It seems like a lot of people have been comparing the two of these cars in this part of the board lately... So, duke it out in this thread!

What are your opinions on the RX-8 vs. Evo VIII on the track? The only concrete data I can find that compares the two are the Top Gear test track lap times. They were both by the same driver. The RX-8 ran 1'31.8'' while the Evo ran 1'28.9''. These were not US Spec cars however.

In AutoX, I would think the Evo has the advantage because it can come out of corners with more grip. However, the power difference isn't as evident here as it would be on a roadcourse.

I think performance wise the Evo is a step above the RX-8 in pretty much every aspect, I believe the Evo would spank the RX-8 on pretty much any track, the thing is basically a street legal race car. But I don't want a race car. I want a daily driver that has some style, if I bought the car strictly for racing or if I needed a daily driver that I also wanted to be really competitive on the track then I would definately pick the Evo over the RX.

Being that I live in Canada we can't even buy the Evo here so it wasn't even an option for me. If it was available I'd put it into the same category as the STi while I was car shopping before I decided on the RX-8. They've got loads of power, great handling and overall they are kickass performace cars. The problem is they have absolutly no style or character, the interior looks like it came out of last years old parts bin and the exterior does nothing for me. They just look boring. I wanted a car that has some style, a car that people do a double-take on when I drive by. The Evo and STi are simply too plain looking other than whats under the hood, they're a blast to drive but so is the 8, even though it's not nearly as fast.

If all I cared about was speed and performance then it would have been a tough choice between the Evo and STi (if we could get the Evo here that is). I don't think these cars can even be compared with the 8, they're just so different. The 8 will still hold its own on a track and I'll be much more satisfied with it as an everyday car.

This is only my opinion though, based on what I was looking for in a car, so I'm sure others might disagree.

The EVO wins in every category save for autox where the 8 has a advantage due to the importance of oversteer on a course like that as well as the tight turns that will get the turbo out of it's spool range.

When the hell will people stop comparing the 8 to other cars? Hell yes the EVO will beat an 8.....

And a Z06 will smoke an EVO, and a used one will cost less. Who the F cares. If bragging rights is your thing, then get what ever is fastest.

All I can say is I am stoked driving my 8 to the freakin super market! Fun, fun, fun.....

Hey Jag, Canada is alright :) Nice post!

In just about every area of performance (except braking is which is basically even between the two cara), the EVO is a few notches above the RX8.

Originally posted by IkeWRX
The EVO wins in every category save for autox where the 8 has a advantage due to the importance of oversteer on a course like that as well as the tight turns that will get the turbo out of it's spool range.

Left foot braking brother, left foot braking...

Originally posted by IkeWRX
The EVO wins in every category save for autox where the 8 has a advantage due to the importance of oversteer on a course like that as well as the tight turns that will get the turbo out of it's spool range.

Unlike the WRX the EVO spools pretty quick hitting full boost at 3500 rpms. So the power range is from 3500-7000 rpms...I doubt any autocross course will get you out of that range.

What is the point of comparing a turbo'd up AWD econo car (interiorwise) to a N/A RWD touring car?

You are comparing apples to oranges here.. How about Evo vs Sti? The Sti beats the Evo in just about every acceleration catagory.. What is there to duke out? I havn't seen anybody here really care about comparing the 2 cars except for you.

Originally posted by 350z Driver
What is the point of comparing a turbo'd up AWD econo car (interiorwise) to a N/A RWD touring car?

You are comparing apples to oranges here.. How about Evo vs Sti? The Sti beats the Evo in just about every acceleration catagory.. What is there to duke out? I havn't seen anybody here really care about comparing the 2 cars except for you.

Well because they are both sporting cars that seat four for about the same price? :confused: Most people don't care about the drivetrain when choosing a car.

As for the STI vs EVO, the EVO has won just about every comparison in the car mags and they pull nearly the same times on road courses, with the EVO being slightly ahead in more of the tests. Since the braking is similar and the STI has an edge in acceleration, the EVO does this through superior handling. Then you have to consider the detonation issues with the STI and the 4G63's (and the 5 speed transmission's) existence for so long that leads to more reliability (most likely) and being more responsive to mods (and safely), at least currently. However, for most, the cars are so close that it really comes down to personal preferences.

However, don't worry. Both of these "AWD economy cars" will beat that nissan coupe with the altima engine in autox, on a dragstrip and a roadcourse in stock form (add $2,000 in mods - enough to still be cheaper than the track model- and its not even close).

Originally posted by 350z Driver
What is the point of comparing a turbo'd up AWD econo car (interiorwise) to a N/A RWD touring car?

You are comparing apples to oranges here.. How about Evo vs Sti? The Sti beats the Evo in just about every acceleration catagory.. What is there to duke out? I havn't seen anybody here really care about comparing the 2 cars except for you.


You want to compare the STi and the EVO, it's prettymuch a dogfight. The SRI gets the acceleration and slightly better daily driver category, and the EVO gets the slightly better handling and modability (for now) category. You can't go wrong either way and most EVO and STi drivers will agree that you can't go wrong with either car.

Wombat, the slower spool time on the WRX is diue to it's more emission friendly setup, which is very easily taken care of and is not the case with the STi. However a well sorted RWD car will still have the advantage on an autox track which by no means implies it's a better track car but just better when it comes to tight slow speed turns which are few and far between on actual race tracks. I know it has a lot to do with the driver, but it seems the STi (in my region) is turning out to be a better autox car than the EVO. Though on a more wide open racetrack it seems the EVO can make up for lost time in the straights compared to the STi. It's almost a push, the STi likes to get a little more sideways on the track and the EVO will stay on the best racing line a little better. It seems they will run almost identical track times with a very different style and feel, which is surprising considering the similarities with these cars.


Ike

Originally posted by IkeWRX
I know it has a lot to do with the driver, but it seems the STi (in my region) is turning out to be a better autox car than the EVO.
Ike

I know some guys on evolutionm.net have dominated some local events, but here are the AS results from the nationals this year:

http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/nationals/2003/results/groups/as.html

Both the EVO and STI looked very strong.

Originally posted by 350z Driver
What is the point of comparing a turbo'd up AWD econo car (interiorwise) to a N/A RWD touring car?

You are comparing apples to oranges here.. How about Evo vs Sti? The Sti beats the Evo in just about every acceleration catagory.. What is there to duke out? I havn't seen anybody here really care about comparing the 2 cars except for you.

Why compare the two? Because people were comparing them in other threads in the Competition forum. Its easier to have on thread to look at. :)

Originally posted by 350z Driver
What is the point of comparing a turbo'd up AWD econo car (interiorwise) to a N/A RWD touring car?


The point of comparing the two is that for me they fell into the same catagory along with the 350z, STi, and G35. I didn't care about drivetrain, number of doors, leather, dvd navigation....I cared about which car was the most fun, along with a sticker of around $30k.

I'm not alone either...I know that revhappy was in the same boat as me. I originally was dead set on an RX8 but was crushed when I found out the horsepower. I knew then that the car would not cut it. I still have doubts in my mind everytime I see an RX8 because it is a beautiful car. Wish I had the pockets to have both. The EVO is awesome though and I have no regrets...it's not as good looking but from the drivers seat who cares. From the first time I took the EVO out I knew I was hooked.

This is a real bad comparison IMO. the EVO will beat an RX8 in every category of performance.......

for comparison

Originally posted by AbusiveWombat
I cared about which car was the most fun

I originally was dead set on an RX8 but was crushed when I found out the horsepower. I knew then that the car would not cut it.

These two statements are inconsistent, unless you define fun by straight line acceleration. Perfect example - many people consider a Miata to be the most fun car available on the market today, yet it's slower than any of the more expensive $30K cars. Obviously your definition of fun is far more oriented to HP ratings and straight line acceleration rather than handling feel and responsiveness, if 9 missing hp would crush you. Too bad you didn't have any faith, and now you can't recover 25 wheel hp with the $500 Canzoomer ECU mod! :D

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
These two statements are inconsistent, unless you define fun by straight line acceleration. Perfect example - many people consider a Miata to be the most fun car available on the market today, yet it's slower than any of the more expensive $30K cars. Obviously your definition of fun is far more oriented to HP ratings and straight line acceleration rather than handling feel and responsiveness, if 9 missing hp would crush you. Too bad you didn't have any faith, and now you can't recover 25 wheel hp with the $500 Canzoomer ECU mod! :D

Regards,
Gordon

I have driven both and really there is no comparison in terms of handling and responsiveness. The RX8 is marketed for a wider audience, thus making the compromises (i.e. soft suspension, slow steering, excess weight from suicide doors and related bracing, etc) that are an anathema to guys like Wombat and me.

As for the intangibles, one of the EVO's strongpoints is that its an incredible drivers car - i.e. great steering feel, pedal placement, gearbox, seats, engine sound, etc. This was one of my complaints with the RX8 (novacain-like steering, engine that was too quiet, etc.).

In regards to Canzoomer's product, we can add an additional 25-30 WHP with an ECU reflash (which I'm betting is safer if you consider the number of times its been done and its use of a rich fuel air-fuel mixture) from what was originally advertized.

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
These two statements are inconsistent, unless you define fun by straight line acceleration. Perfect example - many people consider a Miata to be the most fun car available on the market today, yet it's slower than any of the more expensive $30K cars. Obviously your definition of fun is far more oriented to HP ratings and straight line acceleration rather than handling feel and responsiveness, if 9 missing hp would crush you. Too bad you didn't have any faith, and now you can't recover 25 wheel hp with the $500 Canzoomer ECU mod! :D

Regards,
Gordon

I made my decision before the horsepower issues. Even at the 250 hp it was still going to be the slowest in the group of cars I was considering (350z, EVO, STi, S2000, RX8).

You see, fun for me is the entire package. Handling, acceleration, feel...the RX8 has two but is seriously lacking in acceleration. Fun is being able to lay the smack down on your average RSX-S with exhaust, or your average Civic that thinks his car is quick. Somehow I would feel ripped off if I could barely walk the two above...or be beat by either. But that's the juvinile side of me.

Also, I put more emphasis on acceleration than handling because taking a car to it's handling limit is dangerous on the street but acceleration is something you can tap into every day.

I'm not worried I made the wrong move. Even with Canzoomers ECU it's still a mid-low 14's car. Then you add exhaust and air filter and you're finally where the EVO is stock in terms of rolling acceleration. For the EVO, with equal spending, you're looking at mid 12's at 110 mph which is '03 Cobra acceleration. For around $2200 you're looking at a car that can hang with a Z06 on any track any day of the week....and it can hold 4 and has a usable trunk. You can't beat a turbo for easy performance.

I guess you bought the right car for yourself then. Congrats, the Evo is definitely a great performer. I would really love to test drive an Evo sometime, maybe over winter break. In fact, I used to check out the evo forums fairly often.

This car definitely suffers from raised expectations. Everybody expected the next rx-7, but the rx-8 was designed with different goals in mind. Here are excerpts from an interview of the rx-8 program manager:

"...our main customers...voiced a desire for more civility in sporty cars....we thought it was a good idea to biuld a sports car that could also cater to their everyday lifestyles. The second reason we built the rx-8 is we firmly believe that Mazda is the only carmaker capable of building it. The compactness of the rotary engine allowed us to create a car with sports-car styling, while provide a generous size interior....So in short, we built the rx-8 because we could."

Can cars such as the Evo and WRX be considered sports cars?

"The proportions of those 4-door cars are not those of a sports car....The cabin of sports cars should look smaller....They are sporty cars, with performance probably as high or higher than most sports cars, but they are not sports cars to me."

Because the rx-8's rotary engine is naturally-aspirated, did you have concerns about the lack of low- and mid-range torque?

"Not really. Of course...low- and mid-range torque is down (in comparison to the tt rx-7). However, we didn't want to give the rx-8 a pure sports-car, head-snapping feel. We wanted to give it smoothness and linearity...those who want more power will be able to customize the car in their own way, whether that be in the form of a turbocharger or supercharger kit."

These are both great cars without a doubt, but they were built to achieve totally different goals. The evo is a racecar straight from the box, but without traditional sports car dimensions, i.e. what a mod would do if he had an unlimited budget to modify a lancer. The 8 has the sports car look and feel, but it simply doesn't have the same power, so you're going to have modify it to achieve that goal.

Those are the facts, and I believe them to be indisputable :)

Now that I've said all that, I still prefer the 8. I think it's well-designed inside and out. Most of the design was decided by how to take maximal advantage of the rotary. The evo has been around for how long, and how many problems are evo 8 owners having now? Not that the 8 is without it's problems, but they seem to be more rare, plus at least mazda is doing it's best to honor the warranties (we'll see if that lasts). That's just in the first year, it will only get better. Mitsubishi seems to be antagonizing lots of evo owners because of their attitude over things like the problems with the clutch (among other things). Comparing polls in both this forum and an evo forum (evolutionm), it seems rx-8 owners are much happier than evo owners.

In the end, the 8 has the traditional sports car looks with ability to carry 4 people and with a sizeable trunk. In addition, it has superior design (imo), plus the distinctiveness (and beauty) of the rotary engine that makes the design of the car even possible. Those that want more power can wait for the aftermarket to catch up, and it will.

I'm not absolutely certain here, but mazda is hoping to sell many more 8's this year than evo's numbers in the first year, right? What are the numbers exactly? Just the sheer number of 8's that will be sold, plus the clamor for more power, practically guarantees a huge aftermarket for the 8.

I think the real comparison will be evo vs heavily modded 8, once the parts are available. To quote the inimitable Bruce Campbell, "Well, who's laughin' now?"

It seems that everytime one tries to talk about the performance of the RX-8, everyone falls back on the same excuses. No one on this board (the COMPETITION/RACING board, btw) seems to want to discuss Competition/Racing. Try to keep the posts on topic please. I don't want to hear anymore excuses about well, Mazda designed the car this way, bla, bla, bla.

