In lieu of recent happenings and the fact that we had promised a baseline dyno a long time ago we realized that we owed it to our current/future customers to do a baseline dyno and that the fact that we were very busy developing new products and manufacturing existing ones was no excuse for not having this. We made it a point to setup some dyno time with a local shop so we could give you some proof of what the kit is capable of instead of wasting time talking about the issue.

Here is the result:

366whp/265wtq

Here are the conditions for the run and below find the dyno graph:

- Completely out of the box kit with atmospheric dump.
- 13 psi.
- Esmeril Racing Ignition Upgrade Kit.
- ABS/DSC fuse pulled (all other methods failed).
- Between 40-50% humidity and 80deg.
- 91 Octane pump fuel with no additives.

Some clarifications before questions arise:

The dyno we used (the newest/nearest one to our location) was nearly brand new, just installed a few weeks ago and the dyno cell/enclosure hasn’t been finished. No extractor was set up for the exhaust gases and the rear door was unopened due to the opening mechanism not being in place yet. All these variables caused the air inside the Dyno cell to be saturated with low oxygen air(it was a cave with the exhaust facing towards the inside wall) evident by the fact that on the street the car runs at 11.5AFR with this exact setup/map/etc. and when in the dyno it dropped to 10.0-10.2AFR across the board, further dropping to a super low 9.4AFR in the 5200rpm region which was a little detrimental to the tq/hp curve (it would have been at peak from this point on but it suffered a dip in this region). Should our dyno have been well ventilated and the humidity lower (it was storming outside) we expect more can be coaxed from the set-up as it sits.

This current number, however, is more than we anticipated on this A/R turbo housing (our original promise was of 340whp at 13psi and you can see that at 8000rpm the A/R starts limiting peak power a little bit). We feel very confident that with a fully operating dyno (with some kind of airflow going through it ) the results would be even more favorable.

As a further commitment to the community we have set another date where we will go with the car to the dyno again when it is fully operational and do a full blasted run taking the Esmeril Turbo Kit to the max as it comes out of the box. We are expecting this to be within a month’s time and this time we will do whatever it takes to accomplish this.

A video of the run and a new video of the car on the street will follow soon as well.

Thanks,

Chris

Holy Crap!111!!

S

It's nice to finally see some numbers. Well done.

^what he said

very nice guys

looks like theres a very smooth power delivery very supercharger like.....hmmmm...

looks like theres a very smooth power delivery very supercharger like.....hmmmm...

It is smooth unde the boost curve and above it but the transition causes the tires to break loose in third from a roll when under 70deg and low humidity. Makes for a very fun ride :)

Chris

NICE ~~~~~

Another option to consider ... NICE ! :)

Zoom zoom!

holy horsepower Batman

Good job

Very nice numbers!

nice.

thats 2 kits that are +350whp.

put all the haters to rest. the renny is new, all it takes is time and we will see 400whp. it just takes money.

Would be nice to see the x-axis as RPM

Would be nice to see the x-axis as RPM

I actually have one of the runs with RPM in the X axis. Just not an original dyno file, its printed on paper. I will need to scan it and post it tomorrow morning until I can get a hold of the actual dyno file.

Thanks,

Chris

Good work Chris, this will be an intersting car to pull up next to on the highway I bet. :)

Your getting close to race specs it seems... Compare your setup to the D962R Turbo (http://www.diasio.com/) which uses a Garrett G35 Turbo, Tial 44mm external wastegate, intercooler, and larger primary injectors. Their Renesis engine produces 435 bhp, and 235 lb-ft of torque at only 9 psi of boost.

Good work Chris, this will be an intersting car to pull up next to on the highway I bet. :)

Your getting close to race specs it seems... Compare your setup to the D962R Turbo (http://www.diasio.com/) which uses a Garrett G35 Turbo, Tial 44mm external wastegate, intercooler, and larger primary injectors. Their Renesis engine produces 435 bhp, and 235 lb-ft of torque at only 9 psi of boost.

I've had a few encounters....mostly are followed by the "radio adjustment syndrome" where the driver of the loosing car acts like nothing happened and adjusts his radio while trying to look in that direction so he doesn't have to look at me :). Very peculiar....

The D962R revs the crap out of the engine that is why it produces soo much power with so little torque.....very impressive indeed!

Thanks,

Chris

Hot.

Sweet.

sweet jesus mother of god @.@

Excellent.
I'll add it to the dyno comparo.
This is the kit with the pre-tuned Int-X?

holy crap! Nicely done guys!

Excellent.
I'll add it to the dyno comparo.
This is the kit with the pre-tuned Int-X?

