Okay here is the thread that will prove if the Canzoomer unit is actually doing anything.

When the canzoomer unit arrived I installed it into my car with maurices canzoomer map stage 1.
The results I got from the dyno were not what I was expecting.
The unit had actually dropped my horsepower by 20. This was right throughout the RPM range.
Dyno HP resuts here (http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47692)
Dyno torque results here (http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47693)
Please note runs 1+2 are with canzoomer unit
Please note runs 3+4 are stock ecu

I removed the unit and opted for a unichip. The unit was tuned to the car on the rolling road. An addtional 7HP was found. This was right at the top of the RPM range.
Still to post the dyno, no scanner setup at the moment, sorry.

Then after looking through the threads I found a modification that canzoomer had issued, I think it is called the ignition mod. Basically clipping two capacitors off the daughter board contained within the unit.

I did this, uninstalled the unichip, and put the canzoomer unit back into the car.
The car was a lot livelier than I remebered with the unit in before trhis mod.
Next I wanted to give the unit the best chance of gaining horse power so after looking at a few maps that you guys have made I chose one. PrObers map. The car sounded a bit meatier than the unichip setup.

After the map was in the car for about a day the engine management light came on. After interregating the system it was found to be a misfire error code. I cleared the code and have been running with the map with no further adverse effects.

The car was meant to be dynoed on friday morning but that has changed to thursday morning now Thursday being 5th May.

Just wondering if any one else has found a slight hesitation when using PrObers map in the low rev range? Any advice on how to fix this?
The map is located here (http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=31717)

Below 5400 rpms its completely stock.

if you are talking about the hesitation around the 6k area in my map its the ignition timing I took out because I run lower octane (our mid grade gas) and wanted a very safe map (there is a rather large a/f ratio spike around then from intake ports opening)... I doubt you would have any problems if you would make the "3100" - "3300" (remember thats really 6200-6600 rpms) values equal to 4.

Other then that I never had any hesitation with it (and it seems our latest N Flash actually smoothed that area out for me).


It would be nice to see what the a/f ratios look like on your car with it... perhaps take it through the rev range in third gear once and log the a/f ratio with a Canscan if you have one available

I can do this for you but tellme how to log the data, I havent played with the software that much, I can get it real time but not discovered how to log the data.
First question, is this done through the greddy pakage or the canscan

The hesitation seems to come about with cold car 3-45000 rpm.
a little jerky when more than approx 50% throttle, not noticeable if I take it a bit easier.
With a warm car it seems to be 4th gear or higher low rpm pickup, eg 2000-4000rpm then the car jumps into life.

well as i said earlier (and you can see by the map) everything should be acting like stock below 5400 rpms, so I'm not sure why you would be noticing a difference that low in the rpms

Just a brief description of logging - open the CANscan program and get it to connect, click on Multivew from the menubar. In the multiview screen you should be able to choose up to 6 things to log - as a minimum you should grab rpms, the a/f ratio (the one that gives you the actual ratio not voltage), throttle position, and ignition timing. In the bottom left you need to select how many parameters you have and how often to sample (.1 sec is good). When your ready to record data, hit the button to start (you'll see the live views) and when your finished hit the save button and name the .txt file.

If you know how to you Excel, you should be able to import the file into a spreadsheet form and make a graph of it (ignition & a/f ratio vs rpms at 100% throttle would be good)

Most of this is better explained in the "CZ Tuning for Dummies" thread in this forum .

Cheers for the info will try it out tomorrow. :D

Okay here are a few things that can be added to this thread about tuning the cz unit.
I have found out that some of us are running the cz with capacitors on the ign board and some have been clipped off.
Also some of us are running with the cz unit wired to the half rpm mode and the others are running with the cz unit running wired to the full rpm mode.

I was running prObers map, which by his own decleration is a half rpm map.
With this map I was finding hesitation through 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears. All where the ecu should have been stock. 2000-4500 rpm.

This was causing havoc with the ecu, the mil light kept flashing as if trying to correct something, then came on constantly. This happened twice. After interigating the system I found that the same error was getting thrown up all the time.

After inspection of my cz unit the rpm mode was wired to the full rpm.

Installed the cz stage two map and the car seems to be running alot better.

Again the dyno is scheduled for thursday morning and I will find out if it is working and giving power gains.

Question for all CZ Tuners, would a half rpm map be uncompatable if the unit is wired up for full rpm??

If the unit works and gives some gains then I will tune it specifically to my car and my setup.

