slash128's Top Mount Build
04-06-2015, 11:21 PM
#976
n3rd
Thread Starter
I originally extended the MAF out to the bay based on the other bloke years ago with the PTP kit. But his intake went from small diameter to stock and back to small causing him all kinds of headaches with the MAF. Mine is stock size from the very front all the way to the turbo elbow where it increases to 4".
04-18-2015, 04:39 PM
#979
n3rd
Thread Starter
Interesting side effect of moving the MAF into the engine bay in an aluminum housing above the fans: as I sat idling in a long line at a drive thru I noticed my LTFT slowly increasing. It seems as the bay heats up the MAF takes less voltage to keep the wire hot, so it thinks less air is flowing and reduces the amount of fuel. However, then AFR is off so it starts trimming fuel back in. Once I got back home I let it idle in the garage with the hood open and the LTFT came back down...
Guess I might need to get on board with a fan tray
Guess I might need to get on board with a fan tray
04-18-2015, 07:31 PM
#981
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
Interesting side effect of moving the MAF into the engine bay in an aluminum housing above the fans: as I sat idling in a long line at a drive thru I noticed my LTFT slowly increasing. It seems as the bay heats up the MAF takes less voltage to keep the wire hot, so it thinks less air is flowing and reduces the amount of fuel. However, then AFR is off so it starts trimming fuel back in. Once I got back home I let it idle in the garage with the hood open and the LTFT came back down...
Guess I might need to get on board with a fan tray
Guess I might need to get on board with a fan tray
Yeah man, the tray is a must. For that as well as keeping IAT's at idle reasonable. However if you idle long enough IAT's will go way up anyway.
04-19-2015, 10:33 AM
#982
n3rd
Thread Starter
Curious about this. I was getting positive trims while idling. Wouldn't that lead to WOT being richer? Even still, there didn't seem to be any LTFT above idle. I did a couple tests and except for idle everywhere else had 0% LTFT. Perhaps the inrush of cool air brought the MAF back inline?
04-19-2015, 11:06 AM
#985
n3rd
Thread Starter
I think I know what you mean Brettus. If I had tuned for WOT with the trims there then it would suddenly run lean after a reflash. This is why I clear my PCM before doing any WOT tuning, so ya I definitely agree!
04-19-2015, 03:40 PM
#986
I have seen this happen several times :
Do a reflash when engine is warm then sit idling for a while . The LTFT will adjust for idle but carry this trim over to WOT as well . It's not until after a few drive cycles that the WOT trim normalises so if the trim at idle was negative ..... you would run lean.
This is why it's important for the LTFT at idle to be near zero.
Do a reflash when engine is warm then sit idling for a while . The LTFT will adjust for idle but carry this trim over to WOT as well . It's not until after a few drive cycles that the WOT trim normalises so if the trim at idle was negative ..... you would run lean.
This is why it's important for the LTFT at idle to be near zero.
Last edited by Brettus; 04-19-2015 at 03:43 PM.
04-19-2015, 07:57 PM
#987
n3rd
Thread Starter
I moved the MAF back out front. It hunts a little but not horrible. In the bay it was rock solid I'm thinking because it had less length which cut down on the time it took for the O2 sensor to register changes. I'd rather deal with a little hunting at idle than see the trims build like that. Now to craft a decent water shield. The problem is water dripping down into the connector when it rains.
Team I like the idea of the Adaptronic but flash tuning has worked for my needs so I haven't been able to justify the $$$
Team I like the idea of the Adaptronic but flash tuning has worked for my needs so I haven't been able to justify the $$$
04-20-2015, 08:01 PM
#990
This is exactly the answer I'd expect from someone with no understanding or experience with the Adaptronic
I've mastered MAF tuning fine and never said you couldn't gimmick your way around it with band-aids and such. Then there is the 5V limit too.
Keep impressing us with your lack of understanding B ...
04-20-2015, 11:58 PM
#991
This is exactly the answer I'd expect from someone with no understanding or experience with the Adaptronic
I've mastered MAF tuning fine and never said you couldn't gimmick your way around it with band-aids and such. Then there is the 5V limit too.
Keep impressing us with your lack of understanding B ...
I've mastered MAF tuning fine and never said you couldn't gimmick your way around it with band-aids and such. Then there is the 5V limit too.
Keep impressing us with your lack of understanding B ...
I don't actually care if anyone thinks I understand stuff or not . You obviously, have an image to protect . It shines through in many of your carefully worded answers that try and portray that you know the answer.................. even if you don't.
Keep it up Team , most people are buying it !
04-21-2015, 11:40 AM
#995
not sure why anyone else is getting wound up, I'm not though.
You do know that I'm in the process of converting my NA engine over to an Adaptronic, right?
