Fudge, has passed a copy of your e-mail
to me regarding our forthcoming Mazda RX-8 model and the information
you have
read on the two Mazda RX-8 community web sites.
It may be of assistance to you if I give you a brief history of RX-8
launch so far from our position, rather than being reliant on the
information contained on the above websites, which are based on individuals
opinions rather than factual information from Mazda, and therefore some
of the information on these websites is not always correct. I would
however mention at this stage that we are in the process of writing to the
originators of the www.rx8forum.com website in order that a formal
statement from Mazda Motors UK Limited can be posted on this site.
The first production of the Mazda RX-8 ("Job Number One") was achieved
in March 2003, but these vehicles were built for the Japanese market
where vehicle and engine specification, and in particular emissions
legislation, is significantly different to Europe. It was always planned
that the production launch for Mazda RX-8 was to be in three phases,
first Japan, then North America and then, once initial allocations were
completed for these two markets, the third phase of launch was scheduled
for Europe.
When we initially launched the pre-order programme at the end of
February in the UK, the initial indication we were given from Mazda
Headquarters in Japan was that European "Job One" would take place around the
end of April. On this basis, giving enough time to build up a bank of
stock and ship the cars from Japan, our expectation was that the UK
launch would take place in late July.
However, two issues have delayed this. Firstly, engineering issues to
ensure that the rotary engine was fully compliant with Euro 4 level of
emissions (currently the most rigorous in the world) meant that the
engineers in Japan wanted more time for engine testing. This slowed down
the ramp up of rotary engine build. I can confirm that the Mazda RX-8
will meet Euro 4 emissions ahead of this becoming a European
legislative requirement. Secondly, and this is the key issue, unfortunately, we
are victims of our own success. It was anticipated that the
advertising pre-launch in Japan would generate around 1,000 customer orders. In
fact it has generated over 5,000 and in order to protect this supply
and not to build up unrealistic expectations in other markets around the
world it was decided to delay the first production of European vehicles
by around two and a half months. Perhaps if we had known this at the
time we would not have launched our own pre-order facility as earl!
y as we did.
We now expect the first shipments of new Mazda RX-8s to leave Japan for
the UK on around 20 August 2003. This information was only finally
confirmed in the last two weeks and hence we took the decision to write to
all pre-order customers to advise them that realistic deliveries will
commence late October 2003. I realise that this will be of little
comfort to customers like yourself who are keen to get their hands on the
Mazda RX-8, but I wanted you to have the full picture. I can only
apologise for this delay and the frustration it is undoubtedly causing.
Orders will still be fulfilled in the sequence in which they were received
by Mazda Motors UK Limited and owners who have pre-ordered vehicles will
be advised of delivery dates during August 2003. Our Mazda dealer
network will be receiving demonstrator vehicles prior to customers
receiving their vehicles and therefore there will be the opportunity for
customers to test drive the Mazda RX-8 before taking delivery of their!
own vehicles.
With regard to the change in engine power output from that originally
anticipated, the reason for this is that as it was critical for the
Mazda RX-8 to achieve the Euro stage 4 emissions the decision was made to
slightly lower the power output to 231ps @ 8,200 rpm. However this
power output is still an outstanding proposition and provides a truly
thrilling drive, particularly as the torque figure has actually increased to
211 Nm @ 5,500rpm from the original estimations.
Just to let you know that as a result of the delay, Mazda UK has taken
the decision that none of its staff will be able to have a Mazda RX-8
company car this year, not even our Managing Director. We are keeping
all of our allocation for customers. Again, I imagine this is of little
comfort, but I wanted you to understand that we are equally frustrated
by the delay. We are desperate to get this car launched because we
know how fantastic it will be when it arrives.
The pre-order customers who have been able to view the only Mazda RX-8
vehicle we have in the country at this time, have, without exception,
been ecstatic about the vehicle. These customers have stated that this
viewing has reconfirmed that they have made the correct decision in
choosing the Mazda RX-8 and virtually every customer has kept their
pre-order to ensure that they are one of the first owners of this exciting
new model.