This is the kit with the Int-X. It has the base map but it was tuned because the base map is meant to be extremely rich at boosts levels above 10psi for safety reasons with customer installs in case of an issue with a wrongfully installed wastegate or something of the sort. Some tuning is required to get to this but it is with what comes in the kit and nothing more.

Thanks,

Chris

I'm also curious why you have such problems with the DSC/TCS.
I've never had any kind of interference from those systems, even at power levels substantially above this.

I'm also curious why you have such problems with the DSC/TCS.
I've never had any kind of interference from those systems, even at power levels substantially above this.

I don't know if its the same with every car. I have even seen cars with my own eyes that dyno well just pushing the button for 10sec. For some reason mine is not one of them. My system will flash the ABS light and the car will slow down after 6500rpm like I let off the gas if I just push the button for 10sec and do the run in 4th. If I do it in 3rd it doesn't do anything but the numbers are not as realistic because its suck a high ratio. It might have something to do with the 100mph mark as this is where the issues start happening. Either way pulling the fuse with the car in the off position took care of the problem for the entire dyno session.

Also, I would really like to see a chart of an RX-8 at higher than 366whp with a renesis if you have one available. It sounds awesome and might inspire some faith from the people in the forum :)

Thanks,

Chris

Dyno update!

Here is one of the runs with the RPM in the X axis. This was scanned so excuse the quality ;). We will update with a digital copy soon.

MM, Thanks for updating the dyno comparison thread.

It seems as if something is a little off though. On the TQ graph our curve is at all times above the mazsport kit yet on the WHP graph it never surpasses the mazsport graph(weird because we made 4whp more) and from 6000-7600 it even appears as though the mazsport was higher than ours when in that range our tq is higher which makes that impossible since higher tq at the same RPM = more hp. Our max tq should also be edited, it was 265+ not 262 as it says in the block next to the graphs.

Also, please edit our name to read Esmeril instead of Esmiril.

Thanks a million.

Chris

Question: do you have a plot of boost vs. RPM? I see that your torque peak occurs after 7000 rpms (by my guess). Also, do you know what the SAE value was that was used? I wish my torque curve was that smoothe.

simply awesome

Question: do you have a plot of boost vs. RPM? I see that your torque peak occurs after 7000 rpms (by my guess). Also, do you know what the SAE value was that was used? I wish my torque curve was that smoothe.

We do not have a plot of boost vs rpm. Full boost of 13psi was attained way before tq got up there but because of the supper low AFR's(low 9's) in the before and after 5000rpm range, due to the lack of ventilation in the dyno cell, the TQ was disturbed in that region and had to slowly creep back up.

I am confident it would already have been at peak in the 5000-5500rpm region(just like the stock tq peak) in better conditions. We only did 3 passes so there wasn't any tunning done on the dyno.

Thanks,

Chris

MM, Thanks for updating the dyno comparison thread.

It seems as if something is a little off though. On the TQ graph our curve is at all times above the mazsport kit yet on the WHP graph it never surpasses the mazsport graph(weird because we made 4whp more) and from 6000-7600 it even appears as though teh mazsport was higher than ours when in that range our tq is higher which makes that impossible since higher tq at the same RPM = more hp. Our max tq should also be edited, it was 265+ not 262 as it says in the block next to the graphs.

Also, please edit our name to read Esmeril instead of Esmiril.

Chris

Wasn't the run at 13psi (not 8, as the dyno comparison chart says)?

Nice graph, guys. Thanks for finally posting and good luck with the next run

Wasn't the run at 13psi (not 8, as the dyno comparison chart says)?

Nice graph, guys. Thanks for finally posting and good luck with the next run

Yep...I missed that one....haha, thanks for catching that. It was kinda late when MM updated the thread so its understandable :).

Thanks,

Chris

I don't know if its the same with every car. I have even seen cars with my own eyes that dyno well just pushing the button for 10sec. For some reason mine is not one of them. My system will flash the ABS light and the car will slow down after 6500rpm like I let off the gas if I just push the button for 10sec and do the run in 4th. If I do it in 3rd it doesn't do anything but the numbers are not as realistic because its suck a high ratio. It might have something to do with the 100mph mark as this is where the issues start happening. Either way pulling the fuse with the car in the off position took care of the problem for the entire dyno session.

Also, I would really like to see a chart of an RX-8 at higher than 366whp with a renesis if you have one available. It sounds awesome and might inspire some faith from the people in the forum :)

Thanks,

Chris

hey chris,

nice to see this stuff up. good job! as to the abs dsc issues, what ecu flash is the car on?

seems as we have gone through the flashes that problem went away.

beers :beer:

hey chris,

nice to see this stuff up. good job! as to the abs dsc issues, what ecu flash is the car on?

seems as we have gone through the flashes that problem went away.

beers :beer:

I am not sure what flash the car is on. Might be an M or something of the sort. After I went standalone I stopped caring about flashes. The fuse solved the problem though.