WTH, that's exactly the point. They just were not aiming to make the 8 compete with the evo. It's not like a car company can design a whole car and accidentally get much better performance than what they were shooting for.

Any perceived shortcomings in the performance of the 8 were EXACTLY what Mazda designed it to have, nothing more. I'm not making ANY excuses, in fact I'm CONCEDING the WHOLE argument that the evo performs better because Mazda didn't DESIGN the 8 to outperform the evo. Anybody that will argue otherwise has no idea how well an evo performs.

Now a modded 8 or new 7 vs an evo 8 would be interesting. I just think there's not much of a contest with a stock 8 vs stock evo performance-wise.

Does it help you feel better about yourself to win an easy argument, rebel? Now, why don't you challenge yourself and go over to the Nissan forums and bait the 350Z fans. Better yet, go all out and bait the STi fans.

Actually, I just noticed something funny. I think none of the rx-8 owners even argued that the 8 performed better than the evo. This thread is just a bunch of evo owners justifying their purchase of an evo over the 8 (except for ike of course ;) ). It seems to me that you evo guys are jealous of the 8 and need an ego boost, and the rx-8 people here have a big enough ego already :)

Originally posted by rabinabo
Now that I've said all that, I still prefer the 8. I think it's well-designed inside and out. Most of the design was decided by how to take maximal advantage of the rotary. The evo has been around for how long, and how many problems are evo 8 owners having now? Not that the 8 is without it's problems, but they seem to be more rare, plus at least mazda is doing it's best to honor the warranties (we'll see if that lasts). That's just in the first year, it will only get better. Mitsubishi seems to be antagonizing lots of evo owners because of their attitude over things like the problems with the clutch (among other things). Comparing polls in both this forum and an evo forum (evolutionm), it seems rx-8 owners are much happier than evo owners.

In the end, the 8 has the traditional sports car looks with ability to carry 4 people and with a sizeable trunk. In addition, it has superior design (imo), plus the distinctiveness (and beauty) of the rotary engine that makes the design of the car even possible. Those that want more power can wait for the aftermarket to catch up, and it will.

I'm not absolutely certain here, but mazda is hoping to sell many more 8's this year than evo's numbers in the first year, right? What are the numbers exactly? Just the sheer number of 8's that will be sold, plus the clamor for more power, practically guarantees a huge aftermarket for the 8.

I think the real comparison will be evo vs heavily modded 8, once the parts are available. To quote the inimitable Bruce Campbell, "Well, who's laughin' now?"

I spend too much time on here and evolutionm.net so I think I can compare the two cars problems. Essentially, the EVO's issues are the clutch and the paint. Now, the overwhelming majority of problems with the clutch on the EVO are due to people who drag race a lot. An AWD car puts a lot of stress on the drivetrain and often the clutch is purposely designed to be the weakest link. This is due to the fact that the clutch is the cheapest and easiest component of the drivetrain to fix. Still, a steel clutch line or an upgraded clutch have been used by many who want to get rid of this problem (though at the risk of causing more expensive repairs). As for the paint, well it chips easily and that is a legitimate flaw.

Now the RX8 - has had a TON of first year issues. It makes less power and gets worse fuel economy from what was advertized. There are the air conditioning and excessive cabin heat problems. There are also the flooding issues and there have been a few complete engine failures. When I first started lurking on this board, there were questions as to whether to wait a year or two to let Mazda workout the kinks, that would have been a good idea in retrospect.

As to the design of the car, you are correct rabinado. As it became more apparent that Mazda did not design this to be a top-notch sports car (in performance), my interest waned and the EVO captured it.

Originally posted by rebelzx
It seems that everytime one tries to talk about the performance of the RX-8, everyone falls back on the same excuses. No one on this board (the COMPETITION/RACING board, btw) seems to want to discuss Competition/Racing. Try to keep the posts on topic please. I don't want to hear anymore excuses about well, Mazda designed the car this way, bla, bla, bla.

What Excuses? rebelzx

Here is a Little COMPETITION/RACING for you.

At the December Houston SCCA AutoX held Dec 6 2003.
221 drivers competed, out of those :

4 - RX8 best time 37.060
2- EVO best time 39.465
5 - STi best time 38.545
6 - WRX best time 38.846

3 of the 4 RX8s that competed bested ALL the EVOs and Sti/WRXs

Out of the combined classes (including prepared and modifierd) and 221 drivers the Stock RX8 had 2 entries in the top 10 times, 4th and 7th.

In the Stock classes, RX8 took 2nd, 3rd, and 4th best overall times in all stock classes bested only by a national ranked Porsche Boxter. The EVO was about 25th with a 39.465 time

For the last three months the same results have been posted, and the turbo-econo-box crowd keep ignoring the facts.

RX8 kicks BUTT on the course and Track

Originally posted by renotse
What Excuses? rebelzx

Here is a Little COMPETITION/RACING for you.

At the December Houston SCCA AutoX held Dec 6 2003.
221 drivers competed, out of those :

4 - RX8 best time 37.060
2- EVO best time 39.465
5 - STi best time 38.545
6 - WRX best time 38.846

3 of the 4 RX8s that competed bested ALL the EVOs and Sti/WRXs

Out of the combined classes (including prepared and modifierd) and 221 drivers the Stock RX8 had 2 entries in the top 10 times, 4th and 7th.

In the Stock classes, RX8 took 2nd, 3rd best overall times in all stock classes bested only by a national ranked Porsche Boxter.

For the last three months the same results have been posted, and the turbo-econo-box crowd keep ignoring the facts.

RX8 kicks BUTT on the course and Track

I didn't see any at the Solo II Nationals where the EVO's bested all the S2Ks. I guess we'll have to wait for next year's to see the RX8's. However, I will admit I have been impressed by the RX8's performance at the local autox events so far.

I think EVO suppose to compare with STI, not RX8. :o Peace.

Originally posted by revhappy
I didn't see any at the Solo II Nationals where the EVO's bested all the S2Ks. I guess we'll have to wait for next year's to see the RX8's. However, I will admit I have been impressed by the RX8's performance at the local autox events so far.

revhappy,

I was not able to attend the Nationals so I can not comment from personal experience on them. I presume from your bold statements that you were in attendance so I can l not refute your statements.
But for those of us who are less fortunate please elaborate on this Point. "the EVO's bested all the S2Ks"

I have searched the web and all I can find on the result at the below link. From that page I surmised the following:

a) Only 1 EVO was ranked in top 10 of AStock and it placed 9th with a score of 116.483, No S2000 was ranked in AStock

b) 7 - S2000s ranked in top 10 of BStock 1,2,3,5,7,8,9 with scores ranging from 113.291 to 114.901, all of which are better than the 116.483 EVO score.

c)David Hedderick placed 11th in BStock with a score of 115.051, which is better than the best EVO. David is the benchmark that Tim is using to gage his performance (and darn close now). I assume if Tim's progress continues as it has there will be no Stock EVO anywhere that can touch him.

SCCA Finals page (http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/nationals/2003/index.html)

revhappy, Please correct me if I am wrong.

I made it to 3 races this year as I had never auto-x before. So I am a novice at this sorta thing. I do have some track experience from about 10 years ago, but this was with much slower cars :D (19 and in Mexico? yeah, I couldnt race with the big boys).

However I did manage to palce middle of the pack in BS for all 3 races, running 100% stock. My very first race I managed the worst time of the track, and then knocked 16 seconds off it to place 7th out of 13.

So yeah, it's fun for me!

renotse posted:

"revhappy,

I was not able to attend the Nationals so I can not comment from personal experience on them. I presume from your bold statements that you were in attendance so I can l not refute your statements.
But for those of us who are less fortunate please elaborate on this Point. "the EVO's bested all the S2Ks"

I have searched the web and all I can find on the result at the below link. From that page I surmised the following:

a) Only 1 EVO was ranked in top 10 of AStock and it placed 9th with a score of 116.483, No S2000 was ranked in AStock

b) 7 - S2000s ranked in top 10 of BStock 1,2,3,5,7,8,9 with scores ranging from 113.291 to 114.901, all of which are better than the 116.483 EVO score.

c)David Hedderick placed 11th in BStock with a score of 115.051, which is better than the best EVO. David is the benchmark that Tim is using to gage his performance (and darn close now). I assume if Tim's progress continues as it has there will be no Stock EVO anywhere that can touch him.

SCCA Finals page

revhappy, Please correct me if I am wrong."

This is exactly what happens when you call their bluff, they go and hide and act like they did not see your post. Exact same thing happened a month ago. Renotse, I wish you would quit clouding this discussion with facts.

Plus, add to this that 350Z times are usually the worst of the whole group (when they run).

Good post renotse!!! Save this one, and when they do come back, repost it, we can use it like garlic on a vampire.;)

Originally posted by Chuck Clifford
This is exactly what happens when you call their bluff, they go and hide and act like they did not see your post. Exact same thing happened a month ago. Renotse, I wish you would quit clouding this discussion with facts.

Plus, add to this that 350Z times are usually the worst of the whole group (when they run).

Good post renotse!!! Save this one, and when they do come back, repost it, we can use it like garlic on a vampire.;)

I'm sure this post will get erased like the last two. Never underestimate the editorial power of a EVO or WRX guy:D

Originally posted by renotse
revhappy,

I was not able to attend the Nationals so I can not comment from personal experience on them. I presume from your bold statements that you were in attendance so I can l not refute your statements.
But for those of us who are less fortunate please elaborate on this Point. "the EVO's bested all the S2Ks"

I have searched the web and all I can find on the result at the below link. From that page I surmised the following:

a) Only 1 EVO was ranked in top 10 of AStock and it placed 9th with a score of 116.483, No S2000 was ranked in AStock

b) 7 - S2000s ranked in top 10 of BStock 1,2,3,5,7,8,9 with scores ranging from 113.291 to 114.901, all of which are better than the 116.483 EVO score.

c)David Hedderick placed 11th in BStock with a score of 115.051, which is better than the best EVO. David is the benchmark that Tim is using to gage his performance (and darn close now). I assume if Tim's progress continues as it has there will be no Stock EVO anywhere that can touch him.

SCCA Finals page (http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/nationals/2003/index.html)

revhappy, Please correct me if I am wrong.

I stand corrected. For some reason, I thought the EVO did better than the S2K's. That being said, it should be interesting how the EVO does in the next few years (the S2K is has been out for four years). However, its tough to geta good, definitive comparison of the RX8 and the EVO due to the limited sample of direct comparisons and the huge variable of driver skill in autox.

Just curious, have you guys done anything to alter your stock setup during your events?

Originally posted by Chuck Clifford
renotse posted:

"revhappy,

I was not able to attend the Nationals so I can not comment from personal experience on them. I presume from your bold statements that you were in attendance so I can l not refute your statements.
But for those of us who are less fortunate please elaborate on this Point. "the EVO's bested all the S2Ks"

I have searched the web and all I can find on the result at the below link. From that page I surmised the following:

a) Only 1 EVO was ranked in top 10 of AStock and it placed 9th with a score of 116.483, No S2000 was ranked in AStock

b) 7 - S2000s ranked in top 10 of BStock 1,2,3,5,7,8,9 with scores ranging from 113.291 to 114.901, all of which are better than the 116.483 EVO score.

c)David Hedderick placed 11th in BStock with a score of 115.051, which is better than the best EVO. David is the benchmark that Tim is using to gage his performance (and darn close now). I assume if Tim's progress continues as it has there will be no Stock EVO anywhere that can touch him.

SCCA Finals page

revhappy, Please correct me if I am wrong."

This is exactly what happens when you call their bluff, they go and hide and act like they did not see your post. Exact same thing happened a month ago. Renotse, I wish you would quit clouding this discussion with facts.

Plus, add to this that 350Z times are usually the worst of the whole group (when they run).

Good post renotse!!! Save this one, and when they do come back, repost it, we can use it like garlic on a vampire.;)

As I said in my earlier post, there is not enough of a sample to assess the ability of these two cars (even though the EVO was initially put in the higher class). So far, I am pleasantly surprised at the RX8's autox performance, but I think most people consider road course performance more important. Given that the EVO generally beats the S2K by a few seconds (former s2k owners now driving EVOs), I think its safe to say the EVO should win on just about any course.

Originally posted by revhappy
....its tough to geta good, definitive comparison of the RX8 and the EVO due to the limited sample of direct comparisons and the huge variable of driver skill in autox.

I agree, and we are probably gonna have to wait quite some time until there is a good sample of 8's (both) in the competition arena. However, I am aware that both (Evo & S2K) are much better suited for a race course and AutoX. Nevertheless, I have faith in the RX8 standing its ground as time goes by and more cars are taken out there.

Originally posted by revhappy
I spend too much time on here and evolutionm.net so I think I can compare the two cars problems. Essentially, the EVO's issues are the clutch and the paint. Now, the overwhelming majority of problems with the clutch on the EVO are due to people who drag race a lot. An AWD car puts a lot of stress on the drivetrain and often the clutch is purposely designed to be the weakest link. This is due to the fact that the clutch is the cheapest and easiest component of the drivetrain to fix. Still, a steel clutch line or an upgraded clutch have been used by many who want to get rid of this problem (though at the risk of causing more expensive repairs). As for the paint, well it chips easily and that is a legitimate flaw.

Yeah, I used to spend too much time at evolutionm.net also. :) Your argument about the clutch being designed as the weakest link makes sense. There do seem to be people that don't abuse the clutch and still have to replace them after a few 1000 miles. There are also those brake issues (which seem to be fixable by upgrading the pads). I just think of it as sign of things to come. We'll see what long-term issues come up and how Mitsu deals with them (if they do).

Originally posted by revhappy
Now the RX8 - has had a TON of first year issues. It makes less power and gets worse fuel economy from what was advertized. There are the air conditioning and excessive cabin heat problems. There are also the flooding issues and there have been a few complete engine failures. When I first started lurking on this board, there were questions as to whether to wait a year or two to let Mazda workout the kinks, that would have been a good idea in retrospect.

