I bought and installed the Agency Power adjustatble front endlinks. The factory ones failed and the upgraded TSB ones failed as well.

What is the proper way to adjust the endlink length so it is correct in relationship to the sways and RB lowering springs? Thanks.

In Relation to the Front Sway Bar you want to keep the bar Horizontal(Completely level with the Ground, so adjusting the bolts height so that depending on your ride height making it shorter in length to pull the bar to a horizontal position.

Let me know if that helps or have any other questions.

Upgraded TSB?..

Why does the end-link length matter?

When you lower the car the direction of the bar changes from its most powerful and effective position. ( The bar will point at an angle, upwards.)

So the end link will bring it back down to it correct position. (Horizontal and level with the ground)

http://www.evo-r.net/product/RX-8/LINK/OEMLINK2.jpg

http://www.evo-r.net/product/RX-8/LINK/OEMLINK3.jpg

Without cutting-and-pasting or plagiarizing somebody else's text, why is this important?

Come on Brice, let's have some fun!:lol2:

I got a better question Ray.. :x Using the adjustable endlinks..how do you get the rear to be horizontal with the rear auto-level sensor in the way? If it wasn't, I'd have no problem...but seems to be causing me some grief.

Without cutting-and-pasting or plagiarizing somebody else's text, why is this important?

Come on Brice, let's have some fun!:lol2:

I am not cutting and pasting anyones text, I did however grab the pics elsewhere.

But we will see who is laughing this Friday....Got a nice product release right up your alley.

You have a PM Charles....:lol:

I got a better question Ray.. :x Using the adjustable endlinks..how do you get the rear to be horizontal with the rear auto-level sensor in the way? If it wasn't, I'd have no problem...but seems to be causing me some grief.

Shouldn't you be asking the one who sold the links to you? They oughta know.

If the angle is not close to 90 degrees it puts strange loads on the joints.....and it can lead to binding..or worst case scenario..the bar will lock on the frame......causing very large increases in effective spring rate :) Not good for handling...

But we will see who is laughing this Friday....Got a nice product release right up your alley.

You have a PM Charles....:lol:

Bring it, Bro, I love Capitalism but I don't take any of this as a joke when it comes to giving people solid advice rather than just shoving parts in their hands.

No I don't.

Was just stating.. I was assuming it's for all rears considering everyone has a autolevel sensor..

You have a PM Charles....:lol:

I forgot to say, "All PMS replied!". :lol2:

Call me if you want to talk, Brice, you have the Batphone number.;)

If the angle is not close to 90 degrees it puts strange loads on the joints.....and it can lead to binding..or worst case scenario..the bar will lock on the frame......causing very large increases in effective spring rate :) Not good for handling...

This same principle applies when it comes to suspension drops, too.
The word I was looking for was "pre-load".
Further, before anybody thinks I am getting personal with Brice/Fluid please understand that I am trying to encourage all of we vendors to engage in technical discussion so those who read these conversations can see what their favorite vendors' opinons are (on a strictly technical level) and decide the theory or theories with which they are most comfortable. Nobody on the BHR team is arrogant enough to actually think we know everything and we certainly enjoy the opportunity to share ideas and learn something in the process. And maybe have a little healthy competition in the process as we are more concerned with the end benefit to the market more than anything else. The current vendor rules quash these opportunities.

Nobody on the BHR team is arrogant enough to actually think we know everything .

:eyetwitch:eyetwitch:lol::lol::)

:eyetwitch:eyetwitch:lol::lol::)

Okay, then. Erick, Todd, and myself anyway. :lol2:
Speaking of that; there is nothing funnier than when I get Jeff to look at me like he hears a dog whistle being blown.

The purpose of a sway bar is to keep the "loaded" side of the car even with the "unloaded" side of the car in a turn. So all it's technically doing is flexing itself.
This is the purpose of a larger sway bar. To not flex as much. As far as the endlink position it is all relative to the opposite side of the sway bar.
Now if the sway bar was fixed to the frame and not able to rotate in the mounting brackets then height would be an issue.
Just be sure to make sure they are at the same height on both sides.
But the sway bar does not deal with the mounting points as much as it deals with rotational flex and even height of the endlinks.

I got a better question Ray.. :x Using the adjustable endlinks..how do you get the rear to be horizontal with the rear auto-level sensor in the way? If it wasn't, I'd have no problem...but seems to be causing me some grief.