I trust that the above information has helped to explain the supply
situation for you and I thank you for taking the time to write regarding
these issues.
Yours sincerely
Chris Twine
Customer Assistance Manager
Mazda Motors UK Limited
07-08-2003, 08:18 AM
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It's nice that you got such a prompt (by Mazda standards) , detailed and well composed response.
It just proves that Mazda UK were kept in the dark to a certain degree and are equally frustrated by the delays.
Time for a letter to Mazda Japan I think!
It just proves that Mazda UK were kept in the dark to a certain degree and are equally frustrated by the delays.
Time for a letter to Mazda Japan I think!
07-08-2003, 08:49 AM
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I agree with Andy that is a detailed and honest reply.
I do believe Mazda UK are not responsible for the delays and changes to the car. The communucation could have been better, but I think they were caught out by events and not geared up for what has happened.
Maybe complaints should be to Mazda Japan instead, can anyone write japanese?
I do believe Mazda UK are not responsible for the delays and changes to the car. The communucation could have been better, but I think they were caught out by events and not geared up for what has happened.
Maybe complaints should be to Mazda Japan instead, can anyone write japanese?
07-08-2003, 08:53 AM
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If the torque has been upped, what was it originally?
Good reply nevertheless but it's what they do for us in return for our patience that will make the difference.
Look forward to some hard news from Mazda Uk on the forum?
Cheers
Oilman
Good reply nevertheless but it's what they do for us in return for our patience that will make the difference.
Look forward to some hard news from Mazda Uk on the forum?
Cheers
Oilman
07-08-2003, 08:57 AM
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I concur with the general feeling. Mazda UK didnt have a clue.
Still looks to me like we being shafted by Mazda JPN (typical cause they lost the war they make us wait)
Servicing there own domestic market and using the EURO 4 as a get out is only an excuse. Surely these emission standards have been around for a while not something sprung upon them at the last minute.
Still looks to me like we being shafted by Mazda JPN (typical cause they lost the war they make us wait)
Servicing there own domestic market and using the EURO 4 as a get out is only an excuse. Surely these emission standards have been around for a while not something sprung upon them at the last minute.
07-08-2003, 09:15 AM
#6
ok , comments 
"However, two issues have delayed this. Firstly, engineering issues to ensure that the rotary engine was fully compliant with Euro 4 level of emissions (currently the most rigorous in the world) meant that the engineers in Japan wanted more time for engine testing."
1st delay point, Euro4. This seems to suggest some that the engine may be in some way different or changed because of Euro4 as compared to US/Japan engines? This means more than a change in the ECU?
2nd delay point, higher orders in japan. I'm personaly glad there filling pre-orders only (even though thats 4000 more cars for japan than planed).
"and in order to protect this supply and not to build up unrealistic expectations in other markets around the world it was decided to delay the first production of European vehicles by around two and a half months."
So to avoid unrealistic expectations in US/Japan we get a 'two and a half month' delay. Cars were supposed to be here mid July and wont realy be here until November - thats more like 4 months.
"Orders will still be fulfilled in the sequence in which they were received by Mazda Motors UK Limited and owners who have pre-ordered vehicles will be advised of delivery dates during August 2003. "
Supplied by order number - good for all those with EP-12 type numbers , mine is near 30000lol.
"Our Mazda dealer network will be receiving demonstrator vehicles prior to customers receiving their vehicles and therefore there will be the opportunity for customers to test drive the Mazda RX-8 before taking delivery of their! own vehicles."
Great , we get to test drive one before we hand over the cash.
" it was critical for the Mazda RX-8 to achieve the Euro stage 4 emissions the decision was made to slightly lower the power output to 231ps @ 8,200 rpm. However this power output is still an outstanding proposition and provides a truly thrilling drive, particularly as the torque figure has actually increased to 211 Nm @ 5,500rpm from the original estimations."