As to the design of the car, you are correct rabinado. As it became more apparent that Mazda did not design this to be a top-notch sports car (in performance), my interest waned and the EVO captured it.

I'm straddling the fence in this debate as I don't own either car (although I do lean towards the rx-8). Overall, people tend to justify their car purchase by overlooking the issues with their own cars and exaggerating the problems in other cars. When asked about the evo, evo owners never mention that AWD inherently has more power loss due to the drivetrain, whereas that's the first thing rx-8 owners comment on.

I think the mileage problems are exaggerated, especially since non-8 owners here tend to quote the absolute worst mileage numbers reported for the 8. We'll see whether the power/mileage can be fixed by the aftermarket, and that may affect my decision to buy an 8 vs. evo. The a/c problems are being dealt with by Mazda it seems, and the cabin heat doesn't seem to be an issue for the vast majority.

Flooding can be avoided, and the engines that have failed have been completely replaced by Mazda, so they're definitely backing up the 8. Plus, it seems worse than it probably is because they're trying to find out what the problem is. Most likely the engine could have been repaired, but Mazda just replaces the whole engine so they can analyze it completely. Again this is a new engine, and unlike the evo engine hasn't been in production for very long.

Right now, the performance of the 8 is still phenomenal for me (coming from a ford escort), and I'm aware that after a while I'd get used to it and want more power. That's when I'd do some serious modding and try to give the evos a run for their money,

Originally posted by rabinabo
Yeah, I used to spend too much time at evolutionm.net also. :) Your argument about the clutch being designed as the weakest link makes sense. There do seem to be people that don't abuse the clutch and still have to replace them after a few 1000 miles. There are also those brake issues (which seem to be fixable by upgrading the pads). I just think of it as sign of things to come. We'll see what long-term issues come up and how Mitsu deals with them (if they do).

When pressed, just about everyone of them admits that they have drag-raced or done clutch drops. As for the brakes, I have heard of some guys compalining about warped rotors, but again it seems the guys who abuse or at least work them extremely hard seem to come dowm with this issue. The main concers for me are the engine and areas further up the drivetrain, which seem to be solid and proven (been around more or less for ten plus years).

Originally posted by rabinabo
Right now, the performance of the 8 is still phenomenal for me (coming from a ford escort), and I'm aware that after a while I'd get used to it and want more power. That's when I'd do some serious modding and try to give the evos a run for their money,

I'm coming from a Ford Escort too! I drove it for over ten years and it was my only car during that time!

renotse: Much better. :D

Hey, that's right, I did notice that you have a fort escort. I still have my 98 zx2, and I'm still fairly happy with it. Heck, I still outaccelerate most cars around here (La Jolla) at lights, but that's because everybody drives like an old lady. I occasionally go to auto-x, but I plan on becoming more of a regular with my next car.

I'm really looking forward to that big improvement in performance. Possible choices are an rx-8, evo, sti, or g35. If I consider two-seaters (unlikely), I would also think about a miata, s2000, and 350z.

The g35 seems to have lots of fans, but I'm sorry, that's not a skyline replacement. The awd model is a sedan AND it only comes with an automatic transmission! Sorry, try again.

For me (and most people I think), the evo and sti are appealing purely because of their incredible performance. With the 8, you have the draw of exotic looks, unique engine, excellent design overall, along with a very stiff body and good suspension design that I can possibly use as a base for a street/track car. When I have the handling where I want it (along with plenty of practice), I can then go with a super- or turbo- charger and see what she's capable of.

Originally posted by rabinabo
Hey, that's right, I did notice that you have a fort escort. I still have my 98 zx2, and I'm still fairly happy with it. Heck, I still outaccelerate most cars around here (La Jolla) at lights, but that's because everybody drives like an old lady. I occasionally go to auto-x, but I plan on becoming more of a regular with my next car.

I'm really looking forward to that big improvement in performance. Possible choices are an rx-8, evo, sti, or g35. If I consider two-seaters (unlikely), I would also think about a miata, s2000, and 350z.

The g35 seems to have lots of fans, but I'm sorry, that's not a skyline replacement. The awd model is a sedan AND it only comes with an automatic transmission! Sorry, try again.

For me (and most people I think), the evo and sti are appealing purely because of their incredible performance. With the 8, you have the draw of exotic looks, unique engine, excellent design overall, along with a very stiff body and good suspension design that I can possibly use as a base for a street/track car. When I have the handling where I want it (along with plenty of practice), I can then go with a super- or turbo- charger and see what she's capable of.

Think about the change, 88 HP to 271 HP! Granted, its 900 pounds heavier, but its still a huge difference. Don't worry, I just got a Honda Civic as a new beater with a monsterous 106 HP. :p

That's a nice choice of cars. I'm not so sure I would have bought an EVO, if I bought lived in California due to the great weather and crappy gasoline. Many of the EVO's tests were done in Cali with the 91 Octane gas - which might explain why some people have beaten the Mag.times. I still envy your living in LaJolla as I have always wanted to live in the San Diego area.

Yeah, living here does tend to spoil you. :) Although I'll most likely be moving to the east coast for my next job, which will mean worse weather and no good mexican food, but the job will allow me to buy that new car :)

The zx2 has a total of 132 hp (I think), so yeah, the evo would have twice the power with an extra axle to drive :) It is awefully tempting I'll admit, and for a while I was formulating a plan to modify my evo with a Shiv Stage 1 and more :) Regardless I'm going to try to take a test drive in the Evo to have an informed opinion.

However, check out the comparison in dimensions between the zx2, 8, and evo (in inches:

length 175.2 174.3 178.5
height 52.3 52.8 57.1
width 67.4 69.7 69.7
wheel base 98.4 106.4 103.3
curb weight 2464 3000? 3263

I like that the 8 keeps the roofline almost as high as my zx2. The evo is almost 5 inches taller. Now look at the length vs wheelbase. The 8 is the shortest, yet has much longer wheel base (ok, not so much more than the evo). Amazingly, the 8 has much more room in the back compared to my zx2. That's one of the main reasons I think the rx-8 is more complete package.

Originally posted by rabinabo
Yeah, living here does tend to spoil you. :) Although I'll most likely be moving to the east coast for my next job, which will mean worse weather and no good mexican food, but the job will allow me to buy that new car :)

I'd be happy to switch residences with you! :D

Originally posted by renotse
What Excuses? rebelzx

Here is a Little COMPETITION/RACING for you.

At the December Houston SCCA AutoX held Dec 6 2003.
221 drivers competed, out of those :

4 - RX8 best time 37.060
2- EVO best time 39.465
5 - STi best time 38.545
6 - WRX best time 38.846

3 of the 4 RX8s that competed bested ALL the EVOs and Sti/WRXs

Out of the combined classes (including prepared and modifierd) and 221 drivers the Stock RX8 had 2 entries in the top 10 times, 4th and 7th.

In the Stock classes, RX8 took 2nd, 3rd, and 4th best overall times in all stock classes bested only by a national ranked Porsche Boxter. The EVO was about 25th with a 39.465 time

For the last three months the same results have been posted, and the turbo-econo-box crowd keep ignoring the facts.

RX8 kicks BUTT on the course and Track

The thing you don't get is most serious autox guys compete within their class, where they finish out of all classes is just gravy. The BS cars are usually some of the fastest cars out there and there's a reason why they are all in the same class together, they are sorted very very well for autox courses.

However, it does bug me that you keep using the Houston example and the Top Gear test as an example when there is much more evidence that the S2K is still the better car in BS and that the EVO & STi is a better car around a real track. The level of driver skill in autox is so far ranging that using one example of some RX-8s toping other cars in one region means little.

Ike

Originally posted by IkeWRX
The thing you don't get is most serious autox guys compete within their class, where they finish out of all classes is just gravy. The BS cars are usually some of the fastest cars out there and there's a reason why they are all in the same class together, they are sorted very very well for autox courses.

However, it does bug me that you keep using the Houston example and the Top Gear test as an example when there is much more evidence that the S2K is still the better car in BS and that the EVO & STi is a better car around a real track. The level of driver skill in autox is so far ranging that using one example of some RX-8s toping other cars in one region means little.

Ike

Only time will tell...

Originally posted by IkeWRX
The thing you don't get is most serious autox guys compete within their class, where they finish out of all classes is just gravy.

I disagree. Many run in X class

Originally posted by IkeWRX
The BS cars are usually some of the fastest cars out there and there's a reason why they are all in the same class together, they are sorted very very well for autox courses.

I agree, Rx8s are quicker on the course than EVO and WRX

Originally posted by IkeWRX
However, it does bug me that you keep using the Houston example and the Top Gear test as an example when there is much more evidence that the S2K is still the better car in BS and that the EVO & STi is a better car around a real track. The level of driver skill in autox is so far ranging that using one example of some RX-8s toping other cars in one region means little.

Ike

I strongly disagree. This may be true in your region but we have Nationaly competitive AutoX drivers here. One is David Hedderick and his Boxter, who finished 11th in the Solo II Nationals BS. That makes him one of the fastest in the Nation and a pretty good benchmark. David beat a ton of top S2000 to get there.

Tim Pryor's RX8 has been narrowly beaten by David for the past 3 months and came within .074 this weekend of beating David. He might just do it in the future.

As for you Ike it's ok if your "bugged" I won't be losing any sleep.

I'm actually interested in your thoughts about one particular performance number for the rx-8, the lateral g's. I thought that the 8's numbers were much smaller than the evo, but now that I check with R&T, they both got .88g. Do you guys have different numbers that have been reported? I wonder how many g's the 8 can handle with stiffer suspension, like jic coilovers and racing beat sway bars, etc.?

Oh yeah, a little more history about the evolution of my car of choice. I started out being revved up about the STi (before Subaru even announced it was coming to the states). I didn't even consider the evo at first because of the 29 hp difference :)

When I started to hang out at evolutionm, I got so excited about all the mods available that I started to warm up to the Evo until it was my top choice. Hey, I'm used to ZX2 aftermarket support which really sucks compared to most imports.

I also didn't consider the rx-8 because the engine had much less power, plus I was excited about AWD. However, I had admired the looks (especially in person at a mazda rev-it-up event) for a while. So I started checking this site out, and eventually the rx-8 pulled ahead in the race for my heart (cheesy yes, but what can I say, I'm a cheesy guy). When I sat down for the test drive, it felt like the planets aligned and everything was just right. :)

Originally posted by IkeWRX
The thing you don't get is most serious autox guys compete within their class, where they finish out of all classes is just gravy. The BS cars are usually some of the fastest cars out there and there's a reason why they are all in the same class together, they are sorted very very well for autox courses.

However, it does bug me that you keep using the Houston example and the Top Gear test as an example when there is much more evidence that the S2K is still the better car in BS and that the EVO & STi is a better car around a real track. The level of driver skill in autox is so far ranging that using one example of some RX-8s toping other cars in one region means little.

Ike

I totally agree. My first autox my friends and I rented a Sunfire. One of my buddies (very good driver) beat a 300Z TT....does that mean that the Sunfire is a better track car...hell no! the difference in our times (6 of us) was 10 seconds on a autox lap that ran about 44 seconds. After that, I take autox times with a grain of salt. Plus, an autox really doesn't show off the full potential of most cars...the EVO being one because of it's low speed understeer and its weight.

Ok, now who's making excuses? I can understand the fact that lap times will vary enormously depending on the driver. But "autox really doesn't show off the full potential of most cars..." Come on, it's a race with a start and a finish, cones to avoid, and with lots of curves, so it "doesn't show off the full potential"? It doesn't show the full potential of the engine because you mostly stay within the low gears as opposed to drag racing, but it DOES show the full potential of cars' handling capability (unlike drag racing which doesn't).

rabinado -

One thing to consider if you are planning on taking your new car to an autox is headroom for the helmet. The EVO has lots of headroom as compared with RX8 which is a bit tighter. Just something to consider.

Also, someone brought up clutch issues with the EVO. I've got 9k with no problems. The reason for the problems is that Mitsu designed the clutch as the weak point. The clutch actually has a restrictor that keeps the clutch from fully engaging for a split second. This keeps drivetrain shock down when doing a 6k clutch drop but at the expense of eating your clutch. If you drive the car normally, your clutch will last plenty long.

The biggest problem is the paint. By far the worst paint I've ever had. It's because of the paint that I have a hard time recommending the car. My wife has a Mazda 6 that we bought 2 months before the EVO, both are black, and her paint is awesome while mine was swirl city. I stress WAS because I've now learned how to wash and detail my car with the right products and techniques. This has helped but regardless the paint is terrible. Nothing hurts your pride in your car more than when it looks like crap.

Originally posted by rabinabo
Ok, now who's making excuses? I can understand the fact that lap times will vary enormously depending on the driver. But "autox really doesn't show off the full potential of most cars..." Come on, it's a race with a start and a finish, cones to avoid, and with lots of curves, so it "doesn't show off the full potential"? It doesn't show the full potential of the engine because you mostly stay within the low gears as opposed to drag racing, but it DOES show the full potential of cars' handling capability (unlike drag racing which doesn't).

I'm not making any excuses. On a real track the cars get to stretch their legs. They hit the corners faster and they exit faster. Take for example a Viper and Miata. On an autox the Miata will have a really good chance to beat the Viper due to it's low weight and great handling...take it to a real track where the viper can open it up and it's all over.

I'm not worried about headroom, because I'm not that tall (5'7"). I also managed to fit into my zx2 even with a helmet for auto-x (although barely), and the rx-8 should be a little better (I don't want the sunroof).

I can understand the point about having the weak clutch. I've read all about the clutch restrictor before. What are typical mileages for other stock clutches anyways, as I've never owned a manual? My guess is that we'll have to wait some time to see if the evo clutch can last as long without being abused.