After this is acheived I am going to try and write up a how to tune your CZ Unit to your RX8. This is for the dummies like me who are new to this ecu tuning. It should be written so it is easily understood and should solve all the problems with the CZ Unit. Please note that by no way am I qualified to do this but It will be my goal to find out from the people in the know and bring all this knowledge together in one thread.

Hopefully it should help out the novices amongst us.

Half rpm map will not work for full rpm cz unit.

Half rpm map with half rpm unit
When the map (half rpm) said 3000 rpm. the half rpm unit will mod the 6000 rpm

Full/half Rpm map with full rpm unit
When the map (half rpm) said 3000 rpm. the full rpm unit will mod the 3000 rpm

please refer to http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=855461&postcount=143

and the how to tune your CZ Unit please refer to
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=42912&page=1&pp=15

they also talk about full rpm and half rpm different

Also some of us are running with the cz unit wired to the half rpm mode and the others are running with the cz unit running wired to the full rpm mode.

I was running prObers map, which by his own decleration is a half rpm map.
With this map I was finding hesitation through 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears. All where the ecu should have been stock. 2000-4500 rpm.

This was causing havoc with the ecu, the mil light kept flashing as if trying to correct something, then came on constantly. This happened twice. After interigating the system I found that the same error was getting thrown up all the time.

After inspection of my cz unit the rpm mode was wired to the full rpm.

Installed the cz stage two map and the car seems to be running alot better.

Again the dyno is scheduled for thursday morning and I will find out if it is working and giving power gains.

Question for all CZ Tuners, would a half rpm map be uncompatable if the unit is wired up for full rpm??



Well that explains a lot now...

To get my map to work or any half scal map you would need to double the rpm's on the map columns. Other then that they would be fine.

Watch that you check the ign board. Some version from around Apr/may 04 had no caps...but needed more diodes. see attached picture for newest revision an the full/half rpm fix

I have just clipped the caps off, it was already the same as what you sent me, it was connected for full rpm from canzoomer.

What I am looking for is an aggresive map to try out on the canzoomer unit, one that is meant to give big gains. I can use 95-98 octane fuel as standard so no issues there.
Does anyone have a working aggresive map.
Hopefully get this before dyno time, so that I can try both.

Car setup:- Reamimeya header
R Magic High Flowcat
Ogura lightened flywheel
Ogura racing clutch
Custom cat back setup
CZ unit
Free flow Blitz copy universal air filter

I can't help you..I have changed the setup on mine...so they wouldn't work. After this weekend we may have a normal CZ map for you to try....

I have installed cz stage 2 full rpm map for the dyno run.
Just wanting an aggresive type map to try as well.

Can anyone access that tryannical website, I have never been able to access the thing, that is why I was going to write up my findings.

site is down...and Jason hasn't been around much?

Nemisis had an old copy on his server...link was posted last couple of days



http://www.hausers.com/nemesis8/Tyrannical%20-%20Canzoomer%20(Stage%201)%20setup%20and%20install %20for%20the%20RX-8.htm

http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=855461&postcount=143
the link is in this post (above url)

try this web site... It is from Jason and thanks to Nemisis to host it


fixed

well it would be nice if the link worked. Just like tyrannical. Page cannot be displayed

sorry :)

fixed, check the post above

Many Thanks for th link, this is what I've been looking for.
:)

I was thinking (if you didn't already do it) you should pull the battery cable off and pump the brakes a couple of times to reset the computer as it probably tried to learn something screwed up from my map

Okay I have read through Jason's Page.
Extremely helpful, BUT it doesn't explain about advance and retared timing.
Would one of you Gurus who I have come to depend upon like to throw a little light on this subject.
Jason says that the higher the number in the airflow chart the less fuel you use. Fine I get that. The leaner the more power.
But what does the advance retard do? When do I know when to alter this?
You guys are really on the ball with the RX8's across there.
Here in Scotland, you buy one, then have to run it stock from Mazda. No rotary tuners across here, which means no soddin help.
Many Thanks to you guys for helping me out on this subject.

Advance your timing will increase the chances to get detonation if bad gas is used (low octane).

