oh, do dealers keep testing results on file? b/c the original dealer that i took the 1st power loss to (it's a different dealer than now) did a compression test and said that it was "good" ... but i never saw the numbers. should they have that on file if i call them?

They will probably charge you an hour of labor to do a compression test.

As for numbers, Im sure you have the right to know. but compression test is not 100% accurate anymore. Some engine had bad numbers, it went to Mazda it turn out to be within spec. So they introduce Vacuum test. It should be able to tell ya right away if the engine is good.

They will probably charge you an hour of labor to do a compression test.

As for numbers, Im sure you have the right to know. but compression test is not 100% accurate anymore. Some engine had bad numbers, it went to Mazda it turn out to be within spec. So they introduce Vacuum test. It should be able to tell ya right away if the engine is good.

thanks ny. so i should get a comp test AND a vacuum test to be sure?

here are my thoughts for now. pull the car from the dealer, do the de-carb myself to save money, maybe check the sparks and coils but hopefully they're fine. the 2 power loss issues were random, and about 6 months apart. i have 10 months left on my p/t warranty, so there's really no rush for me to figure this out right away, ya know? so i think i'll pull it, de-carb myself, then live with it for a few months. if it happens again, or more frequently, i'll bring it in a get the tests done right away, b/c that probably means engine failure. but if it doesn't happen at all, then i can just smile, and take it in when my p/t warranty is almost up and pay for the testing then!! i mean, why break the bank now when it's a random problem and i have more time to draw it out?!

thanks ny. so i should get a comp test AND a vacuum test to be sure?

here are my thoughts for now. pull the car from the dealer, do the de-carb myself to save money, maybe check the sparks and coils but hopefully they're fine. the 2 power loss issues were random, and about 6 months apart. i have 10 months left on my p/t warranty, so there's really no rush for me to figure this out right away, ya know? so i think i'll pull it, de-carb myself, then live with it for a few months. if it happens again, or more frequently, i'll bring it in a get the tests done right away, b/c that probably means engine failure. but if it doesn't happen at all, then i can just smile, and take it in when my p/t warranty is almost up and pay for the testing then!! i mean, why break the bank now when it's a random problem and i have more time to draw it out?!

I think you should keep complaining about power loss at another dealership until they go ahead and run the test.

Then you will have something on the record, in case anything happens in the future, u will have a case.

mazda na update:

got a hold of na today, the rep was nice, but she didn't know shit about the car. she called the dealer, talked to the service manager and basically confirmed the story. basically, b/c it's a tsb and not a recall, the p/t warranty doesn't cover it. she said it's to prevent anyone and everyone from coming in any given day and saying 'de-carb and test my engine, i felt power loss' ... which i get. but my counter argument was, my problem has been documented as far back as 6-8 months ago, when i DID have the full warranty, and it's not my fault mazda just now brought out a new tsb to potentially alleviate the problem! she didn't care for that, ha ha. so she said to take up the possibility of a comp'd compression test w/ the dealer, but the de-carb was categorized as maintenance, and being out of warranty it's not covered.

the funny part was when the dealer quoted her that it would cost me $250 to do the de-carb, and that's all i needed done. they told me originally that i had to get the de-carb AND new spark plugs, totally $360 ... F that, they totally tried to scam an extra $100+ by selling me spark plugs. THAT, is shady. I'll be picking my car up tomorrow from this dealer...

I think you should keep complaining about power loss at another dealership until they go ahead and run the test.

Then you will have something on the record, in case anything happens in the future, u will have a case.

that's a good point. i might take it to the original dealer where i complained of power loss ... that'll take the dealer-to-dealer talk out of the equation. if i go to them and say, 'look, you tested this months ago and said it was fine, but it's not, so you can at least test it' ... maybe that'll work....

mazda na update:

got a hold of na today, the rep was nice, but she didn't know shit about the car. she called the dealer, talked to the service manager and basically confirmed the story. basically, b/c it's a tsb and not a recall, the p/t warranty doesn't cover it. she said it's to prevent anyone and everyone from coming in any given day and saying 'de-carb and test my engine, i felt power loss' ... which i get. but my counter argument was, my problem has been documented as far back as 6-8 months ago, when i DID have the full warranty, and it's not my fault mazda just now brought out a new tsb to potentially alleviate the problem! she didn't care for that, ha ha. so she said to take up the possibility of a comp'd compression test w/ the dealer, but the de-carb was categorized as maintenance, and being out of warranty it's not covered.