When I was checking out the Subaru forums, the complaints they had there about the evo was Mitsubishi's reputation for low build quality and unreliability. I thought maybe with the evo would be different, but the paint issues convince me otherwise.

The thing about the rx-8 that you can really measure is the amount of head-turning it generates along with the joy of revving an engine up to 9k rpm, which I haven't even mentioned yet.

Originally posted by AbusiveWombat
rabinado -

One thing to consider if you are planning on taking your new car to an autox is headroom for the helmet. The EVO has lots of headroom as compared with RX8 which is a bit tighter. Just something to consider.



Cody Clark is Tim Pryor's co-driver he is a tall man six two I would say. I fits in th RX8 with a helmet fine. My son Jason is six foot and he rode shot gun wearing a helmet with plenty head room.

Head room is a non issue

The EVO uses the 4g63 still right?

I really hope they have corrected that powerplant.

I hope the same for the rx8 as well.

One thing im happy about is with the eight lots of planning went into the improved powerpant Ive taken care of mine and so far its awsome.

The claimed problems with the car like flooding heat etc are just a normal part of this car and the engine. You must learn to respect this car and if you dont treat it well it will flood. Its a hot little engine by design. It also has huge potential as you already know.

Canzoomer stage 2 for 750 takes you to 45 to 55 hp just ecu. downside is you have to have midpipe but depending on your needs that may not be a downside. To get to about 260 270 whp will not be too hard a task even NA for the RX8. Im not sure about the possibility of 300 whp na but I think its feasable.

So I myslef dynoed 180 "whp" just three days ago at the dyno day at SC engineering add 50 hp for ecu stage 2 and 8 for mid pipe and your already at 238 whp. Not too shabby for a 3050 weight and only 2 mods.

So in conclusion I think we all have awsome cars, All have testy engines and although based on similar not so reliable engines us with seals and you all with the paper gaskets and other such complaints of the eclipse owners.

So far i love my car im sure as do you love yours in the end its what you want for your car and what your willing to do to get there.

I love NA, I love having a 9k redline, I love others underestimating us. I also love to suprise. I also like to give turboed cars a run for their money (sometimes hehe)! I also like long runs with friends to vegas. I will be able to do all of this and still look good what else is there to want!

Bottom line is

If you love your car as much as I do mine there is no better car.

We need to get a evo rx8 meet sometime to dispell some of the myths and misconceptions about our cars.

Actually, from the auto-x results that I've seen the viper will still usually beat the Miatas (but not by much). I totally agree with you though. The Miata may be able to beat a viper on the right track, but what does that prove?

Auto-x still measures how well a car handles in slow turns, so how are any other tracks any more real? Sure, take both cars to a fast track, and the Miata driver will have his ass handed back bbq'ed on a stick. It's just two different aspects of performance. The Viper would probably beat a Lotus Elise on one of your "real" tracks also (not sure about it though), but does that make the Elise kick any less ass? Certainly not. I'll take an Elise over a Viper any day. There are some things that the smaller cars are just better at than the big dogs.

I'll bring up another point. It's more likely that you will be able to enjoy your $25k worth of Miata performance on regular streets than you have of getting $60k worth of Viper performance on regular streets. That is, if you worry about things like getting your suspended.

I second the evo-rx8 meet idea. There's too much hate going on. Where's the love? :)

Autox is great fun, but I get the feeling many of the people on this thread have never done it. The dynamics are very different from a real race track, and real racing will never ever involve using one gear for the entire track, which is often the case on an autox course. Ones second gear ratio is as big a factor as any on an autox course, sure autox is a decent measure for a car but there are far far better.

This is why I could care less about the guy in his stock Miata beating me at autox and just focus on other cars in my class. Because I know that stock Miata won't beat me in any other format.

Originally posted by rabinabo
I second the evo-rx8 meet idea. There's too much hate going on. Where's the love? :)

I agree
I love imports
350z,evo ,g35, rx8, m3, acura,honda,toyota,

I love imports

I never understood the chevy vs ford
or mustang vs camaro ---american car rivals


there is alot of hate on this site

Ok, someone give me an example of a "real" race track that average joes can drive at, or an organization that allows average joes to participate in "real" racing.

Do you mean time trials? I guarantee that there are far fewer people that have driven time trials as opposed to solo2 auto-x. I've never done it for example, but I'll probably try it eventually. Auto-x, even if you don't count it as real racing, is the most accessible racing around to participate in.

So, seriously, who does this "real" racing? Only professional drivers? I don't understand what you mean exactly.

Originally posted by rabinabo
Ok, someone give me an example of a "real" race track that average joes can drive at, or an organization that allows average joes to participate in "real" racing.

Do you mean time trials? I guarantee that there are far fewer people that have driven time trials as opposed to solo2 auto-x. I've never done it for example, but I'll probably try it eventually. Auto-x, even if you don't count it as real racing, is the most accessible racing around to participate in.

So, seriously, who does this "real" racing? Only professional drivers? I don't understand what you mean exactly.

Elkhart Lake, Blackhawk Farms, Laguna Seca, the list goes on and on. There are track days, club events, SCCA events and all sorts of stuff you can get into at "real race tracks" throughout the country. Autox is real racing... it's just not the best way to judge a good track car was my only point. I'm not trying to take away anything from autox as a great, fun, accessible, inexpensive form of motorsports.

Ike

Originally posted by rabinabo
Yeah, living here does tend to spoil you. :) Although I'll most likely be moving to the east coast for my next job, which will mean worse weather and no good mexican food, but the job will allow me to buy that new car :)

The zx2 has a total of 132 hp (I think), so yeah, the evo would have twice the power with an extra axle to drive :) It is awefully tempting I'll admit, and for a while I was formulating a plan to modify my evo with a Shiv Stage 1 and more :) Regardless I'm going to try to take a test drive in the Evo to have an informed opinion.

However, check out the comparison in dimensions between the zx2, 8, and evo (in inches:

length 175.2 174.3 178.5
height 52.3 52.8 57.1
width 67.4 69.7 69.7
wheel base 98.4 106.4 103.3
curb weight 2464 3000? 3263

I like that the 8 keeps the roofline almost as high as my zx2. The evo is almost 5 inches taller. Now look at the length vs wheelbase. The 8 is the shortest, yet has much longer wheel base (ok, not so much more than the evo). Amazingly, the 8 has much more room in the back compared to my zx2. That's one of the main reasons I think the rx-8 is more complete package.

The EVO feels MUCH smaller and lighter than what it really is. This is attributable, IMHO, to the quick steering and stiff springs. If you think a stock EVO is fast, try a slightly modified one. At one of our meets, a guy with an ECU reflash, turboback exhaust, aftermarket blow-off valve and a few other things I can't remember and was pushing 310 HP to the wheels.....the car was still accelerating past 8,000 RPM!!:eek:

Originally posted by rabinabo
I'm actually interested in your thoughts about one particular performance number for the rx-8, the lateral g's. I thought that the 8's numbers were much smaller than the evo, but now that I check with R&T, they both got .88g. Do you guys have different numbers that have been reported? I wonder how many g's the 8 can handle with stiffer suspension, like jic coilovers and racing beat sway bars, etc.?

This stat will vary, but the EVO's has been anywhere from around that figure to .97 Gs (Road and Track - Spring 2003).

Here is a really comparison of the EVO VII (with AYC and ACD) to other high-end sports cars in regards to handling.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=221&page_number=5

Originally posted by rabinabo
When I was checking out the Subaru forums, the complaints they had there about the evo was Mitsubishi's reputation for low build quality and unreliability. I thought maybe with the evo would be different, but the paint issues convince me otherwise.

The thing about the rx-8 that you can really measure is the amount of head-turning it generates along with the joy of revving an engine up to 9k rpm, which I haven't even mentioned yet.

Much of this repuitation (especially in regards to the DSM's) cam from cars built in the US. The EVO is completely manufactured and assembled in Japan. :) Still, Mitsubishi cut costs in some areas (and has horrible dealerships/warranty policies), but the ones that count they really did a great job. Of all the sports/sporty cars around $30K, I think the EVO and 350Z will be the most reliable (for now) as their components have been around in one way or another for quite some time.

Originally posted by rabinabo
When I was checking out the Subaru forums, the complaints they had there about the evo was Mitsubishi's reputation for low build quality and unreliability. I thought maybe with the evo would be different, but the paint issues convince me otherwise.

The thing about the rx-8 that you can really measure is the amount of head-turning it generates along with the joy of revving an engine up to 9k rpm, which I haven't even mentioned yet.

Much of this repuitation (especially in regards to the DSM's) came from cars built in the US. The EVO is completely manufactured and assembled in Japan. :) Still, Mitsubishi cut costs in some areas (and has horrible dealerships/warranty policies), but the ones that count they really did a great job. Of all the sports/sporty cars around $30K, I think the EVO and 350Z will be the most reliable (for now) as their components have been around in one way or another for quite some time.

Originally posted by zerohour
The EVO uses the 4g63 still right?

I really hope they have corrected that powerplant.


I'm assuming you are referring to the infamous crankwall problem of the DSM (early Eclipses, Talon's, Laser's, etc.). Most of those problems related to the US production, but the 4G63 in the EVO is solid (with all the issues worked out) and has been so for about 10 years in other parts of the world.

Originally posted by revhappy
I'm assuming you are referring to the infamous crankwall problem of the DSM (early Eclipses, Talon's, Laser's, etc.). Most of those problems related to the US production, but the 4G63 in the EVO is solid (with all the issues worked out) and has been so for about 10 years in other parts of the world.

That is very very good.

Check the head gasket you might be able to make some easy power by switching out the stock paper on if its still the same with a much better head gasket.

Hell cheap power too.

Thanks for the reply.

Originally posted by zerohour
That is very very good.

Check the head gasket you might be able to make some easy power by switching out the stock paper on if its still the same with a much better head gasket.

Hell cheap power too.

Thanks for the reply.

Hey, thanks for the advice - I'll take a look into that. The old DSM guys are gurus with this engine and it seems a lot of the new EVO guys are reaping the benefits of their experience. I expect something similar to happen with the RX8 new guys and the older FB- FD folks.

The EVO comes with some nice sticky tires from the factory too. That definitely helps with magazine test numbers for slalom and lateral acceleration. Not to take away anything from the suspension, etc. but tires do make the biggest difference.

Originally posted by O.R.A.
The EVO comes with some nice sticky tires from the factory too. That definitely helps with magazine test numbers for slalom and lateral acceleration. Not to take away anything from the suspension, etc. but tires do make the biggest difference.

The RX_8 comes with some pretty damn good tires as well, at least better than most cars.

Originally posted by O.R.A.
The EVO comes with some nice sticky tires from the factory too. That definitely helps with magazine test numbers for slalom and lateral acceleration. Not to take away anything from the suspension, etc. but tires do make the biggest difference.

I agree that the tires make a big difference but that what it comes with stock. Hopefully this will put pressure on other manufacturers to equip there sports cars with some good rubber.

Originally posted by IkeWRX

This is why I could care less about the guy in his stock Miata beating me at autox and just focus on other cars in my class. Because I know that stock Miata won't beat me in any other format.

Well, IMHO it takes more skill to get that stock Miata around the course faster than to have the WRX go faster "in any other format." Then it's just a pure horsepower advantage... not much skill involved there.

Don't take that as a rip... I've driven and like the WRX too.

But in a road-racing format (like the Evo-RX-8 TopGear test) HP is a *huge* factor.

Well, my $3000 shifter kart would kill all of these cars at an autocross.

And my dad can beat up your dad!

:D

Seriously, to the point of the thread... the more usable (and greater) power of the Evo will whoop the RX-8 on any road course.

But the extra couple hundred pounds that the Evo carries will definitely hurt it at the autocross course, in addition to the RX-8's better balance.

So, IMHO... autocross = RX-8; road course = Evo.

Originally posted by racerdave
Well, IMHO it takes more skill to get that stock Miata around the course faster than to have the WRX go faster "in any other format." Then it's just a pure horsepower advantage... not much skill involved there.

Don't take that as a rip... I've driven and like the WRX too.

But in a road-racing format (like the Evo-RX-8 TopGear test) HP is a *huge* factor.


Have you ever driven the WRX on an autox track in stock form? You bog and it's a nightmare waiting for it to spool up again, the understeer in stock form is also a bitch on those tight little switchbacks. The reason why you don't see many WRXs running in DS is because it's almost impossible to keep it in the sweet spot or close to it due to the situation of the cats. The Miata from everything I've seen it much easier to drive fast around an autox track.

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Have you ever driven the WRX on an autox track in stock form?

Unfortunately, yes! Pure stock... including the stock Bridgestone Craptenza's. It was rather wierd on those junk tires plus the boost kicking on and off... but I creamed the time I ran in a stock Miata all day (I fun-runned the WRX).

Hmm... I probably didn't word that post right.

The general point is that the better chassis and lighter car will be faster on an autocross course... which is why many top CS Miata's are so quick.

But give them some straights and the boosted cars will devour them.

stock for stock an evo is a faster car, but the rx8 looks way better. it depends on what your looking for. BUt you cannot sleep on the potentia of the renesis motor. theres a guy in australia who has worked on rotarys for a long time and has dynoed a rx8 with a turbo he added at 532 to the wheels in stock internals, imagine a perripheral port. with the money the rx-8 will demolish even a modded evo 8

Originally posted by racerdave
Unfortunately, yes! Pure stock... including the stock Bridgestone Craptenza's. It was rather wierd on those junk tires plus the boost kicking on and off... but I creamed the time I ran in a stock Miata all day (I fun-runned the WRX).

Hmm... I probably didn't word that post right.

The general point is that the better chassis and lighter car will be faster on an autocross course... which is why many top CS Miata's are so quick.

But give them some straights and the boosted cars will devour them.


