That's with methanol right? Good stuff.

That's correct, meth always on except a few miles before arriving at destination to flush the intake from its corrosive properties. I'm running a 100 ml nozzle right after the TB. :eyetwitch

Juan, could you do some tests to see which nozzle placement give the best intake temp?

That's correct, meth always on except a few miles before arriving at destination to flush the intake from its corrosive properties. I'm running a 100 ml nozzle right after the TB. :eyetwitch

That bodes well for BHR's stuff.;)

Juan, could you do some tests to see which nozzle placement give the best intake temp?

Can't do Adam. My air intake temp sensor sits just before my secondary nozzle (currently not in use). Therefore, if I hook it, it will not register the intake temp.

Just to let you know on yesterdays evening WOT run the ambient temp was 69 degrees and the air intake temp was 107 degrees right after the run. :eyetwitch

Here are all the EFI Dude readings in one thread for your amusement. :eyetwitch

Juan was that with both nozzles going?
What are your w/m settings on the controller box. maf 3 to initiate?
I am actually things of using the vdi activation trigger the pcm has to trigger the w/m at 100%--but I am not sure yet. Advice?
Great info man---thanks
OD

Here is a picture of my current setting. Basically it initiates at 3 and goes full power right after that due to a small (100 ml) nozzle.

Also, notice my washer fluid level after 200 hundred miles (about 150 highway and 50 city/WOT). I think that the washer fluid bottle is enough if you are planning on using the 100 ml nozzle. :eyetwitch

Here is a picture of my current setting. Basically it initiates at 3 and goes full power right after that due to a small (100 ml) nozzle.

Also, notice my washer fluid level after 200 hundred miles (about 150 highway and 50 city/WOT). I think that the washer fluid bottle is enough if you are planning on using the 100 ml nozzle. :eyetwitch

Is that the OEM washer bottle, or did you purchase that from snow??

Is that the OEM washer bottle, or did you purchase that from snow??

OEM :eyetwitch

Can't do Adam. My air intake temp sensor sits just before my secondary nozzle (currently not in use). Therefore, if I hook it, it will not register the intake temp.

Just to let you know on yesterdays evening WOT run the ambient temp was 69 degrees and the air intake temp was 107 degrees right after the run. :eyetwitch

Okay...:banghead: Have you done any tests to see the difference in temps w/ the nozzle after the MAF turned on and off??

Ugly air box base (waffle pattern) eliminator. For those of you that would like to eliminate the dirt catch waffle pattern air box base. Not shown is aluminum heat shield material that I contact cemented to the back of the shield to keep some of the radiator heat away from the air filter/intake. Ram air flows directly in front of the air filter when at speed. Enjoy :eyetwitch

Okay...:banghead: Have you done any tests to see the difference in temps w/ the nozzle after the MAF turned on and off??

Will do this evening with pixs just for you. :eyetwitch

Will do this evening with pixs just for you. :eyetwitch

You da man.

Can't do Adam. My air intake temp sensor sits just before my secondary nozzle (currently not in use). Therefore, if I hook it, it will not register the intake temp.

Just to let you know on yesterdays evening WOT run the ambient temp was 69 degrees and the air intake temp was 107 degrees right after the run. :eyetwitch

Regarding IAT, I just pulled the IAT in the UIM and tested the resistance against the stock one with both sitting at room temp. They may have been okay for the Int-X, but its not compatible with the stock PCM and your IAT readings as read from OBD2 will be off. It looks like the one Pettit's used is a generic MSD IAT, but it unfortunately doesn't have a NTC thermistor temp curve that is identical to stock. In my experience, it looks like its about 10-15 degF off ambient at startup, it could be more or less as the temp goes up from there. The characteristic curves of thermistors are not at all linear.

I'm planning on transplanting the thermistor from the MAF into the MSD IAT, but I believe BHR may have a better solution in the works.

Regarding IAT, I just pulled the IAT in the UIM and tested the resistance against the stock one with both sitting at room temp. They may have been okay for the Int-X, but its not compatible with the stock PCM and your IAT readings as read from OBD2 will be off. It looks like the one Pettit's used is a generic MSD IAT, but it unfortunately doesn't have a NTC thermistor temp curve that is identical to stock. In my experience, it looks like its about 10-15 degF off ambient at startup, it could be more or less as the temp goes up from there. The characteristic curves of thermistors are not at all linear.

I'm planning on transplanting the thermistor from the MAF into the MSD IAT, but I believe BHR may have a better solution in the works.

I'm not using the Pettit IAT sender that came with the kit. I'm using the one that came with the Cyberdyne RED Ambient Air Temperature Part # A024E061Y-Black Bezel. I just went outside to compare the AMB temp (85 degrees) and the Cyberdyde IAT (81 degrees) after letting the car idle for one minute. BTW the car was started with a cold engine. Basically there is a 4 degree difference between the two of them. :eyetwitch

Regarding IAT, I just pulled the IAT in the UIM and tested the resistance against the stock one with both sitting at room temp. They may have been okay for the Int-X, but its not compatible with the stock PCM and your IAT readings as read from OBD2 will be off. It looks like the one Pettit's used is a generic MSD IAT, but it unfortunately doesn't have a NTC thermistor temp curve that is identical to stock. In my experience, it looks like its about 10-15 degF off ambient at startup, it could be more or less as the temp goes up from there. The characteristic curves of thermistors are not at all linear.