the funny part was when the dealer quoted her that it would cost me $250 to do the de-carb, and that's all i needed done. they told me originally that i had to get the de-carb AND new spark plugs, totally $360 ... F that, they totally tried to scam an extra $100+ by selling me spark plugs. THAT, is shady. I'll be picking my car up tomorrow from this dealer... I don't think it's an issue of bumper to bumper vs powertrain warranties. Neither automatically covers a TSB. But if the power loss issue is real, the dealer will do the TSB as part of the powertrain warranty. The problem is only getting the dealer to take your power loss issue seriously. That's why it's wise to talk to different dealer service departments. If you had this complaint looked at previously by a different dealer, yes, I'd go back to them. Go to as many as you want. Even write a letter to Mazda NA to document your powerloss complaint now before your powertrain warranty runs out.

latest and greatest:

around 11am i got a call from the service manager at the dealer ... finally! i was literally going to go there at lunch to pull my car from them. he wasn't he nicest guy in the world, but he was direct and explained the situation fully, unlike the na rep and the service tech.

so, for those of us outside the main warranty, but within the p/t warranty .......

tsb's are not recalls. they are not mandatory, they are just to possibly "help" you maintain your car. as such, they are NOT covered under the p/t warranty. however, if you (like i did) have documented compliants pertaining to the issue that the tsb addresses, then you'll be in the following situation: you have to pay for the tsb, BUT, if the tsb does not alleviate the issue, THEN mazda na will fix it at no cost AND reimburse you for the original tsb billing. that makes sense to me, and i'm ok with it.

the other issue i had to take up with him was the lack of clarification of what they were going to do. the na rep said the de-carb was $250, and that was it. the serv mngr said it's $250 for the entire tsb, including the de-carb, re-flash, and all the appropriate testing (vacuum, compression, etc.). my initial concern was they would to the de-carb, then do a "drive-test" and say it was fine, thus sticking me with the bill b/c the issue was "fixed". but the do a full test for that price, and will give me concrete info whether the engine's numbers are good or it needs to be replaced.

sigh, i'll update tomorrow when i get the numbers back...thanks again for everyone's input.

I can't really argue with his explanation. My initial thought was pretty much right along those line - Mazda can't just pay for the de-carb TSB work for every 8 owner who walks in and says the words "power loss" or "hard-start."

Ask for copies of all the info so you have the results in hand - print outs, not just in Mazda's/Dealership records. Just make sure they are testing before & after the decarb, so you know if it even made any difference.

I can't really argue with his explanation. My initial thought was pretty much right along those line - Mazda can't just pay for the de-carb TSB work for every 8 owner who walks in and says the words "power loss" or "hard-start."


I can't either. i can see everyone coming in saying "do this, i swear i had power loss". my main beef was two fold:

1. b/c i had the issue documented earlier, BEFORE the tsb came out, then mazda "fixes" the issue 2 months after my full warranty expires, i feel like i should be comp'd by na for the whole process. essentially, i am being punished because mazda couldn't figure the issue out sooner, ya know? i see how it's there to prevent new ppl from just showing up claiming power loss, but having had the issue before, i should be grandfathered into tsb, i think.

and 2. they just weren't clear at first. i'm fine with paying $250 for the full tsb, with the possibility of it being comp'd if my engine is toast; but originally they said 360, then they said 250 for the "de-carb" only, without explaining that it would actually cover the entire tsb (testing, reflash, and de-carb).

so anyway, i feel better about the dealer now after talking to the service manager. i'll post tomorrow as soon as i hear something back.

Ask for copies of all the info so you have the results in hand - print outs, not just in Mazda's/Dealership records. Just make sure they are testing before & after the decarb, so you know if it even made any difference.

good idea. i made that clear on the phone so i'll make sure to get the papers. oh, w/ regard to the before & after, i made that point too, and he kinda glazed over it. i got the impression that mazda na doesn't care about b & a, all they're concerned about is after the relevant tsb, are the engine's numbers satisfactory or not, at which point they'll decide it's good or that they need to replace it.

I don't see any barometer vs vacuum readings chart anywhere, did I miss it or is this some top secret Mazda mojo ... :hahano:

just got word -- na decided the tests were bad enough to put a new motor in! hopefully i'll get it back mid-next week!!

i'll get the specific numbers when i pick it up to share with everyone. dealer said the numbers were "borderline", so good thing mazda na decided to replace it.

suh-weet!!

all that arguing w/ them is now moot, na picks up the bill for the $250 tsb! :ylsuper:

Did they do the tests before or after the decarb or both?