OK, they need to sell this car for several years, and Euro4 makes sence for Mazda.
Lower BHP, at a lower rev and higher torque move this engine away from high power at high revs/no torque, although this is only a small change....
"Just to let you know that as a result of the delay, Mazda UK has taken the decision that none of its staff will be able to have a Mazda RX-8 company car this year, not even our Managing Director."
Oh what a bind, putting customers (who've payd a Ł1000 deposit) first. before the MD. I'm sure he's just as pissed as the rest of us at mazda Japan.
"These customers have stated that this viewing has reconfirmed that they have made the correct decision in choosing the Mazda RX-8 and virtually every customer has kept their pre-order"
So there has been some cancelations, from the group (pre-orders) who by definition are probably most keen on the car. Any cancellatins mean I get my car quicker tho
Once again I'd like to thank Chris Twine for his time and well worded reply.
"However, two issues have delayed this. Firstly, engineering issues to ensure that the rotary engine was fully compliant with Euro 4 level of emissions (currently the most rigorous in the world) meant that the engineers in Japan wanted more time for engine testing."
1st delay point, Euro4. This seems to suggest some that the engine may be in some way different or changed because of Euro4 as compared to US/Japan engines? This means more than a change in the ECU?
2nd delay point, higher orders in japan. I'm personaly glad there filling pre-orders only (even though thats 4000 more cars for japan than planed).
"and in order to protect this supply and not to build up unrealistic expectations in other markets around the world it was decided to delay the first production of European vehicles by around two and a half months."
So to avoid unrealistic expectations in US/Japan we get a 'two and a half month' delay. Cars were supposed to be here mid July and wont realy be here until November - thats more like 4 months.
"Orders will still be fulfilled in the sequence in which they were received by Mazda Motors UK Limited and owners who have pre-ordered vehicles will be advised of delivery dates during August 2003. "
Supplied by order number - good for all those with EP-12 type numbers , mine is near 30000lol.
"Our Mazda dealer network will be receiving demonstrator vehicles prior to customers receiving their vehicles and therefore there will be the opportunity for customers to test drive the Mazda RX-8 before taking delivery of their! own vehicles."
Great , we get to test drive one before we hand over the cash.
" it was critical for the Mazda RX-8 to achieve the Euro stage 4 emissions the decision was made to slightly lower the power output to 231ps @ 8,200 rpm. However this power output is still an outstanding proposition and provides a truly thrilling drive, particularly as the torque figure has actually increased to 211 Nm @ 5,500rpm from the original estimations."
OK, they need to sell this car for several years, and Euro4 makes sence for Mazda.
Lower BHP, at a lower rev and higher torque move this engine away from high power at high revs/no torque, although this is only a small change....
"Just to let you know that as a result of the delay, Mazda UK has taken the decision that none of its staff will be able to have a Mazda RX-8 company car this year, not even our Managing Director."
Oh what a bind, putting customers (who've payd a Ł1000 deposit) first. before the MD. I'm sure he's just as pissed as the rest of us at mazda Japan.
"These customers have stated that this viewing has reconfirmed that they have made the correct decision in choosing the Mazda RX-8 and virtually every customer has kept their pre-order"
So there has been some cancelations, from the group (pre-orders) who by definition are probably most keen on the car. Any cancellatins mean I get my car quicker tho
Once again I'd like to thank Chris Twine for his time and well worded reply.
07-08-2003, 11:50 AM
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Re: Reply from Chris Twine , Customer Assistance Manager
It's great that we're getting some communication now, however, I would take issue with a few points:
It was anticipated that the advertising pre-launch in Japan would generate around 1,000 customer orders. In fact it has generated over 5,000
Let me get this straight, for the UK Mazda expected to sell 3500 cars per year with 1000 pre-orders, but for Japan the where they expected to sell 12000 cars per year they still only expected 1000 pre-orders? Does that make any sense?
realistic deliveries will commence late October 2003.