I'm planning on transplanting the thermistor from the MAF into the MSD IAT, but I believe BHR may have a better solution in the works.

If you want to work out the curve, I can rescale it in the AP.

Here are all the EFI Dude readings in one thread for your amusement. :eyetwitch

hey Juan...looks like youre building LTFTs...

hey Juan...looks like youre building LTFTs...

Roger that because I haven't reset the room fuse since I left Pettit about 200+ miles ago. Just wanted to verify if and how much LTFT my car is building. :eyetwitch

You da man.

Here you go:

Ambient temp 76 degrees and IAT 115 degrees after WOT from 1st to 4th gear meth on.

Cruised for a couple of minutes to bring all temps back to stabilize temperatures.

Ambient temp 76 degrees and IAT 127 degrees after WOT from 1st to 4th gear meth off.

See pixs. :eyetwitch

Very nice. Have you tried a larger nozzle in the same location to see if there is a difference??

WIth just a 100 nozzle! Pre blower! Great work Juan---you da man.
Your intake fab looks smooth too--really good job. i did something similar but mine is with a different material. heat shielding aluminum stuff. then I have the Mazsport coils on top of that. Turned out nice.
Our ww tank---is it a 2 quart? If that is all you have used then maybe i dont need the 7 quart ? Typically its about 30 miles of haul ass.
The more i read and learn about the water meth the more I like it for our car. Rich a/f seems to be a little overrated?
I have torn down my other engine and I sure have learned a lot. Not good i am afraid. But i dont want to take away from what you are doing here---keep going man--really--really good.
I little hint--take washer off the leading plug and go barless.
olddragger

What's really neat is that if you are using water injection strictly for detonation-avoidance, then you need no alky to do the job and you need no huge nozzles, either. On the other hand, using a slightly richer A/F than MBT will remove the need for having to re-fill a washer jug all the time. The reason alcohol started to be used was to try and restore a bit of the power lost by using water rather than the proper fuel for a given situation.

Very nice. Have you tried a larger nozzle in the same location to see if there is a difference??

Nope and I'm not going to bother because the dyno showed that the whp went down more so with the larger nozzle than with the smaller nozzle. :eyetwitch

What's really neat is that if you are using water injection strictly for detonation-avoidance, then you need no alky to do the job and you need no huge nozzles, either. On the other hand, using a slightly richer A/F than MBT will remove the need for having to re-fill a washer jug all the time. The reason alcohol started to be used was to try and restore a bit of the power lost by using water rather than the proper fuel for a given situation.

Exactly. That is why I let the car built LTFT and ran the crap out of it this evening with no meth and no detonation heard/noticed. The meth will become useful/necessary once we create a more aggressive flash for the car which I’ll be able to switch back and forth depending if I'm just cruising or at an AutoX event. :eyetwitch

....and with upcoming toys, we'll go even further than that!

Also nothing like constant steam cleaning. See my entry into my carbon lock thread.
OD

....and with upcoming toys, we'll go even further than that!

Must have toys...aaaahhhhhhhhh!!!

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?p=2380478#post2380478

this should get intresting

Well I decided to jump on the Cobb AP flash to see if it improved my tune. If this is the same type of improvement that you m/t owners with the Pettit flash have then you will know that when I speak of the completely new and exciting car. When the Pettit s/c was first install I was (and still am) enthralled at the added performance but kinda missed the smooth stock feel. I figured it was gone forever and just a casualty of FI. There are still a few small bugs to be sorted out (lack of power from 2000 to 3000 rpm) but the whole stock smoothness is there again with the added punch of the supercharger. My a/t shifts like stock and actually loves shifting at 8500 rpm, that pesky cel is gone and my idle is now dependable and steady.

MazdaManiac spent two three hour sessions installing the system, finding the best tune and doing his best to explain what was happening and why. He did the install because this was a first, a four port a/t with a supercharger. Since the purchase of my Pettit supercharger, this was the best mod that I have purchased.

Additional power, well it feels a little faster from 3000 up but Jeff was interested in the best tune all thru the complete range before looking for more power. He was impressed and commented "this car will be a real screamer".

Good to hear Phil---keep us atuned:) to how it works out long term. Do you have to watch your trims?
olddragger

Do you have to watch your trims?
olddragger

No. The trims are handled by my MAF scaling.
Once the correct AccessPORT calibration from my library is in place, you are done. There is nothing to monitor.

Nice!