Was just stating.. I was assuming it's for all rears considering everyone has a autolevel sensor..

Mine is set up the same way. I have my ap endlink set to the stiff position that means its in the hole close to the bar. From the sounds of it. Yours is the same way. My car is lowered on tanabe gf210 springs. So there is really no way for me to set the bar straight. Trust me that sucker is on there tight.
Even with the autolevel sensor in the way I use a short alenwrench on the end of a socket wrench to hold it from spinning and used a long 17" box end wrench to tourqe it the bolts down. Works for me.
But keep an eye on the bolts as they tend to come lose over time.
-Gil

The purpose of a sway bar is to keep the "loaded" side of the car even with the "unloaded" side of the car in a turn. So all it's technically doing is flexing itself.
This is the purpose of a larger sway bar. To not flex as much. As far as the endlink position it is all relative to the opposite side of the sway bar.
Now if the sway bar was fixed to the frame and not able to rotate in the mounting brackets then height would be an issue.
Just be sure to make sure they are at the same height on both sides.
But the sway bar does not deal with the mounting points as much as it deals with rotational flex and even height of the endlinks.

Here is the curious thing about swaybars and adjustable end-links; swaybars such as the Progress Techs for the front of the RX-8 have 3 holes on each side and are considered "5-way" adjustable. Why might that be? Further, many people misunderstand the purpose of adjustable end-links and the differences in how the center rods are threaded and their implications.

And herein lies a HUGE secret to what makes BHR the best........

Mine is set up the same way. I have my ap endlink set to the stiff position that means its in the hole close to the bar. From the sounds of it. Yours is the same way. My car is lowered on tanabe gf210 springs. So there is really no way for me to set the bar straight. Trust me that sucker is on there tight.
Even with the autolevel sensor in the way I use a short alenwrench on the end of a socket wrench to hold it from spinning and used a long 17" box end wrench to tourqe it the bolts down. Works for me.
But keep an eye on the bolts as they tend to come lose over time.
-Gil

... and this advice comes from a guy who has no fiducuary interest in the matter. thx, Gil.;)

Here is the curious thing about swaybars and adjustable end-links; swaybars such as the Progress Techs for the front of the RX-8 have 3 holes on each side and are considered "5-way" adjustable. Why might that be?

And herein lies a HUGE secret to what makes BHR the best........

The adjustability of the sway bar ends allows the user to adjust the torsional flexibility of the sway bar. Think leverage.
The closer in the setting to the front of the bar the more stiff the bar becomes. The farther out the mounting point (end of sway bar end link mount) will make the bar more flexible.

some good info coming out here... subscribed..

... and this advice comes from a guy who has no fiducuary interest in the matter. thx, Gil.;)

Uhh its fiduciary not eiducuary.

Gil, what are you talking about? I didn't misspell anything........

... and this advice comes from a guy who has no fiducuary interest in the matter. thx, Gil.;)

Uhh its fiduciary not eiducuary.

Gil, what are you talking about? I didn't misspell anything........

Well actually you both did. :lol2:

fiduciary

Well actually you both did. :lol2:

fiduciary


I didn't, Jack Daniels did!:lol2:

lol I was talking about Evo-R rear endlinks and that if we bring it lower it goes against the sensor... not about anything else. Then you guys went on about sways in general.. :x

lol I was talking about Evo-R rear endlinks and that if we bring it lower it goes against the sensor... not about anything else. Then you guys went on about sways in general.. :x

We're terrible in that respect.

I didn't, Jack Daniels did!:lol2:
:rofl: I'll take a glass please X_X

lol I was talking about Evo-R rear endlinks and that if we bring it lower it goes against the sensor... not about anything else. Then you guys went on about sways in general.. :x
Well what I had to say had a lot to do with what you where asking, regardless of endlinks. You do not want them to sit on anything othere than the crib they rest in and the sway bar. Theres an old saying; If you brake a tool, then your using it for the wrong job. In that respect if it was not ment to be used in a fashion other that what the manufacturer suggested I would not do it.

We're terrible in that respect.
:lol2: so true.

lol I guess you're both right. I'll take a closer look at some point, but thanks for the tips anyways.

