The purpose of this thread is to freely exchange accessport maps. I finally got all my stuff organized last night while helping out one of our new forum members who's trying to scale his maf with baseline, so I'll get the ball rolling.

A few preliminary remarks are in order. I've discovered that a difference exists between the 04-05 racetuner software and the 06-08 software. The difference is easily overcome though. The maps in 04-05 are larger. Where mine stops at, say, 1 percent load, the 04-05 continues to 1.25.

All you need to do if you have 04-05 and you're looking at an 06-08 map is extend the trend. and likewise, if you have an 06-08 and you're looking at an 04-05 is use only the portion you need.

It's not a big deal. Example below. What you see here is the main ignition table in 04-05 racetuner. The red areas are what's been changed. The highlighted area is an example of extending the trend. So an ignition table from 06-08 is copied here and extended in racetuner 04-05.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c157/myriads/updatedleadingignition.jpg

This is the method you will follow. I will upload 06-08 maps in .csv format. You will copy them and paste them in the corresponding map in racetuner using "cntrl-v" from the upper left hand corner, and then you will follow the trends on your own. It won't matter, you're not hitting 1.25 percent load. 06-08 folks obviously don't need to worry about this trending stuff. just copy and paste from the upper left.

Next post has the map i'll be sharing.

This is not intended to replace a pro tune. But if you're waiting for one, this might be fun in the mean time. ;)

This is for MT.

Change your rev limit from 9000 to somewhere between 9100 and 9200, or higher if you're okay with that.

Change your fans from 207 to 199 or thereabout.

open the attached files. Paste them in the corresponding places in racetuner. flash and go.

maf calibration (very close to stock) (http://www.mediafire.com/?yy4dyfhzzty)
leading ignition main (http://www.mediafire.com/?yy4dyfhzzty)
trailing ignition main (http://www.mediafire.com/?zvmlyjjnjzu)
oil metering load based (http://www.mediafire.com/?zkymmmoymxu)
fuel map 1-3 green line (http://www.mediafire.com/?4b04yzzevuo)
fuel map 1-3 blue line (http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=9e7517e4ab18f6b519747bd91027d4dd489f43ad 9d6cff74)

folder with all of the above: all files are in .xlsx format (http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=9e7517e4ab18f6b519747bd91027d4dd489f43ad 9d6cff74)

that should get it started. enjoy! :icon_tup:
also post reviews.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c157/myriads/afrload4u.jpg

if you get a persistent rough idle, try changing the idle maps from high 800s to low 900s, not much.

weird, 50 views, 10 downloads ... and no feedback.

people just take take take.

I can look at Yer Tunz thredz?


Very cool myriadshalaks, Thank you for sharing this info with the community :)

Hey what was the pic of? Post Baseline MAF scaling all finished up?

the pic is of what the two different fuel maps do with everything else the same.

the maf scale is stock *.98 or close to it. should be universal enough that people can scale their own mafs further with baseline if they want.

I need to get involved in this, but I am simply too busy with allot of other projects right now. Glad to finally see an open source for AP tuning coming to the masses.

Kudos to you and Kane!

the pic is of what the two different fuel maps do with everything else the same.

the maf scale is stock *.98 or close to it. should be universal enough that people can scale their own mafs further with baseline if they want.

So same MAF scale just different fuel maps.... nice.


Can you do one of those target vs actual AFR graphs?

i've already done those in Kane Tune's my car. On my car, it runs about 8 percent leaner than expected in the upper rpms at WOT. but that's accounted for in both fuel maps.

if someone runs this tune, they'll likely want what I assume will be an individualized maf scale from baseline to get to where i am now, about 3-5 percent leaner than expected at WOT in the upper rpms.

I'm hoping here to find out how universal tunes are with the rx8. I figure if people run this tune with similar mods as me, they should get the same results.

And I'd like to see what others are doing with their tunes and how that goes in terms of results.

I take what I've provided here to be a sort of good starting point for working with baseline if desired. It'll make it more fun. I mean, who wants to spend time maf tuning NA if they're not going to see some extra ponies?

This is a relatively conservative performance tune for NA 8s to get things rolling. But you already know that since you wrote the majority of it. ;)

Hopefully we'll see some other people's maps on here too.

So wait - your 8% lean after you scaled your maf in Baseline???

That seems bass ackwrds - since scaling it would fix the leanness.

no no. now i'm around 3-5 percent leaner than expected at WOT after using baseline -- 1.01 average m-value for all of engine data.

the map posted here is the first tune on my car from sarasota. the blue line in the picture above represents the fuel map you wrote, the green line is the one i wrote.

This maf scale is the first one from baseline in Sarasota. Most of the m-values i got then were .98, so i believe what i did was just multiply the whole stock scale by .98.

the blue line is stock. the red line is the maf scale posted above.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c157/myriads/Untitled.jpg

Very kewl myriad, thanks for sharing.

I'll give this a try, but I won't be able to get to it until this weekend.

I'm also going to give Kane's Baseline application another shot. I spent a little time with it a little while ago and well I got confused and didn't have the time to figure it out.

I would like to ask, how different is the AT tune besides the rev limiter? Since the 06+ AT has the same engine and ports, we could technically use your MT map with the AT right?

This is pretty much just a thought, as I would get my AP from MM with the AT tune anyways.

i'm not sure about how this would work with AT.

having maps from mm is cool,. but you can't see what's he's changed, and it's fun to have other maps too.

i'm not sure about how this would work with AT.

having maps from mm is cool,. but you can't see what's he's changed, and it's fun to have other maps too.

Yeah but I'm limited to the AT tunes, which apparently only he provides. I would love to be able to buy a used AP for much cheaper and use your free tune, but I don't think it would work =p

i don't know if it would or not. i defer to someone more qualified to answer.

but my hunch is that it would work on the 6port. but i'm not sure enough to give you the green light.

ask kane.

Very kewl myriad, thanks for sharing.

I'll give this a try, but I won't be able to get to it until this weekend.

I'm also going to give Kane's Baseline application another shot. I spent a little time with it a little while ago and well I got confused and didn't have the time to figure it out.

cool man. let us know how it goes.

if you have confusions with the baseline, I'll be happy to help out if i can. shoot me a pm.

i don't know if it would or not. i defer to someone more qualified to answer.

but my hunch is that it would work on the 6port. but i'm not sure enough to give you the green light.

ask kane.

Well no, I wouldn't do it myself. Again, I'm going with MM's auto-tune when I have the money. Once I see what that does, and once I have the AP in my own hands, perhaps I can shed some light onto this matter. However, I only brought it up as a discussion point, especially since this thread is about a "universal" tune. Insofar as I've seen, the AT 06+ (and even the AT 04-05) RX-8 can handle generally what the MTs can handle. Of course, the AT's transmission is different, but changing the engine map to provide more fuel efficiency or more baseline power wouldn't kill the transmission. And several members has already removed their limited to 9000 and not suffered much. So it makes me think, your universal should really transcend AT/MT boundaries (at least theoretically).

I'd love to see a lot more people discuss this =p

I have an 2004 AT Tune on my computer...

If the individual who provided me the stock map *cough* Glen *cough* wishes to provide how he got it then you can do that and use Baseline. I thought you could always pull the stock map though on the AP.... I forget how he eventually figured it out.


And yeah - the maps do look remarkably similar. However; unlike the HPTuners (GM) flasher - this one doesn't seem to have tranny control (shift points etc).... so I dunno about tuning that kind of stuff.

i don't know if it would or not. i defer to someone more qualified to answer.

but my hunch is that it would work on the 6port. but i'm not sure enough to give you the green light.

ask kane.