I will be taking my car out on the track hopefullu in middle of May. Has any one with the Pettit kit done this---not autocross--but a track event 20-30 minutes of duration? Any hints or special things to do?
OD

The only thing I would suggest is methanol injection to help with the heat, but I'm sure you already thought of that. I've only done autocross and drag, still too much of a n00b to do any real racing :)

Yep will have that spraying.
I wonder if the sensor that comes with the kit in the upper intake manifold can be wired to the ambient temp gauge in the oem led screen? Wouldnt that be a cool place to monitor the intake temps?
olddragger

GL old dragger...let me know how you do on the track...

btw...the shinks adopted a big brutha

CLICK HERE (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=142321)

man those drug reps sure are donating a lot of things now a days!----JK SHinka!
Really nice
OD

thx OD....

i wish i had 10% of pharma $...i could retire with a bugati veyron ....unfortunately these days the public thinks we get paid by them...little do they know
:lol2:

Let's wait until my next east coast trip to get into politics and the media.:lol2:

Pat, will you please say "Hi" to Mrs. Legend and let her know about your FJ. She wants one so I gotta sell a lot of P2/BHR services and goodies so I can buy her one........as an engagement gift.;)

hi Mrs Legend....
i love my FJ....im already prepping for my first mud fling in the blue ridge mts memorial day weekend....

you must get the TT edition...thats the white with everything... :D:

I meant via PM.:)

I meant via PM.:)

:rollingla


<end hijack>

I am going to go through this thread and count just how many hi-jacks have taken place.......:lol2:

interesting idea----poll

What maf pipe is all Pettit owners running and do they have screens or not?
olddragger

i am running with the OEM tube con screen....no LTFTs yet...i do have the new pettit maf...but im gonna stick with the current config and watch the LTFTs...:D:

what does a screen have to do with total air flow---is it THAT restrictive?
I ran the oem one for a little while --pulled my plugs and made a quick decision to put the pettit one on--my wideband broke and i currently do not have a way on monitoring.
OD

I am running the newest Pettit MAF pipe. My LTFTs are 0.

what does a screen have to do with total air flow---is it THAT restrictive?
I ran the oem one for a little while --pulled my plugs and made a quick decision to put the pettit one on--my wideband broke and i currently do not have a way on monitoring.
OD

do u have an efi dude?

not yet---they were out.
OD

Does anyone tighen their belt for track use?
OD

FYI

I registered for an upcoming Autocross event at the Gainesville Raceway weather permitting. I heard on last month AutoX event that it is fairly easy to attain just over 100 mph on this track. I will EFI Dude log my runs for later posting or email the whole log if interested. :eyetwitch

http://www.myautoevents.com/pls/mae/frmEventDetail.Show?psevent_id=8744

http://www.gainesvilleraceway.com/apcm/templates/trackinfo.asp?articleid=1912&zoneid=69

that would be interesting
olddragger

I personally find it hard to believe, but I won this thing! It "theoretically" will be delivered to our local Mazda dealership early next week. I say theoretically because I was notified in December! Have you seen it in person? Its an auto, but its supercharged. What can I expect.? I'm an old piston head(and I do mean old), and a rotary will be a new experience.

I know what you mean-----oldragger

I personally find it hard to believe, but I won this thing! It "theoretically" will be delivered to our local Mazda dealership early next week. I say theoretically because I was notified in December! Have you seen it in person? Its an auto, but its supercharged. What can I expect.? I'm an old piston head(and I do mean old), and a rotary will be a new experience.

I saw your car very recently... it's a 6 speed AT, and it's supercharged, which means you'll have a lot of fun with it. First thing I'd do is sell the sound system in that thing and use the proceeds to buy myself a small country. :)

In spite of it's show-car qualities, it runs great, it turns heads, and it hauls ass, so you'll definitely enjoy the hell out of it. Hopefully they gave you a break on the value of the car, because taxes on 72k really sucks. Enjoy it man, and congratulations on becoming a Pettit Supercharger owner.

Well I decided to jump on the Cobb AP flash to see if it improved my tune. If this is the same type of improvement that you m/t owners with the Pettit flash have then you will know that when I speak of the completely new and exciting car. When the Pettit s/c was first install I was (and still am) enthralled at the added performance but kinda missed the smooth stock feel. I figured it was gone forever and just a casualty of FI. There are still a few small bugs to be sorted out (lack of power from 2000 to 3000 rpm) but the whole stock smoothness is there again with the added punch of the supercharger. My a/t shifts like stock and actually loves shifting at 8500 rpm, that pesky cel is gone and my idle is now dependable and steady.

MazdaManiac spent two three hour sessions installing the system, finding the best tune and doing his best to explain what was happening and why. He did the install because this was a first, a four port a/t with a supercharger. Since the purchase of my Pettit supercharger, this was the best mod that I have purchased.

Additional power, well it feels a little faster from 3000 up but Jeff was interested in the best tune all thru the complete range before looking for more power. He was impressed and commented "this car will be a real screamer".

Have you tracked it yet? How fast is your A/t, i.e. faster than a 350Z or what? I am using your buildup as a blueprint - I plan to go the F/I route in my 4 port in about a year.

Have you tracked it yet? How fast is your A/t, i.e. faster than a 350Z or what? I am using your buildup as a blueprint - I plan to go the F/I route in my 4 port in about a year.
No I don't competitively race on a track but I do put in track time. It is a lot faster than a stock 350Z but have not gone up against any FI versions of the 350. My track laps make the 350Z look sick.

congrats Blynch!, now that's what I call a win!