Did they do the tests before or after the decarb or both?

as far as i know the tests were only done AFTER the de-carb. at which point they were "borderline", and na said put in a new motor.

the dealership called me about 8:20am, saying they faxed in the tests to na last night, and they normally take 24 to 36 hrs to respond. then he called back about 8:45am and said na had already gotten all the info and to put in a re-man! that's fast work!!

Thanks. Sorry about your engine, but I am very happy for you that it will be covered. As someone who is fully out of all warranties, I am hoping that my engine will not go the same way.

It's good to hear that Mazda is taking car of you. Sucks about the engine, but hopefully the new one will work out well.

I don't see any barometer vs vacuum readings chart anywhere, did I miss it or is this some top secret Mazda mojo ... :hahano:

doesn't the testing kit use the stock baro as the reference pressure?... thats what it kinda seems like to me in which case they only need to go by a voltage number

It's good to hear that Mazda is taking car of you. Sucks about the engine, but hopefully the new one will work out well.

thanks dmc. it IS good to hear they're taking care of it properly! I'm super relieved.

i WAS hoping i'd be one of the 75k+ on-the-original-engine-owners, but hey, i'll take it while it's under warranty i guess!

i'll post next week once i get behind the wheel...

Thanks. Sorry about your engine, but I am very happy for you that it will be covered. As someone who is fully out of all warranties, I am hoping that my engine will not go the same way.

thanks for the kind words.

fyi - from 0 to 49k, the only issue i had with my 8 was a faulty cat, which was replaced under warranty somewhere around 20k i think. anyway, i had no other issues or signs of this problem until about 47k - had my first power loss issue. got it tested then, and dealer said it was "good". ran fine for another 2k, about 6 ot 8 months. then had a random power loss again, this time with the marbles-in-a-can. that's where i am now. point being, i sincerely HOPE it doesn't happen to you either, but my seemed to have jumped up out of nowhere :dunno: i guess i'll never know how much longer I could have lasted on that engine if i hadn't brought it in, but mazda na decided it's bad enough to replace...

oh, i did have 2 or 3 random stalls-at-a-stop-light on a hot day in the past year, but no other real signs of what has happened, until it happened, if that makes sense.

My car is running well at 66K miles so I can't complain. I haven't done the new reflash yet. I am waiting until I need an oil change so I can do it all at once. Thanks for the response and enjoy that new engine. :)

as far as i know the tests were only done AFTER the de-carb. at which point they were "borderline", and na said put in a new motor.

the dealership called me about 8:20am, saying they faxed in the tests to na last night, and they normally take 24 to 36 hrs to respond. then he called back about 8:45am and said na had already gotten all the info and to put in a re-man! that's fast work!!
Glad to hear it. I wouldn't be surprised if your own discussions with Mazda helped them make that quick and responsible decision.

I dont know if they where trying 2 rip you off man but for my TSB they are not charging me anything, including the de-carb i already called and found out. When i asked the service tech he told me it was no charge because it came down from mazda. If you search on some of the forums there have been members still in warranty that have been charged at certain dealers and others that have not. Just giving you a heads up. I used to work a dealer and i know how they can be when it comes up to trying 2 get the custmors money.

it seems so sad at times when we all might get help from the dealer(ya i work for ford) from time to time then when that wro runs out at 50,000 things seem to turn for the worst as far as help.i say this for i am glad i know better and how to get around these fools who think they can charge out the behind for things that were aready covered but they want to charge you for.i am talking about tsb's that seem to pop up at very odd times after the wro is over and the problem comes to light !(sun visor dealer wanted $253.00 to replace!)i never even use the damm thing and the day we get a 75+ temp. the piece of you know what was dropping down like it got shot so i took it down and apart super glued the damm thing and problem solved.this only proves that if you take the time to do it yourself sometimes your better off.sorry bout the long ass thought but these guys really piss me off.

all in all should not the tsb's stay in effect for the life of the car regardless of miles for they know they made the mistake in the fist place and time on defects vary car to car?still blowing off steam!!

TSBs are NOT recalls.
They are simply notes to the dealers that cars that come in for other things should be serviced as indicated.
They are designed to help dealers address complaints.

They have no obligation to perform the procedures on out-of-warranty cars.

TSBs are NOT recalls.
They are simply notes to the dealers that cars that come in for other things should be serviced as indicated.
They are designed to help dealers address complaints.

They have no obligation to perform the procedures on out-of-warranty cars.

well said -- it's that simple.

my main beef WAS that my complaint stemmed back to when i was in warranty, so i didn't like being penalized b/c the tsb came out later than when my problem started. but you're right, it's not a recall.

