diabolical1

Hey All,

This is me bitching right now moreso than asking for help per se - although help would be nice, too. Anyway, I was driving last night when all of a sudden my car simply lost power for no apparent reason. There was virtually no acceleration, reminded me sort of when an Rx-7's timing is way, way off ... Having said that, I coaxed it to a safe place where I pulled over and tried to assess whatever the **** was going on.

I stopped, got out and saw smoke coming from both side of the hood (and to a lesser extent, the wheel-wells) and smelled something burning, so of course, I expected to see fire when I opened the hood. No blaze, something was definitely burning. I got on the floor and looked at the exhaust, lo and behold, the cat was glowing and I'm willing to bet was the source of the smell.

It had actually stalled once on the way to pulling over, but when I actually stopped it idled, albeit very roughly and loudly. Anyway, I kept an eye on the cat and it started to lose it's glow after maybe 5 to 10 minutes - keep in mind I barely had enough power to maintain 40 MPH until I could pull over. When it returned to normal, I made the decision to limp it back home and accepted that I may be been blown to kingdom come. I really didn't care anymore. (A bit dramatic, I know and it wasn't REALLY likely, but it did cross my mind).

I was about 7 to 10 minutes from home and luckily, the traffic lights were merciful so I only had 3 standing starts to contend with. Got home even more smoke than before, stronger smell than before, and it idled the same as before - rough and loud. To be honest it idled similar to a peripheral port and I found myself liking that sound coming from the 8, but I was still pissed. However, after assessing the engine bay again (this time in even worse lighting that where I had stopped earlier). I decided to just shut the engine down and deal with it when I got back home - I had an appointment I really needed to make - so I left the 8 as far away from the house as I could (in case it did ignite), jumped in the Accord and went about my business. However, upon shutting the engine off, everything went black! It took a second for me to figure it out, but there was no power! No console lighting. No key-in chime. No radio. No dome lights. Nothing!!! Just headlights and taillights.

Got back home after a few hours, it was still in one piece, so I started it and pulled it in the garage. It fired up. It idled normal. It revved normal, but still stunk. Had normal power for the few yards I had to drive it to my garage - assessed by the fact I didn't have to slip the clutch to get it to move. However, the electrical power was not restored. Frankly, I was too disgusted to deal with it last night. I have a 5 hour trip I have to cancel now and a shitstorm that I'll need to navigate because I have to cancel it.

I'm going to go out in a few miuntes to start trying to figure out what the hell went wrong. I wish I had a code reader because the CEL flashed when everything started - I know it meant misfire detected, but it told me nothing I didn't already know because I heard the engine misfire as I was trying to get somewhere safe to pull over. I'll check the coils and oxygen sensor, but I'm not quite sure what to do about the cat just yet. I'll also start looking at fuses. I just wanted to vent a little before going out to the garage.

I guess I do have one question and it's does the Rx-8 have a limp mode? I can't explain why it went back to normal after I got back home. A limp mode might explain it. At any rate, I must say I'm not easily discouraged with rotaries, but for the first time in 21 years I'm not very pleased and almost inclined to throw my hands up. Based on what I've been reading on this board people blowing motors, ignition coils being wear items, front main leaks, etc. It just seems like things have changed for the worst, not better. I don't know. Is it too much technology? Ford's input? Do they simply not care anymore? What? The 8 may be pretty and when it's working right, it may perform beautifully, but it just seems sloppy as a model - as a whole. Why does a 4+ year old Japanese car seem to have so many random flaws? This isn't just my frsutration and anger talking either. Even when the car was performing well, I had this sickening, ominous feeling that something would crap out on me while traveling somewhere far from home. I've never had that with the Mazda rotaries of the past ...

Anyway, for anyone that read this rant. Thanks for your time. I just needed to vent a bit, I guess. I'm off to go try figure out what happened and why?

Thanks,
Jason ... 1

diabolical1

development 1:

so the 15A fuse labelled "Room" seems to be the culprit for the loss of electrical power. it has blown 2 times now since i started this thread this morning. obviously there's a short somewhere there.

going to turn my attention to the engine bay before i even think of tackling electrical demons in this thing.

I8U

iTrader: (1)

Well, your sudden loss of power and the fact the cat was glowing shows that your cat is clogged. Got to get a new one...it's free if you're under 80k miles.

I'm sure with all the heat you produced when the cat was glowing has probaly melted some wiring somewhere. Hope it didn't cause to much damage but if did and if you under the 80k emissions warranty, the dealer should pay for the repair.