Chris

I am not sure what flash the car is on. Might be an M or something of the sort. After I went standalone I stopped caring about flashes. The fuse solved the problem though.

Chris

for the long term life of the car keeping up with the flashes is a very good thing. you are about about 5 or 6 behind. and a lot of oil of the omp. the last on i think is w.

beers :beer:

for the long term life of the car keeping up with the flashes is a very good thing. you are about about 5 or 6 behind. and a lot of oil of the omp. the last on i think is w.

beers :beer:

Oh wow. I'll drop by the dealer then. Its funny, my car is still under all warranty except power train...the techs love it every time I bring it in.

Thanks,

Chris

Oh wow. I'll drop by the dealer then. Its funny, my car is still under all warranty except power train...the techs love it every time I bring it in.

Thanks,

Chris

yep,

beers :beer:

I applied the new dyno (in RPM) to the comparo.
It didn't really improve anything since the actual run was shorter than I calculated.
The Esmeril has a torque bump early on that is attributable to the WG opening, but after that is is virtually identical to the MazSport.
I've included a pic of the raw plots against each other below if there is any question.

http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/misc/es_vs_ms.jpg

I applied the new dyno (in RPM) to the comparo.
It didn't really improve anything since the actual run was shorter than I calculated.
The Esmeril has a torque bump early on that is attributable to the WG opening, but after that is is virtually identical to the MazSport.
I've included a pic of the raw plots against each other below if there is any question.

http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/misc/es_vs_ms.jpg

That is fine, I know this is just with the purpose of having a rough comparison and that it will never be the same as taking all kits to one dyno and doing one after the other, just though I'd point these things out.
The max number at 7500 is 366 however and not 362 so at that point it should look higher or at least the same but not under as it did from last night. In the range where that "bump"(not from the wastegate as that opens from about 4000rpm, it only looks like a bump because it went extremely rich shortly after but would other wise be a consistent part of the tq curve) keeps the tq curve above the mazsport curve it should reflect as higher in hp in this range like in the pic you posted above, but in the comparison thread it didn't look like this unless I am confusing some colors. Our TQ number, boost and name does still need to be changed. The rest is just for visualizing, so I understand.

Thanks for the help.

Chris

MM, I just looked in the comparison thread and it looks vey good!

Our TQ# is still 262 when it was actually 265 but I don't think its that important, we will post another dyno soon anyways ;).

Thanks for the help.

Chris

Sorry. Typo. I'll fix it.
When you have a scaled dyno sheet like that, the difference in 3 ft/lbs will not be visible in the curve.
As you can see in the raw version I posted above, your curve lays almost exactly over the MS curve.

Sorry. Typo. I'll fix it.
When you have a scaled dyno sheet like that, the difference in 3 ft/lbs will not be visible in the curve.
As you can see in the raw version I posted above, your curve lays almost exactly over the MS curve.

Yeah I saw that. Its fine, I'm happy. We will hopefully follow up soon with another dyno anyways. Thanks for the help.

Chris

MM,

I just noticed that the price you are displaying in the comparison thread for our kit now reads $7170, this is not correct. The kit price is $6895 including the Int-X. I assume you added the ignition upgrade to that but that is not the correct number to be there....the kit price in the only thing that should be there simply because all other kits tested are not reflecting the other modifications people had made to their cars. The mazsport dyno run was done with the mazsport ignition solution installed and the one for the MM/BHR dyno run was Mysql's car which had the mazsport ignition solution installed as well. There might be more that had other "non-kit" additions too and we cant determine that so they should be left out. The prices displayed in the comparison thread for the other kits are the prices that the manufacturers are selling the kit for. None of these are taking into account other stuff such as different exhausts, gages, sparkplug wires, boost controllers, or anything else of the sort, therefore our ignition kit should not be added to the total kit cost as if that was the price of the kit. This is in effect changing our kit price from what we set it at and only we are allowed do such a thing.

I want to clarify that we are not trying to hide anything here and that is the reason we clearly stated that we had used the ignition upgrade first thing when I created this dyno thread, we just want to keep a fair/level playing field by comparing apples to apples. Please update this to the correct price of $6895

Thanks,

Chris

Great job Esmeril! Dynos and videos work absolute wonders in changing opinions... glad to see you guys come right back with some solid data and continue pushing the system. The Rx8 needs all the aftermarket support it can get, and these numbers look solid.