Here's some thinking out loud since I have been working with Whiteline's sway bars and adjustable endlinks:

My question would be...are adjustable endlinks more or less a replacement for the adjustment holes in a sway bar? Right now, I have a non-adjustable Whiteline sway bar but the endlinks are adjustable.

In simple terms, increasing the length of the links would soften the suspension and decreasing the links would stiffen the suspension IIRC. In terms of overall adjustability things get complex when you have both adjustable bars AND endlinks.

There's a really awesome thread I'm pouring over on the NASOIC forums where whiteline discusses how a 3 point adjustable bar is in fact 5 point adjustable.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218971

One thing to keep in mind with adjustable suspension is the range and complexity of your setup. I made the mistake of thinking more adjustability was better when all it did was seriously complicate my setup. It's taken the better part of a year of track time and research for me to finally get a setup that works within what the RX8 was designed for.

Length of the links makes little to no difference in the stiffness of the bars....it is the lenght of the pivot arm that determines that

My question would be...are adjustable endlinks more or less a replacement for the adjustment holes in a sway bar?

With adjustable endlinks on a non-adjustable bar you can still adjust. So yes they are a replacement. Plus oem endlinks suck. They bend in the back (well mine did) and from what I read on here the front bend too.

You can adjust the bar position...but not the stiffness ;)

So, I'm thinking the endlinks need to be adjusted while the wheels are on the ground. That's going to be a challenging position to make the adjustments.

You can adjust the bar position...but not the stiffness ;)

Why not?

Full of good info here... keeping an eye on this!

Isn't THIS what forums like this are for? I certainly hope it is.........

Share ideas, thoughts, observations, and experiences.
Argue a bit, challenge one another, get heated from time to time.
Get pissed at each other and call each other names.
Meet up and drink a couple Samuel L. Jackson beers together.

Happens at the BHR "compound" every time there are two or more of us getting together.:lol2:

I have been wondering this for a while, thanks for informing the masses.

So, I'm thinking the endlinks need to be adjusted while the wheels are on the ground. That's going to be a challenging position to make the adjustments.
You can put the lower control arm on jack stands. That loads the spring to give you the proper angle.
Also, if the angle of the swaybar ends are adjusted too high, they can bounce against the OEM brake line causing it to fracture and loose fluid.

You can adjust the bar position...but not the stiffness ;)


O Rly?

The Bar doesn't move, The End-link changes position and it does change the stiffness level by changing the whole Softer setting on the upgraded bars to full stifness settings you can see


Front Sway Bar:
110% stiffer than the stock sway bar with a rate of 970 lbs/in
150% stiffer than the stock sway bar with a rate of 1150 lbs/in
195% stiffer than the stock sway bar with a rate of 1370 lbs/in

Rear Sway Bar:
390% stiffer than the stock sway bar with a rate of 195 lbs/in
470% stiffer than the stock sway bar with a rate of 250lbs/in
580% stiffer than the stock sway bar with a rate of 340 lbs/in

Pulled from Hotckis (http://www.hotchkis.net/rx8_sport_sway_bar_set.html), becasue I obviously know nothing and I need to quote what I say from where I already know.

Instead of being sarcastic you could just correct the wrong statement. :uhh: (For Charles)

Everyone has valuable input....

Instead of being sarcastic you could just correct the wrong statement. :uhh: (For Charles)

Everyone has valuable input....

Where was my sarcasm?

The point, BRICE, was to make you do your own homework (for once) instead of others (like me) doing it for you as you asked me to do with regard to ACT's line of product recently. Maybe you should learn a little more about the RX-8 instead of telling people what they simply want to hear in order to close a sale.

What is even more embarassing is that people have posted up here who aren't even vendors and they have more experience than you with this car and they articulated their positions far better than you did. Doesn't that cause anyone concern here?

I don't know nearly everything about the RX-8, and we are all learning, but I don't also need to bullshit people about it and ape other people's info in order to help my customers.

Not everyone has valuable input as I wouldn't trust a brain surgeon to rebuild my transmission.

THIS was sarcasm.......

Nobody on the BHR team is arrogant enough to actually think we know everything and we certainly enjoy the opportunity to share ideas and learn something in the process. And maybe have a little healthy competition in the process as we are more concerned with the end benefit to the market more than anything else. The current vendor rules quash these opportunities.


the current rules were put in place because of a bhr team member and his constant bashing of others to the point of harassment whose sole point seemed not for info sake but to drive away competition. many could conclude from reading his posts that he is indeed arrogant enough.