A 6port MT map should work on a 6port AT. I say should because the map dosen't have any shift points in it Like Kane mentioned above. That's handled by the Transmission Control Module.
Unless there is some hidden line of code that looks for the TCM.

Great thread myriadshalaks! Sharing FTW!

good idea . although I can't read your timing map ....

Just found this. Are we keeping this thread NA? Should we have a tread entitled "I can haz Twerbeux AP Mapz, plz? kthxbye!" ?

As for the scaling issue, you can set those axes to anything you want, just as long as you have all the columns and rows populated. Now, whether you use the correct or relevant numbers is another thing altogether. All i am pointing out is that you should feel free to change the numbers in the axes if you wish. Dont feel beholden to the stock intervals.

good idea . although I can't read your timing map ....
but you can read everything else? weird. has anyone else had that problem?

i just downloaded to a different computer, not the one i uploaded from, and it works.

this one? also there's a picture of the 04-06 version in the first post. lmk if you mean the trailing.

Wait. So how do I enter in the fuel map? All the fuel maps for my 04 MT have a peak value of 1.00. I have no way to enter in 14.7, 12.1, and so forth? Or am I just missing something painfully obvious?

change to standard values

in racetuner
click edit > configure

and copy and paste using cntrl v works. so you have it or make it in excel, then copy it into racetuner. waaay easier.

Your best bet is to exchange data in CSV format so people can build their own from the data.

i put them in excel. folks should be able to change the values.

what's it like when people are downloading from the links?

When I download them on every computer i've tried, i get an excel file that pulls right up and is comma separated. It looks just like the maps in AP. They can be copied and pasted directly.

They can also so be changed.

but yeah, i definitely would like to see some others' maps too. ;) maybe some of yours.

cool man. let us know how it goes.

if you have confusions with the baseline, I'll be happy to help out if i can. shoot me a pm.

Thanks myriad...
Ive got a couple of projects this weekend, one of which is trying out a 75 shot.

I'm trying hard to teach myself about tuning a rotary engine, I just hope it happens before I blow a motor.

Your best bet is to exchange data in CSV format so people can build their own from the data.

HEY, any news on your next AP Training webinar?

HEY, any news on your next AP Training webinar?

Probably the week of the 20th. I'll announce new dates this week.

Thanks myriad...
Ive got a couple of projects this weekend, one of which is trying out a 75 shot.

I'm trying hard to teach myself about tuning a rotary engine, I just hope it happens before I blow a motor.

with a 75 shot, it might not be long before you blow something. lol. keep us updated.



-------------------------
So the downloads are working fine? there was confusion because of the pic i posted, right?

once again, the maps can be downloaded from the links in post 2 and opened with excel.

to all, please use a similar format when uploading your maps for us to see. hint hint.

kthx

^^^I have had some guidance towards this 75 shot.
Baby steps dude

I'm not going to go on a long rant on how Ray and Jeff have been epic in there assistance but .... nufff said... (and Easy_E1 FIRE IN THE HOLE BRO!)
Kane has also help me in coil problem times (thanks) but now its time that I start out on my own.
The problem is ..... I know enough ...... but not enough... if you get what I'm saying.

My car runs awesome with Jeff's tune, but I want to be able to do that as well.
(the reason why I'm interested in his webinar course)

I'm seriously at the point where I'm thinking about going turbo and I have the realization that there is no shops around that can do it.

I'm going to run 75 (I believe I can) for the summer.
Come the winter, all things working well (meaning my job) I"m going to buy a turbo.
I will switch my nitrous kit over to a spray (CO2?) for the inter cooler.

End game is I want to be able to tune the car myself, understanding however that I will need the guidance of those that have already tavelled the path.

Unlike others myriad I don't post much unless I can add to the thread.
I hope ...... I can add soon. Till then I'm a reader, however I will post my results of your maps come Monday. :)

Thanks for posting the info so i could build a map. I had no clue what i was doing in the begining but i worked through it. It was a fun thing to do while i'm waiting for my custom map from MM. Keep the info flowing!

cool, tireman. let us know how it goes.

wow, wcs. sounds like you're just a little ahead of me. i've got my eye on a nitrous kit now, and i hope to go turbo in the next couple years.

maybe we can figure this tuning stuff out by then.

you think mm will let us groupbuy his webinar? heh.

^^^LOL maybe ...
However I've already paid, just anxiously awaiting the next start date!!!!
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=173014&page=4

anyone had any success adjusting the "accelerator pump" map . I've played with it a little but it does not seem to have the desired result .
I still get a lean spike when I mash the throttle and the turbo spools up ....

Do you have one map - or one for every two gears, etc...?

(EDIT! I thought you were talking about a different table)

My plan, once I get there, is to first have someone else in the car and use the cursor tracing function on the ATR software and see if the table is accessed at all. Then scale the RPMs out and the points WAY rich and back off to taste.

I also bet that the numbers there are mistakenly put to be AFRs. I bet they are % modifiers.

Having said that, I know not of what I spakeith.

Do you have one map - or one for every two gears, etc...?

I have 3 maps but I suspect that only one does anything - just like my main fueling maps .
Should I be putting a number greater than 1 in all the cells ?

I have 3 maps but I suspect that only one does anything - just like my main fueling maps .


??

If I adjust my main fueling maps for gears 3-4 and not 5-6, I get different results in the different sets of gears. What year do you have?

And you see numbers near one? Interesting. I see AFRs (in standard units.)

??

If I adjust my main fueling maps for gears 3-4 and not 5-6, I get different results in the different sets of gears. What year do you have?

And you see numbers near one? Interesting. I see AFRs (in standard units.)

Only one of my fueling maps does anything - mine is an 03 . MM insists that this is impossible but this is what I have .

can you post what your acc pump table looks like Carbon - so I can check i'm looking at the right table .

Brettus - the maps are in AFR on the AP - so the higher you raise the number - the leaner you will go if your is in Lambda....

Is this the right map ? I have tried adjusting all the values to the right of 3000 down to .91 on all 3 maps but this did nothing

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s255/brettus_rx8/accpump.jpg

How do we upload .csv files???


BTW all my fuel pump maps are the same at the moment/ Honestly, I figure you would want them richer the shorter the gear.




http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=142033&d=1247339658

/\ that is the same map but yours is in AFR and mine is in lambda . Have your tried adjusting this map at all ?

I have played with it, but as I was messing with several other things; I not sure that what I saw was a result of this table.

I would guess that this table either modifies as a percentage, or is superceded by, the fuel tables. THat means that if you dont reach a certain abount of fuel that is alread dictated by the fuel table, you will not access this table. What I will bedoing to figure this out if someone doesn't beat me to it, is to put something stupid rich in a single or small set of cells, and then datalog throttle dc and AFR. From that start you can back down until you get what you want.

here is the issue : note the big lean spike after each gear change ....


http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s255/brettus_rx8/leanspikeacc.jpg

I know it works Brettus - I've bogged a few down on accel with 'em.

I know it works Brettus - I've bogged a few down on accel with 'em.

what numbers did you use to get a decent result ?

I'll let you know when I get a really smooth one.

Right now they are in the 12.3 range.

Cheers
I'm thinking that the 5500 column does all the range above that rpm - sound about right ?

Throttle delta that those higher RPM aren't going to amount to much since the engine is already singing... so yeah I'll buy off on that.

How do we upload .csv files???


use the mediafire like i did.

you can try changing them to .doc, but it might not work.

Meh. I think it is time I organized my web page. Or get one only for personal use.

Brettus, if I'm not mistaken, that map isn't for an accelerator pump( yours is in lambda) , it's the main fueling table for the given gear( hence 3 tables) up to 5500 rpm. Above that it switches to load based or under certain circumstances. YOu should be able to see your AFR change according to this table and conditions ( like below 5.5 k) and when your not in closed loop.