DEI Chill Charge

Well people another researcher and findings from yours truly.

I read about this product DEI Chill Charge and ordered a bottle from BHR since no local auto parts store carries it even though the DEI website states that it is available at Advance Auto and Pep Boys. I tried both and all I got was a blank stare from the parts department people. Anyway here is what DEI claim.

“Chill Charger™ for water-to-air intercoolers maximizes thermal transfer to lower air intake temperatures while also protecting core corrosion, electrolysis and harmful mineral build up. By effectively transferring water that circulates through the intercooler Chill Charger™ reduces liquid heat soak in high performance turbo and supercharger systems.”

I could not find any information about the chemical properties in the DEI website or the bottle itself.

So here are the air intake temperature AIT results of various runs from 1st to 3rd gear (0 to 100 mph) WOT and 80 degrees ambient temperature.

1st pass…meth off, no chill charge added. AIT 130 degrees
2nd pass…meth on, no chill charge added. AIT 126 degrees
3rd pass…meth off, chill charge added. AIT 125 degrees
4th pass…meth on, chill charge added. AIT 119 degrees

I also notice that the AIT dropped dramatically after the 3rd and 4th pass.

Bottom line…the stuff really works plus got rid off the foaming (bubbles) inside the reservoir.

Get with Ray at BHR and buy yourself a bottle or two before DEI decides to take it out of the market.

I figure that I will be able to attain even lower AITs once I receive my (on back order forever) BHR Inter Cooler Heat Exchange radiator. :eyetwitch

I figure that I will be able to attain even lower AITs once I receive my (on back order forever) BHR Inter Cooler Heat Exchange radiator. :eyetwitch

Juan, this statement implies that my exchanger is finished and slow to get to production. This is not the case. I made the first one, which is currently on Phil's car, a little too large to fit quite as nice as I wanted. The second version, which will also be test-fitted on Phil's car soon, should fit as I want and as soon as I verify that I will build as many as 10-15 units. This will all happen in the next three weeks.

In reality, you have always been a strong supporter, and friend, to BHR and have wanted one of my I/Cs since you first heard about it.:)

BTW, Phil likes what he has seen from my I/C and I am certain everyone else who gets one will, too.;)

how often do you have to use stuff like the chill charge etc?

Do you just add it once and its done for the year?

Or is it a once a week type thing?

how often do you have to use stuff like the chill charge etc?

Do you just add it once and its done for the year?

Or is it a once a week type thing?

From the back of the bottle:

"DIRECTIONS FOR USE: Simply add one bottle of Chill Charge to intercooler reservoir then fill with water. When adding to a full reservoir, add bottle and run cycle pump for several minutes to mix completaly."

Basically drain about half of your reservoir water content, add chill bottle content, run intercooler pump and finally add water to top it off. I personally use distilled water (no minerals). :eyetwitch

Juan, this statement implies that my exchanger is finished and slow to get to production. This is not the case. I made the first one, which is currently on Phil's car, a little too large to fit quite as nice as I wanted. The second version, which will also be test-fitted on Phil's car soon, should fit as I want and as soon as I verify that I will build as many as 10-15 units. This will all happen in the next three weeks.

In reality, you have always been a strong supporter, and friend, to BHR and have wanted one of my I/Cs since you first heard about it.:)

BTW, Phil likes what he has seen from my I/C and I am certain everyone else who gets one will, too.;)


Meh, Phil doesn't need one (just kidding).

Just like meth, I must have it. Well, my car does at least…BTW same goes with the pulley kit. Therefore, pass the word to the BHR parts department folks that I need the stuff pronto. Summer is rapidly approaching here in Florida plus my VA shrink doctor recommended more refinements to my SC in order to take care of the :eyetwitch :eyetwitch :eyetwitch

Masred: Any opinion on whether Chill Charger is a step up over Water Wetter? Thanks for the info on temps with the Chill Charger added.

Masred: Any opinion on whether Chill Charger is a step up over Water Wetter? Thanks for the info on temps with the Chill Charger added.

As a matter fact that is exactly what I was running in my IC. The Chill Charger looks different, smells different, taste different…err I take that last one back but I did noticed that the consistency of the product is a bit different than the Water Wetter. Regardless, the stuff really works and is not that expensive. :eyetwitch

On another subject. I installed NGKs 10.5 on the leading side and relocated the NGKs 11.5 I was running in the leading side to the trailing side both gapped at 28. Also, I changed my Magnecor 8.5mm wires to MSD 8.5mm Super Conductor (you have to fab your own). I measured the resistance of the Magnecor (only 5k on them) to the MSD and the difference was astronomical. I had to change the scale (down) of my multimeter in order to get a reading of the MSDs after checking the resistance of my old Magnecor. The car feels way more responsive but no dyno to confirm/compare data. :eyetwitch

Man, I wish I had a dyno in my garage. :banghead:

Meh, Phil doesn't need one (just kidding).