Nice numbers Chris,
Any ethanol in the future? :eyetwitch

the one for the MM/BHR dyno run was Mysql's car which had the mazsport ignition solution installed as well.


Just to clarify, I lost 50 whp when I had that ignition on my car, so it's one dyno sheet I don't intend to post.

Nice numbers Chris,
Any ethanol in the future? :eyetwitch

..I dunno...perhaps...;)

Chris

Just to clarify, I lost 50 whp when I had that ignition on my car, so it's one dyno sheet I don't intend to post.

Oh ok, I take that back then. Still, the point of my post was to point out that other kits in the same graph are known to have been run with added cost upgrades and only the kit alone prices are shown in the box, our kit is running 91 pump fuel and it is running exactly what comes out of the box and nothing more. The only addition is the ignition upgrade because it is not possible to post a good dyno without it and we wanted to post a dyno that showed the capabilities of the kit.

****Edit: Computer problems caused me to see old data from the comparison thread so I removed this text****

Best regards,

Chris

Your dyno is listed in the thread. Perhaps MM was updating it? It shows 366/265 $7170

BTW congrats!

Your dyno is listed in the thread. Perhaps MM was updating it? It shows 366/265 $7170

It is listed but it says 302hp and 227tq as of 8/28/08 at 11:00pm. If indeed MM is updating the thread then an apology is due on my part.

BTW, thanks for the props :)

Best regards,

Chris

Maybe I'm looking at the wrong thread?

Here is the thread

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=132628

Here is the dyno and your numbers show 366/265

http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/misc/rx8club_hp.jpg

Maybe I'm looking at the wrong thread?

Here is the thread

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=132628

Here is the dyno and your numbers show 366/265

http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/misc/rx8club_hp.jpg

WTF???? I had not logged on this computer since last night. Apparently it was just recalling the pic from the cookies or something but it was coming up as what was there last time. I kept refreshing and it didn't do a thing until I hit shift+refresh and then it updated everything. Thanks pdxhak....And of course my sincere apologies MM.

Best regards,

Chris

No I'm seeing 366/265. Your dyno is the last one in pink right?

All files were updated at noon PDT.

LOL I was just typing a response saying you should try reloading the page without cache but you just did that :)

I can see it as 366, the graph is still off but who cares...it is a rough comparison graph anyhow. The real one is in this thread for review.

I can see it as 366, the graph is still off but who cares..

The graph is not off. It is dead on within 2 HP and 2 ft/lbs.

The graph is not off. It is dead on within 2 HP and 2 ft/lbs.

I want to apologize for what seemed to be a cache issue. I think for comparison purposes it does the job, although I still don't uderstand why it never passes the Mazsport dyno when it made 4 more whp. Mainly I just wanted the price to be corrected.

Thanks,

Chris

Mainly I just wanted the price to be corrected.


Prices stand.
The Mazsport dyno and price is with the ignition.
The BHR is run and priced without.
Prices are for as-run.
This is why the Pettit had to be dropped back to a different dyno plot.
If you want the base price, then remove the ignition and re-run.

If you have a dispute with this chart, then talk about it in your forum and take up the differences with the other manufacturers and suppliers of the plots.

As I've shown - the raw data aligns perfectly. If you plot doesn't describe the "proper" line, then I suggest that you acquire a more accurate plot.

Prices stand.
The Mazsport dyno and price is with the ignition.
The BHR is run and priced without.
Prices are for as-run.
This is why the Pettit had to be dropped back to a different dyno plot.
If you want the base price, then remove the ignition and re-run.

Oh, I though the Mazsport kit was 8500 for the kit alone, which type was this?

And if that is the way its being done then I am fine with it as long as it is equal for all, I don't think it will make a difference anyways, its just $375.00 more.

Thanks,

Chris

Type I with ignition upgrade.

As a matter of fact, I'll take you one further on that.
The BHR price is WITH the ignition upgrade, even though that dyno was done WITHOUT it.
I should knock the price of the ignition off of the BHR kit, but it isn't sold that way.

The only addition is the ignition upgrade because it is not possible to post a good dyno without it and we wanted to post a dyno that showed the capabilities of the kit.

Chris

well not including the cost of any part required to replicate the advertised dyno isnt exactly honest though it is?
truthfully, either dyno's for all the kits need to be done with out of box equipment and NOTHING else.... or add in cost for extra mods that were used, ie ignition, exhausts, etc

This is the reason I chose to use the lowest dyno that I had for the comparo.
It used the least amount of ancillary equipment and allowed for customer's expectations to be exceeded.