With that being said, I am wanting to look into Fuel tip-in (accelerator pump)... Isn't this mapped in the AP?

this? there's a-d and max

Brettus, if I'm not mistaken, that map isn't for an accelerator pump( yours is in lambda) , it's the main fueling table for the given gear( hence 3 tables) up to 5500 rpm. Above that it switches to load based or under certain circumstances. YOu should be able to see your AFR change according to this table and conditions ( like below 5.5 k) and when your not in closed loop.

With that being said, I am wanting to look into Fuel tip-in (accelerator pump)... Isn't this mapped in the AP?

hmmm - you could be right there as i can't seem to get the desired result with it .

this? there's a-d and max

there are 4 maps like that (neutral , 1/2 3/4 and 5/6) - they are the throttle position maps not the acc. pump maps .

so ap doesn't map acc pump. or ... i don't see it in mine.

the maps labelled 'accelerator pump' in pro tuner are the one i posted (+2 others) but they don't seem to do that function at all .

what are they labelled in the AP ?

Brettus, I think I mentioned before that I got some results from playing with these maps. Doesn't help I know but my DEC 04 car responds top them.

Brettus, I think I mentioned before that I got some results from playing with these maps. Doesn't help I know but my DEC 04 car responds top them.

what results did you get ?

If anyone Wants to buy a Cobb ap I have a brand new one for sale let me me know

what results did you get ?
Nothing exciting as I haven't played to much. Just that I could make it go richer if I wanted to.

the maps labelled 'accelerator pump' in pro tuner are the one i posted (+2 others) but they don't seem to do that function at all .

what are they labelled in the AP ?

oh, the throttle fuel maps. i have 1-3 and 4-6. mine look pretty lean.

oh, the throttle fuel maps. i have 1-3 and 4-6. mine look pretty lean.

I think you may remember RB's comment amount Mazda doing as much as they can to help fuel mileage, I beleive this is what they are refering to. Most of our cruise driving is going to be under 5500, and with these TPS based maps, and other parameters, we stay in closed loop alot, unless over 5500, or 100% tps.

I think you will find, unless someone changed their *Throttle based maps*, if you watch logs of afr and rpm ( like dyno runs), they will be lean under 5k, even with a properly tuned Load based map.

Also, I know tip-in as ( accel pump ), that map labeled tipin appears to just be a positioning map. Also odd, my table runs up to 9k for position.

And now that I look, those throttle fueling maps only go to 4k? mine run to 5500...

Nothing exciting as I haven't played to much. Just that I could make it go richer if I wanted to.

OK - but richer under what circumstances . Cruise , load or tip in ?

I think you may remember RB's comment amount Mazda doing as much as they can to help fuel mileage, I beleive this is what they are refering to. Most of our cruise driving is going to be under 5500, and with these TPS based maps, and other parameters, we stay in closed loop alot, unless over 5500, or 100% tps.

I think you will find, unless someone changed their *Throttle based maps*, if you watch logs of afr and rpm ( like dyno runs), they will be lean under 5k, even with a properly tuned Load based map.

Also, I know tip-in as ( accel pump ), that map labeled tipin appears to just be a positioning map. Also odd, my table runs up to 9k for position.

And now that I look, those throttle fueling maps only go to 4k? mine run to 5500...

i dunno, man. i dip into the high 12s around 4400. i thought open loop ends at 4000-4200.

and if you're at wot, these tables won't effect you, right? since they go by throttle position and only go up to 84 percent.

i dunno, man. i dip into the high 12s around 4400. i thought open loop ends at 4000-4200.

and if you're at wot, these tables won't effect you, right? since they go by throttle position and only go up to 84 percent.

Is high 12's good for power in the rotary? I've been trying to run 11.9 to 12.3 on an NA. Is this too rich?

At full throttle, the PCM should start it's calculations to pull out of Closed loop... Fuel Mapping that calls for closed loop affects this process as well as other factors. If the map is still calling for CL, the other factors, ie, LOAD have to take override the fuel map parameters. I just think mapping the fuel out of CL is the first place to start exit process, then load parameters, throttle parameters, speed parameters, and so forth.

I want my car to fuel for power at full throttle no matter what. instant, not a OL/CL delay process.

I have to go back and look at which table it is, but I think 84 is actually WOT, and usually if the PCM needs a scale that goes beyond the table, it uses the last useable column or row.

Please be patient, these are just my thoughts, they could easily be wrong... I am still learning the rotary, and still working on the right mapping for the 8.

Any ideas on idle timing, 5 degrees ATDC causes a rough idle for me, does anyone have a useable idle timing table?

This is my throttle map compared to stock. I changed this when ALL my lower engine speed logs were leaner than I was mapping in the LOAD maps, this allowed me to hit the targets I was looking for at the lower engine speeds. It sped up the CL to OL transition, my runs usually started around 2500 to 3k and now when I lower the hammer at these engine speeds, I run about 11.8 - 12.3 afr instead of mid 13's it used to run until about 4500-4800. I guess in theory not much difference from high 12's you run, but the throttle mapping was more responsive in the range it covers for me.

Here again, I am still learning, be patient, and let me know what you guys think.

i think 12.5 -13.2 is where the power is for the renesis. so you're a bit rich.

everything else makes sense.

but your throttle tables are really rich compared to mine. what is that doing? seems like it would just make cruising mpg even crummier. of course, i'm not sure how this table gets into the action. So i'm worse off than you. lol.

hope i'm not thread jacking but i got a question or 2 about geting a working map in light of my new intake problems. basically I dont understand what the hell all the "table list" names mean. Right now all i'm trying to do is get a base map with a few adjustments so i can continue to drive my car like fan temp, rev limit, oil metering. then i'll try moving on to recalculating the MAF.

1) there are several fan threshold values which am i'm looking to change? *Fan 1-B* and why will Fan 1-A not go below 206? what's the deal with fan 2 why not lower them a few degrees as well and if we should whats ECT and VSS mean never mind got it

2) idle speeds: A-E whats the deal here? i would like to move the idle to somewhere around 900 to get rid of that nasty shutter sitting at a light. Is there any way i can get the idle to increase when the A/C is on and lower when the A/C is off it fills like my car is always trying to die with A/C. Why not change the warm up RPM's to somthing lower when it's cold outside. I'm guess here but isn't 1700 RPM's a bit much when the motor is dead cold in single digit weather.

3)oil metering- i see there is a change for metering in load-based why not for throttle-based also it doesn't look to me as if the load based provided by the OP is much different than stock it has always sounded like jeff made it a big deal "OIL METERING INCREASED IN ALL AREAS" and few few other remarks.

i've moved the low end of the idle to low 900s up from high 800s. gets a more stable idle, it think. i just changed any of them that had 800s.

the fans. 1A and 1B I have at 199. Fan 2 ECT is 206 (that may be stock) -- that's all i have as far as changes with the fans.

as far as the oil metering, the map i put on there just changes the low end on the load based. I'll attach the throttle based.

I burn a lot of oil now -- 1-2 quarts every other fill up or so. so.... i can't see adding much more. :dunno:

lmk if you want this in .csv.

sorry about that. this one is changed more. good catch.

i'm assuming that if rpm is rasied then all areas of rpm based mapping needs to be added right or does the ecu take over somehow and make it's own default decision? (i.e. oil metering)- if rpm is raised to 9500 then does oil metering need a 9500 table or will it default to the last value???

also i'm think about turning the fan 1 temp to 201 and fan 2 temp to 210??? maybe this will help stop the constant cycling also raise fan VSS to 15. 6 MPH in traffic is hardly a reason to turn off fan 2. Ideas remarks

it will use the last value, i think, which should be fine. so it would treat anything over 9000 as 9000 if 9000 is your last column (or row).

you can't add columns (or rows), as far as i know.