Renesis07

iTrader: (1)

Cats clogged and more that likely you need new plugs or coils which probably caused the cat to clog.

diabolical1

updates:

so i still don't know where the short circuit is. nothing inside the car works (no radio, no console or dome lights, door locks, trunk opener, or the remote). i'm going to try to get a wiring diagram.

i pulled the cat off the other night and looked inside, but to be honest i don't what i should be looking for. so that wasn't really productive. this is the first rotary i've ever owned with a cat attached to it, so i've had no reason to mess with one. however, i think i found one of the sources of smoke and burning smells - apparently the exhaust got hot enough to melt the right side shroud.

question for those of you that have replaced your cat: did any of you check the exhaust pulse at the tailpipe? i'd imagine it should be greatly decreased with a clogged cat, right? mine felt normal. i just thought i'd throw that out there to satisfy a personal curiosity.

i pulled the plugs and it would seem that front rotor was not sparking adequately, if at all. so i'll be getting some coils and plugs as soon as i can. i want to get wires, too, but i'm thinking about getting the Black Halo ignition upgrade, so i may just hold off on the wires until then.

i started it today to move it out of the garage and it acted normal until it got warm, then it went back to the nonsense. the engine won't rev and after a while it even shut off. i noticed something else, too. the gauges all went berzerk in the short time between turning the key and when the engine actually fired up. on a side note i thought of either setting the car on fire or calling a priest to exorcise it.

all in all, i've decided to take it to the local dealer next week and see what they have to say. financially, this couldn't have happened at worse time.

diabolical1

well, should be having it towed to the dealer in the morning. i'm still a bit uneasy simply because i'm not used to having someone else touch my car, but if i can get the cat replaced under warranty, i'm willing for the sake of simplicity. will update when i get the initial diagnostic.

shaunv74

Melted cat. is very common. Don't let them tell you that there's no CEL so there is no problem with the cat. They need to pull it and visually inspect. Your cat. is fried if it's glowing and burning. It should definitely not be doing that.

Yes the car does have a limp mode if there is not enough oil or coolant in the system. I'm not sure what else sets it off.

The power pulses at idle will probably not be affected very much since you're not moving a lot of air at idle. There is no load on the engine.

diabolical1

updates:

so ... where do i begin? they called me this morning to request more diagnostic time, you know, and more money! i'll get back to that though ...

nothing surprising, really. (1) melted cat [i had already taken you guys' word on that], (2) melted oxygen sensor, and (3) front main seal leaking [until, last week has been my main demon with this car since earlier this year or late last year - don't remember].

now back to the "needing more time"-issue. i gave credence to the request simply because there is obviously a major electrical issue since the incident last week and she specifically said that in essence, the car won't let them run the diagnostic to pull the codes. so that's how they've turned $100 into an estimation of over $400. what i found somewhat amusing was her mention of my exhaust. it wasn't accusatory, but it really sounded like a card they intend to play later on ...

i let them keep it, i suppose it's just a matter of peace of mind. solving the electrical issue is top of my priority list.

diabolical1

okay ... here goes.

(1) i think i scored the victory that really mattered to me today in that the source of the electrical short was located. it seems the Keyless Entry module got fried and was shorting out the "room" fuse. it seems like replacing it will solve that problem if worse comes to worst.

(2) as far as the cat and oxygen sensor are concerned, it's straightforward. the mechanic setup the scenario that you guys have detailed in so many other threads. you know ... (a) coils die, (b) raw gasoline gets spat into the exhaust, (c) cat dies a horrible death! the one thing that he mentioned that does concern me a bit is this: he said that the honeycomb from the cat probably traveled downstream and lodged itself in the right-side muffler (Racing Beat). he said that's probably what caused that muffler to get hot enough to melt the shroud around it.

admittedly, i don't know much outside of the basic function of a cat. moreover, this is the first rotary that't i've EVER owned that i've allowed the cat to remain on it. i don't know details about the construction (other than the fact that they use exotic metals for the core) so perhaps someone with more knowledge can help me out here. is this scenario likely? even more important to me is what that will mean for my exhaust. am i going to basically have to buy another RB exhaust?