Just like meth, I must have it. Well, my car does at least…BTW same goes with the pulley kit. Therefore, pass the word to the BHR parts department folks that I need the stuff pronto. Summer is rapidly approaching here in Florida plus my VA shrink doctor recommended more refinements to my SC in order to take care of the :eyetwitch :eyetwitch :eyetwitch
Phil first - :rant: :) Phil needs all refinements :) If it works then everybody else can get them. My shrink is half a bubble off as he recommends that I buy one of BHR's clutches:lol2:

Hi Juan,

What I meant about the Charge Chill stuff was how often do you have to top it up, not how you add it.

Ie do you have to refill the IC water tank with a new charge chill bottle weekly / monthly / yearly?

I don't think this stuff evaporates. Not easily, anyway.:dunno:

Hi Juan,

What I meant about the Charge Chill stuff was how often do you have to top it up, not how you add it.

Ie do you have to refill the IC water tank with a new charge chill bottle weekly / monthly / yearly?

Robbie,

As far as I know is add and enjoy. I'm heading to Gainesville Sunday (3 hour drive each way) plus track time while there. I will let you know if I notice any changes (i.e. evaporation, discoloration, etc) Monday morning. :eyetwitch

cool. Have a fun AutoX.

Im off for another airfield muck about on the 21st April, with a couple of RX8s and some MX5s. Should be fun!

On another subject. I installed NGKs 10.5 on the leading side and relocated the NGKs 11.5 I was running in the leading side to the trailing side both gapped at 28. Also, I changed my Magnecor 8.5mm wires to MSD 8.5mm Super Conductor (you have to fab your own). I measured the resistance of the Magnecor (only 5k on them) to the MSD and the difference was astronomical. I had to change the scale (down) of my multimeter in order to get a reading of the MSDs after checking the resistance of my old Magnecor. The car feels way more responsive but no dyno to confirm/compare data. :eyetwitch

Man, I wish I had a dyno in my garage. :banghead:

Juan, you said before you had to play with the magnecors to get them to fit. Do the MSDs mate right up, or do you have to adjust them as well?

Juan, you said before you had to play with the magnecors to get them to fit. Do the MSDs mate right up, or do you have to adjust them as well?

I used a MSD universal wire set that I had and yes you do have to adjust the coil ends. Not a big deal unless you want to spend over $120 for a new MSD wire set that fit LS2 coils. :eyetwitch

I personally find it hard to believe, but I won this thing! It "theoretically" will be delivered to our local Mazda dealership early next week. I say theoretically because I was notified in December! Have you seen it in person? Its an auto, but its supercharged. What can I expect.? I'm an old piston head(and I do mean old), and a rotary will be a new experience.
Ive driven it and I have to say your not going to be dissapointed at all. Loose the wing, loose the stereo cause between the 2 it makes the back very slide happy and makes it feel way loose.

Juan ---"The Man"
few questions on all this good info
1- with the ls 1 coils -pushing a little through the resistance on the wires shouldnt make that much difference? Why are the plugs gaped so close? Shouldnt have to worry about blowout with those coils?
2- where are you measuring the iat's from---probably the upper intake manifold?
3- Chill Charger--same as redline water wetter?

i wonder if your VA shrink knows mine?:)
olddragger

Juan ---"The Man" Not even close :wink2:
few questions on all this good info
1- with the ls 1 coils -pushing a little through the resistance on the wires shouldnt make that much difference? Why are the plugs gaped so close? Shouldnt have to worry about blowout with those coils?

The new NGKs came OEM gapped at 28. Therefore I left them like that and gapped the NGKs 11.5 the same way. Any suggestions are more than welcome.

2- where are you measuring the iat's from---probably the upper intake manifold?

My AIT sensor is located right before the lower intake manifold. Drilled/Tapped a hole 45 degrees from the original Pettit AIT sensor.

3- Chill Charger--same as redline water wetter?

Don't think so. Most have intergalactic Yu-Yu juice* in it cuz the chemical composition is not listed on DEI's website or even on the bottle.

* Not approved to be sold in the USA.

i wonder if your VA shrink knows mine?:)

Negative, it is the same guy. We sometime chat about your problems. Very interesting stuff I must say.
:eyetwitch

DEI Chill Charge

No foam, No bubbles.

Watch the video link. :eyetwitch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYATYXeuC8c

Nice man---will have to look out for some chill charger ---i think i have seen it up this way.

I always thought the wider the plug gap you could get away with the better? But, then again my errrr---our shrink probably is the one that told me that. By the way which of my personalities does he like the best? I bet it's Roscoe, everyone likes Roscoe. dang him anyway.

nice place to take the iat's---i wonder what is the "danger " zone?
cant wait to see the data log from the runs.
OD

Nice man---will have to look out for some chill charger ---i think i have seen it up this way.

You might want to check with Ray. Took only two days to arrive after I placed my order and great price too. Also, if you do so, make sure to have your name added to the BHR frequent buyer program or BHR-FBP. :eyetwitch

Hilarious, Juan!:lol2:

The DEI stuff is only a few bucks a bottle so I try and bundle it up with other products, like spark plugs, etc., so the $8 shipping charge doesn't kill me.

