When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Summarising the info you've posted on this, you're coming on boost to about 16psi, then tapering to 10psi at redline, with EB ratio of 1, climbing to 2 at redline.
Not quite correct . Have not tested 16psi to redline yet and there is no tapering off of boost pressure . Whatever i set it to , it will hold to redline.
Running 10 psi boost I see 20psi EB at 8000rpm . Not sure what EB is for rest of rev range .
For now I've ruled out a custom manifold to T3 turbo, as I now understand that the T25 housing is capable of flowing a lot more exhaust gas than I initially thought.....
It will flow enough for that turbo efficiently so long as you go external WG !
Seriously though, my wording was off here - was trying to keep it simple by combining your EB ratio results from your thread (below), with the results you posted here.
Originally Posted by Brettus
Exhaust backpressure is following boost pressure up to 4500 . Have not boosted past that rpm yet.
Last edited by JimmyBlack; 12-20-2015 at 08:43 PM.
Seriously though, my wording was off here - was trying to keep it simple by combining your EB ratio results from your thread (below), with the results you posted here.
I should do a run and get some more accurate results so you can plot them against yours on your fancy software
I should do a run and get some more accurate results so you can plot them against yours on your fancy software
My method was to take a video of the boost gauges on my phone while doing a 3rd gear WOT run. I then played the video back slowly and wrote down the boost and exhaust pressure every 1000 rpm. If you could do an 11psi run and a full noise run and email me through the results (along with g/sec airflow), I'll graph them. The 11psi run is for an apples to apples comparison with my turbo, and the full noise run would be purely to find out what's going on at that level of boost.
Update: Have just booked in my turbo rebuild with the following specs. Should be back on the car late January.
Currently the turbo has:
T25 turbine housing with internal wastegate and ported compressor housing
Standard TD06H 12 blade turbine wheel
Billet 71/53mm (55 trim) compressor wheel
Upgrading to the following:
Same housings
New 11 blade turbine wheel
New billet 76/55mm Garrett GTX compressor wheel.
New thrust bearing kit is required to handle the larger comp wheel
I had the option of a GT3576 compressor wheel, but went with the GTX wheel as the compressor map shows it has similar choke and better top end than the GT. FYI, GT wheels are 6+6 blade, vs. the GTX which typically has 10-11 blades.
I was originally looking at a 9 blade light weight turbine wheel. There have been some major quality issues with these blowing apart, particularly on high temp rotary applications, so this option is now off the table. I've settled on the 11 blade turbine wheel as the next best (only other) upgrade option.
what kind of boost are you planning on running? I think when going hybruid you should really take that into account as well. The 60-1 wheel moves a lot of air at a lower pressure ratio...it kind of makes it the go to wheel if you're running below 18psi in a smaller frame
That's an interesting point, and I spent a bit of time looking into it. The 60-1 comp wheel was my initial choice, but I've revised that to the GTX 3576 wheel after comparing the two.
Before comparing comp maps, I had heard from several sources that the GTX wheel will spool much better than the 60-1. I understand that this is due to the more modern aerodynamic blade design, and to a lesser degree that the inducer is smaller, meaning less wheel weight (rotational inertia) to spool up.
A couple of points we can get from the table above. We can see that the GTX doesn't flow as much at the top end as the 60-1, but is much more efficient in the low-mid range. I'm not too worried about the top end as my T25 housing will likely be the limiting factor to top end at this level of airflow, so I likely wouldn't notice the difference between the two wheels at the highest flow rates. I would notice the more efficient low-mid range of the GTX over the 60-1 though.
Also, we can see from the EFR flow figures that on paper it appears to be the inferior turbo, but in reality, it is likely the most preferred out of all those listed above. This really shows how you can't just look at the compressor map to figure out the best turbo - the turbine side has a huge amount to do with how suitable a turbo is.
With my small turbine wheel I didn't want to go with the GTX3582 wheel, as the large 82mm comp wheel diameter would make it quite slow to spool. 76mm is a good match for the Greddy/Mitsubishi turbine side.
Edit: I should mention that my current comp wheel is the GT3071, 56 trim listed above.
Last edited by JimmyBlack; 12-22-2015 at 04:55 PM.
Fast tracking fabrication of the T3 low mount manifold now. After reviewing feasibility of welding a stainless external wastegate flange to the Greddy manifold, I've concluded that it won't be a reliable long term solution due to some fancy chemical issues and excessive heat.
I'll still upgrade the turbo wheels and run that on the existing T25 turbine housing while the T3 manifold is being fabricated. I want to do back to back comparisons of the T25 vs. T3 setup using the same turbo at the same boost pressure. The results should be pretty different.
Current status:
Turbo wheel upgrade booked for completion by 18th of Jan
External waste gate has been ordered
SS manifold flange is sitting on the garage work bench
Welding lessons from awesome wife received for Xmas
Have had a number of delays at the turbo shop. Most noteworthy is that the lathe cut through to the anti-surge ports when it was clearancing the compressor housing for the new wheel. New housing on order. Hopefully have the turbo back in the car and get a base log for tuning some time next week.
Turbo was in for about 1 year with very roughly 10k miles on it with daily driving at 11-13psi. The restrictor on the oil feed line was approx. 0.75mm, which is less than the recommended 1-1.5mm size. I should have measured the restrictor before my initial install.
According to the turbo builder I was lucky it didn't blow up, especially with the additional heat of the rotary exhaust.