Since myself also dunno the answer to "What is the advantages of advancing the timing?", I mod only the Air flow map only using Stage II based Map (leave the ignition map alone for my case).
In addition, I will try to target the ignition adv showed on canscan at 30 degree like stock map.
When the engine detacted there is possibility on detonation, it will retarded the ignition adv

check this out.
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=53453&page=3&pp=15

Btw I am not sure about the leaner the A/F, the more the power it produce
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=53891&page=3&pp=15 (post 33-34)
when the car hit 206, the A/F only 12.4 ... I am still in the experiment stage. and btw currently I am waitiing to get my canscan repaired

hav fun with tunning.

I may have stumbled across the answer on a ford forum, Increase advance the peak torque moves down the RPM range.
Increase retard add more top end speed.
It seems like a trade off. You get more grunt at the cost of top end speed if the engine is advanced.
You get more top end speed and less grunt if it is retarded.
Hope this helps and if anyone wants to correct me on this feel free. Like I said it was on a ford website.

Just a quick thought about the target Air fuel ratio.
If Trying to achieve target air fuel will this not mean that the car is running at optium fuel economy. If trying to acheive max power the car would need to run richer. More fuel to burn more power.
Again pls feel free to comment on this, if I am wrong then pls say so.

:) thanks for sharing.

My future experiment
I am thinking to tune my map to get 13.2 -13.5 (a/f) around 6k->7.4k then 12.4 -12.6 (a/f) for 7.5k -> 8.6k.

I will start tuning again next week (hope to get my canscan this thursday)

honestly, if you can get good gas just aim for a 13.5 a/f ratio and leave the ignition map alone as it works pretty damn good (except I would still zero out the first column to avoid the engine feeling rough at lower rpms)

Many Thanks for th link, this is what I've been looking for.
:)

Your welcome ;)

Okay hopefully this will end the debate on wither this unit works or not.
The results are in.
Just wondering if we are all in agreement of what a stock RX8 will dyno at.
In the cases I have seen it looks like 210-215HP at the flywheel.
If we agree on this then I will move forward.
A RX8 with stock ecu and cat removed will dyno at 220HP at the flywheel. This I know I can prove this.
A RX8 with unichip tuned to the car and cat removed will dyno at 227HP at the flywheel. This again I can prove.
A RX8 with canzoomer stage 1 without the board modifications been done will dyno at 20 HP less than stock setup. Again I can prove this as well.
A RX8 with canzoomer stage 2 map with board modifications done and a high flow cat installed, no cat is very smelly, will dyno at.......wait for it............wait...............wait............. ......a well you'll need to keep your eye on this space. Will post results tonight in the form of my dyno sheet.
Please note that the same dyno was used in all my testing.
Again please note that all dyno readings are given as FLYWHEEL POWER.
This has been acheived by measuring the run down and calculating losses and adding them back onto the wheel power. I didn't make this program up the tuning company did. They say it is very accurate, as carlsberg says, probably the most accurate dyno in the world. They also have said that a stock car producing 198HP was measured at 198.3HP on their dyno. I think this is pretty accurate. Dont flame me, not my dyno, not my dyno mechanic, not my dyno software.

I think the part that makes me laugh the most is..........

"A RX8 with canzoomer stage 1 without the board modifications done will dyno at 20 HP less than stock setup. Again I can prove this as well."

I would put " a Stage 1 CZ unit modified for full RPM use....with a half RPM Map...that kicked the shit out of the PCM in the car......." :D

I wish you luck on your dyno.....Want to see the results. Hope you get some good gains

I would put " a Stage 1 CZ unit modified for full RPM use....with a half RPM Map...that kicked the shit out of the PCM in the car......."
:o
This is also true but I cannot prove that lol.
You'll have to take my word on that one. :D

Hey I'll try anything, if you say red cars go faster then I'm off to the spray shop. :)

If installing four springs and tying a duck to the back will give me an extra 10hp
then here goes!!! :confused:
......................it worked for the germans, four sprung duck technique, Audi to be exact.
:D
As long as my network works tonight the results will be posted. If not it will be tomorrow.

can not wait to see the results. Good luck.

I'd venture to guess the results were pretty good since we see no flaming remarks/posts :p

Setup
Canzoomer stage one map unmodified board, custom back boxes and cat removed.

Please note runs 1 + 2 are canzoomer on
3 + 4 canzoomer off

Setup
Cat out, custom back boxes stock ecu.
Run 2 same as above but unichip installed.

Setup
Air filter blitz copy universal, Reamaimeya header, custom back boxes, R-magic high flow cat, yes the cats back, Ogura lightened flywheel and uprated clutch.
Oh yes canzoomer installed board modified and stage 2 full rpm map.
Both runs are on this setup.