I'm looking forward the the first Esmeril customer to buy this kit now that the dyno is out there and "only" pull 340 HP.
There will be bloody hell to pay.

^ you can't pay bloody hell

"I chose to use the lowest dyno that I had for the comparo."


Ok, and that is your decision, which from a business stand point doesn't make sense to me. Care to share a graph of a higher dyno with your set-up? I have my own library of stuff that I also choose not to disclose ;).


"I'm looking forward the the first Esmeril customer to buy this kit now that the dyno is out there and "only" pull 340 HP."
There will be bloody hell to pay.

I don't think it will be a problem since 340 is what is promised at 13psi without ignition upgrade. Very doable if you ask me, plus no one in their right mind that manufactures a product will limit their published results to what the "promise" was if the product is doing better than anticipated. Still, this is a dyno that shows what the kit is capable off @ 13psi in non-favorable conditions and that is that. Are you suggesting we not disclose what has been accomplished with the components in the kit based on the fact that other stuff was also installed? I don't agree, as long as everything that is there is disclosed to the public. Whether this dyno is the one in a comparison thread or not, whether it includes a 375.00 ignition or not(which we are not hiding at any time), ultimately it is what it is, a good dyno with our kit with no BS. We post what we accomplish, very simple.

Let stay on track since this is not a dyno veracity thread or a business strategy thread. The dyno is there and everything else is 2nd to that.

Thanks,

Chris

to everyone: new dyno coming soon with the same exact setup but a little massaging and less humidity :). Lets see what will be said of this one when we post it.....this just cracks me up!

Keep pushing Chris! I am a SC owner, but I love seeing the envelope pushed regardless of who is doing it with whatever system.

Whoever is first to post a 400whp dyno will be a hero on this forum for a long time.

Keep up the good work Chris, and don't worry how you'll compare to other "dyno's". To many threads fall into that trap :)

Keep posting quality results with a smile and the numbers will speak for themselves :)

Keep up the good work Chris, and don't worry how you'll compare to other "dyno's". To many threads fall into that trap :)

Keep posting quality results with a smile and the numbers will speak for themselves :)

Thanks, I intend to do that.....especially with a smile :)

Chris

Quick question - if you're going to post SAE corrected plots (which is not unusual) can you post what the SAE CF used was? 85 deg F, 85% humidity, and .95 bar ambient (assumed values) gives a CF of 1.09 ish. Ambient conditions aren't posted in the comparison thread and dynoing is a highly inexact science in general practice, but I like to play with the numbers.

Nice numbers on that vehicle.

Yeah, we prefer non-corrected.
That is a point of contention with all the dynos.

The MM is uncorrected. I can't speak for the others because most of the plots did not contain that info.
The Esmeril is SAE corrected, so the variation can be anywhere from 4 to 20 HP, depending on the calibration of the dyno and the actual ambient conditions.
When I turned on the SAE correction on my plot, it picked up 16 HP.

That's why I wasn't going to get involved with quibbling over ± 2 or 3 points on the line.

I think that we should think about the boost as well as the eventual sae corrections. MM\BHR's kit and Esmeril's produce about the same torque but the first one does it at 9psi therefore being a bit ahead for what i know.
I would definitely go for the one that achieves the X results with lower boost levels, either if the car is a daily driver or a track car but i might be wrong.

Meh - as with all things, your mileage may vary. I have a mazsport type 1 and my current torque peak is at 5500 rpms. So, when I get a decent dyno done and the car runs to my satisfaction (likely a couple weeks after coils are in), my dyno probably won't look a lot like the one in the comparison thread and I can't rightly say why. Mostly, it's due to a lack of data. When I'm on the dyno, I have plots of Tq, HP, AFR, and boost going. I can data log timing, water temp, and injector pulse. The total performance of a car is tough to describe with 2 lines. What pushes the Mazsport 1 and Esmeril kits to peak torques near 2k rpm later from stock? Is it the boost not peaking until later? Is it changes in geometry like replacement manifolds? For a street car, you might like that low end grunt to help driveability and performance from a dig. A nice long torque curve also lets you shift less with less penalty. For pure road racing, it's all about top end. How much HP can you make (combination of speed and torque) and can the car sustain that level of output for an extended period of time. You could do laps on a road course and never go below 6k rpms.

Different strokes for different folks. If it'll hold up to a beating, it's A-OK in my book.

Boost is, at best, only an indicator of flow.
Flow is way more important than boost.
The turbo Esmeril uses is (as far as we can tell since he won't discuss the specifics) designed for more flow at higher Pr, putting its peak output at a higher turbine flow rate. This means more lag, but potentially more power at higher RPMs.

It all comes down to where you want your torque.