That's pretty much what I was saying, but I'm shocked you ran faster in the WRX than the Miata, is the Miata your usual car? (though the CS and DS times are usually very very close) The RWD and the oversteer certainly help the Miata makeup for it's lack of HP.

On a side note, I don't know why the hell Subaru chose those godawful tires for the car, it's not like they're cheap, luckily I made my dealer take em off before I would even drive off the lot so I could finance wheels and tires along with the car. I'm working for having a well sorted STX car next year, really all I need are mounts and a TBE/will proably just get a straightpipe back from the 3rd cat (my neighbors will love me:p), maybe some camber plates and a new set of tires. I have got the suspension and brakes taken care of though I could have done a little better with the brakes if I were a rich man.

Ike

I don't know which of our illustrious moderators decided to completely delete the thread I started yesterday, "Battle of the 8's: RX-8 vs. Lincoln Mark VIII", but i'd sure like at least a PM as to why it was deleted. I think I made a valid point (and an attempt at humor in getting the point across) about the constant ridiculous comparisons between the RX-8 and some other vehicle that it was not designed to be marketed against.

As one of the first members of this forum, I'd appreciate just a little consideration from the moderators, especially the ones who haven't been around as long as I have.

Originally posted by BLACKWOLF
stock for stock an evo is a faster car, but the rx8 looks way better. it depends on what your looking for. BUt you cannot sleep on the potentia of the renesis motor. theres a guy in australia who has worked on rotarys for a long time and has dynoed a rx8 with a turbo he added at 532 to the wheels in stock internals, imagine a perripheral port. with the money the rx-8 will demolish even a modded evo 8

While I don't doubt you can make big power out of the renesis, the question is will it be economical. There's one very big problem with the renesis and big power....high compression.

As it stand right now...the EVO plus a little under $4000 can run a 11.6 second 1/4 mile with 380 whp. the $4000 is what it costs for Buschur Racing's stage 4 upgrade. That is economical. that is 200 whp more than the RX8...I don't see the RX8 having anything similar. At a certain point horsepower becomes very expensive. With the EVO, Buschur Racing's stage 4 is about as far as we can take the stock turbo.

With the RX8 you have a reflash, exhaust, and intake which will net some good results but after that you're looking at much more expensive upgrades (super/turbo charger). Plus there's the added cost of needing to upgrade the drivetrain for the power. The whole thing becomes very expensive very quick. At a certain point it becomes rediculous.

But we'll have to wait and see.

Of course it's going to be expensive, there's no turbo or supercharger to begin with, so you have to do everything from scratch. It's cheaper to upgrade an already turbo'd car than to turbo an non-turbo'd car. Anyways, I don't think very many people here care about drag racing.

Edit: And I definitely understand your point, khoney, as that's exactly what I said a few pages ago. But hey, since most of the people posting are non-rx-8 owners anyways, maybe we can keep this thread as decoy.

Originally posted by khoney
I don't know which of our illustrious moderators decided to completely delete the thread I started yesterday, "Battle of the 8's: RX-8 vs. Lincoln Mark VIII", but i'd sure like at least a PM as to why it was deleted. I think I made a valid point (and an attempt at humor in getting the point across) about the constant ridiculous comparisons between the RX-8 and some other vehicle that it was not designed to be marketed against.

As one of the first members of this forum, I'd appreciate just a little consideration from the moderators, especially the ones who haven't been around as long as I have.

Need... More... Smileys! http://forums.evolutionm.net/images/smilies/rofl.gif I never saw your thread, but it sounds like it was a good one. And look who has seniority on this board? Hint, hint, March comes before July! http://forums.evolutionm.net/images/smilies/rofl.gif

I'm a proud Evo 8 owner and I must say that I love my car more than anything else (stock is good but with mods it's better and with Ohlins 3-way dampers...it's unbeatable).

I almost bought a RX-8 (as soon as I sold my M5 & 400 rwhp FD) but a recent trip to Japan and talked to engineers from Mazda said that the motor is already at MAX! They economically built the motor and the FD motors are much stronger. They've spent thousands of dollars(yen) just to get an additional 15 hp but they rather step it down a notch for insurance purposes.

I drove the RX-8 there and I love the sensitivity and performance of the RX-8's brakes and neutral handling but the Evo 8's is not bad either. Plus I wanted to try a 4wd vehicle. I thought the steering of the M5 is quick but the evo is like driving a heavy go-kart. The brakes and handling are remarkable on the RX-8 but you have to keep the rev range up there to keep it on the sweet spot of the engine. Sure there will be further development on the engine so stay tuned.

Originally posted by potsuVIII
I'm a proud Evo 8 owner and I must say that I love my car more than anything else (stock is good but with mods it's better and with Ohlins 3-way dampers...it's unbeatable).

I almost bought a RX-8 (as soon as I sold my M5 & 400 rwhp FD) but a recent trip to Japan and talked to engineers from Mazda said that the motor is already at MAX! They economically built the motor and the FD motors are much stronger. They've spent thousands of dollars(yen) just to get an additional 15 hp but they rather step it down a notch for insurance purposes.

I drove the RX-8 there and I love the sensitivity and performance of the RX-8's brakes and neutral handling but the Evo 8's is not bad either. Plus I wanted to try a 4wd vehicle. I thought the steering of the M5 is quick but the evo is like driving a heavy go-kart. The brakes and handling are remarkable on the RX-8 but you have to keep the rev range up there to keep it on the sweet spot of the engine. Sure there will be further development on the engine so stay tuned.


Anyone else find this story as unbelievable as I do. And do I read that right, you're boosting 1.7 bar?

Yup! Technosquare has been there and done it! I'm boosting 1.5 for street and 1.7 for race w/103 VP unleaded. Thenosquare did their homework and I gave them an A+ for their effort on tuning.

RE: "this story" I just posted, believe it or not is up to you. I'm very content in my Evo 8 and no doubt it's better than any car that I've owned. No heat to FD/RX-8 owners and M5 owners. It's only my honest opinion.

Your story about the Renesis being at it's limit sounds pretty hokey, especially since there's already severla turbo kits being finalized, as well as simple stuff like Canzoomers ECU upgrade that show the engine can make more power with slightly different fuel maps. Let alone anything more extreme.

You cant feel bad about people not believing you. After all, 2 posts, have a different car, yet you where in Japan talking to the Mazda engineers? Sounds like some cattle are nearby.

Originally posted by potsuVIII
Yup! Technosquare has been there and done it! I'm boosting 1.5 for street and 1.7 for race w/103 VP unleaded. Thenosquare did their homework and I gave them an A+ for their effort on tuning.

RE: "this story" I just posted, believe it or not is up to you. I'm very content in my Evo 8 and no doubt it's better than any car that I've owned. No heat to FD/RX-8 owners and M5 owners. It's only my honest opinion.

So you're running 25 PSI on the stock turbo?

Stock is 19, right? Sounds possible.

There's people running 18 on the puny stock WRX turbo. Not doing much with the hot air, but the gauge still reads 18 psi, hehehehehe...

Sounds like some cattle are nearby.

Sorry, I don't need to explain why they claimed the Renesis motor is at "MAX". That's what they told me and to many others. I'm just very fortunate I was invited to join the occassion. Sure, several already made a turbo kits and may succeed without any problems. Congrats to them and with today's technology, it's possible to say "it can be done".

So you're running 25 PSI on the stock turbo?

Yes with 103 VP unleaded only! I always over-engineer the fuel for some insurance. Fuel is cheaper than a complete overhaul of the engine. I can boost to 25 psi once in a while with 91 octane but not all the time because we don't know what quality of fuel we get from the pump and 20 psi would do for everyday driving.

Stock is 19, right? Sounds possible.

Yes! 19 psi is the stock boost set by the ecu. The stock turbos are maybe at max at 25 psi but as long as you don't push it very often then it's just fine.

Lol. If the guys who designed the engine and whom know it's innermost dark secrets claim it's maxed out, no smarty pants with a turbine is gonna change that.

But hey, your right. You dont have to explain anything to me or anyone else for that matter.


Originally posted by potsuVIII
Sorry, I don't need to explain why they claimed the Renesis motor is at "MAX". That's what they told me and to many others. I'm just very fortunate I was invited to join the occassion. Sure, several already made a turbo kits and may succeed without any problems. Congrats to them and with today's technology, it's possible to say "it can be done".

There's people running 18 on the puny stock WRX turbo. Not doing much with the hot air, but the gauge still reads 18 psi, hehehehehe...

My brother has a WRX with Unichip and boosting up to 16 psi on 91 octane. The WRX's turbos are very small to begin with as well as the stock OEM IC. Soon, my brother will convert to FMIC and put an oil cooler where the stock OEM IC used to be.

Sorry for non-RX8 topic discussion.

My friend has a evo V11 and we swapped keys just for a late night drive. What an experiance with both these cars. I could not say more about his Evo and he could not say how great the ride was on the Rx-8. We took it on the highway from one exit to the other (bummer). We did not want to get caught by the law. I think that you have to make the best experiance with the car you personally own. You know that some one is always going to be faster or better because of thier efforts, so make the best with what you own and be happy that you have a great ride. Remember thier are still plenty of people otu there that can afford any ride. PS: Don"t loose your licence!

http://www.xmission.com/~preacher/owned.jpg

ebony and ivory live together in perfect harmony... at least in my garage.

-project

nice garage to have
great cars

Originally posted by AbusiveWombat
The point of comparing the two is that for me they fell into the same catagory along with the 350z, STi, and G35. I didn't care about drivetrain, number of doors, leather, dvd navigation....I cared about which car was the most fun, along with a sticker of around $30k.

I'm not alone either...I know that revhappy was in the same boat as me.

Add me to your boat.

Originally posted by moogle
Add me to your boat.

This boat is getting heavy!

OK I just read this entire thread which I do not usually do. I am interested in purchasing the EVO cuz it just kicks major ass. I do have a RX-8 now, but the EVO is simply a tuner car thats fun to drive 24/7. Its a driver's driver car. Thats what I am, and I guess I will be trading my RX-8 or selling it for an EVO soon.

Add efini to the boat 2;we should order a cruise.

Can I get a trip on the boat regardless of my car?? Can I, Can I?

<kicks RX8-TX off the boat>

Originally posted by IkeWRX
<kicks RX8-TX off the boat>

Darn it! I can cook!

Basically:
If you're not into foreplay and shit, you'll like the Evo/Sti.
If love-making is more your style, the RX8 is the car for you.

Hootpot, do you ask your lady friends if they "like foreplay and shit"? I'm sure they really gets em ready for action :D


If you supply the groceries and bring the beer you can have back on the boat RX8-TX, oh and naked women. After all, what's a boat without naked women :p


Oh... and some jello, lots of jello...



































And an inflatable kiddie pool...

















































Whoops, One last thing, a video camera.


Ike

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Whoops, One last thing, a video camera.
Ike

Dirty!

Originally posted by IkeWRX
[B]Hootpot, do you ask your lady friends if they "like foreplay and shit"? I'm sure they really gets em ready for action :D


The RX8 also needs to be properly oiled, doesn't it?
Always check your dipstick before a long ride!

This is a real bad comparison IMO. the EVO will beat an RX8 in every category of performance.......

The EVO is a DECKED out version of a $13,500 econo car that most of us would never admit we owned.

The RX-8, in it's most basic form, is very cool. Not very fast, But cool.

If Mazda took an RX-8, dropped it, put Brembo's and a large single turbo, etc. It would be F'ing AMAZING!

I agree, it's a silly comparison. I think the EVO is ugly, but faster. Since I have no dreams of dying a horrible death in a street race, I prefer to look good. I am building a 2000lb FB with a RENESIS. That will be fast (on the track) but legal for the street.

http://www.1bad7.com
est. Completion 07/04

Originally posted by AbusiveWombat

As it stand right now...the EVO plus a little under $4000 can run a 11.6 second 1/4 mile with 380 whp. the $4000 is what it costs for Buschur Racing's stage 4 upgrade. That is economical. that is 200 whp more than the RX8...I don't see the RX8 having anything similar. At a certain point horsepower becomes very expensive. With the EVO, Buschur Racing's stage 4 is about as far as we can take the stock turbo.



In Grassroots Motorsports Magazines' $2003 challenge, somebody put down an 11.629 1/4 mile in a '87 Omni. Total cost? $1966.22. Don't start quoting how cheap it is to make your car fast. While we were all sensitive to the cost of the cars we bought, if it was purely about performce/$$ none of us would be driving RX-8s, EVOs, or any other new car. We'd all be modding used DSMs, Miatas, etc. and laughing at the fools who bought the new cars.

The reason you aren't driving an Omni is the same reason I'm not driving an EVO (or a monster Miata or a DSM or a...) - I don't want one.

George

Well I thought I would chime in on this tread since I can officially state my opinion on both the RX-8 and the EVO. My roommate just got the RX-8 this weekend and he let me take it out for a drive.

Comfort:
driver seat is very uncomfortable. The bottom of the seat right were my tailbone/lower back is there is some kind of metal bar that digs into me if i set up straight, so definetely not a good long trip cruiser. Back seat is on the other hand very nice. I am 5'9" and I fit perfectly and I love how the back seat is split so it feels like bucket seats in the back unlike the evo, passengers will get thrown side to side if cornering hard. Gauges in the car are very nice compared to the EVO, but the only thing I don't like is the digital speedometer. Gauges can be all amber for comfort or they can be set to look like the ones in the new hondas. Very bright with red needles. (Electroluminescent) Pretty cool!

Power:
Torque??? lol there is NONE! Car just feels very slow compared to the evo. I would say 0-60 is close to 6.5 seconds not 5.8 as in stated in most magazine reviews. Power delivery is on the otherhand very very smooth and linear all the way to redline and the car beeps at you around 8000 rpm to shift. The RX-7 lacks that kick in the butt feeling the evo gives where your body starts sinking in the seat as the turbo raises pressure in the cylinders.