/jack

as a side note, this recent talk is why i pestered Fluid recently about one of their products. not because it was a poor product, but because i am not informed enough to forsee all the aspects of many modifications and i look to the vendor trying to sell me something to fill me in on any and every question or concern i may have about it.

/end jack

Length of the links makes little to no difference in the stiffness of the bars....it is the lenght of the pivot arm that determines that

This is my understanding of the geometry of swaybar stiffness. Correct me with facts if I am wrong. As Dannobre alludes to above, the stiffness of the sway bar is related to the torsional stiffness of the main cross bar which is dependent on its diameter and construction (hollow vs solid), multiplied by the length of the pivot arm (the arm with the adjustable holes in it). Using different holes in the pivot arm shortens or lengthens the pivot arm, and changes the torque just like using a shorter or longer wrench handle.

The adjustment of the endlinks is there simply to align the connection of the pivot arm to the frame to prevent binding, and interference with the frame and other suspension/brake components. Although I can imagine a radical change in endlink length might have some small effect on sway bar stiffness by changing the geometry of the pivot arm, endlink length changes large enough to significantly effect bar stiffness would probably cause big problems with binding and survival of the endlink.

I would imagine that the best endlink length is that which places the endlink at 90 degrees to the line extending from the attachment hole to the center of the cross-section of the main cross bar when the suspension is loaded at rest (i.e. on the ground).

^That's it in a nut shell.

This is my understanding of the geometry of swaybar stiffness. Correct me with facts if I am wrong. As Dannobre alludes to above, the stiffness of the sway bar is related to the torsional stiffness of the main cross bar which is dependent on its diameter and construction (hollow vs solid), multiplied by the length of the pivot arm (the arm with the adjustable holes in it). Using different holes in the pivot arm shortens or lengthens the pivot arm, and changes the torque just like using a shorter or longer wrench handle.

The adjustment of the endlinks is there simply to align the connection of the pivot arm to the frame to prevent binding, and interference with the frame and other suspension/brake components. Although I can imagine a radical change in endlink length might have some small effect on sway bar stiffness by changing the geometry of the pivot arm, endlink length changes large enough to significantly effect bar stiffness would probably cause big problems with binding and survival of the endlink.

I would imagine that the best endlink length is that which places the endlink at 90 degrees to the line extending from the attachment hole to the center of the cross-section of the main cross bar when the suspension is loaded at rest (i.e. on the ground).

Hmmph...That being said, so it's not about making sure the bar's actually horizontal then..it's about the endlink being completely 90 degrees. Making sure I understood you properly there?

Hmmph...That being said, so it's not about making sure the bar's actually horizontal then..it's about the endlink being completely 90 degrees. Making sure I understood you properly there?

I don't have the bar sitting in front of me to look at it, but a lot of bars for different cars have curved and or bent pivot arms to get around interfering objects. The endlink should be 90 degrees to the line intersecting the bolt hole and the main cross bar of the sway bar which may or may not be 90 degrees to the end of the pivot arm. If the pivot arm is curved as pictured below the endlink won't be 90 degrees to it.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa243/justjim13/swaybarendlink-1.jpg

the current rules were put in place because of a bhr team member and his constant bashing of others to the point of harassment whose sole point seemed not for info sake but to drive away competition. many could conclude from reading his posts that he is indeed arrogant enough.

I think there are plenty of people who see things differently.

Hmmph...That being said, so it's not about making sure the bar's actually horizontal then..it's about the endlink being completely 90 degrees. Making sure I understood you properly there?

In order for the most efficient movement (what little there is) and accurate setting the end-link SHOULD be at a right-angle to the axis of the swaybar. However, here is a fundamental question;

Why were adjustable end-links invented in the first place? Once we understand the answer to that question the rest becomes obvious. Even better, when we get inside the heads of the OEM suspension design teams we can remember that they have INFINTE end-link length at their disposal when they design the swaybar/end-link system so we must also ask; how do they determine the "proper" length for the end-links and what are they parameters they must take into consideration?

I don't wish to simply bloviate my opinion, I want to teach all of you what I learned with Ford for 8 years and show you how to assess things for yourselves.

dude, i think you just need to get off of his balls and move on.