On another subject. I installed NGKs 10.5 on the leading side and relocated the NGKs 11.5 I was running in the leading side to the trailing side both gapped at 28. Also, I changed my Magnecor 8.5mm wires to MSD 8.5mm Super Conductor (you have to fab your own). I measured the resistance of the Magnecor (only 5k on them) to the MSD and the difference was astronomical. I had to change the scale (down) of my multimeter in order to get a reading of the MSDs after checking the resistance of my old Magnecor. The car feels way more responsive but no dyno to confirm/compare data. :eyetwitch

Man, I wish I had a dyno in my garage. :banghead:

Plugs worked fine during my Sunday trip to Gainesville, FL but I'm going to increase the gap to 40 since .04 is the gap recommended for the GM LS2 engine.

Any suggestions? :eyetwitch

I would go to 35 to start and make sure you keep a washer on it.
Clean the hell out of the sparkplug holes especially the gap (non threated) between the plug tip and the combustion chamber. Also I was surprised how much anti seze build up--even though I was calling myself cleaning it off whenever I changed the plugs.
How did the data collect go?
I have my intake temp gauge in now and on the way to work this morning(42F ambient) approx 8 miles of city driving --top speed 6omph---intake temp was 60F!!! Got up to 72F climbing the parking lot decks!
Olddragger

I have my intake temp gauge in now and on the way to work this morning(42F ambient) approx 8 miles of city driving --top speed 6omph---intake temp was 60F!!! Got up to 72F climbing the parking lot decks!
Olddragger

I consistantly see about 30degF above ambient on the highway. Stop and go it climbs to about 40degF above ambient. This is measured by the ECU over OBD2 with the stock IAT thermistor bulb transplanted to the upper intake manifold.

I've been told by more than one person that knows better than I that anything above 120degF is danger zone.

I would go to 35 to start and make sure you keep a washer on it.
Clean the hell out of the sparkplug holes especially the gap (non threated) between the plug tip and the combustion chamber. Also I was surprised how much anti seze build up--even though I was calling myself cleaning it off whenever I changed the plugs.
How did the data collect go?
I have my intake temp gauge in now and on the way to work this morning(42F ambient) approx 8 miles of city driving --top speed 6omph---intake temp was 60F!!! Got up to 72F climbing the parking lot decks!
Olddragger

Thanks for the tips. :kiss:

I'm actually using old plug washers (one per plug).

AIT looks about average 20~30 degress above ambient temps. Now add a chill bottle and you will see them drop a bit more. Yesterday driving to Gainesville, average highway speed 80 mph, ambient at 60 and AIT at 80 degrees. :eyetwitch

i got chill in it. i also have the rb scoop suppling. looking good to me.
I wonder how the tune is taking into consideration the differences? With a pull through system it seems there would be more of a difference between what the maf is telling the pcm and what is getting to the engine. Wonder how they scaled that.
All that stuff confuses me.
OD

i got chill in it.

How do you like it? Any comments on the chill stuff?

better than redline for sure---like it ---may try the radiator version next.
OD

better than redline for sure---like it ---may try the radiator version next.
OD

Nice! :)

I was thinking doing the same but I'll wait for your try and feedback. :eyetwitch

1st water meth going on this w/e and helping Silvereight put some gauges in.
I also really have my eye on a trans brace like you have.
Ray will be testing his intercooler at Roebling with me next month --stay tuned.
OD

Has anyone heard of or seen any work done by JHB racing?
od

The place in Canada? You might be thinking of JHB Performance and I have tried, repeatedly, to get back in contact with Marc but he hasn't returned my inquiries.

Well, looks like were going to start working on my 8 next week. I dont now how long its going to take but as long as its done rite, who cares.

well at least you know yours will be done right lol

1st water meth going on this w/e and helping Silvereight put some gauges in.
I also really have my eye on a trans brace like you have.
Ray will be testing his intercooler at Roebling with me next month --stay tuned.
OD

Hey Denny: since your bad experience with your LC1 wideband, I dumped mine on eBay, but I'm reconsidering installing one. What would you pick now? Even with the EFI Dude, I'd like to have realtime AFRs just for grins.

Might you guys consider this?;

http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=67

I am outfitting Phil with a few AEM gauges soon.

Some of my friends have those they are bad ass! They all have been working great.

I used to push the DynoTune gauges but Phil and I recently decided to try something else for him and I got him the 30-4100 A/F, the 30-4406 boost gauge, and a 30-4402 temp gauge for his transmission fluid.

What I am leaning toward at present is the Zeitronic brand. Heard good things and not as fragile as the innovate. Currently innovate has my gauge under the warrenty --have to go through the progess before i can request a refund. i will try it once more, but have little faith. Look on the Innovate forum under the lambda cable section for more feedback.
You go Moon--hope you are doing some internal work/mods on your engine?
olddragger

Ray you are correct it is JHB performance not racing.
OD

I was trying to get back in contact with Marc Couture from JHB to see about including their OMP mod as part of my stainless tank kit, especially for the front-mount turbo guys. I don't know why he hasn't returned my mails but I suppose I'll try again and see if he wants to sell 50 units or not.......:dunno:

Might you guys consider this?;

http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=67

I am outfitting Phil with a few AEM gauges soon.

hey Ray....are the AEMs more reliable than the autometer?