(3) as for the leaking front main. i've lived with it for several months now and i can live with it until i am able to take care of it in a more permanent fashion.

so as it stands now, they're supposed to get back to me at some point tomorrow with prices and such. i guess we will get into details of what my warranty will cover and what i'll be responsible for. from all the threads i've read, it will more than likely only be the cat replacement. i have just over 68,000 miles.

so my only other question at this point is for those of you that have had to go through this before or happen to know the answer, will they do warranty work and release the car back to me so i can fix the rest?

i already ordered some coils two nights ago. i will get my own prices on the other parts that i know are bad (Keyless module and oxygen sensor) and if the worst case scenario plays out on the exhaust front, then i'll just re-install my stock parts.

all in all, i feel some weight off my shoulders, but i'm still pretty bummed.

diabolical1

conclusion:

they wanted blood, i suppose. i know there are markups for parts at the dealer, but i really never imagined that they would be this blatant and ridiculous.

i took the time price out as many parts as i could at my two online dealers before going there this evening and it's a good thing. just an example the cat was $1300+. my local dealer would get it to me for ... drumroll ... $2300! most of the other stuff was going for $50 to $70 more than the prices i got online, but i just had to share the cat markup. bottomline: they want over $4000 for parts alone, then who knows what else for labor.

anyway, according to them i have valid warranty claims, so i towed my car back to my house and i'll just fix it as soon as i can my hands on the parts i need.

zoom44

how many miles DOES THE CAR HAVE?

and i dont understand this

they will fix under warranty but you towed it away

shaunv74

They should be replacing the cat for free under warranty as well as the front main seal. You have an 8yr/100K warranty on the motor so the seal should be covered by that assuming you're talking about the engine and not the tranny.

You can do the other stuff yourself. I would see how the cat. goes before replacing the RB muffler and see if it's still an issue. Never heard of pieces of the cat. clogging a muffler.

If they won't replace it under warranty call Mazda north America. If you end up getting stuck with it then you can buy an aftermarket hi flow cat from rx7store.net for $350

diabolical1

that was me not proofreading out of being tired, angry and frustrated. i meant to say that they said i don't have a valid warranty claim. essentially, they set up the scenario as the coils on rotor 1 dying, then causing the cat to die and to paraphrase what he said to me, if the cat had died by itself it would have been covered, but since it was the coils that killed it, it's not. i smell bullshit and i do plan to contact Mazda on Monday, but at this point i don't expect much. i have no experiences with dealers and warranties so i'm simply at a loss due to ignorance.

i plan to see whatever information i can get on warranties over the weekend, but i doubt if i'll know my rights as well as i should.

diabolical1

it's just over 68,000 miles. i had no idea that the front main seal on the engine was a possible warranty-thing, too. i'll mention that when i speak to Mazda. i plan to call them as well as write to them.

so if i'm understanding you, then i should be able to get them to do warranty work and leave the rest to me? that would be great.

if i end up stuck with it, i plan to just get a race pipe for now and look for one of the cats that TeamRx8 had on his car. i don't mind spending the money for parts. that's never been an issue with me. i do mind feeling like i'm getting wrongfully bent over.

oh and thanks for reading all this crap and taking the time to give advice/support.

shaunv74

Check out the exact warranty information on the RX8 section of www.racingbeat.com

If you have a warranty I wouldn't wait until you are out. They can't force you to pay them to do work that is not covered by the warranty. Just tell them to let it be and you will do it.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

The best and cheapest midpipe you can buy is the one you already have , less the internals of the cat .........

diabolical1

i honestly didn't even put that spin on the situation, but i suppose you're right. i guess i could just make sure that whole inside has been destroyed and then reinstall it as a make-shift race pipe. i'll consider it. it's 200-something dollars i can put towards the workshop manual and wiring diagram.

right now i'll use my time to put the interior back together and figure why it's not starting now. i ordered some wires tonight and will try to get plugs tomorrow.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

I have been through a couple of midpipes and now run that setup (with turbo) . It is a quality free flowing pipe , you get a nice deep sound (no rasp) , it looks like you still have a cat AND it's FREE !!!!!!!

diabolical1

so it's now 7 months and the saga continues ...

first, let me start by saying, i work away from home so i simply haven't even been in the same state as the car for the last 3 1/2 months. nevertheless, i got home last night and replaced the security module this morning. the car still won't turn over. all other parts have been replaced already (months ago, before i left FL) so it's been a matter of getting the car to turn over since then.

bottomline: i guess i need help now. i'm officially out of ideas.

Razz1

I think the wiring has melted under the car. we have had two cases where cats fry the wires.

Get your compression checked.

Between the cat melting everything and maybe low compression they total the car.

diabolical1

well, i will check to confirm what you say because i'm not ruling anything out, but ...


the one reason that i think you may be incorrect is this: before i had the car towed to Mazda, it still started up just fine. it just ran like ****. when i had it towed back my house, it was in shambles. the whole interior was pulled apart. when i put things back together, it wouldn't turn over at all and i've been trying to get it to turn ever since.