SO: did it work :D

yip it did. This is my official apology to Mr. Canzoomer, who I very quickly jumped on the band wagon and said his product did not work. Very sorry Maurice. You have done a good job with your unit. Looks like I got about 25-20HP increase. Remember it is untuned to my specific car, just his standard stage two map.

Good on you.....good to see that it worked on your car. Now get to tuning...should get a few more under the curve from a custom tune :D

awesome... congrats and keep tuning!!

Does anyone understand what is happening between 6000-7000RPM. Big dip in curve in the torque map.

Please post ur A/F graph for the dyno. It might caused by too lean or too rich at the rpm range.

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=24649&highlight=S-DAIS check out this link. It might help u to figure it out since there is another Tertiary intake ports open (6250 rpm)

according to the dyno results he was able to make his uk spec 228 hp rx8 make the us spec 238(ish) numbers

Here is my afr graph
:cool: :) ;)

according to the dyno results he was able to make his uk spec 228 hp rx8 make the us spec 238(ish) numbers

Not to be cheeky, but I have yet to see convincing evidence that the US Spec car makes 238 HP.

I thought Mazda orginally speced all RX8's at the 240 mark then dropped the spec to 228HP.

The UK version, I think is exactly the same as the US version, apart from the spark plugs. The "Mazda Speed" spark plugs that Canzoomer sells are actually standard in the UK RX's.

Nice work great result :D hopefully i will get the Australian canzoomer version up and running those figures shortly , as the forum members here are also knocking the canzoomer unit saying 20 - 25 hp is not possible .

cheers
michael

Hi Mcpheeg,

would you try to smooth out the A/F for the 6.2k rpm -> 6.4 k rpm? Btw I am not sure u want to dyno it again soon.

I am not sure it help to smooth out the tq or not

Do you think the map is too lean???? :eek:

I would add back a bit from 7500-8500 area..a bit lean there. No pinging?

How would I detect pinging??

Please note this is still canzoomers stage 2 full rpm map.

I havent changed anything on it yet

There is not universal map for every 8, I think you can add more fuel in to prevent the long term trim kick in (for 7.5k->8.5k).

and what exactly does that mean?????

if the ECU found out it is too lean and it might caused detonation, the ecu wil retarted the timing or will inject more gas in to prevent detonation.

if this continue to happen, the ecu might use Long term fuel trim to fix the prob. it means that the ecu will rich up the mixture again (by modify the fuel map). You can always reset the battery to reset the long term fuel trim

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=49665&page=4&pp=15 (check out what cansoomer said)

You really don't add fuel with this setup...all you do is take away less. The PCM already will add more than enough :D

Adjust the WOT line at the RPM you want and make the #'s smaller, and you will take away less fuel IE: change a 23 to a 17......

I'm Lost In Space.....

What happened to Holley 850 Double Pumpers, Crane Fireball 515 Lift, 302 Duration Cam Shafts.... And "Q" Code Intake Valves on.....

OK, sorry.... Back to the thread :)

oh.. ya. my mistake. sorry ... :P

modified ur airflow map. lower then number like dennobre suggested.

OK, I'm starting over...

I'm Lost In Space.....

What happened to Holley 850 Double Pumpers, Crane Fireball 515 Lift, 302 Duration Cam Shafts.... And "Q" Code Intake Valves on.....

OK, sorry.... Back to the thread :)
Kinda like this...only with NOs :D

Nice work great result :D hopefully i will get the Australian canzoomer version up and running those figures shortly , as the forum members here are also knocking the canzoomer unit saying 20 - 25 hp is not possible .

cheers
michael

just cut the gains by 1/4 and slap a racing beat sticker on it and everyone will worship it....

...ok that was just bad :cool:

Still waiting for an answer as to what pinging is and how to detect it??? :o

i never had my car ping (official name - detonation), but it would sound like popcorn popping under your hood... the knock sensor should pick it up before it reaches that point and richen the mix and pull timing out to prevent it

Here is my afr graph
:cool: :) ;)


In Excel, change the scale of your AFR. Double click on the axis and go to scale, type in min of 11 and max of 15, then repost this. It will give you better resolution as to what is going on. Like this on mine attached.

As Requested zoomed in to see even closer what is happening :D

As Requested zoomed in to see even closer what is happening :D

Woah! That's what I thought - you need to add fuel on the those lean spots.

...Reamaimeya header...

:eek: How do you like the header?? How is the sound level??