It should use the last value.

also i'm think about turning the fan 1 temp to 201 and fan 2 temp to 210??? maybe this will help stop the constant cycling also raise fan VSS to 15. 6 MPH in traffic is hardly a reason to turn off fan 2. Ideas remarks

not a good idea imo . you want all fans on full sooner rather than later

We need an open source GReddy turbo map. :)

We need an open source GReddy turbo map. :)

there are lots of maps very few of which will be the same for all the different setups ....

not a good idea imo . you want all fans on full sooner rather than later

I'm following you but I have a BHR rad and the mazmart t-stat. It seems IMHO nither keep the car cooler but are more about getting the temp down faster so my fans are constantly on, off, on, off since it's cooling so fast. It's driving me nuts. Also i'm under the impression that the rx8 functions best at around 200 and it's hard stay in that range with the fans coming on so soon. Maybe my thoughts might change after going turbo dunno.

i'm thread crapping here:D:

/\ just chage the hysteressis if you want to stop the constant cycling

i think 12.5 -13.2 is where the power is for the renesis. so you're a bit rich.

everything else makes sense.

but your throttle tables are really rich compared to mine. what is that doing? seems like it would just make cruising mpg even crummier. of course, i'm not sure how this table gets into the action. So i'm worse off than you. lol.

Thanks for the tip on the AFR's.

Well I am not 100% sure about being TOO RICH,with mostly in-town driving I get 18 to 20 MPG, as long as I don't thrash it too much. Mostly, what I am looking for is a smooth transition from CL to OL. I've been running about 16.2 for my CL, so at moderate loads, when I pop out of CL to around 13 AFR it's very noticeable, I am just aiming to make it more smooth. I come out sooner, with less abruption. ( note about RB's comments on the room fuse and O2 sesnsor). I haven't noticed any issues with the pcm's learning for O2 feedback. Open loop fueling, as far as I can tell stays strickly programmed, and not affected by any learned feedback. On the other hand, it seems to learn feedback fairly quick, but it's not concrete, after over hundreds of miles, it still hunts for Stoich, especially at startup... Sorry about the sidetrack... With your input, I will probably go back and richen it up 1/2 a point or so.

I notice when I started tuning I aimed at 12.5, and had some spikes to around 13.3 with the v-fad apv and ssv that seemed to corresponded with a loss of torque, so I aimed a little lower to be safe untill I get the spikes ironed out. But it did seem that if I kept 12.3 to 12.7 it seemed good, I just wanted to error on the safe side for lower 12's instead of high 12's.

EDIT ADDED
The PCM read 10 degrees low @ 180, and 13 degrees low @ 190. My fans come on at 179 and 187 I think, with a 170 stat. I run 180 to 190 on warm days and come off an AUTOX track as high as 205-210 ( before rescaling the coolant temp table) according to my autometer gauge.

Also, idle speed ranges from 1300 to 900 for me.

you guys got any ideas on the ignition map when using the mazsport ignition solution. Also anyone know what the to the dwell should be? I hear there is power to be gained by going to stock or similar settings when running the ignition solution on a NA car.

you guys got any ideas on the ignition map when using the mazsport ignition solution. Also anyone know what the to the dwell should be? I hear there is power to be gained by going to stock or similar settings when running the ignition solution on a NA car.
If you find out, post up here as I have been trying to fid out.
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=178635

added the throttle based oil pump map to media fire.

here's link (http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=9e7517e4ab18f6b519747bd91027d4dd489f43ad 9d6cff74)

sorry for not having this on there earlier. it was an oversight.

if you're running the others, you should flash this too.

How did you arrive at these numbers for the throttle map? I've tried to do a bit of reverse enginering on a map I have from jeff and his numbers seem to be a lot higher than what we have on the load map.

Umm just checked out the link and nothing is different from stock???

I've tried to do a bit of reverse enginering on a map I have from jeff and his numbers seem to be a lot higher than what we have on the load map.

O RLY? And which calibration might that be?

Umm just checked out the link and nothing is different from stock???

lol/ oops. you're right. i copied the stock. changing now.

well, nevermind. guess it wasn't changed. for some reason I thought it had eben changed, and it was bugging me that i didn't have the .csv of it up.

looks like there;s some room to work on that one.

carry on.

/\ yeah - do what I did : 1/2 all the values AND PREMIX !!!!

Everything is pretty much based on a % change from observed values to desired values.

Of course blowing black smoke and burning 1qt of oil in a week would be a bit overboard OMP wise........ BTDT (oops)

O RLY? And which calibration might that be?

I suppose I could say 1 of about 15

I suppose I could say 1 of about 15

Well, considering they are all:

1) Locked
2) Done in Pro, so they can't be opened in ATR
3) The copywritten intellectual property of MazdaManiac LLC

I'd say you have quite a bit of explaining to do.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c157/myriads/Avatar_24.gif

Im rick James bitch! Take that Charlie Murphy!

Well, considering they are all:

1) Locked
2) Done in Pro, so they can't be opened in ATR
3) The copywritten intellectual property of MazdaManiac LLC

I'd say you have quite a bit of explaining to do.

WOW
:worship:

WOW
:worship:

FNG go build your post count somewhere else

Jeff why is it not surprising that once again you are here with your idle threats and unwanted comments. My explanation to you is your damn copyrights are still safe so whine to someone who cares.

so did we ever figure out what was causing your too lean code? if your supercat, did we figure out how to mask it without tape?

i don't see how in atr we can mask cels. maybe i'm overlooking something?

so did we ever figure out what was causing your too lean code? if your supercat, did we figure out how to mask it without tape?

i don't see how in atr we can mask cels. maybe i'm overlooking something?

Edit > Advanced Parameters.

ah. sank oo

Jeff why is it not surprising that once again you are here with your idle threats and unwanted comments. My explanation to you is your damn copyrights are still safe so whine to someone who cares.

Not a threat, and I couldn't care less if you don't want to hear my comment.

I want to know how you opened the calibration. I'm not threatening you. I'm asking you to explain.
You've already admitted to the action, so you might as well explain it.

I find humor in this jeff! Do you remember busting my balls about the word ATTACHED? I never said I opened your calibration I merely said "a bit of reversed engineering". How you interpret that is up to you.

i think he is simply monitoring his OMP with some device and guessing.

but i suppose if someone were running one of your callibrations and chose to monitor all engine parameters, we could figure out, roughly, what the maps look like.

And since we'd be estimating, we wouldn't be violating your copyright, would we? I'm not sure, but it seems like you can't really stop someone from finding out what his car is doing.

Though if he then shares that info, you may have something. Not sure how all that works legally. Of course, when i think about a program like OPen Office, it would have been hard to make it look like that without at least trying to peak under the hood of Microsoft Office. So, i dunno.

But so we're clear, when I say I'd like to see MM's maps, I mean I'd like him to willfully disclose them or one or some of one, and maybe just disclose it to me.

i think he is simply monitoring his OMP with some device and guessing.

What I figured as well.


but i suppose if someone were running one of your callibrations and chose to monitor all engine parameters, we could figure out, roughly, what the maps look like.

Actually, no. That is kinda my point. There are several overlapping maps that are responsible for OMP output since it is load-referenced.
Just because there is a commanded value at one point in the map, the actual output might be (and is) quite different.
Which, for the OMP, can be quite dangerous. Which is why asserting that a value is thus and such from monitoring output is a bad idea and it is irresponsible to suggest that these values are useful assessments of my work.

I am mostly trying to protect myself from people that will later go on and claim "these are values from MazdaManiac's calibrations and they blew up my car!", not allowing for the fact that they were values acquired from "reverse engineering".

