pdxhak

iTrader: (2)

No I'm seeing 366/265. Your dyno is the last one in pink right?

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

All files were updated at noon PDT.

pdxhak

iTrader: (2)

LOL I was just typing a response saying you should try reloading the page without cache but you just did that

truemagellen

I can see it as 366, the graph is still off but who cares...it is a rough comparison graph anyhow. The real one is in this thread for review.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

The graph is not off. It is dead on within 2 HP and 2 ft/lbs.

ChrisRX8PR

iTrader: (1)

I want to apologize for what seemed to be a cache issue. I think for comparison purposes it does the job, although I still don't uderstand why it never passes the Mazsport dyno when it made 4 more whp. Mainly I just wanted the price to be corrected.

Thanks,

Chris

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Prices stand.
The Mazsport dyno and price is with the ignition.
The BHR is run and priced without.
Prices are for as-run.
This is why the Pettit had to be dropped back to a different dyno plot.
If you want the base price, then remove the ignition and re-run.

If you have a dispute with this chart, then talk about it in your forum and take up the differences with the other manufacturers and suppliers of the plots.

As I've shown - the raw data aligns perfectly. If you plot doesn't describe the "proper" line, then I suggest that you acquire a more accurate plot.

ChrisRX8PR

iTrader: (1)

Oh, I though the Mazsport kit was 8500 for the kit alone, which type was this?

And if that is the way its being done then I am fine with it as long as it is equal for all, I don't think it will make a difference anyways, its just $375.00 more.

Thanks,

Chris

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Type I with ignition upgrade.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

As a matter of fact, I'll take you one further on that.
The BHR price is WITH the ignition upgrade, even though that dyno was done WITHOUT it.
I should knock the price of the ignition off of the BHR kit, but it isn't sold that way.

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

well not including the cost of any part required to replicate the advertised dyno isnt exactly honest though it is?
truthfully, either dyno's for all the kits need to be done with out of box equipment and NOTHING else.... or add in cost for extra mods that were used, ie ignition, exhausts, etc

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

This is the reason I chose to use the lowest dyno that I had for the comparo.
It used the least amount of ancillary equipment and allowed for customer's expectations to be exceeded.

I'm looking forward the the first Esmeril customer to buy this kit now that the dyno is out there and "only" pull 340 HP.
There will be bloody hell to pay.

tajabaho1

^ you can't pay bloody hell

ChrisRX8PR

iTrader: (1)

Ok, and that is your decision, which from a business stand point doesn't make sense to me. Care to share a graph of a higher dyno with your set-up? I have my own library of stuff that I also choose not to disclose .

I don't think it will be a problem since 340 is what is promised at 13psi without ignition upgrade. Very doable if you ask me, plus no one in their right mind that manufactures a product will limit their published results to what the "promise" was if the product is doing better than anticipated. Still, this is a dyno that shows what the kit is capable off @ 13psi in non-favorable conditions and that is that. Are you suggesting we not disclose what has been accomplished with the components in the kit based on the fact that other stuff was also installed? I don't agree, as long as everything that is there is disclosed to the public. Whether this dyno is the one in a comparison thread or not, whether it includes a 375.00 ignition or not(which we are not hiding at any time), ultimately it is what it is, a good dyno with our kit with no BS. We post what we accomplish, very simple.

Let stay on track since this is not a dyno veracity thread or a business strategy thread. The dyno is there and everything else is 2nd to that.

Thanks,

Chris

to everyone: new dyno coming soon with the same exact setup but a little massaging and less humidity . Lets see what will be said of this one when we post it.....this just cracks me up!

morkusyambo

Keep pushing Chris! I am a SC owner, but I love seeing the envelope pushed regardless of who is doing it with whatever system.

Whoever is first to post a 400whp dyno will be a hero on this forum for a long time.

dillsrotary

Keep up the good work Chris, and don't worry how you'll compare to other "dyno's". To many threads fall into that trap

Keep posting quality results with a smile and the numbers will speak for themselves

ChrisRX8PR

iTrader: (1)

Thanks, I intend to do that.....especially with a smile

Chris

maxxdamigz

iTrader: (1)

Quick question - if you're going to post SAE corrected plots (which is not unusual) can you post what the SAE CF used was? 85 deg F, 85% humidity, and .95 bar ambient (assumed values) gives a CF of 1.09 ish. Ambient conditions aren't posted in the comparison thread and dynoing is a highly inexact science in general practice, but I like to play with the numbers.

Nice numbers on that vehicle.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, we prefer non-corrected.
That is a point of contention with all the dynos.

The MM is uncorrected. I can't speak for the others because most of the plots did not contain that info.
The Esmeril is SAE corrected, so the variation can be anywhere from 4 to 20 HP, depending on the calibration of the dyno and the actual ambient conditions.
When I turned on the SAE correction on my plot, it picked up 16 HP.

That's why I wasn't going to get involved with quibbling over ± 2 or 3 points on the line.

bse50

I think that we should think about the boost as well as the eventual sae corrections. MM\BHR's kit and Esmeril's produce about the same torque but the first one does it at 9psi therefore being a bit ahead for what i know.
I would definitely go for the one that achieves the X results with lower boost levels, either if the car is a daily driver or a track car but i might be wrong.

maxxdamigz

iTrader: (1)

Meh - as with all things, your mileage may vary. I have a mazsport type 1 and my current torque peak is at 5500 rpms. So, when I get a decent dyno done and the car runs to my satisfaction (likely a couple weeks after coils are in), my dyno probably won't look a lot like the one in the comparison thread and I can't rightly say why. Mostly, it's due to a lack of data. When I'm on the dyno, I have plots of Tq, HP, AFR, and boost going. I can data log timing, water temp, and injector pulse. The total performance of a car is tough to describe with 2 lines. What pushes the Mazsport 1 and Esmeril kits to peak torques near 2k rpm later from stock? Is it the boost not peaking until later? Is it changes in geometry like replacement manifolds? For a street car, you might like that low end grunt to help driveability and performance from a dig. A nice long torque curve also lets you shift less with less penalty. For pure road racing, it's all about top end. How much HP can you make (combination of speed and torque) and can the car sustain that level of output for an extended period of time. You could do laps on a road course and never go below 6k rpms.

Different strokes for different folks. If it'll hold up to a beating, it's A-OK in my book.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Boost is, at best, only an indicator of flow.
Flow is way more important than boost.
The turbo Esmeril uses is (as far as we can tell since he won't discuss the specifics) designed for more flow at higher Pr, putting its peak output at a higher turbine flow rate. This means more lag, but potentially more power at higher RPMs.

It all comes down to where you want your torque.

If you want a dragger, you look at a "big" turbo like the Emeril.
If you want a streetable car, you go with a more streetable turbo.

Not true at all.

For road racing, you want the biggest, flattest torque curve you can get.
Road racing is about corners. Pick the appropriate gear and pound the exit.

bse50

I got that.
I would prefer a "smaller" turbo that lags less and spools faster for track use as well as street driveability.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

It all about personal preference and making appropriate choices.

Unfortunately, the conversation always turns to horsepower and, as I've said before, horsepower is crap.
Torque is all that matters.

Fortunately, all of the high-output kits in this comparo make torque. You just need to decide where you want it.

When I tune on the dyno, I turn horsepower off. I only tune for torque. Horsepower makes itself.

bse50

You're totally right but we all know that in the end there's just one thing that works, and that's keeping the right foot down
I think we have to give credit to esmeril's for the place that the turbo has in the engine bay, it seems like a useful position for service etc (not talking about heat etc).