Glad to hear it. I wouldn't be surprised if your own discussions with Mazda helped them make that quick and responsible decision.

thanks. you might be right. i mean it was within an hour that they saw the results, made the decision, and contacted the dealer. that's a pretty quick decision. maybe the rep i talked to at na made sure i was taken care of ... who knows, but it was nice to hear back that quickly. props to mazda...

I don't see any barometer vs vacuum readings chart anywhere, did I miss it or is this some top secret Mazda mojo ... :hahano:

still looking for an answer; vacuum is dependent on altitude, which is why they record the voltages for both the baro and vacuum sensors. You need a chart to determine what's the proper vacuum reading for the altitude you're conducting the test at, the same as having to know the rpm to perform a proper compression test ...

still looking for an answer; vacuum is dependent on altitude, which is why they record the voltages for both the baro and vacuum sensors. You need a chart to determine what's the proper vacuum reading for the altitude you're conducting the test at, the same as having to know the rpm to perform a proper compression test ...

sorry, i don't know anything about that...:dunno:

what would be the difference in the vacuum reading on a car at sea level versus a car at 1K feet above sea level?
olddragger

i just got home from picking up my car at the dealer..got an oil change, white oil dipstick repair, inspection, new front brake pads, and the latest flash. The car definitely runs more smoothly, but when i go to neutral (stoplight) the rpms drop to 500 and the car stutters, then jumps to 1200 and back down to 800 (my norm before the flash). This happens EVERY time I go to neutral and it stalled completly 2x in 40 mins. I have to wait till tomorrow to call the dealer any ideas>?? (by the way they said they don't paint the rusted rotors under warranty)

i just got home from picking up my car at the dealer..got an oil change, white oil dipstick repair, inspection, new front brake pads, and the latest flash. The car definitely runs more smoothly, but when i go to neutral (stoplight) the rpms drop to 500 and the car stutters, then jumps to 1200 and back down to 800 (my norm before the flash). This happens EVERY time I go to neutral and it stalled completly 2x in 40 mins. I have to wait till tomorrow to call the dealer any ideas>?? (by the way they said they don't paint the rusted rotors under warranty)
For what it's worth, I had the flash done last week and now the cyclical engine vibration at idle seems to be more noticable. But the engine rpm is not surging like you report.

Sounds like they didn't install the dip stick fix correctly and/or they forgot to reconnect a vacuum line. Take it back.

go48 - thank you for the help, the issue actually dissapeared day 2 before I called the dealer. I read somewhere on here that it takes 10 drive cycles for the car to get "adjusted" to the new configuration but it's smooth as butter now....:)

I read somewhere on here that it takes 10 drive cycles for the car to get "adjusted" to the new configuration but it's smooth as butter now....:)
Guess I need to drive my RX-8 more.:) Ten drive cycles could take me weeks at the rate I drive this car.

well i got my car back today -- i couldn't believe it ... they said they'd have it done today or tomorrow at the latest, and it was actually done today!! for those wondering, the *bill* for a new engine was over 4 grand. labor, which is included in that number, was less than 1000, which surprised me ... but what do i care, i didn't pay :lol:

one question i forgot to ask ... i assume i should abide by the break-in principle, right? i think as new it was under 6k rpms for 500 miles, but i may have pulled that out of thin air. anyone remember what that is?

included in the re-man was new sparks and coils, so i'm thrilled. car really seemed to pull nicely, but i did try to keep the revs down on the way home, even though i was smiling ear-to-ear again (it had been 2 long weeks without it).

the only noticeable thing that i need to keep an eye on is the idle. not so much the idle, but the 2 or 300 rpms above idle. idling at a light, the car was fine, right about 750 rpms. when i would push on the throttle gently, the whole car seems to sort of rock, just a little bit, like something is unbalanced. anyone have an idea of what that could be? it kinda felt like the rumble of a v8 -- i liked it, i just don't want it to be a potential problem...

it feels weird, to have a 4+ yr old car with a new engine ... i feel like i'm starting from scratch, like i have to watch out for all the "original" problems (recalls, tsb's, etc.) but it sure felt good on the drive home. maybe i'll try pre-mixing with this engine :Eyecrazy:

Congrats. I'm glad that it worked out for you.

thanks haze! fingers crossed this one holds up for many years to come...

does anyone know about the re-mans? swoope? i mean, if it seems that the majority of engine replacements are 04's (autos i think, but still more '04 manuals than other years), does the re-man engine address the differences between the '04 and other model years, thus "curing" the engine failuer problem? my analogy before was the taillight condensation -- i got new tails, and the replacements were "corrected", so it's not a problem now -- does anyone know/think that will be the case with the re-man?

also, still curious if anyone remembers/knows the break-in period for the new motor.

when i would push on the throttle gently, the whole car seems to sort of rock, just a little bit, like something is unbalanced. anyone have an idea of what that could be? it kinda felt like the rumble of a v8 -- i liked it, i just don't want it to be a potential problem...
Perhaps the motor mounts are shot (not uncommon) and they didn't replace them when they installed the reman?