Believe me, it happens quite a bit already.

That makes sense. i totally understand where you're coming from.

and you've answered a question I had en passant. so, thanks.

and you've answered a question I had en passant. so, thanks.

I'll be more careful how I move my pawn next time.

in keeping with the analogy, it was i who lost the pawn. you answered a question I had indirectly and in passing; you took my pawn as it were en passant.

before jeff decided to blow all this out of proportion and get all butt hurt lets go back to my original question.

"How did you arrive at these numbers for the throttle map? I've tried to do a bit of reverse enginering on a map I have from jeff and his numbers seem to be a lot higher than what we have on the load map."

was it so hard to say

" There are several overlapping maps that are responsible for OMP output since it is load-referenced.
Just because there is a commanded value at one point in the map, the actual output might be (and is) quite different.
Which, for the OMP, can be quite dangerous."

Couldn't you have just said that in the beginning or "Well this is how i got to my "calculation" and if you would like to go it alone here's some help."? Instead you to tend to be a secret smart ass squirl and belittle anyone not on your level or trying to learn something new. Get over yourself

Couldn't you have just said that in the beginning or "Well this is how i got to my "calculation" and if you would like to go it alone here's some help."? Instead you to tend to be a secret smart ass squirl and belittle anyone not on your level or trying to learn something new. Get over yourself

Because you in particular are very good at getting things horribly wrong and then assert that the result is the fault of someone else.
Furthermore, you have already spent so much energy on me in that regard that I feel no particular charity towards correcting your stupidity.

right that's it:worship:

right that's it

That is it.
I am not your teacher, nor do I need to help you or anyone else beyond where it benefits me.

Someone else here on the forum pointed out my "shameless self-promotion" in another thread. I might point out, in that vein, that I have nothing to be ashamed of.
I acquired this stuff on my own and I am entitled to do with it as I please.
You are more than welcome to do the same.
However, to base your limited understanding on my efforts and then assert that my lack of further assistance is somehow selfish is spurious and stupid.

Oh ok i finally get it! :jerkit: SELF ABSORBED CONCEDED WANKER. Now that's something I can understand.

We can do this all day btw but I'd rather be gone fishen:boring:

why the hell is the master of map knowledge hording floating around in an open map thread anyway??? Add something constructive or STFU

why the hell is the master of map knowledge hording floating around in an open map thread anyway??? Add something constructive or STFU

Because I can do what ever the f*ck I please. Thanks.

This went downhill fast.

As much as I personally am not a fan of closed tuning... I have to say I don't blame Jeff one bit - seems like nowadays something like that would actually happen.

This went downhill fast.


Sorry.


As much as I personally am not a fan of closed tuning... I have to say I don't blame Jeff one bit - seems like nowadays something like that would actually happen.

It does happen - with alarming regularity.
I've already had non-customers coming to me complaining that they are having problems with my base calibrations on FI applications.
They are intentionally set up to essentially ruin drivability if you go into boost.

Careless, ornery, stupid people.

FNG go build your post count somewhere else.

What is FNG?

What is FNG?

FNG = "Fucking New Guy", which is pretty funny when applied to me.
Fact is, I spend a couple of minutes every month trimming down my post count.
I go back and delete a lot of useless crap.

^u already have more than enough post

5 pages. only 1 map we can haz and no closer to determining universality. we are approaching failure.

5 pages. only 1 map we can haz and no closer to determining universality. we are approaching failure.

If there was any "universality", there would be no need for custom tuning.
A universal calibration would make my life a lot easier...

i like to see empirical proof of that. seems an answer as to how much deviation can be expected shouldn't be hard to come by.

i mean, surely we can all set our fans the same. and so on?

i want proof or at least an answer as to how much deviation can be expected.

i mean, surely we can all set our fans the same. and so on?

Well, yeah. Thigs that are just on and off are just on and off.
But anything that is multi-value varies as much as 20% from car to car.

That is why the OEM tune is all over the place from car to car, even in totally stock format.

I saw this thread as an oportunity for those of us who want to delve into doing our own tuning , to share information that would be mutually beneficial .

MM , If you choose to come in here it could be a huge benefit to us all should you choose to offer constructive advice .

However , I respectfully suggest that if you don't want to actually help out with usefull advice that you don't bother posting at all , because your posts tend to be more offputting than helpful .

The problem is the advice I have offered and the data points I am providing are not rosy outcomes and platitudes.

Simply pointing out that assumptions made here are wrong is significantly more useful than the assumptions themselves.

haha are you kidding me. MazdaManiac wont constructively help with anything that will come close to hindering any of his sales... he is a shameless self promoting, self absorbed clown...
if anything he would want this thread to have never happened lol...

just my 2centssssss

FNG go build your post count somewhere else

Jeff why is it not surprising that once again you are here with your idle threats and unwanted comments. My explanation to you is your damn copyrights are still safe so whine to someone who cares.

I find humor in this jeff! Do you remember busting my balls about the word ATTACHED? I never said I opened your calibration I merely said "a bit of reversed engineering". How you interpret that is up to you.


but i suppose if someone were running one of your callibrations and chose to monitor all engine parameters, we could figure out, roughly, what the maps look like.

And since we'd be estimating, we wouldn't be violating your copyright, would we? I'm not sure, but it seems like you can't really stop someone from finding out what his car is doing.

Of course, when i think about a program like OPen Office, it would have been hard to make it look like that without at least trying to peak under the hood of Microsoft Office.

before jeff decided to blow all this out of proportion and get all butt hurt lets go back to my original question.


Couldn't you have just said that in the beginning or "Well this is how i got to my "calculation" and if you would like to go it alone here's some help."? Instead you to tend to be a secret smart ass squirl and belittle anyone not on your level or trying to learn something new. Get over yourself

Oh ok i finally get it! :jerkit: SELF ABSORBED CONCEDED WANKER. Now that's something I can understand.

We can do this all day btw but I'd rather be gone fishen:boring:

why the hell is the master of map knowledge hording floating around in an open map thread anyway??? Add something constructive or STFU

This went downhill fast.


^u already have more than enough post

5 pages. only 1 map we can haz and no closer to determining universality. we are approaching failure.

I saw this thread as an oportunity for those of us who want to delve into doing our own tuning , to share information that would be mutually beneficial .

MM , If you choose to come in here it could be a huge benefit to us all should you choose to offer constructive advice .

However , I respectfully suggest that if you don't want to actually help out with usefull advice that you don't bother posting at all , because your posts tend to be more offputting than helpful .



lol MM flames again. instead of him getting all those maps out to the people who have been waiting up to a month if not more for their tunes. he decides to raise hell here. im surprised your fan boys aren't here adding fuel to the fire

haha are you kidding me. MazdaManiac wont constructively help with anything that will come close to hindering any of his sales... he is a shameless self promoting, self absorbed clown...
if anything he would want this thread to have never happened lol...

just my 2centssssss

:crying:

:crying:

gotummmmmmmmmmmmmmm

gotummmmmmmmmmmmmmm

OK. I just don't know what that means.

OK. I just don't know what that means.
lol your the man... thats what it means

i've found his comments generally helpful albeit difficult to swallow at times. and i think i see nipple. sooo...

Myriadshalaks sorry for pissing in your post. I have some data logs for the . MAF recal coming your way in a few. Just fyi if I can't get them up today it will be a few weeks before I post again. Oconus

Actually, no. That is kinda my point. There are several overlapping maps that are responsible for OMP output since it is load-referenced.
Just because there is a commanded value at one point in the map, the actual output might be (and is) quite different.
Which, for the OMP, can be quite dangerous. Which is why asserting that a value is thus and such from monitoring output is a bad idea and it is irresponsible to suggest that these values are useful assessments of my work.
.