If you want a dragger, you look at a "big" turbo like the Emeril.
If you want a streetable car, you go with a more streetable turbo.

For pure road racing, it's all about top end.

Not true at all.

For road racing, you want the biggest, flattest torque curve you can get.
Road racing is about corners. Pick the appropriate gear and pound the exit.

I got that.
I would prefer a "smaller" turbo that lags less and spools faster for track use as well as street driveability.

It all about personal preference and making appropriate choices.

Unfortunately, the conversation always turns to horsepower and, as I've said before, horsepower is crap.
Torque is all that matters.

Fortunately, all of the high-output kits in this comparo make torque. You just need to decide where you want it.

When I tune on the dyno, I turn horsepower off. I only tune for torque. Horsepower makes itself.

You're totally right but we all know that in the end there's just one thing that works, and that's keeping the right foot down :)
I think we have to give credit to esmeril's for the place that the turbo has in the engine bay, it seems like a useful position for service etc (not talking about heat etc).

Unfortunately, the conversation always turns to horsepower and, as I've said before, horsepower is crap.
Torque is all that matters.

Fortunately, all of the high-output kits in this comparo make torque. You just need to decide where you want it.

When I tune on the dyno, I turn horsepower off. I only tune for torque. Horsepower makes itself.

Horsepower and torque are both crap if you just throw them out as a single peak number like most people do. "My car makes 350 HP!!!" Big deal. The only way to evaluate an engine's performance in a meaningful way is to look at an entire dyno plot... and in that case, either HP or torque would do (you can derive one from the other after all).

That being said, I'd much rather look at a torque curve than a HP curve.

Torque is as close to a "raw" number as you can get.
Horsepower is a calculation, so you have to start thinking about time and gearing and it just doesn't do anything for you when you are looking for optimal fuel and timing.

Tune for torque, get it right and then turn on the CF to SAE and hand the owner a horsepower plot to make them happy.
(j/k)

Tune for torque, get it right and then turn on the CF to SAE and hand the owner a horsepower plot to make them happy.
(j/k)

That's pretty much how it goes :rollingla

I agree that you generally want to increase torque everywhere when possible, but if you can gain high end torque by sacrificing low end torque (say be fiddling with the intake runner length or something) then it could be worth it depending on where the engine's output currently is, how the transmission is geared, and what you plan on doing with the car.

Anyway, I'm not really disagreeing with you, I'm just bored and upping my post count. I'll shut up now :)

^^ You are spot-on, so jack that post count!

Not true at all.

For road racing, you want the biggest, flattest torque curve you can get.
Road racing is about corners. Pick the appropriate gear and pound the exit.

a flat torque curve is nice but not that much good to you on a road course - my revs never drop below 5500 so tell me how having gobs of torque at 3000 is going to help me ?

Higher gear.
One of the beautiful things about having all that torque down low is that I don't shift much on a road course.
Places where you would normally go down to 2nd are much faster for me in 3rd.
I can do most of Firebird west entirely in 3rd.
Its only in the straights I need to shift because I'm getting into triple-digits.

So really what you are saying is that having more torque low down makes the car easier to drive fast due to fewer gear changes . That is a fair point and i guess it would help most drivers .
For good drivers I doubt it would make that much difference - it just means it takes more effort and skill to keep the engine in the optimum rev range .

tighter courses and shifting less generally means you should be faster. this of course assumes all things being equal.

For good drivers I doubt it would make that much difference - it just means it takes more effort and skill to keep the engine in the optimum rev range .

Good or not, any time spent in between gears is time not doing something fast.
Also, at higher revs (engine wear not withstanding), the effects of lift-throttle are totally different.

so what is the lowest revs you would drop to on he track , with your setup ?

3k or so, I guess. If I had to go below that, I'd down-shift.
IDK. I've never really thought about it.
I just drive and mash it.

I think if you paid attention you would find it is a lot higher than you guessed :)
Even with your setup - if you were going below 4500 i would have to say your driving sucks .......

Well, I'm pretty sure if you came out of a turn in third that another similar Rx-8 downshifted to second, he would blow your doors off traction not withstanding. If you're at 3000 rpms, he's at about 4200. Not only is he closer to his torque peak, but he is also taking advantage of a 35-40% mechanical advantage from being in a lower gear. I'm not a competitive racer, but that's simple math.

Now, I'm not going to get into the tune for torque circle jerk. Any car you're tuning has a fixed functional RPM range, and, thus, a fixed multiplier for HP. Tuning for the most torque will get you the most hp. Tuning for the broadest torque as well will get you the broadest power curve. That's just proper tuning. However, when driving, you have to be mindful of where your car makes it's maximum power as that is the best combination of torque and gearing that you will get. If you had a gear box set up so that at 40 miles an hour, 3rd put you at your torque peak and 2nd put you at your horsepower peak, driving in second would put more torque to the ground.