Whose "balls"? I was addressing Zelse's question.

lol he's helping me out...well..sorta helping me out. :P

So again, my thoughts are this judging by what everyone is telling me..the endlink needs to go 90 degrees upward. That being said, to answer Ray's question..it's adjustable so that when you move the bar upward...with the arm facing more up..obviously you need to do more height adjustment so the endlink can reach out that far. Am I correct?

If anyone missed it, I'm running with Progress Technology Sway bars (2 holes in rear, 3 in front) with Evo-R adjustable endlinks in front and rear, with Stance Coilovers with a light drop..not too conservative..not too aggressive. Just right. :D

Adjustable end links are needed when alterations to the stock suspension change the ride height..or changes to the bar itself change the length or position of the pivot

If you make the links longer or shorter..it doesn't change the pressure on the sway bar...it will just change the angle that the bar tip will rest at...so unless it binds on something it will not impart forces

What people seem to forget here is that the sway is supposed to be set up at zero pre-load so to speak..ie until there is lateral transfer of weight and body roll..they do nothing
Otherwise you are increasing spring rate....much better done with springs :)

Just for info ...if you have an adjustable bar with 3 holes...that gives you 5 different stiffness adjustments..there is no need for both sides to be in the same hole

hole 1-hole 1
hole 1-hole 2
hole 2-hole 2
hole 2- hole3
hole 3-hole 3

Cheers :)

Just for info ...if you have an adjustable bar with 3 holes...that gives you 5 different stiffness adjustments..there is no need for both sides to be in the same hole

hole 1-hole 1
hole 1-hole 2
hole 2-hole 2
hole 2- hole3
hole 3-hole 3

Cheers :)

actually its:

hole 1-hole 1
hole 1-hole 2
hole 1-hole 3
hole 2-hole 2
hole 3-hole 3

because technically hole2- hole3 are the same thing reversed as hole1-hole2

Length of the links makes little to no difference in the stiffness of the bars....it is the lenght of the pivot arm that determines that

yes.

beers :beer:

actually its:

hole 1-hole 1
hole 1-hole 2
hole 1-hole 3
hole 2-hole 2
hole 3-hole 3

because technically hole2- hole3 are the same thing reversed as hole1-hole2

Well...Hole 1-3 is an option...but ;)

1-2 is not the same as 2-3 1-2 is between 1-1 and 2-2 2-3 is between 2-2 and 3-3 ;)
Usually the 1-3 option isn't different than 2-2..except what it does to the endlink alignment

In order for the most efficient movement (what little there is) and accurate setting the end-link SHOULD be at a right-angle to the axis of the swaybar. However, here is a fundamental question;

Why were adjustable end-links invented in the first place? Once we understand the answer to that question the rest becomes obvious.
Alright, I'll give this my best shot. (I am not preaching these answers and I am not overly mechanically inclined, but this is what I found out from a little bit of research + common sense)

IMO, adjustable endlinks were made for adjustable coilovers. If you adjust your coilover height, you can adjust your endlinks to ensure the sway bar is aligned properly.

Along the same lines, even for non-adjustable coilovers / springs, there are various heights out there and a fixed endlink can't accommodate all of them, plus the fact that having different endlinks for each height is impractical.

And third, adjustable endlinks would allow you to put different tension on each side of the car, which you may want to do in certain situations such as compensating for offset weight on one side of the car.

Even better, when we get inside the heads of the OEM suspension design teams we can remember that they have INFINTE end-link length at their disposal when they design the swaybar/end-link system so we must also ask; how do they determine the "proper" length for the end-links and what are they parameters they must take into consideration?
This I have no answer for but eagerly await a response :)

I don't wish to simply bloviate my opinion, I want to teach all of you what I learned with Ford for 8 years and show you how to assess things for yourselves.
:beer05:

In Relation to the Front Sway Bar you want to keep the bar Horizontal(Completely level with the Ground, so adjusting the bolts height so that depending on your ride height making it shorter in length to pull the bar to a horizontal position.

Let me know if that helps or have any other questions.

Upgraded TSB?..

There's a TSB for to replace the stock endlinks. Had mine replaced without question even with aftermarket bars, springs, and shocks. But the newer version failed as well and started clunking again. That's why I went to the strong AP endlinks. The TSB is on the Finish Line site.