Translation :

You guys are all stupid so i'm gunna throw out a whole lot of BS knowing full well that most of the people that read this wont have a clue anyway so It will be effective in throwing them off the scent .

Translation :

You guys are all stupid so i'm gunna throw out a whole lot of BS knowing full well that most of the people that read this wont have a clue anyway so It will be effective in throwing them off the scent .

No. Simple translation:

If you are monitoring the OMP by its output, you will NOT know anything about the OMP tables.

No. Simple translation:

If you are monitoring the OMP by its output, you will NOT know anything about the OMP tables.

don't disagree - I think you get my point though ...

5 pages. only 1 map we can haz and no closer to determining universality. we are approaching failure.

i had some stuff here... http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=171247

So wait... what are we talking about again?

So wait... what are we talking about again?
yer mom! :cwm27:

yer mom! :cwm27:

FACE!!!!

You shoulda milked it though -

"What are we talking about?"
"Jeff"
"Jeff Who?
"Jeff Fat Ass Momma!"

Your momma so fat, she broke her leg and gravy came out.

so MM comes in and points out that someone's thinking about the OMP if flawed, he get's jumped by haters, and he's the one who came in here to toss poo around? how's that work again?

Anywho... i play around with the cobb software all the time, I dont have the brass nuts to actually load it into my car, but it is fun to mess around with the tables.

I'd be curious to know how many people are actively changing things with the software and then checking out their results with gauges / long term logging / dyno pulls.

lulz0rz

I would post about the ridiculous behavior of some people here (who in the past have failed to follow simple instructions) but then I'd be labeled a fanboy.

Besides, this yo mamma thing is MUCH more fun.
Yo momma is SO fat that when she got on the scale, it said, "No group discounts"

Yo momma so fat she uses an oil filter for "that time of the month"

Yo mama so fat she lay on the beach and people run around yelling "Free Willy!!!"

Yo momma so fat that a Spaniard tried to claim her in the name of Queen Isabella.

Yo mama so fat she had to go to Sea World to get baptized

Yo momma's so fat,
when she hauls ass, she has to make two trips.

Yo mama so fat she lay on the beach and people run around yelling "Free Willy!!!"
Yo momma's so fat,
she makes Free Willy look like a tic tac

Yo momma so fat that when she leaves baskin robins they have to take the 3 off the sign.

Don't get me wrong; I would love to bust on Jeef's balls.. but the fact is that he has a really valid point. While he did paint himself into the corner (in the sense that he has to "sell" tunes to make money, and has chosen to keep his findings private) - it doesn't change the fact that anyone who screws with his tune and fucks up a motor is going to blame him.

Yo mama so fat everytime she walks in high heels, she strikes oil!

your mommas so poor your family had to eat ceral with a fork to save milk.

Yo mamma so fat she sat on a quarter and a booger shot out of George Washington’s nose.

Yo mama so fat she put on her lipstick with a paint-roller.

Yo mama so fat when she sits around the house, she SITS AROUND THE HOUSE!

Yo mama so fat you have to grease the door frame and hold a twinkie on the other side just to get her through.

Yo momma so ugly we call her Jorge.

Yo mama so fat when she wears one of those X jackets, helicopters try to land on her.

Yo mama so fat she got hit by a parked car!

myriadshalaks- here ya go

These logs are Direct copies of your MAF recal loaded into ATR. I would do a better job in this post but i'm leaving in a few for bulgaria so time is out.

1) startup log- The first time starting the car after warm up. Map was loaded, car started and warmed up, drove it around the block let it sit for a min and logged data.

2) idle- this log was taken after 8 full cold starts and approx 200 miles driven

3) cruise- log taken in open loop on flat ground all power on A/C, lights, R defrost, the works.

4) WOT- this was a slow roll on throttle at low RMP's in 3rd gear.

Jeff and I do not get along but I will say the car drives a ton better with his maps. running on a stock map the car now fills like it has no pull down low *AT ALL* but the high RPMs' fills the same i guess. Fuel milage has gone to shit and for some reason it seems weird shifing at medium loads. There's a very slight bit of jerkyness or bogginess almost like I forgot how to shift. However on a positive the car idles way better on this stock type map. It doesn't fill like it's always trying to die. "that's all i got to say about that."

well i didn't expect just the mafscale to do very much. why don't you try loading the timing and fuel maps too. that should help out with the power down low.

your cruise log afrs look good. don't understand why your mpgs would be worse.

your wot log looks like a you're running the stock fuel maps. leaning out those values would help a lot with power too.

and your idle looks steady.

my guess is all you need to really change are the timing and fuel maps. what do others think.

i had some stuff here... http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=171247

cool rotor. can you share the maps you're settled on now in .csv so I can give them a go?

What intake Magic?

Chase beat me too it - the stock map has the cat protection mode fueling in it... there is a lot of room for improvement on the AFR tables.

MS intake, turbo XS full w/o cat, mazsport ignition.

I know theres a lot to be gained on the fuel side but the ignition map scares me due to the mazsport.

with jeffs maps i was much learner all over the place and my cruise afr was in the 15's with a few bounces into ^14's. I assume thats where the mpg has gone.

MS intake, turbo XS full w/o cat, mazsport ignition.

I know theres a lot to be gained on the fuel side but the ignition map scares me due to the mazsport.

with jeffs maps i was much learner all over the place and my cruise afr was in the 15's with a few bounces into ^14's. I assume thats where the mpg has gone.

On an NA motor - the dwell ignition issues is less of a risk... but I would probably look to scrap that Mazsport stuff...

As for the cruise stuff... you are correct... go look at the AFR fuel tables in the lower load and RPM ranges - see the big rich spot?

would love to scrap the mazsport as i've read about it's recent failures but for me there are no other options i'm aware of. Is there anything besides the BHR and mazsport for over 300hp proven?

BHR would be where it is at... or build your own like olddragger did.

would love to scrap the mazsport as i've read about it's recent failures but for me there are no other options i'm aware of. Is there anything besides the BHR and mazsport for over 300hp proven?

cough - I'm running stock coils , hi spec leads , rx7 plugs and 325ish whp . Runs sweet ;)

Yo momma so ugly we call her Jorge.

ROFL!!! That needs to be in somebodies sig!

I just loaded up the details from the 1st post of this thread. I will do a flash right now and let you know how it goes. I have a K&N Typhoon intake, MS Exhaust, AP Underdrive Pulley, GREddy pulleys, COBB (obviously, lol...). Similar to yours... I was running the Cobb Stage 1 map before this.

Here goes nothing!

Wow...she really pulled. Tons more juice in the 3k - 5k range. I was even peeling around corners and I have super sticky R compound 245 rubber. Little rough on idle, may end up boosting the idle rpm. Seems to be dropping to 750 for whatever reason.

oh, the throttle fuel maps. i have 1-3 and 4-6. mine look pretty lean.


Why does my AccessTUNER have 3 cats for Throttle gear?? (1-2, 3-4, 5-6)...

different year, difference in the maps.

hey myriad, do you copy the fuel map you provided to all two (or in my case 3) sections of the Air/Fuel Gear maps? Or just the 1st section? Did you modify your Throttle Fuel Gear map? This is confusing, and as much as I know about engines I don't know sh*t about CPU's...

i would just do 1-2 and 3-4. The tables i have are for 1-3. So 1-4 should be okay. I use 4 for cruising, but you could use 5 or 6. no big deal.

my throttle fuel is stock. that and the ve tables are my next projects. i'm still unsure about how the the throttle fuel tables come into play.

good luck. looking forward to your write up about it.