Though I use the Innovate LC-1, the PLX (http://www.plxdevices.com/products/dm200/smafrcombo/)is the best integrated WBO2S/gauge system.

hey Ray....are the AEMs more reliable than the autometer?

I haven't set them side by side with a baseline unit so I don't know. I guess maybe a magazine has done a comparison article or, maybe if Jeff and I have some spare time during one of my trips west, we could do our own comparison.

My Autometer is almost dead on with my stock Wideband.

Just be sure to set the Stoich to the right number.

My Autometer is almost dead on with my stock Wideband.

My view on that comparison is that the Autometer must be pretty accurate then ;)

Just be sure to set the Stoich to the right number.

Just use Lambda FFS!!!

Cheers,
Hymee.

You can Hymee - but the setting on the gauge itself allow you to change your lambda (for alternate fuels); if you mess with it (like I did) it will give you some messed up values.

OK, I misunderstood - The Autometer is not Lambda? FFS. You really are changing the stoich value for the various fuels, not the lambda. Lambda is independant of fuel, as you know. 1.0 is stoich for everyfuel, from gasoline to methanol to nitromethane to diesel.

Lambda, Lambda, Lambda.....:wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :ylsuper: :ylsuper:

Cheers,
Hymee.

Really, the question isn't about "accuracy" but driver methods.
All of the top gauges appear to be pretty accurate.
However, it is important to take into consideration the controller circuitry employed.
One of the bad things about the Innovate stuff is their "switching" controller, which eventually leads to sensor failures.
I'm not up to speed on the other options, so caveat emptor.

Lambda, Lambda, Lambda.....



Absolutely correct. We should all be chastised for using AFR because it is really not a good way to do things.
Even gasoline will change AFRs at the same lambda as a result of different localities and formulations.

just when i think i am starting to learn some things yall go and change it!
Damn
Olddragger

just when i think i am starting to learn some things yall go and change it!


lol. Sorry.

OK, I misunderstood - The Autometer is not Lambda? FFS. You really are changing the stoich value for the various fuels, not the lambda. Lambda is independant of fuel, as you know. 1.0 is stoich for everyfuel, from gasoline to methanol to nitromethane to diesel.

Lambda, Lambda, Lambda.....:wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :ylsuper: :ylsuper:

Cheers,
Hymee.

Ok you got me. But you STILL have to set Stoich or Lambda of 1 on the gauge face if you want to change fuels. And while messing with your scale and other options on the Autometer it is still possible to mess with that setting. It comes preset for gasoline from the factory.

This is your plug.

This is your plug on meth.

Any questions?

My car is hooked on meth and BHR is my supplier. :eyetwitch

I also hope to break you of your addiction, Juan, with my next offering.;)

Man! Them's some stubby fingers!

Good endorsement for the water injection, though...

Man! Them's some stubby fingers!

You are correct my friend.

BTW shoe size is 11. :eyetwitch

Okay, Obama.........:lol2:

You are correct my friend.

BTW shoe size is 11. :eyetwitch

Stubby toes, too?

I wear Church shoes..........

I also hope to break you of your addiction, Juan, with my next offering.;)

ray,

an idea for your tshirts.

front / bhr racing.

back / first ones free.

beers :beer:

Plugs look great---now just imagine what the rotors are looking like.
Install my today---finally--- a 175 nozzle came with the kit so i will be using that---pre blower. Set the controller at 3 and full on at 4.8?
Mine will be a trunk mount with the 7 quart size tank---wish I knew how to post pics!!!
OD

if you are using meth how "user intensive" is it? ie how often do you have to check levels / fill up, and so on?

Also is it always on? or is it triggered by a temp sensor, a throttle sensor or whatever?

if you are using meth how "user intensive" is it? ie how often do you have to check levels / fill up, and so on?

Also is it always on? or is it triggered by a temp sensor, a throttle sensor or whatever?

If his is setup like mine; MAF sensor triggered.

Juan; Are those new plugs that were never carboned(they stayed clean), or did the methanol actually clean them?

Just wondering if my plugs are that clean now...

if you are using meth how "user intensive" is it? ie how often do you have to check levels / fill up, and so on?

Also is it always on? or is it triggered by a temp sensor, a throttle sensor or whatever?

I have a switch to turn on or off before and after using the car but it is ALWAYS on while driving.

My Snow Performance controller is set for MAF (can also be set for Boost) and it receives the signal from the yellow/red wire that is located on the MAF connector.

The controller has two other control knobs. One for turning the pump on and the other to control when to apply full voltage to the pump.

I'm using a 100/ml nozzle per blower and used less than an 1/8 of the OEM windshileld washer bottle after over 400 miles and an autocross event. :eyetwitch

Juan; Are those new plugs that were never carboned(they stayed clean), or did the methanol actually clean them?

That picture is of one of the NGK 10.5 that I installed about 600 miles ago and I took out to re-gap from .028 to .035. The trailings NGK 11.5 looked exactly the same an have about 1500 miles.

The dirty plug picture is of a OEM plug I have before the meth kit installation and with @ 1500 miles since original install. :eyetwitch

Set the controller at 3 and full on at 4.8?