You should follow break in again, as the reman is clean and "new" as far as engine lubes/fluids are concerned. 600 miles per the manual, iirc. But other sources claim 1k, and at least one that says 2k.

As far as the "Is it cured" question: we'd all love to know. ;)

This most recent flash increases the amount of oil injected, and 2 new "power-loss" TSBs lead me to believe the problem is not cured. But obviously Mazda is still working on it, and hopefully the MOP increases will be an effective fix. Personally, I've started premixing.

Perhaps the motor mounts are shot (not uncommon) and they didn't replace them when they installed the reman?

that my first thought too. i'll check them when i get home -- i left town today on business. it's 100% normal once i've over 1000 rpms, if that means anything. i want to say new motor mounts is on the receipt, but i can't confirm until saturday.

You should follow break in again, as the reman is clean and "new" as far as engine lubes/fluids are concerned. 600 miles per the manual, iirc. But other sources claim 1k, and at least one that says 2k.

that was my thought too - i got a chance to call the dealer today and he said just the opposite, that it was ready to run now. i think i'll still baby it for a while just to be safe, but 500, 1000, and especially 2000 miles is a LONG time to wait!!

As far as the "Is it cured" question: we'd all love to know. ;)

This most recent flash increases the amount of oil injected, and 2 new "power-loss" TSBs lead me to believe the problem is not cured. But obviously Mazda is still working on it, and hopefully the MOP increases will be an effective fix. Personally, I've started premixing.

i hear ya. i think my main thought is that if the majority of the problems are with '04s, what's different with the later models that they don't seem to need engine replacements as much? and if there is a difference, is that part of the reman? maybe it's just a timing thing, and in subsequent years we'll start to see the 05s, 06s, and 07s also needing new engines...

so far so good. i have 25k miles on the reman. all is well. i do still premix.

as to the motor changes there are none. what has changed is the amount of oil added in each new flash..

i am not on the latest one yet.

beers :beer:


does anyone know about the re-mans? swoope? i mean, if it seems that the majority of engine replacements are 04's (autos i think, but still more '04 manuals than other years), does the re-man engine address the differences between the '04 and other model years, thus "curing" the engine failuer problem? my analogy before was the taillight condensation -- i got new tails, and the replacements were "corrected", so it's not a problem now -- does anyone know/think that will be the case with the re-man?

also, still curious if anyone remembers/knows the break-in period for the new motor.

Hey swoope - did you abide by the break-in principle with your re-man? serv manager told me i don't have to, but someone on the board says yes. if so, for how many miles?

as to the motor changes there are none. what has changed is the amount of oil added in each new flash..

i am not on the latest one yet.


so do we just not know why the 04's seem to worse than later model years? Or is that more of a "myth"? maybe the later years got the flashes before sale, thus preventing damage to the engine?? sorry for beating a dead horse, i'm just curious why the 04s are (or seem to be) failing more so than other years.

Mazda came out with a lot of reflashes in '04 and '05 trying to patch things up a little at a time. The '04 autos also only had 1 oil cooler which made them prone to excessive heat build up. The recall in the summer of '06 was the last major thing to happen and included heat shielding above the trans tunnel.

Same engine. Better factory tune.

Mazda came out with a lot of reflashes in '04 and '05 trying to patch things up a little at a time. The '04 autos also only had 1 oil cooler which made them prone to excessive heat build up. The recall in the summer of '06 was the last major thing to happen and included heat shielding above the trans tunnel.

Same engine. Better factory tune.

that's what i was thinking, but you explained it better! didn't know about that 04 auto's 1 oil cooler either (i have a mt).

New TSB/Recall on oil cooler lines.
after the latest re-flash I was informed of a new recall on my oil cooler lines.
Toronto, apparently the front mud guards can trap and throw debris onto the cooler lines and make them more succeptible(?) to corrosion.
So I'll be getting new oil cooling lines and new front mud guards! Free!!
this works for me cause I do have a scratch/gouge on the front passenger
guard.....nice

bummer, my cel came on today on the way home from work. almost immediately at start-up. looks like i'll try to swing by the dealer this week/weekend. car felt/sounded fine, so hopefully just a little tweak is in order or something.