Wow...she really pulled. Tons more juice in the 3k - 5k range. I was even peeling around corners and I have super sticky R compound 245 rubber. Little rough on idle, may end up boosting the idle rpm. Seems to be dropping to 750 for whatever reason.

glad to hear it. definitely better than the stage 1 map.

with the idle, you might try to pull the room fuse to reset your fuel trims. there's other things you could try too before you go into the idle map. Keep us posted.

glad to hear it. definitely better than the stage 1 map.

with the idle, you might try to pull the room fuse to reset your fuel trims. there's other things you could try too before you go into the idle map. Keep us posted.

Also may need to MAF scale / injector scale.

You started 3D tuning yet Chase?

visiting the cobb website is sickening anymore... the MS3 and MS6 guys have about 15 Cobb maps they worked with cobb to develop, PLUS launch control and no-lift-shift features now...

instead, rx-8 owners get the "joy" of working with a blackhole

Also may need to MAF scale / injector scale.

You started 3D tuning yet Chase?

getting some logs. probably this weekend i'll give it a crack.

Cool man - call me if you need some help.

will do, man. hopefully it'll go smoothly though. lol. never does.

visiting the cobb website is sickening anymore... the MS3 and MS6 guys have about 15 Cobb maps they worked with cobb to develop, PLUS launch control and no-lift-shift features now...

instead, rx-8 owners get the "joy" of working with a blackhole

Yes...this is quite upsetting. Is it because there are more 3's and 6's?? I don't know...it's a piss off.

Is it because there are more 3's and 6's??
no (http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/d1a50ec23a/blindfolded-shot-to-the-nuts):mchase:

Meh, weird. I've found that experts on COBB and tuning are extremely hesitant to offer help and advice. I could post about just about anything else related to the 8 and I would be flooded with helpful hints, info, and opinions. But when it comes to tuning you get treated like a terrorist when you ask for help. When I first bought my COBB I knew nothing about maps, I simply posted a request for maps not knowing if there were any. Someone who will go unmentioned accused me of being a cheap a$$ trying to get maps for free. I figured a hefty investment in the COBB was enough, gimme the software damnit!

Well let's buck that trend. I'm tired of the COBB Stage 1 garbage map, kudos to Myriad for trying to change the tuning culture.

Yes...this is quite upsetting. Is it because there are more 3's and 6's?? I don't know...it's a piss off.

No its because there are very few rotary tuners and even fewer Renesis 13B tuners. Even RX7 guys don't have a lot of options for tuning. There are an absolute crapload of piston tuners and learning Mazda piston engine tuning options isn't a huge leap from Ford/Chevy/Honda/BMW/etc. tuning once the PCUs were cracked.

Also there isn't a lot of money to be made tuning rotaries so when someone does get ahead the only way they can make out is to keep their tunes secret. With the piston engine Mazdas they might be able to give away a lot of their work and still make money from the people who would rather get professional tuning than DIYers.

But huge kudos to everyone trying to help change the culture for the better.

Interesting... good idea on starting a thread for this but... too bad I dont understand all this mumbo jumbo :dunno: However I do plan on getting an AP anyways.

you guys should thank kane for letting us see the map.

No its because there are very few rotary tuners and even fewer Renesis 13B tuners. .


No, because there are even fewer people willing to deal with direct injection and an ecu that varies boost by gears.

The difference is the MS community relies on Cobb to fix things and improve the maps (and then the information is spread) rather then the 8 community who funnels 98% of the problems through one person who has a vested interest in not spreading the knowledge he gains. Hence cobb themeselves are pretty much oblivious to how aweful the stage 1 map is because of a complete lack of feedback (which also has left them pretty much abandon the platform since whats the point is no one is complaining).

post your map, rotor. i want to try it.

???

My RPM issue kind of sorted itself out. Probably just hiccups from the new map. Went away after a few hundy k's. I still can't help but feel there's more power available in there.

lean out your fuel maps.

If you are running richer than 12.2-12.5 or so; then you need to scale your MAF and injectors - not screw with the fuel maps.

I am assuming your still using the base fuel maps I made right Chase?

yeah, good point. guess we should look at the logs and we need to know what maps he's running.

I'll start logging. I'm running your maps from the first post.

Q: What's the difference between the blue line and green line? Other than the obvious difference in AFR. I would assume blue is the way to go with the smoother curve.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c157/myriads/afrload4u.jpg


This one?

Hard to compare unless you can overlay the Target AFR's - but overall what chase is showing is some lean spots from the original tune; which were taken out and smoothed by running Baseline a few more times.

Ah. I'm gonna continue to log and give your Baseline tuner a few cracks at her and I'll let you know what the end results will be. I should be able to crank out 200 whp with my setup.

blue line and green line are different fuel maps. they have different values. not much difference really. green line is richer.

Any chance I can ever get the target vs actual graph like that from you Chase?

i thought i already did one with the diamonds and the boxes, no?

kane tunes my car

maybe i'm confused.

How can I adjust your fuel tables? 04-05 has Fuel tables 1-2, 3-4, 5-6.

it's for 1-3. use it for 1-2 and 3-4. adjust as you wish.

I am considering buying an AP used for 400. Anyone wanna try a few maps on my AT 6spd? lmk.

I am considering buying an AP used for 400. Anyone wanna try a few maps on my AT 6spd? lmk.

Last I checked, the RACE version of the software didn't support the AT.

I am considering buying an AP used for 400. Anyone wanna try a few maps on my AT 6spd? lmk.
I bought one used for an AT.

Last I checked, the RACE version of the software didn't support the AT.
When I downloaded ATR from Cobb for my serial number, it came up as an 04 AT. Hasn't ben easy to work with by any means...........

is Mazmaniac the only guy who can tune the cobb ap? i think a lot of ppl are waiting for their maps from him.

if you guys know any cobb tuner in texas, please give me his/her sn on this forum. Thanks!

Do it yourself...

lol. wtf is going on here?

slackers

Do it yourself...

I don't know man, I'm lost when it comes to tuning. Just learning the rotary alone was a PIA. After much trial and error, the car is running great now.

Time to take it to the next step with proper tunes for my mods. And the last thing I would want to do is blow the motor up with a bad diy tune. :Peace:

A local friend of mine is getting an AP. I can't wait to start playing with it. I'm quite familiar with ecu tuning but have never tuned an AP. I saw Jeff's out at Sevenstock once and it is pretty intuitive which is nice. Definitely a great setup. I really want to start playing with different maps for different gears now that I understand the benefits of having different maps depending on gear. Of course it's only an advantage with drive by wire but it is still going to be a new world of tuning which should be pretty fun.

A local friend of mine is getting an AP. I can't wait to start playing with it. I'm quite familiar with ecu tuning but have never tuned an AP. I saw Jeff's out at Sevenstock once and it is pretty intuitive which is nice. Definitely a great setup. I really want to start playing with different maps for different gears now that I understand the benefits of having different maps depending on gear. Of course it's only an advantage with drive by wire but it is still going to be a new world of tuning which should be pretty fun.

Let me know if you have time to mess with mine. AT6spd.

I guess now is a great time to learn how to tune my car. Are you still in Houston?

I'm about as in Houston as you can get. 1/4 mile away from the skyline in Midtown.

K, I'll make a purchase for a used cobb. I'll send you a PM with my info. I'm 5 min from mid town.

Don't expect miracles anytime soon (or at all for that matter). I need some time to really learn it all.

^But your a god... It will take you all of 30 seconds to learn everything! :D:

Don't expect miracles anytime soon (or at all for that matter). I need some time to really learn it all.

I'm not expecting anything. I can always sell the cobb away if it doesn't work for me. I'm just looking to raise my rev limit and trim the AFR a bit.

BTW, take your time learning it, I'll read up on it and try to learn it too.