My only need for Cobb AP is to block CELs so that it still has OBD2 test passing capability, though in reality the need for it is moot ... because race car
but to get back on topic for this thread, I only brought it up because it's generally accepted that MAP is more forgiving and well suited for FI. The Adaptronic piggyback allows you much more control over various tuning factors too. MAF is extremely accurate, but to a fault. It makes sense if your goal is emissions & fuel economy, but it's like using a sledge hammer to chisel intimate details on minature sandstone figurines wrt FI performance.
otherwise sorry again if hit a sensitive spot
.
You do know that I'm in the process of converting my NA engine over to an Adaptronic, right?
My only need for Cobb AP is to block CELs so that it still has OBD2 test passing capability, though in reality the need for it is moot ... because race car
but to get back on topic for this thread, I only brought it up because it's generally accepted that MAP is more forgiving and well suited for FI. The Adaptronic piggyback allows you much more control over various tuning factors too. MAF is extremely accurate, but to a fault. It makes sense if your goal is emissions & fuel economy, but it's like using a sledge hammer to chisel intimate details on minature sandstone figurines wrt FI performance.
otherwise sorry again if hit a sensitive spot
.
Last edited by TeamRX8; 04-21-2015 at 12:13 PM.
04-21-2015, 04:22 PM
#996
remember the three break points in the maf, each one has a LTFT associated with it, so you should have 0-10gs ltft, 10-20gs ltft, and 20-max gs LTFT
its been my experience that the 20-400ish GS LTFT is the one that will influence the WOT trims
that being said I still like the maf out side the engine bay, and the tray just makes things pretty
the adaptronic is cool but its still a piggy back, for 1500$ I want to replace the entire ecu, Power FC did it for the rx7 for 1k....
really I am envy the Mazdaspeed3 OEM ecu, it has boost control, and Uses MAF and MAP sensors to do its fueling. The cobb has access to all of it
its been my experience that the 20-400ish GS LTFT is the one that will influence the WOT trims
that being said I still like the maf out side the engine bay, and the tray just makes things pretty
the adaptronic is cool but its still a piggy back, for 1500$ I want to replace the entire ecu, Power FC did it for the rx7 for 1k....
really I am envy the Mazdaspeed3 OEM ecu, it has boost control, and Uses MAF and MAP sensors to do its fueling. The cobb has access to all of it
04-21-2015, 04:30 PM
#997
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
remember the three break points in the maf, each one has a LTFT associated with it, so you should have 0-10gs ltft, 10-20gs ltft, and 20-max gs LTFT
its been my experience that the 20-400ish GS LTFT is the one that will influence the WOT trims
that being said I still like the maf out side the engine bay, and the tray just makes things pretty
the adaptronic is cool but its still a piggy back, for 1500$ I want to replace the entire ecu, Power FC did it for the rx7 for 1k....
really I am envy the Mazdaspeed3 OEM ecu, it has boost control, and Uses MAF and MAP sensors to do its fueling. The cobb has access to all of it
its been my experience that the 20-400ish GS LTFT is the one that will influence the WOT trims
that being said I still like the maf out side the engine bay, and the tray just makes things pretty
the adaptronic is cool but its still a piggy back, for 1500$ I want to replace the entire ecu, Power FC did it for the rx7 for 1k....
really I am envy the Mazdaspeed3 OEM ecu, it has boost control, and Uses MAF and MAP sensors to do its fueling. The cobb has access to all of it
Yeah it would be great. Some of the other platforms (like the FD, BMW's, Subies, etc.) get all the goodies. But we have to work with what we have. The Adaptronic just gives you more capability. Whether that equates to more power is yet to be seen but so far so good. Flex fuel capability, MAP tuning, integrated boost control, etc. are super nice features.
04-21-2015, 04:33 PM
#998
not sure why anyone else is getting wound up, I'm not though.
You do know that I'm in the process of converting my NA engine over to an Adaptronic, right?
My only need for Cobb AP is to block CELs so that it still has OBD2 test passing capability, though in reality the need for it is moot ... because race car
but to get back on topic for this thread, I only brought it up because it's generally accepted that MAP is more forgiving and well suited for FI. The Adaptronic piggyback allows you much more control over various tuning factors too. MAF is extremely accurate, but to a fault. It makes sense if your goal is emissions & fuel economy, but it's like using a sledge hammer to chisel intimate details on minature sandstone figurines wrt FI performance.
otherwise sorry again if hit a sensitive spot
.
You do know that I'm in the process of converting my NA engine over to an Adaptronic, right?
My only need for Cobb AP is to block CELs so that it still has OBD2 test passing capability, though in reality the need for it is moot ... because race car
but to get back on topic for this thread, I only brought it up because it's generally accepted that MAP is more forgiving and well suited for FI. The Adaptronic piggyback allows you much more control over various tuning factors too. MAF is extremely accurate, but to a fault. It makes sense if your goal is emissions & fuel economy, but it's like using a sledge hammer to chisel intimate details on minature sandstone figurines wrt FI performance.
otherwise sorry again if hit a sensitive spot
.
As far as the maf vs map .... Yes MAP is less sensitive . But Maf can be made less sensitive too . I found that by disabling the LTFT regime it becomes a lot more forgiving of minor boost leaks etc.