Handling:

Car corners pretty flat, very little body roll, drives smoother over bumps than the evo. Steering response is not immediate as in the EVO. I can turn the steering wheel a little bit and it doesn't have the immediate response in that the EVO has. Feels a lot like my old Integra GSR.

Looks:

Fantastic looking car, very different than most cars on the road and since he got black it has the appearance of some kind of batmobile hehe

Final opinion:

This car is not for me. Too slow, worse gas mileage than the EVO, not as comfortable as the EVO and definetly not as fun to drive overall, but the overall styling is sweet and if looks are what you want this is the one to get.

Two girls at a party, both are hot to look at. After dancing with each, you know one is hot AND ready to go - fast, the other is hot, but wants to get to know you before opening up more, with more to her than meets the eye.

Bottom line, one is quick fun... the other wants a long term quality relationship that takes time to appreciate.

Make up your mind! :D or if rich enough, take both! :D :D and double your pleasure.

ps. Yea I've driven them both (obv own the 8) and both are addictive in their own wonderful way!

Given that last analogy, I'll refraing from any comments about Evo drivers preferring that "kick in the butt" or "shove in the back." :)

All kidding aside, both are great cars. As long as you make an informed choice, you can't go wrong.

I just finished reading this thread all the way (took a while), but it appealed to me since this is basically my car choice right now.

I love the styling and interior of the RX8 and the performance of the EVO. And with options and incentives (LOL), they are almost the exact same price.

I can't find a dealer to test drive either. I get the same line ". . . it's a specialty car whose owners will know they want one without a test drive . . ."

Heck, right now, I'd probably get one from whichever dealership will let me drive it.

I wish I could afford both . . . that one guy's pic made me so jealous. :)

AC

I had a problem getting a testdrive of a EVO from a couple dealers, and for a while after they came out. This was from dealers that only had one or two in stock so it's somewhat understandable. However the Mazda dealer was more than willing to let me drive the RX-8 right after release, and every Mazda dealer I've seen has plenty to chose from. Usually them denying a testdrive means they don't have a demo car on the lot and are too cheap to let a new car get some miles on it. But you really shouldn't be having a problem getting a testdrive in the RX-8.


Originally posted by Alacris
I just finished reading this thread all the way (took a while), but it appealed to me since this is basically my car choice right now.

I love the styling and interior of the RX8 and the performance of the EVO. And with options and incentives (LOL), they are almost the exact same price.

I can't find a dealer to test drive either. I get the same line ". . . it's a specialty car whose owners will know they want one without a test drive . . ."

Heck, right now, I'd probably get one from whichever dealership will let me drive it.

I wish I could afford both . . . that one guy's pic made me so jealous. :)

AC

won't pull the same g's as the 8 or drift as well.

Originally posted by rx8miami
won't pull the same g's as the 8 or drift as well.

Um it usually pulls more G's or about the same though I have seen a couple publications where the RX-8 pulls .01 more. Plus the EVO beats the RX-8 in the slalom every time from what I've seen.

Having driven both, on a track no less, I can say the overall speed difference between the two is slight enough to be more than covered by driving skill. In other words: An even slightly better driver can whoop ass on an EVO with an
RX-8. Both are fun to drive, one like a Video game the other much more involving.

On another point: Although the RX-8 brakes were strong and fade free I would take those EVO Brembos any day. Awesome, stiff, pedal feel.

Thanks for the insight on this. I test drove an EVO last night and while it was an awesome car, it didn't amaze me the way I was expecting. Honestly, three weeks on web forums might have talked it up too much. Impressive in every aspect, and of course, I can only test it so much (between no really windy roads and the break-in period). It's still top of my list, but the test drive alone did not close the sale.

That's inspired me to at least try the RX8 out next. I'll have to know or I'll second guess myself forever.

thanks for all the info here,
ac

Originally posted by rlfletch
Having driven both, on a track no less, I can say the overall speed difference between the two is slight enough to be more than covered by driving skill. In other words: An even slightly better driver can whoop ass on an EVO with an
RX-8. Both are fun to drive, one like a Video game the other much more involving.

On another point: Although the RX-8 brakes were strong and fade free I would take those EVO Brembos any day. Awesome, stiff, pedal feel.

There must be quite a difference in driver skill as the EVO FQ300 beat the RX8 by 6 seconds per lap in the Autocar test at Rockingham (a very tight track). Granted the FQ300 will do a bit better than the standard EVO, but that is a significant difference IMHO.

the evo apparently scoots to 60 mph in 4.9 sec. and the rx8 on a beautiful crisp cool day gets there in 5.9 sec. so it's pretty well understood that in a short sprint the evo kicks our ass. however with the 8 already pulling .90 g's and evo .88-.89 some publication have it at .90 it's a dead heat in a slalom. modify the suspension of the 8 add some aftermarket upgrades to exhaust,engine,ecu and the 8 make sup for the lack of power and overtakes the evo in the cone race quite easily. not to mention since the evo is all wheel drive it can't "drift" like the 8 and boy is that fun to do!

Ah, you bench racers kill me. Come back and talk when you've put down the magazine and hit the track.

ROTFL!

Originally posted by rx8miami
the evo apparently scoots to 60 mph in 4.9 sec. and the rx8 on a beautiful crisp cool day gets there in 5.9 sec. so it's pretty well understood that in a short sprint the evo kicks our ass. however with the 8 already pulling .90 g's and evo .88-.89 some publication have it at .90 it's a dead heat in a slalom. modify the suspension of the 8 add some aftermarket upgrades to exhaust,engine,ecu and the 8 make sup for the lack of power and overtakes the evo in the cone race quite easily. not to mention since the evo is all wheel drive it can't "drift" like the 8 and boy is that fun to do!

Real racetracks don't have cones, and guess what happens when you mod an EVO...

Originally posted by rx8miami
it's a dead heat in a slalom.

I remember an at least 3-5 mph difference when both cars both came out last year. However, I still think the track times (and the qualitative descriptions) in the Autocar magazine are much more relevant.

http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3101&highlight=evo

Holy crap I want a spec C, BRING IT TO THE US SUBARU!

Ike,

Don't forget there is now an FQ330 (wasn't around for the test above) and I think Mitusibishi Racing (MR) versions of the FQ300 and FQ330 are coming out soon over the pond, which are generally quite a bit lighter. :D Still, the Spec C, is quite impressive. How about the 135 HP Elise's performance?

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Real racetracks don't have cones, and guess what happens when you mod an EVO...
have you ever autox your car? elapsed time? yes real tracks have cones and by the way if you mod an 8 with lets see..................12psi of boost (turbo) headers, midpipe/exhaust,bridge port, and lets say a can stage 1 I don't care what you did to your evo the potential for the 8 is much greater. lets not forget that the evo is a crappy econo car on steroids. lets put the already quick 8 on roids and see where the two fall!

Bridge port a Renesis? I don't think you can do that. It already has 6 ports.

You can't have headers with a turbo, but I know what ya mean.

the point being, the rx8 and it's owners hav ejust only begun to tune them. the day will coem and will coem soon that a moded up 8 will blow the doors off of a evo. damn i hate that car. it's so damn ugly and overly upgraded. reminds me of dodge's spirit rt turbo back in early 90's.

and about the bridge port, no one has really goen publoc here on it but many have said they will eventually try. I believe it can be done.

Originally posted by rx8miami
have you ever autox your car? elapsed time? yes real tracks have cones and by the way if you mod an 8 with lets see..................12psi of boost (turbo) headers, midpipe/exhaust,bridge port, and lets say a can stage 1 I don't care what you did to your evo the potential for the 8 is much greater. lets not forget that the evo is a crappy econo car on steroids. lets put the already quick 8 on roids and see where the two fall!

:o not again.

Originally posted by RX8-TX
:o not again.

He's hopeless, I'm just going to add him to my ignore list now rather than try to argue with him :p By the way Einstein, an autox track is more well known as a parking lot, IT'S NOT A REAL TRACK!

by the way dufus, anything you race on is a track. and ignore me all you want It really doesn't matter that you can have a ligitamate debate without getting all pissy.

you know what I take that back. I honestly do. My problem here is that some of you "ikewrx" can not take anybodys opinion seriously if it doesn't adhere with your own. This is why the forums are open to all and not just to the top posters which all seem to think they are the gods of this site. I really hope some of you read this and think about what I am saying. Just read and opnionate and move on with out getting your feelings hurt and acting like any other idea is ludicrous. And by the way Ike I owned a Rex for a couple of years with major mods (vf34 turbo running 16lbs,turbo xs blow off valve,hks catback exhaust,aps high flow intake,headers (unlike what the kid said above who claims you can't put headers on a turbo), and decent wheels prodrive 18's anthracite which are for sale $1200obo, and ann eibach drop. Now I must say Ike I was in a member of a Rex forum which wasn't as combativie as this and we all stuck together on one basic premise. We all hated the EVO. You seem to be teh only Rex guy out there that sticks up for the econo trash car. Give it up, it's a piece of crap. I apoligize to all who were ofended by my comments to Ike and I promsie it will never happen again on this forum. But get the picture here! This is open!

Originally posted by rx8miami
the point being, the rx8 and it's owners hav ejust only begun to tune them. the day will coem and will coem soon that a moded up 8 will blow the doors off of a evo. damn i hate that car. it's so damn ugly and overly upgraded. reminds me of dodge's spirit rt turbo back in early 90's.

At what cost? Currently, EVO's are easily making around 400 WHP on the stock turbo. This will run you a few thousand dollars. Turbo upgrades and aftermarket turbos are already popping up to increase power beyond that. You may hate it all you want, but its racing and street performance has been proven time and time again.

Originally posted by rx8miami
Now I must say Ike I was in a member of a Rex forum which wasn't as combativie as this and we all stuck together on one basic premise. We all hated the EVO. You seem to be teh only Rex guy out there that sticks up for the econo trash car. Give it up, it's a piece of crap. I apoligize to all who were ofended by my comments to Ike and I promsie it will never happen again on this forum. But get the picture here! This is open!

We must be crazy because at all of the meets around here, the rex and evo guys are quite interested in each others cars (you can include other enthusiast cars in there as well). In fact, the founder of our EVO club founded one of the largest wrx clubs in the country.

Originally posted by revhappy
We must be crazy because at all of the meets around here, the rex and evo guys are quite interested in each others cars (you can include other enthusiast cars in there as well). In fact, the founder of our EVO club founded one of the largest wrx clubs in the country.

Yeah, no clue what WRX club he belonged to... There may be a friendly rivalry but when it comes down to it most owners of both cars respect and like the other.

rx8miami, you're doing the typical noob fanboi thing by creating some imaginary car on paper and then comparing it to a stock car. Mod for mod the EVO wins, stock for stock the EVO wins on everything but an autox track, which is NOT a real race track. The EVO has far greater potentiel than the RX-8 does at this point, it has tons of available mods and just putting a $50 boost controller on an EVO would mean you have to put several thousand dollars into an RX-8 to get it up to par in a straight line, and those mods aren't even available yet even if you did have the thousands to spend.

You can put lipstick on a pig... the reality of the EVO and WRX are that they are factory versions of coffee can civics with the trick kit. No doubt the're fast but weren't intitially engineered to heighten the driving experience but to be sold cheap and run ecomically. My friend who owns a built WRX drove the RX-8 on the track and commented: "It feels so much more like a sports car." He gets it. The EVO drives like a video game right down to the tiny controls, cool because its easy to go fast but lacking in satisfaction. To each his own.

Ike: You must SUCK at Autocrossing the way you bag on it. I much prefer track driving but to knock on autocrossing just shows your lack of experience.

Originally posted by rlfletch
You can put lipstick on a pig... the reality of the EVO and WRX are that they are factory versions of coffee can civics with the trick kit. No doubt the're fast but weren't intitially engineered to heighten the driving experience but to be sold cheap and run ecomically. My friend who owns a built WRX drove the RX-8 on the track and commented: "It feels so much more like a sports car." He gets it. The EVO drives like a video game right down to the tiny controls, cool because its easy to go fast but lacking in satisfaction. To each his own.

Ike: You must SUCK at Autocrossing the way you bag on it. I much prefer track driving but to knock on autocrossing just shows your lack of experience.

I had more track experience by the time I was able to drive legally than you have in your life most likely. I don't have anything against autox, but it is far far from the end all be all or motorsports. Honestly I gave it up for this season because 4 minutes of track time every few weeks when it's warm just isn't worth me wasting an entire Sunday and a lot of money on. If you think there's no difference between a WRX, EVO, STi, and a tarted up civic you're just a moronic fanboi that has no appreciation for fun performance cars. I highly doubt you've ever driven an EVO and you're just basing your biased opinions on nothing other than aesthetics and your fanboi attitude. A WRX, STi and EVO have more racing roots than the entire Mazda line put together, wake the hell up!

Originally posted by rlfletch
You can put lipstick on a pig... the reality of the EVO and WRX are that they are factory versions of coffee can civics with the trick kit. No doubt the're fast but weren't intitially engineered to heighten the driving experience but to be sold cheap and run ecomically. My friend who owns a built WRX drove the RX-8 on the track and commented: "It feels so much more like a sports car." He gets it. The EVO drives like a video game right down to the tiny controls, cool because its easy to go fast but lacking in satisfaction. To each his own.

I think you are trying to relegate the WRX, STI and EVO to factory engineered fast cars that have no soul. Try driving an EVO, you will soon find out that the steering feel offers more feedback than even a miata. You'll also notice a cockpit that places everything in near-perfect positons for driving spiritedly. You'll notice seats that are designed to keep you in place during hard cornering. You'll notice that the car feels significantly lighter than its actual curb weight.

You won't get the sleek lines of a classic sports car nor will you sit as low to the ground. However, you will have plenty of room to carry stuff and bring people in the rear seats and you will easily clear most speed bumps!