I'm not new to tuning but am new to tuning drive by wire. I know how it can be beneficial though and have my own ideas on things to try. I used to think that it would be easiest to just take all of the maps and make them all the same. Actually it would be easiest to do that and I'm sure the method that some use. However now that I've learned more I realize that this method leaves alot of potential performance on the table. Not so much in terms of ultimate power but moreso in terms of driveability and economy.

great thread .... subscribed!

bump.

wanting to scale the MAF for the Cobb Stage 1 map to use with an AEM intake.

looking at AFR's approaching 17.5 at WOT is scary..

Did you download Chases map?

I don't see Chase's map? He referred me here but all I see is what he has in his first post, and that MAF scaling is almost identical to stock.. what am I missing here?

He's got them saved as CSV's you have to copy and paste them into your AP since these aren't pro-tuner files.

Right, I know that but looking at the MAF calibration he's got here it is nearly identical to stock...
I was under the impression that the MAF scale for the stock intake is not going to behave with an intake such as the AEM..

Hm, okay.
So after further research I found out the Mazdaspeed/AEM retain the stock tube diameter? I was thinking it was .25" bigger or something.
With that said, why is it that the Cobb Stage 1 map does not behave with the AEM/MS intake?

the cobb stage 1 map is butt, that's why. it's hardly a performance tune. i've posted comparison numbers here and on the cobb site.

i'm not sure why you're getting such lean afrs with it though. i ran richer than i'd like with it. 11s and 12s.

if you want a personalized maf scale, you'l want to use kane's baseline unless you're crazy good at math.

the maf scale i have posted here is close to stock, you're right. but it's conservatively different in the right direction.
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i suspect there is something else awry if you're getting 17s at wot. are you sure that's the case? i mean, i've seen numbers like that when i let off the gas. i've seen 20s. the important thing is at what load. at max load, you shouldn't be that high. 14s at the most.

yep, it's a consistent 16.5-17.5 when I floor it in 2nd or 3rd gear as I go over ~7,000rpm

the engine note even changes.

everywhere else it's good though in the 12-13's while WOT

i'll try your fuel map next, are you using that same map for the fuel maps for 1-2 and 3-4?

check your hoses and caps and your pms. i just sent you one.

Maybe an injector issue..... everything set up mechanically?

i'll try your fuel map next, are you using that same map for the fuel maps for 1-2 and 3-4?

yeah, i stil run this tune a lot. it's my default. works like a champ. old faithful, i call it.

mine is for 1-3 though. 07 is different. but that shouldn't matter. just more work for you.

i've been meaning to ve tune but have been unexpectedly busy as of late.

i know what it is. one of his valves isn't opening. or the fuel pump is toast.

hmm, dunno about that. APV or VDI? How do I check these guys without being too invasive? And fuel pump? I can see why that would cause leaning such as this, but it's only got 29k miles on it. Also, that "engine note" change that happens when it leans out did not happen Stock.. though I guess that isn't the point..

what should I do here? i was thinking of loading the Cobb "stock tune" and see where that puts me.

and just reiterating this lean situation only happens at WOT.... on the other hand I can apply 50% throttle and go all the way up to redline with my AFR's staying below ~12.5.

i know what it is. one of his valves isn't opening. or the fuel pump is toast.

A fuel pump failure would show itself as really extreme air/fuel readouts...like 19:1 or 22:1. The other tell tale sign is maxing out your positive fuel trims.


and just reiterating this lean situation only happens at WOT.... on the other hand I can apply 50% throttle and go all the way up to redline with my AFR's staying below ~12.5.

It sounds more like it's an issue with the tune itself. Are you using the COBB stage 1 tune when this happens? People have reported the tune is very lean and I've had lean issues when I used it myself. I would advise staying far away from it. The tune doesn't have any updates for OMP, fan speeds, idle speed or redline anyway...lame.

I would load the stock tune and see if you can repeat the same values. If you see much richer air/fuel readings then it's clearly the tune. If they stay the same I'd investigate a possible vaccum leak.

okay, so something outside the tune is making me run leaner then I am supposed too.

just so you guys can see, here are 2 quick data logs of the 17's afr's I was getting with the Cobb Stage 1 stock map. these are quick pulls in 2nd gear, wot.

http://implux.net/~alz0rz/2ndgear1.csv
http://implux.net/~alz0rz/2ndgear2.csv

so i loaded the cobb stock style map. now in the afr tables for this map they have the AFR targets in the mid 10's and low 11's... it looks like I am running leaner then I am supposed to though at WOT, check out 2 logs I made with the stock style map.

http://implux.net/~alz0rz/cssm-1.csv - this one is 2nd to 3rd gear hard pull.
http://implux.net/~alz0rz/cssm-2.csv - this is a 2nd gear only pull.

the only thing I noticed was I logged a few times over 230g/s which I found interesting...

that makes no sense. your stock numbers are a little lean, but your stage one numbers are really lean. weird.

do a bunch of puls and let's see how consistent things are.

look how little difference there is between stock and stage one 2nd gear wot (with ms intake).

your "stock" was the cobb stock style map yes?

i'm thinking it really has to do with my MAF needing to be scaled.. i'll run this tune for another day or so since the numbers are much safer... hell I'd even be tempted to leave it as is.. but something is wrong and i want to know what it is.

I'm thinking it is time to MAF scale...... a little can go a long way.

i'd love to but I'd need help setting up Baseline .... i tried and didn't want to mess with it.

Can come visit me in VA when I get there I guess..... haha u have to make the drive though!

where in VA are ya gonna be? I may just do that, i've been looking for an excuse for a road trip :P

Fort Eustis

400 miles, not too bad. :)

400 miles, not too bad. :)

f**k - that's like the other end of the country here LOL .

Just to be clear here - you fitted a ms intake and since then you are lean above 6000 at WOT ?

/\ no I had no way of measuring that beforehand.. I had an MS intake on the car for the longest, but just recently got my AP to play with. So after loading the Cobb stage 1 map my AFR's were extremelyyy lean.

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Any so an update.

After a good number of driving cycles with the Cobb "Stock Style" tune my AFR's seem to have richened up. I am now in the 11's at WOT. I guess that makes sense that after my trims have settled I will be more of where I am supposed to be?

So i have edited the stock style map with the fueling and timing that myriad provided, will load the new edited map on tomorrow and see how that goes. I also increased load based omp operation by about 25% in all ranges.

You may end with some black smoke; keep an eye on it.

Also watch your fuel trims; if they are really high then you have problems.

You may end with some black smoke; keep an eye on it.

Also watch your fuel trims; if they are really high then you have problems.

"Black smoke", too much oiling you mean?
As for my trims, they are spot on.
My STFT deviates from -1 to 2 at idle, usually settles to 0. My LTFT has stuck in the +5 to +8 range.
This is with driving with the Cobb "Stock Style" map for a good week now.

5-8 is not too bad (not great)....... I dunno - I guess try the Chase map and see what happens.

Hey Kane when you get over here I'm a have you take a look @ my car & maybe we can get this baby fixed & tuned.
I've been having this ongoing idle issue now going on 11mos.

Check my thread here Linky (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=185546) I've done everything & pretty much fed up with this damn car @ the moment.

Jeff seems to think it has something to do with my injector scaling.
I sent all my injectors off for cleaning & flow testing and everything came back fine. Although the stock yellow injectors do flow more than 380cc (440cc to be precise).

Well after I reinstalled all injectors w/new seals, I start her up & after warming up, it proceeds to do the same damn thing. I don't know what to do @ this point, maybe when you get down here, you can help me diagnose to see if it is the tune or some issue w/the car

Yep - sure can; I'll be around.... most of my weekends are spent doing stuff like that.

And drinking that Sailor Jerry stuff with Coke :)