Conversely, if your car is all top end, you can actually be a fairly poor drag car. I often hear this as Supra Syndrome. You either have to spin the crap out of the wheels to avoid bogging in your low rpms or you lose more time getting out of first than your top end can make up.

Then again, all this is resultant of getting a good tune on the parts you put in your car. So friends don't let friends drive on bad tunes?

Like I said, IDK.
I do know that in third, coming around just about any corner at any speed, I have to be mindful of the throttle or it will light up.

Maybe I'm looking at the wrong thread?

Here is the thread

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=132628

Here is the dyno and your numbers show 366/265

http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/misc/rx8club_hp.jpg

Keep in mind that the MAZSPORT TURBO KIT was not pushed harder since the owner of the car did not want to go any higher. I am sure Scott could have gotten a few hp if the owner allowed him too.

Keep in mind that the MAZSPORT TURBO KIT was not pushed harder since the owner of the car did not want to go any higher. I am sure Scott could have gotten a few hp if the owner allowed him too.

What the hell does that mean?

It's already at 13 psi. Why didn't you put a disclaimer that the Pettit kit didn't do 16 psi because the owner didn't want to push it higher? :Eyecrazy:

The BHR kit is still running 9 psi. You sure as hell can go higher with it, as can any other kit listed (besides the stock greddy kit, since that's pretty much as high as it can go)

It means i believe that Mazsport could have gotten more rwhp if the owner would have let them. I do not know if the owner only wanted to go to 13psi.

That's not really how tuning works.

Like I said, IDK.
I do know that in third, coming around just about any corner at any speed, I have to be mindful of the throttle or it will light up.

That is sweet! With my current tune, which has changed a bit since we did the dyno, the car lights up the tires in third when it goes over 6000 in the dry going straight down the highway. And that is with 19X10 and 275 sticky rubber in the rear. Lots of fun but at times it gets scary. You must be enjoying your car incredibly. Above 350whp is where they really start getting fun.

Chris

That is sweet! With my current tune, which has changed a bit since we did the dyno, the car lights up the tires in third when it goes over 6000 in the dry going straight down the highway. And that is with 19X10 and 275 sticky rubber in the rear. Lots of fun but at times it gets scary. You must be enjoying your car incredibly. Above 350whp is where they really start getting fun.

Chris
shoot, I would be happy with 300rwhp....

again, nice job guys :ylsuper: :Drooling_ :bowdown: :icon_tup: :wiggle:

My dcs is going off also and the switch/button doesn't dp anything when pressed. I afraid it will suddenly come on when I take it for autoXing soon. ouch!:Eyecrazy:
My tuning is coming in the 20th of sept. maybe the tuning guy will answer my questions. Anyone know why?


mazsport stage 1 kit plus ignition solution

^check to see if your flashes are recent with mazda like swoope said

Well , time to start saving money for a turbo kit lol :eyetwitch . Why do you guys like to empty my bank so much? You guys are evil , that money could have gone to my heart transplant , but no. Good job on the kit , any idea on reliability? Is running 13 psi "pushing the limit"?

This is what i was told from scott kit and he said "every so often". He was relaying to the 400 hp you all die to have. I haven't tuned mine yet but F it I will do the deed! Good job on the readings and may the boost be with you!

Already been done.
The problem is it is problematic in a hot environment on street fuel.

I wouldn't drive my car every day like that, so the dyno is meaningless to me.

shoot, I would be happy with 300rwhp....

again, nice job guys :ylsuper: :Drooling_ :bowdown: :icon_tup: :wiggle:

id be happy with 225whp :lol2:

Any other pics of the engine bay?

eh, I have some pics I took during my install, here are a couple of them. It's all I've got on me at the moment. If you want a shot of something specific, lemme know, I'll try and nab it.


http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t330/GaMEChld/IMG_1586.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t330/GaMEChld/IMG_1587.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t330/GaMEChld/IMG_1590.jpg

I really like how that kit makes the engine bay look

me too, I think it looks so damned good. but hey, its my car so i'm biased

I don't like how it takes out the bumper support though to fit the FMIC

it doesn't, rebar still fits.

how's that? does it go around the fmic? from those pics, it looks like it wouldn't work.

I have to say thank you to Esmeril! THANK YOU for making a good kit at a nice price and power level! I hear the X is locked, how does this get tuned?

how's that? does it go around the fmic? from those pics, it looks like it wouldn't work.

yes the rebar will fit around it. it was an issue brought up when they first debuted the kit and they listened to the people here and kept it.