^+11111111111111 AP Endlinks FTMFW!!!

I have the AP endlinks for the front. The spherical bearings are exposed to the weather. Because my car is a daily driver, I will be replacing them with something that has a covered bearing surface like the ones that are sold by evo-r.

^Thats a good point. In Vegas we are lucky if we get 2" of rain in one year lol dust is another factor.

I have the AP endlinks for the front. The spherical bearings are exposed to the weather. Because my car is a daily driver, I will be replacing them with something that has a covered bearing surface like the ones that are sold by evo-r.

What can be done to keep the exposed spherical bearings clean? Obviously light oil or lubricant is bad because it will attract dust.

^Well you can check out homedepot for some thing to wrap them in ;)

I am more worried about salt corrosion.

Because of all this:
You can put the lower control arm on jack stands. That loads the spring to give you the proper angle. Also, if the angle of the swaybar ends are adjusted too high, they can bounce against the OEM brake line causing it to fracture and loose fluid.

I would imagine that the best endlink length is that which places the endlink at 90 degrees to the line extending from the attachment hole to the center of the cross-section of the main cross bar when the suspension is loaded at rest (i.e. on the ground).

So - I have the stock suspension / ride height and want to get the Progress Tech bars. I'm assuming that the OEM endlinks are the proper length to use while on the OEM suspension? (concerns about durability aside) My reading so far suggests that if they are installed properly (not upside down) and I'm not doing any serious track driving or anything, the OEM links should be fine. My question is, with the stock ride height, the PT bars should work with the OEM links at around the ideal 90-degree angle?

Also - if this is the case, then there's no need to pre-load everything while setting the bars up? It seems to me that pre-loading is only necessary in order to determine the proper adjustments if using modified springs + adjustable end links. Is that...right?

Thanks guys....

Preloading a sway bar would only be done if you had a specific reason to have a different roll resistance on one side or the other, say if you were fine tuning a track car for a particular problematic corner.

You could also use it to offset the drivers weight but that would be best dealt with in the spring rates not the sway bar. Adjustable endlinks primary purpose is not for preloading, its just for getting the length right for different cars and bars. Generally the left should be the same as the right except for the situations outlined above. You should be OK with the OEM endlinks, reliabiltiy notwithstanding.

when we get inside the heads of the OEM suspension design teams we can remember that they have INFINTE end-link length at their disposal when they design the swaybar/end-link system so we must also ask; how do they determine the "proper" length for the end-links and what are they parameters they must take into consideration?



I'll throw in my $0.02 on sway bar design constraints:

1)Cost-The cheaper you can make it to meet the design criteria the cheaper you can sell the car at the same profit =sell more units or higher profit at a higher cost. What this translates to is the cost of the material and cost of manufacture. I'm not sure if hollow bars are cheaper but I suspect not. So to get the required stiffness and handle the load cycles I need to trade off material cost with manufacturing cost and packaging constraints and weight. If I could make a big enough bar diameter I could make it out of pine wood really cheap. It probably wouldn't fit in the front of the car but hey, it would be cheap. :)

2)Performance-I need to support a pre-determined stiffness ratio and load cycle. I need to select materials and adjust the design to support a calculated amount of flex (inches per pound) This allows me to play with the stiffness of the material and blade length while being constrained by room in the wheel well and durability of the material to handle X thousands of cycles without deforming or failing. It drives material selection, lever arm length, diameter, hollow, solid, filled with peanut butter, etc.

3)Packaging - I have to fit it in to the wheel well and attach it to the frame allowing for full range of motion of the suspension over bumps without hitting anything or otherwise negatively affecting the ride quality or performance. This affects how big a bar diameter I have room for as well as how long I need to make my blade and finally where I can attach my endlinks so I don't hit anything. So my endlink length would be a byproduct of my range of motion requirements and packaging requirements. I need to make sure I can swing the bar through the full range of motion without hitting anything or adversely affecting ride quality and performance.

that's what I "Think."

Preloading a sway bar would only be done if you had a specific reason to have a different roll resistance on one side or the other, say if you were fine tuning a track car for a particular problematic corner.