Untill either of you trolling dorks have driven an RX-8 on the track: STFU! Ike: Why you feel the need to lay your urine all over this board escapes me. This is the "Racing" forum isn't it? Not the "magazine quoting" or "I have an uninformed opinion" forum.

Believe what you will, I've driven both a WRX and an EVO at speed, on the track. Not to mention countless other front, rear, and all-wheel drive cars in the past 12 years as a student and an instructor. Take a look under your car. What kind of suspension do you see? Hell, I stand corrected, previous generation Civics had a more sophisticated double wishbone up front than yours. 5 years of working for American Honda didn't leave me biased though and just so you know, they changed to struts for COST reasons. I don't deny the speed both these cars carry and the racing background, but they are still HOT RODDED ECONO BOX's. I don't see clapped out RX-8's with 13" wheels covers and gray rat fuzz interiors at the local car rental store. Your shrill defensiveness only underscores the truth. If you had half a clue you would be proud of how freakin fast they made a S#%$t box go, that's their appeal for me

The RX-8 isn't the greatest car ever made but it's more fun, sophisticated and challenging to drive than yours. As I said before though, I really did like the brakes on that EVO and it definately had more headroom. An EVO MS would be tempting for it's sheer ability and value but that wing is pure FANBOY on a street car. I have a lot of respect for both cars just not some of their owners. ;)

No person with the track experience you claim to have would have such little respect for other good track cars. Also, the RX-8 is hardly the more challenging to drive, it's one of the easiest to drive fast and that's one of the great things about it. Nor would anyone that is so dedicated to track driving bring up so much nonsense about sophistication and looks.

I never said anything bad about the RX-8, yet you feel the need to bash the EVO and WRX, who's the one being defensive again?

i will never and i mean never bash the evo perofrmance. that would be completely amateur forme to do. on the other hand having owned the rex and driven the evo the two simply don't comapre in quality. a good friend of mine is a sales manager at a mitsu dealer and he has let me drive the shit out of a few on the lot. they are indeed fun to ride no doubt but the car feels like it just doesn't belong with the drivetrain it's mated too. in short, the all wheel drive system that std. on all subies works well with all subies. mitsu did something wrong with the evo and it just feel sflat out wrong. don't even get me started on the road noise in the evo. picture the road noise the econo version of the lancer and multiply it by lets say 10? the impreza in it's simplist form is still over $20k. thge lancer is around $13500. trust me you know the differecne when you drive them. maybe I am biased (prob. am) but the rex is superior in quality. I guess the best analogy would be like comparing our rx8's to lets say a dodge neon rt. they are both similar in performance and effective at what they do. but you decide which of the two is superior in quality?

Originally posted by rx8miami
i will never and i mean never bash the evo perofrmance. that would be completely amateur forme to do. on the other hand having owned the rex and driven the evo the two simply don't comapre in quality. a good friend of mine is a sales manager at a mitsu dealer and he has let me drive the shit out of a few on the lot. they are indeed fun to ride no doubt but the car feels like it just doesn't belong with the drivetrain it's mated too. in short, the all wheel drive system that std. on all subies works well with all subies. mitsu did something wrong with the evo and it just feel sflat out wrong. don't even get me started on the road noise in the evo. picture the road noise the econo version of the lancer and multiply it by lets say 10? the impreza in it's simplist form is still over $20k. thge lancer is around $13500. trust me you know the differecne when you drive them. maybe I am biased (prob. am) but the rex is superior in quality. I guess the best analogy would be like comparing our rx8's to lets say a dodge neon rt. they are both similar in performance and effective at what they do. but you decide which of the two is superior in quality?

Dude, the road noise on the EVO is normal. That's the price you pay for having soft compound performance tires. There will also be some drivetrain noise as well, its a friggen performance car....if you want a quiet ride get a Cadillac or something. Does an S2000 or an Integra Type R or any Honda motorcycle lack "quality" because they have lots of "road noise".

So, what exactly is "wrong" with the EVO's AWD? You are the first person I have seen who has complained about the "feel" of the EVO's AWD system. Perhaps, the quick steering and feedback seem unusual to you? :confused: Sure, the EVO (100% manufacured and assembled in Japan) isn't up to a Honda's level of quality, however it seems to be suffering from less glitches currently than the RX8 IMHO.

As for the level of advancement in suspensions, I will give you that the general design in the RX8 is theoretically superior. However, with all of the upgrades done to the EVO, one could say that its evolved into something else. This design has proven itself in the WRC for years and the street EVO's handling figures have spoken for themselves for years as well. The RX8 needs alot more power to take advantage of its great suspension (assuming it can be tuned correctly to get rid of the softness and handle more sharply) , but with the dismal gas mileage figures, its tough to see versions coming out with much more power.Finally, IMHO, the tune of a suspension is far more important for the average enthusiast than some theoretically wonderful suspension that could be good, with some major adjustments.

i challenge you to drive lets say a clk amg, vette z06,even a nissan 350z, honda s2000 as you sited. drive them at 100mph plus and they feel like you are driving 45mph. don't know if you have but since you are such a pro and us ameteurs really don't know how cars are to handle and sound at high speed why don't you do the comparison. the mistu at any speed above 45 mph feels like it is goign to take off and fly into orbit. all of the above referenced cars feel nice and firm at high speeds. mind you they are not caddy's or lexus's and they seem to not sound like you are on cheap soft compound tires. the evo and a car liek the neon rt are cheaply made econo cars that feel cheap at any speed. they out performs many, I have not debated that. but it is just a poor ride. regardless of whatever dig you want to make about us ameteurs and how we look at cars, the evo is merely nutin more than big performance bang for your buck.. and let me ask you a question. would you pay $35000 for a loaded 8 if it soudned liek shit on the highway cruising at 85mph? Or any car for that matter at that price. The subie drives strong and quiet at that speed. you still have failed to make the distinction between the two rides and why the evo rides as it does. i'll make it easier for you. the lancer is a cheaply made car which has and will continue to be marketed to people considering kias,hyaundais,base level civis,and ecos and the evo version is just a much much better performing version. and their awd system clunks like a 4x4 by the way on both of the evos i have driven (hard by the way) and this is why i give the subie the edge in that category. do not forget taht subaru has made a living makin gonly awd cars and they are th ebest at it for a reason. thats what they do, mitsus attempt falls way short of them imho.
thats it i give up. promsie i won't discuss the two on thsi site again.

Originally posted by rx8miami
The subie drives strong and quiet at that speed. you still have failed to make the distinction between the two rides and why the evo rides as it does.

The WRX is like that because it comes with all season tires and has softer suspension. Ride in my car and it sounds like any car with stiff suspension and high performance tires, just like most other cars would. Also, sound deadening materials weigh a good amount, which is one of the reasons more performance oriented cars are noisier because they don't have much.

BTW, the RX-8 is one of the louder cars on the market when cruising at highway speeds so I have no clue what you're talking about. Would I pay 35k for a loaded RX-8 if it sounded like shit at 85mph on the highway? Nope, not if it doesn't handle and accelerate like an EVO. But I would pay 27k for an EVO and grin all the way up to 100mph in my shitty sounding car.

to each his own! btw shitty riding cars as i said usually feel like they are faling apart and rattle like hell very much like the evo. my 8 sounds and rides great at 85mph even after mods and my wrx did too! don't know what you have done to yous. what have you done btw?

Well, once it gets warm again the KYB AGX struts with Prodrive springs are going back in along with some azenis and a rear sway. Other stuff as well but that's it for suspension. The EVO I testdrove did not rattle and was a little more harsh of a ride, but that's why it handles so damn well. I don't deny that the WRX and STi make for better daily drivers if you're worried about a jarring ride, but there is a compromise. If you want the best handling car in stock form you get the EVO, if you want a good daily that has a cushier ride and still handles very well then the WRX of STi are probably better choices.

agreed, I have a little excerpt from r&t long test haul that speaks of what you and I bantered about.
Turning radius is poor; it needs a 6th gear for more relaxed highway cruising; gear linkage is a bit notchy; it's loud inside, thanks to driveline whine, turbo whoosh and what appears to be minimal sound deadening. All that said, what a blast it is to squirt around town in this thing! — Andrew Bornhop, Senior Editor

Go on the evo boards and you'll see a common theme from owners is that the car is extremely stable at high speeds, in fact more than most of them have ever experienced. Believe, it or not the wing does have a function. It is scarily easy to go 130 MPH and not even know it (Yes, I have driven the S2000 and 350Z). Is a GT3, Enzo or Murcielago "cheap" because they are noisy?

If they "feel so cheap" at any speed, why have the British magazines like EVO, Car, Tope Gear who are known for their emphasis on the means more than the ends of a car's performance, constantly given the EVO (and STI) their highest praise to it for a decade plus. Of course, if there is an economy car name in the model name, then it must all not be true. :confused:

BTW, using semi-correct english will help convey your argument a bit better.


Originally posted by rx8miami
i challenge you to drive lets say a clk amg, vette z06,even a nissan 350z, honda s2000 as you sited. drive them at 100mph plus and they feel like you are driving 45mph. don't know if you have but since you are such a pro and us ameteurs really don't know how cars are to handle and sound at high speed why don't you do the comparison. the mistu at any speed above 45 mph feels like it is goign to take off and fly into orbit. all of the above referenced cars feel nice and firm at high speeds. mind you they are not caddy's or lexus's and they seem to not sound like you are on cheap soft compound tires. the evo and a car liek the neon rt are cheaply made econo cars that feel cheap at any speed. they out performs many, I have not debated that. but it is just a poor ride. regardless of whatever dig you want to make about us ameteurs and how we look at cars, the evo is merely nutin more than big performance bang for your buck.. and let me ask you a question. would you pay $35000 for a loaded 8 if it soudned liek shit on the highway cruising at 85mph? Or any car for that matter at that price. The subie drives strong and quiet at that speed. you still have failed to make the distinction between the two rides and why the evo rides as it does. i'll make it easier for you. the lancer is a cheaply made car which has and will continue to be marketed to people considering kias,hyaundais,base level civis,and ecos and the evo version is just a much much better performing version. and their awd system clunks like a 4x4 by the way on both of the evos i have driven (hard by the way) and this is why i give the subie the edge in that category. do not forget taht subaru has made a living makin gonly awd cars and they are th ebest at it for a reason. thats what they do, mitsus attempt falls way short of them imho.
thats it i give up. promsie i won't discuss the two on thsi site again.

btw, you little comment about semi-correct english is out of line. simply becasue I am not glued to the comp. as you probably are (computer geek) I type quite poorly. when I type quickly it seems to come out as jiberish. secondly, I would gladly take you on any debate forum you punk. you probably never went to college or saw a college campus so please don't try to patronize me.

evo............. you probably have not driven it so don't speak of what you do not know.

sorry I spoke of the two cars against my previous post, but revboys pathetic comments merrited a lashing.

Perhaps if you did take the time to write something coherently, then your arguments might be taken more seriously.

Actually, I graduated Magna Cum Laude and have a professional license. I also own an EVO.

Thanks for the "lashing", its been an education. :p




Originally posted by rx8miami
btw, you little comment about semi-correct english is out of line. simply becasue I am not glued to the comp. as you probably are (computer geek) I type quite poorly. when I type quickly it seems to come out as jiberish. secondly, I would gladly take you on any debate forum you punk. you probably never went to college or saw a college campus so please don't try to patronize me.

evo............. you probably have not driven it so don't speak of what you do not know.

sorry I spoke of the two cars against my previous post, but revboys pathetic comments merrited a lashing.

Originally posted by rx8miami
evo............. you probably have not driven it so don't speak of what you do not know.



Huh??? Who's evo?

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Huh??? Who's evo?

He meant E V I L

Originally posted by RX8-TX
He meant E V I L

I'm bored, lets go make fun of the kids over at ClubRSX :D

Originally posted by IkeWRX
I'm bored, lets go make fun of the kids over at ClubRSX :D

Ahhh, been bussy over there already! Go check out AWD RSX Killer's thread...

The EVO has ownership of the RX8 in a parking lot, on a road course, and at the drag strip. Don't feel bad. The EVO has ownership of cars that cost ten times as much!
BTW autocrossing is the dog biscuits.

hey just a question, a serious one at that. Ike, with all the rex sites out there and all the tuning sites for your car which I enjoyed every minute while I owned; why do you roam through an 8 forum?

Originally posted by rx8miami
i challenge you to drive lets say a clk amg, vette z06,even a nissan 350z, honda s2000 as you sited. drive them at 100mph plus and they feel like you are driving 45mph. don't know if you have but since you are such a pro and us ameteurs really don't know how cars are to handle and sound at high speed why don't you do the comparison. the mistu at any speed above 45 mph feels like it is goign to take off and fly into orbit. all of the above referenced cars feel nice and firm at high speeds.

By this quote it is very evident that you have NOT driven the EVO at any speeds above 45 mph. I own an EVO and it is by far the most stable car I've driven above 100 mph and is certainly more stable than the S2000.

Originally posted by rx8miami
in short, the all wheel drive system that std. on all subies works well with all subies. mitsu did something wrong with the evo and it just feel sflat out wrong.

Hmmm...this is another gem. Are you sure you drove an EVO and not base lancer? The AWD in the EVO is beautiful. It's very neutral in mid to high speed corners but does push in the slow hairpins. :( Overall an amazing drivetrain.

I've driven a friends WRX that's dropped and has enough go fast parts to keep up with the EVO and his car is a slob through the corners. Very difficult to manage.

Originally posted by rx8miami
hey just a question, a serious one at that. Ike, with all the rex sites out there and all the tuning sites for your car which I enjoyed every minute while I owned; why do you roam through an 8 forum?

Ther WRX has been out a few years, anything I really want to know has already been discussed and is just a quick search away. I still post on those sites and a couple other auto forums but I mainly use them as a reference. I came here out of interest in the car and to the shagrin or some RX-8 owners have just stayed, but I'm not as universally hated on these boards as some would like to think.

that's cool, I was just curious as to why thats all.