Turbo Tear Down Results
Hard to see after the housing was painted, but there's a crack running from the edge of the WG port to the turbine outlet. No idea how long it's been there, but it was performing nicely when I took the turbo out. This T25 housing is not long for this world, so I'm OK with running it like this for a few more months.
Scoring on the thrust plate due to lack of oil. The new replacement turbo wheels will likely put more pressure on this plate, but I've drilled my restrictor out to 2mm to address this.
Wear marks from lack of oil on the housing.
Discoloured shaft indicates lack of lubricant, ouch!
While boring out the compressor housing for the new larger compressor wheel, it was found that there wasn't enough clearance due to the anti-surge ports. A new un-ported housing with identical dimensions, but without the anti-surge ports was bored out successfully.
New hybrid turbo yo! Installing this weekend. Much excitement.
TD06H turbo with Garrett GTX3576 billet comp wheel and 11 blade turbine wheel. I'm expecting similar spool to previous turbo, but with at least 50whp more at the top end. Previous turbo flowed 330g/sec ~ 290whp @ about 13psi tapering down to about 9.5psi at redline.
It's taken a lot longer to get this turbo in than I had anticipated (I should know better by now).
First install of the new turbo resulted in a small ding in the WGA piston, noticed as I was latching the WGA arm onto the IWG lever after I'd done up the last bolt of the install. Swear words later, I had the turbo pulled and a new WGA mounted. New WGA has a firmer spring. From testing it looks to be about 11psi, which will be fine once it's tuned, but a bit of a bitch getting from current tune to new good tune. Will need to be a bit careful with my mid-boost logging runs.
Second install of the new turbo resulted in me discovering a failure of my oil feed line, which was hidden by the steel braided line. I discovered this by way of an entire gallon of nice new oil pissed out onto my driveway in 30 seconds flat after starting the car for the first time. Swear words later, I had the turbo pulled again and found the failure in the braided line. The last inch of rubber tube from inside the braiding literally fell out after I took the oil feed AN adapter off. Was caused by the heat coming off the Turbine housing at the end of the line that connects into the turbo. Original rubber/steel braided oil line now replaced with the correct material - braided PTFE line, and a DEI thermal sleeve for good measure. Belt and braces this time - very lucky that this failure didn't cost me my motor. FYI, judging by the steel adapters on each end of the original Greddy oil feed line I believe it is PTFE, so likely wouldn't cause an issue with most Greddy installs. It was my bad for making a noob mistake and choosing a rubber oil feed line.
Third install was a charm. I've been driving the car around this week on the old tune while I've been sorting out the final tasks before getting a new tune dialled in.
Task list:
- WGA arm needs to be modified to latch onto the IWG lever. Hoping to sort this out in the weekend.
- MazdaEdit decided I needed a software upgrade before it will load again, and the download link on their website is broken so I have no ME currently. Should be sorted in a few days (thanks for assistance Brettus).
- Injector upgrade. Flow testing of uncapped yellows is booked for Monday the 22nd.
The injector solution that Brettus and I are working on is yellow P1s, yellow P2s and uncapped yellow Secondaries.
According to local guys uncapping injectors is crazy, but since it's been done successfully before I'll be giving it a go. I figure if the spray patern is good and the flow rates of the uncapped injectors are a close match it'll be fine. Uncapped injectors need to be flow tested as their flow rates vary between injectors. I'll be testing 4 yellow uncapped injectors and choosing the two with the closest flow rates.
- Injector upgrade. Flow testing of uncapped yellows is booked for Monday the 22nd.
The injector solution that Brettus and I are working on is yellow P1s, yellow P2s and uncapped yellow Secondaries.
According to local guys uncapping injectors is crazy, but since it's been done successfully before I'll be giving it a go. I figure if the spray patern is good and the flow rates of the uncapped injectors are a close match it'll be fine. Uncapped injectors need to be flow tested as their flow rates vary between injectors. I'll be testing 4 yellow uncapped injectors and choosing the two with the closest flow rates.
The uncapped injectors i tested were within 0.5% of eachother (800ccs pulse flowed at 45psi vs 450 for stock yellows) . The spray pattern is said to be quite good too .
That's good feedback, I wasn't expecting results to be that close. $40 per injector to test so I'll just uncap and test two injectors initially. Can always uncap and test a few more if the variation is more than a few %.
Will hopefully have a log for you mid next week. While AFRs are fine under load, the rough idle is killing me. Can't wait to get a new tune on there!
I understand the position you are in using uncapped injectors and not here to say I'm against it. I did it and I had good results with mine for the most part. Ultimately I had fueling issues which I am fairly convinced was a bad injector or 2, but not necessarily due to uncapping. That said I love my ID1000's. Rock solid and great results. After considering more yellows, uncapping, flow testing, etc., I figured I could put that money towards ID1000's and glad I did. No disrespect, just sharin'
I don't see the point of uncapped injectors unless you can't get proper sized injectors due to location. But the 1000cc injectors we got from Five O were only $100.00 a piece.
I've tuned several cars with ID1000s and whilst they worked ok , I found they didn't flow anywhere near what they should have when put in the traditional p2 position . This went the same for uncapped yellows as well .
Recently I accidently switched my uncapped yellows into secondary position and discovered that they flowed what they actually should flow in that position . I guess it would be the same for ID 1000s . I suspect that the way the injectors are staged does not lend itself to fitting large injectors into p2 .
Anyone else noticed the same phenomenon ?
12-20-2015, 08:38 PM