You could also use it to offset the drivers weight but that would be best dealt with in the spring rates not the sway bar. Adjustable endlinks primary purpose is not for preloading, its just for getting the length right for different cars and bars. Generally the left should be the same as the right except for the situations outlined above. You should be OK with the OEM endlinks, reliabiltiy notwithstanding.
I don't believe there is such a thing as preload on a swaybay. The only way this could be achieved is if it was fixed in the center and each end moved independently. A swaybar by design if one side moves up, the other side is pushed down because it piviots. If on an adjustable bar, you had a non-symmetrical endlink position, it would be the equivilent of the average of the two endlink connection points.

What if you shorten only ONE end-link via the adjustable end-links?

Then you would have a preload. Why would you do that? I was assuming the endlinks would be equal length.

I am trying to engage in a general exercise using THIS particular concept as an example of something. What we all learn will then be able to be applied to the rest of the aftermarket industry and yet another curtain will be pulled back and various mysteries, secrets, and falsehoods will be exposed.

BTW, there are racecars that use preload via the swaybars and that concept may apply to the OEMs as well. I am not sure, though.

I don't believe there is such a thing as preload on a swaybay. The only way this could be achieved is if it was fixed in the center and each end moved independently. A swaybar by design if one side moves up, the other side is pushed down because it piviots. If on an adjustable bar, you had a non-symmetrical endlink position, it would be the equivilent of the average of the two endlink connection points.

I disagree. I'm not advocating the use of preload on sway bars, but it does exist. To use an extreme example if you have very long endlink on one side and a very short one on the other you will have to push very hard on the bar to connect them because you are putting a twist in the bar when the suspension is at rest just to get the endlinks connected. This will cause the car to list to one side (the side with the shorter link will be lower) because the torsion of the sway bar will have compressed the spring on the short endlink side when you forcefully lifted the sway bar to install the extra long endlink.

actually its:

hole 1-hole 1
hole 1-hole 2
hole 1-hole 3
hole 2-hole 2
hole 3-hole 3

because technically hole2- hole3 are the same thing reversed as hole1-hole2

well..

All I want is a whole in one so I can beat Tiger Woods.

Is that possible to set up on the 8?














mu ha ha...................

All I want is a hole in one so I can beat Tiger Woods.

Then you better pray for more than just one. Like 17 more.

Aside from drastic ride height changes, or aftermarket sway bars which would make it impossible to fit the OE fixed length link, it's my understanding that the point of adjustable end-links is to eliminate preload across the sway bars when the car is loaded.

If you have symmetric fixed length end links, as soon as you sit your fat butt in the driver's seat you've preloaded the sways. You can eliminate this with adjustable end links.

If you have symmetric fixed length end links, as soon as you sit your fat butt in the driver's seat you've preloaded the sways. You can eliminate this with adjustable end links.

My butt fat? Are you somewhere near me in Hawaii right now? We are working on cars in the day and eating like pigs at night. I think I will be a legitimate fat-ass by the time I get back to AZ!:lol2:

The real question is; who NEEDS to adjust the pre-load?

The real question is; who NEEDS to adjust the pre-load?

Aside from hardcore race teams? Probably no one. :dunno:

Aside from hardcore race teams? Probably no one. :dunno:
These race teams corner weight the cars. Preloading endlinks wouldn't be neccessary.

Aside from hardcore race teams? Probably no one. :dunno:

I agree

ha ha...

I have mine corner weighed and love the handling.

These race teams corner weight the cars. Preloading endlinks wouldn't be neccessary.

They do it though. Just gotta know which teams.

They do it though. Just gotta know which teams.

Is it only the teams which take left hand turns? I.e., NASCAR?

I have read that to be the case.

very helpful thread... maybe ill be able to decide on my suspesion setup someday now! whats a good front sway bar thats adjustabe that i can use with lowering my car around .5 inches all around? and will i need adjustable sway links? sorry im new to suspension setup... thanks for all the info so far!!

Great tech related thread!

very helpful thread... maybe ill be able to decide on my suspesion setup someday now! whats a good front sway bar thats adjustabe that i can use with lowering my car around .5 inches all around? and will i need adjustable sway links? sorry im new to suspension setup... thanks for all the info so far!!

I sell the Progress Tech swaybars for $310, shipped, and I have them in stock right now.
My suspension is dropped 3/4" and I do not have adjustable end-links. No problems over the past 4+ years, either.