I really like how that kit makes the engine bay look

have to agree - few kits do this .
Don't like the air intake position - but don't see any other options ...

yes the rebar will fit around it. it was an issue brought up when they first debuted the kit and they listened to the people here and kept it.
freakin sweet.

so you ever gonna install yours Ngo?

I want to know that too !! :) at least U want to sell it to me by half of the price :)

lol, sadly no. i will be trying to sell it again. i have some other plans i'd like to do instead, even though it won't make the engine bay look as sick as this one.

I'm surprised nobody picked it up yet.......

do your other plans include FI?

The bumper support still fits, however, the catch is that you need to file/grind down a couple of bungs on the side that faces to cooler because they will interfere. This is some heavy duty metal so it can be quite tough. Personally, I just forked it over to a machine shop that I was going to anyway and had them lop them off because my tools were just not up to that task.

... And then I ended taking it out anyway because I like the way it looks without the grill, also potentially saving a few pounds, since the kit adds weight too. (just trying to rationalize a purely cosmetic decision with other junk)

I will be upgrading my ignition and tuning the car in spring, would it be at all benificial to replace the primary injectors to the mazsport 650ccs? wasnt someone saying at one point the primarys under load have a 90% duty cycle?

The bumper support still fits, however, the catch is that you need to file/grind down a couple of bungs on the side that faces to cooler because they will interfere. This is some heavy duty metal so it can be quite tough. Personally, I just forked it over to a machine shop that I was going to anyway and had them lop them off because my tools were just not up to that task.

... And then I ended taking it out anyway because I like the way it looks without the grill, also potentially saving a few pounds, since the kit adds weight too. (just trying to rationalize a purely cosmetic decision with other junk)

i hope you dont ever end up in a front end collision at total impact speed over 40mph or so.....:icon_no2:

i hope you dont ever end up in a front end collision at total impact speed over 40mph or so.....:icon_no2:

::shrug:: I don't plan on it, whatever happens, so be it.

Any word on the next dyno run that was mentioned in the first post?

Any word on the next dyno run that was mentioned in the first post?

Another dyno is still in our sights. In the meantime we have been working on new videos, website updates, most importantly new product testing, and more. It has been exciting around here :ylsuper:

yeah wow, I just realized more products were added to the Esmeril site. cool beans

I hope Esmeril doesn't stop posting... gives us some more tasty little treats! With kits like the Esmeril and BHR/MM at a great price it realy will put this car in a different league. I only wish someone could do a real side by side coparo of two different FI's for all to see.

I hope Esmeril doesn't stop posting... gives us some more tasty little treats! With kits like the Esmeril and BHR/MM at a great price it realy will put this car in a different league. I only wish someone could do a real side by side coparo of two different FI's for all to see.
try this thread for a comparison:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=132628

We all know too well about that thread.... Yea what I would like to see is a side by side video as to how the all perform. Some are great power but way up high not to be seen in much everyday driving. Some down low and run out of air if you push it a bit. If we could just see how they work in a real world and not just dyno results. Also compared to a modern high po car. Ya know.

that's going to be a tough one to accomplish......that dyno thread is the only other comparison I think.

Chris the car that you used to get that 414hp number is that one that you just put together the way it normally should be and a car that is driven all the time?

That car is the standard kit plus the ignition upgrade. I believe he daily drives it with the 365WHP tune.

That car is the standard kit plus the ignition upgrade. I believe he daily drives it with the 365WHP tune.

Actually, I have been daily driving it at 16psi(414whp) ever since we got that number ;)

Chris:lol2:

^ LOL! Chris you madman!

Now thats what I'm talking about! He's confident about his product so he's pushing it further! I don't what to say but I'd still love to see how progressivley this kit makes the power. How's the tune? quick flight to NY for a tune Chris for a fellow PR and quick tune....

i have herd bad stories about this kit. like oil being everywhere u could think of. n a knock off turbo? knock off filter? tht is just frm one thread i have read n streerd me away frm the kit.BUT if u could PM me with sum re-asurence then i will def order in january

Sounds like someone botched an installation if they got oil everywhere. One of my oil lines loosened a little and leaked some oil once, but I tightened that up just fine. As for the turbo internals, I can't speak for the innards, but mine is still going strong. Seems like a very solid kit to me. People will argue about the turbo sizing, some want this turbo, others want it a tad smaller to spool faster. But the quality of the kit is pretty spot on.

^wasn't a botched installation, he got a bad knock off turbo

it is a well engineered kit and very well thought out, just uses cheap parts.