I understand that they may not have precise delivery dates yet but this doesn't really tell us anything. They could still spend months fulfilling these orders, a few hundred at a time.
the torque figure has actually increased to 211 Nm @ 5,500rpm from the original estimations.
This translates to 155 lbft, compared to 161 lbft for the high power US car. If the "original estimations" were even lower I never saw them (were they published?)
It was anticipated that the advertising pre-launch in Japan would generate around 1,000 customer orders. In fact it has generated over 5,000
realistic deliveries will commence late October 2003.
the torque figure has actually increased to 211 Nm @ 5,500rpm from the original estimations.
07-08-2003, 12:57 PM
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This type of response letter is typical of any company that didn't get it right. Believe me, I know...I use this type of tone of 'don't blame me, blame my bigger brother, but I'm sorry if things haven't gone to plan.'
If you really think about it, there is little they can do, including Mazda Japan, who will again say,' sorry customer, we got it wrong, **** happens, we're sorry'
My comments might be construed as Mazda (or any co. for that matter) not caring about customers, but it is not the case. The point is big organisations make mistakes, not deliberatley, but they do.
One thing I have grown to hate and dread in dealing with customers in the company I work for is when they ask for 'compensation'. My attitude towards this and I think Mazda's will be the same is that a mistake was made, something went wrong, they have apologised because they are as human as we are....and you guessed it, we all make mistakes!
As much as a free accessory voucher will be welcomed, if I were Mazda right now, I wouldn't give anything.
Just trying to be realistic.....don't beat me up for sticking up for Mazda...
If you really think about it, there is little they can do, including Mazda Japan, who will again say,' sorry customer, we got it wrong, **** happens, we're sorry'
My comments might be construed as Mazda (or any co. for that matter) not caring about customers, but it is not the case. The point is big organisations make mistakes, not deliberatley, but they do.
One thing I have grown to hate and dread in dealing with customers in the company I work for is when they ask for 'compensation'. My attitude towards this and I think Mazda's will be the same is that a mistake was made, something went wrong, they have apologised because they are as human as we are....and you guessed it, we all make mistakes!
As much as a free accessory voucher will be welcomed, if I were Mazda right now, I wouldn't give anything.
Just trying to be realistic.....don't beat me up for sticking up for Mazda...
07-09-2003, 03:16 AM
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As much as i would agree with Ed about mistakes happen and err is to be human and so on... but what happened to customer relations.
This is a complete PR disaster....
In the sector which i work in if a major supplier screws up knock then they usually offer a "compensatory" offering. Be it discount or some other freebie - just to keep the company happy to use there products in the future.
Yes i hear you say you cant compare a single customer to global conglomerates but in essence you can. Mazda like all other car manufactures rely heavily on the consumer, you and i and if we are not happy then we go elsewhere. The difference is a single customer wont make much of a dent in there books but when you get a 100 or so collectively arguing a point then it may make then sit up and listen.
I will stick this out till i get my car in whatever year it may end up as i cant find anything to compete for the price. I however doubt i will ever buy a mazda again after this.
This is a complete PR disaster....
In the sector which i work in if a major supplier screws up knock then they usually offer a "compensatory" offering. Be it discount or some other freebie - just to keep the company happy to use there products in the future.
Yes i hear you say you cant compare a single customer to global conglomerates but in essence you can. Mazda like all other car manufactures rely heavily on the consumer, you and i and if we are not happy then we go elsewhere. The difference is a single customer wont make much of a dent in there books but when you get a 100 or so collectively arguing a point then it may make then sit up and listen.
I will stick this out till i get my car in whatever year it may end up as i cant find anything to compete for the price. I however doubt i will ever buy a mazda again after this.
07-09-2003, 05:09 AM
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I will stick this out till i get my car in whatever year it may end up as i cant find anything to compete for the price. I however doubt i will ever buy a mazda again after this.
I think we are all agreed that for what the car offers it is great value for money and there is little else to compete with it thats why we are effectively over a barrel on this, even if they told me now it wasn't coming for another 6 months I guess i'd still wait
Ed
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