Hi all,

just had the opportunity to testdrive an EVO 8.

My impressions:
- looks (int & ext) are not in pair with any of my cars
- compared to My VR4 the engine (or turbo) is like a dead animal. Late to response and builds up torque well over 5000.
Compared to the 8, has way more less push in the low RPM-s. Overall meybe a tad faster but doesn't feel so.
- brakes have better bite, but the tyres (Potenza RE050) are worse than the RE040-s on the 8. Hitting the break instantenously locks the wheels, tyres squeez but car deccelerates guite weakly. Vwry dissaplointing.
- more body roll than in tne 8! I was really surprised about this because standing the car felt wery solid (I pushed it from the side). The VR4 is in a different cathegory (above) in sport mode. Unfortunately cann't compete overall due to it's weight.

So I'm happy I had this opportunity, and am not regretting my choice any more:)
On the other hand I'm a bit sad, I was expecting something more speciall from the EVO.

Well I thought I would chime in on this tread since I can officially state my opinion on both the RX-8 and the EVO. My roommate has the RX-8 and I've had my EVO for over a year now.

Comfort:
First thing I immediately noticed was the seats are very uncomfortable. The bottom of the seat right were my tail bone is there is some kind of metal bar that digs into me if i set up straight, so definetely not a good long trip cruiser. Back seat is on the other hand very nice. I am 5'9" and I fit perfectly and I love how the back seat is split so it feels like bucket seats in the back unlike the evo, passengers will get thrown side to side if cornering hard. Gauges in the car are very nice compared to the EVO, but the only thing I don't like is the digital speedometer. Gauges can be all amber for comfort or they can be set to look like the ones in the new hondas. Very bright with red needles. (Electroluminescent)

Power:
Torque??? lol there is NONE! Car just feels very slow compared to the evo. I would say 0-60 is close to 7 seconds not 5.8 as in stated in most magazine reviews. Power delivery is on the otherhand very very smooth and linear all the way to redline and the car beeps at you around 7800 rpm to shift, but just lacks that kick in the butt feeling the evo gives where your body starts sinking in the seat as the turbo raises pressure in the cylinders.

Handling:

Car corners pretty flat, very little body rolll, drives smoother over bumps than the evo. Steering response is not immediate as in the EVO. I can turn the steering wheel a little bit and it doesn't have the immediate turn in that the EVO has. Feels a lot like my old Integra GSR

Looks:

Fantastic looking car, very different than most cars on the road and since he got black it has the appearance of some kind of batmobile hehe

Final opinion:

This car is not for me. Too slow, worse gas mileage than the EVO, not as comfortable as the EVO and definetly not as fun to drive overall.



Comparing the EVO to the RX-8 is like comparing apples to oranges. Two totally different cars, and the EVO comes out the winner anyways. My roommate has an rx-8 and its just a totally different car compared to the evo.

RX-8 is all show and no go. I like the RX-8 no question. What Mazda did power wise is bull-****. They better come out with a Mazdaspeed RX-8 soon (w/turbo)

I am not sure why this is still alive. Accept the EVO will out perform cars in a lot higher price brackets and that has nothing to do with why you would buy a RX-8

I am not sure why this is still alive. Accept the EVO will out perform cars in a lot higher price brackets and that has nothing to do with why you would buy a RX-8

yep.

Wow, an EVO owner who says his car is better than the RX-8? Shocking.
The internet is full of good information.

7 sec 0-60? lol..............maybe for the Auto. The manual will do 0-60 in 6secs, but you have to push it hard.

No comparison, you have your neon/srt-4/wrx/sti/lancer/evolution class..

Then you have your S2000/G35/Corvette/RX-8 class...

I know, I drive both types and well, the RX-8 has ruined the Talon for me. It feels like a bloated up econobox with a heavy clutch now and I used to think it felt perfect...

Can somebody move this debate into the "General Automotive" where it belongs. The "my car is better than your car" threads don't belong in the "Competition (Racing)" forum. Moderator? Hello?

i would, but i'm not mod on this forum. i'll take care of it, though.

some of you failto realize that the rx8 is a naturally aspired engine and the evo is not. do the same kinda mods to an 8 and we'll see who spanks who!!!

some of you failto realize that the rx8 is a naturally aspired engine and the evo is not. do the same kinda mods to an 8 and we'll see who spanks who!!!

Ok, let me see the dyno sheet for that FI RX-8, oh wait... :rolleyes: Even if your imaginery turbo RX-8 did exist the Evo is so obsecenly easy to make faster that it won't matter mod for mod stock for stock, you lose. But you guys do have a nicer interior and a better looking car :rolleyes:

What is the point of comparing a turbo'd up AWD econo car (interiorwise) to a N/A RWD touring car?

You are comparing apples to oranges here.. How about Evo vs Sti? The Sti beats the Evo in just about every acceleration catagory.. What is there to duke out? I havn't seen anybody here really care about comparing the 2 cars except for you.

I don't see why can't you compare these two. You can compare anything you like, you can compare Odyssey to Sienna, you can compare Odyssey to Accord, you can compare 350Z to S2000, you can compare 350Z to G35 sedan, you can compare 350Z to Mini Cooper S. Do they have to be so similar to be compared? In my opinion, both Evo and RX-8 are sports cars, so they are well matched to be compared. I want to see Evo vs. 350Z vs. RX-8 vs. S2000 vs. Sti. They are the fastest cars from each Japanese company.

I'm sorry but the EVO will crush the RX8 in every performance category, even in fuel consumption I'd bet (18/26mpg).

According to Top gear, EVO completed their test track in 1:28.9, RX8 in 1:31.8.

The RX8 has nothing on the EVO or STi, mainly because they are not in the same class!

I don't understand these pointless threads. Everyone already knows the answer. Why beat a dead horse unless you really need the constant reassurance? You don't see Z06 owners coming to this forum and going which faster? RX-8 or Z06.

Honestly an RX-8 owner would never cross shop an Evo. The Evo is the epitome of what kids end up with after heavily modifying their existing 4-door sedans. They are looked up to by all the riced up Civics, Accords, Corollas, and Altimas.

LOL, its just too easy to make fun of the Evo. The car looks just goofy.

Would it make all the Evo owners feel better if we all bought Evos? Then we can be just as cool as you guys.

Another pointless comparison?????
I guess the media fuels these uneven comparos; just have a look at this one from a well respected Australian publication:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=35301

Honestly an RX-8 owner would never cross shop an Evo. The Evo is the epitome of what kids end up with after heavily modifying their existing 4-door sedans. They are looked up to by all the riced up Civics, Accords, Corollas, and Altimas.

LOL, its just too easy to make fun of the Evo. The car looks just goofy.

Would it make all the Evo owners feel better if we all bought Evos? Then we can be just as cool as you guys.


Ummm you're the one with the ricer attitude placing form over function is the epitomy of ricer if you ask me. Also, the Evo was cross shopped by several people on this board, some went Evo, some went RX-8, some got another car. It's really not such a bad comparison, both sporty cars, both handle rather well, and in the same price category.

It's only easy to make fun of the Evo if you could care less about one of the best performance values on the planet and having some of the most fun you'll ever have on 4 wheels.

Honestly an RX-8 owner would never cross shop an Evo. The Evo is the epitome of what kids end up with after heavily modifying their existing 4-door sedans.

Hello? I cross-shopped the two. And I haven't been a kid for many, many years.

It's true that kids drool over it because it's such a monster 1/4-mile car, but that doesn't mean adults can't appreciate it for it's AWD grip, well-balanced handling, and spacious interior as well.

Some of the most intelligent and insightful driving enthusiasts pilot Evos, and many can be found on the Evo forums. However, since the Evo *also* attracts the "I spanked a xxx today!" crowd (unlike the RX-8 for the most part), you have to dig a little harder to find them.

Honestly an RX-8 owner would never cross shop an Evo. The Evo is the epitome of what kids end up with after heavily modifying their existing 4-door sedans. They are looked up to by all the riced up Civics, Accords, Corollas, and Altimas.

LOL, its just too easy to make fun of the Evo. The car looks just goofy.

Would it make all the Evo owners feel better if we all bought Evos? Then we can be just as cool as you guys.

There are too many youngsters who are treating the EVO as a somewhat affordable AWD people friendly sports car god. The car is a lot more sophisticated than that and deserves to be recognised as a very technical car with superior handling than any cheap RWD cars out there.

I know the EVO looks cheap, but it was developed from motor racing, not from a play station. This is a serious toy and nothing like a poser which I shall refrain from naming.

Ummm you're the one with the ricer attitude placing form over function is the epitomy of ricer if you ask me. Also, the Evo was cross shopped by several people on this board, some went Evo, some went RX-8, some got another car. It's really not such a bad comparison, both sporty cars, both handle rather well, and in the same price category.

It's only easy to make fun of the Evo if you could care less about one of the best performance values on the planet and having some of the most fun you'll ever have on 4 wheels.

Personally I think the STi is the better car. Its just more.... man.

LOL, its just too easy to make fun of the Evo. The car looks just goofy.
Sorry...but my 8 looks goofy in its own way: your point?

Would it make all the Evo owners feel better if we all bought Evos? Then we can be just as cool as you guys.
Did you buy your 8 for coolness?

This is a serious toy and nothing like a poser which I shall refrain from naming.
I will rewrite and complete your phrase: "This is a serious toy and nothing like an RX8: all show and no go."

Here, let me rewrite it: "This is a serious toy(??) and nothing soft edged like an RX8." :p -sounds better.

And now, would all of you STOP & read carefuly what he said:
It's really not such a bad comparison, both sporty cars, both handle rather well, and in the same price category.

Enough has been said. Stop it.

Just buy what you like and be happy.

Sorry...but my 8 looks goofy in its own way: your point?


Did you buy your 8 for coolness?

I guess your right, the RX-8 is goofy looking if you say so. I don't own an RX-8. I don't think I want one anymore.

I will rewrite and complete your phrase: "This is a serious toy and nothing like an RX8: all show and no go."

Here, let me rewrite it: "This is a serious toy(??) and nothing soft edged like an RX8." :p -sounds better.

Hey I was thinking of the Cadillac.. :)

The point of comparing the two is that for me they fell into the same catagory along with the 350z, STi, and G35. I didn't care about drivetrain, number of doors, leather, dvd navigation....I cared about which car was the most fun, along with a sticker of around $30k.

I'm not alone either...I know that revhappy was in the same boat as me. I originally was dead set on an RX8 but was crushed when I found out the horsepower. I knew then that the car would not cut it. I still have doubts in my mind everytime I see an RX8 because it is a beautiful car. Wish I had the pockets to have both. The EVO is awesome though and I have no regrets...it's not as good looking but from the drivers seat who cares. From the first time I took the EVO out I knew I was hooked.

Comparing the RX8 to an EVO in performance is simply just not fair. Then again, there's so few cars to compare rx8 to why not discuss it anyway. Owning both STI and RX8 I know just how different they truly are in every category. You can give the nod to the rx8 for it's refinement and pure beauty, and bash the STI or EVO for it's not so good looks and plain interior, then you can rip the rx8 for getting destroyed against an EVO or STI. The comparing can go on and on, but the reality is they are just too different to find anything in common. I admit my rx8 is an absolute dog compared to STI, but it's just as much fun to drive for a different reason. Handling to me is better in STI, yet the way the rx8 hits corners tends to feel better depending on how you are driving. it's certainly understandable why your performance minded car enthusiast will be torn, because the rx8 is so incredible looking, yet it currently does not give you the juice to match it's amazing looks. The EVO and STI don't give you the looks to match it's amazing and power and performance. When will there ever be the perfect car? There's always compensation for luxury, looks and refinement for power and performance. Each car gives you what the other lacks. When it came down to it, I cured my disappointment in rx8 for it's power. I quickly overlooked the EVO, because for some reason it just didnt' look as good to me as STI, even though I admit the STI doesn't exactly make me grin in amazement when I see it parked in driveway. When I drive it, it gives me a grin from ear to ear. The rx8 gives me same feeling when I look at it, and can still keep me happy when I drive it, and the STI can keep me happy when I look at it. It's amazing how much better a car looks when it can perform like an EVO and STI do. I can only imagine what if would feel like if the rx8 had that kind of power. I do think the EVO is a great machine, and it's very comparable to the STI. Subaru did however, compensate a bit on performance to give the car a better daily driver feel, but as far as both cars go it's a pure matter of preference and taste, and it doesn't even bother me in the slightest that the EVO has the edge performance wise. In conclusion, you cannot compare the cars realistically. Even if you mod an RX8 to compete with EVO or STI, then it suddenly becomes unfair and uncomparable, because one car is modded, and the other isn't. Turn around and mod the EVO, and well there you have it, unfair once again. It's still fun to compare cars, even if they can't be compared, so carry on. :)

yet another pointless comparison of the evo,wrx, and 8. how many does this make now?

Ummm you're the one with the ricer attitude placing form over function is the epitomy of ricer if you ask me. Also, the Evo was cross shopped by several people on this board, some went Evo, some went RX-8, some got another car. It's really not such a bad comparison, both sporty cars, both handle rather well, and in the same price category.

It's only easy to make fun of the Evo if you could care less about one of the best performance values on the planet and having some of the most fun you'll ever have on 4 wheels.

Well said.

I've cross shopped the 8 and EVO as well. The EVO is an incredible performer, I was very impressed. However, I was not so impressed with the exterior styling, and even less impressed with the interior styling. The exterior styling has grown on me, but not enough to say that I really like it.

The RX-8 is much more refined than the EVO, and, for me, is a good compromise between balls out performance and refinement/appearance. In terms of pure performance though, it is a waste of time to even discuss it since the EVO is so far ahead of the RX-8.