Yeap, that's a good start. Mine is set at 3 and full at 3.5 due to the 100/ml nozzle that I'm currently using. :eyetwitch

Though I use the Innovate LC-1, the PLX (http://www.plxdevices.com/products/dm200/smafrcombo/)is the best integrated WBO2S/gauge system.

Looks a nice unit, apart from the price. One thing I did pick up on from their website, and now that people are stating to see the merits of Lambda, is they say on that PLX site that it doesn't need calibrating... BUT, the gauge measures AFR, and if it doesn't need calibrating how the hell can it display the right AFR if it doesn't know the stoich value for the fuel?

Let me be quite clear - 14.7:1 for gasoline is approximate, and varied with blend, Octane, region, yada-yada-yada.

Anyway - not meaning to hijack the thread but this topic is being discussed!

Cheers,
Hymee.

PS - I'm thinking about a range of Hymee Enhanced (R) Guages to compliment the sCANalyser suite. :eyetwitch

All gauges that require calibration, do so in free air. They don't care about the stoichiometry of the fuel.
Gauges that don't require calibration have a heater control circuit that doesn't have a switched component.

hey Jeff...what happened to your post count?
:spank:

hey Jeff...what happened to your post count?
:spank:


that is not jeff, that is his nice well behaved twin.... i think his nickname is mutt.

evil jeff is in timeout.

if you add mazda to the front of your screen name you are the evil one! :):lol:

beers :beer:

I think I am going with "Lil' Maniac"
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=143712

I think I am going with "Lil' Maniac"
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=143712

i am thinking lil mutt!!!

btw, check pm..

beers :beer:

so Juan,

its always on, yet there is a switch to turn it on or off? Im not sure I get that? Or is it that there is an on off switch, but you just leave it on always?

Also you just use windscreen washer fluid bottle? so you can no longer wash windscreen, or it just uses same mix?

As for the snow controller, I take it you don't need to constantly adjust things, (unless say you are at a track day and want more meth spraying more constantly?)

Cheers

I think I am going with "Lil' Maniac"
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=143712

Jeff,

Glad to know that week at rehab worked out for you, congratulations. :eyetwitch

However, like Britney and Lohan after rehab, it equates to lackluster personality. :icon_no2:

Can’t wait for them and you to fall of the wagon. :lol:

Anyway - not meaning to hijack the thread but this topic is being discussed!

Don’t need to apologize. Everyone is welcome in this thread. The owners, the wanna be, the I want one but no money, the I hate this SC, the I don’t own an RX8 but I’ll post my two cents comments, the good critics, the bad critics, the smart people, the people (like me) that only know 1% of what we are doing. :eyetwitch

so Juan,

its always on, yet there is a switch to turn it on or off? Im not sure I get that? Or is it that there is an on off switch, but you just leave it on always?

My car is not a daily driven car. Therefore, I use the on/off switch while the car sits in the garage as a failsafe mechanism.

Also you just use windscreen washer fluid bottle? so you can no longer wash windscreen, or it just uses same mix?

Again, my car is not a daily driven car. Therefore, no need for me to use a separate bottle for the meth. However, the windshield washer mechanism is still functional. I wont want to spray 51/49 water/meth all over my windshield/paint.

As for the snow controller, I take it you don't need to constantly adjust things, (unless say you are at a track day and want more meth spraying more constantly?)

Exactly :eyetwitch

Though I use the Innovate LC-1, the PLX (http://www.plxdevices.com/products/dm200/smafrcombo/)is the best integrated WBO2S/gauge system.

Wow, major bling factor for sure. OLEDs, switchable outputs. Have to think about that; makes the decision on which gauges to fit into a 3 gauge pod more flixible. Thanks, Jeff.

My view on that comparison is that the Autometer must be pretty accurate then ;)



Just use Lambda FFS!!!

Cheers,
Hymee.


Hymee, I need some education here: AFR vs. Lamda?

Spy shots off the prototype Mazda RX11 in its testing faze

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvCzSqEz5Gs

Nice balance for that 1/8 scale--see how the front in went down when you let off the gas? Glad there was grass on the other side!
Those things are a lot of fun
od

All gauges that require calibration, do so in free air. They don't care about the stoichiometry of the fuel.
Gauges that don't require calibration have a heater control circuit that doesn't have a switched component.

I was just commenting on the fact that the said gauge displays AFR, so it does need to know the stoich value, as it is a lambda meter in the first instance, and to display AFR it does a simple multiplication to get AFR.

Hymee, I need some education here: AFR vs. Lamda?

Wideband O2 sensors and their associated control circuitry measure Lambda. For ANY fuel, the ideal air:fuel ratio results in a Lambda value of 1.0

A depletion of Oxygen in the exhaust (i.e. too rich) lowers the Lambda value (less than 1.0).

An excess of oxygen (i.e. unburned O2 = too lean) gives a lambda value greater than 1.0.

To determine the AFR once you know the Lambda, you multiply Lambda by the stoich value for the fuel being used. The problem is you don't exactly know what that value is, as it depends - it is specific to the actual blend being burned at the time.

Therefore if you are tuning to obtain an AFR of, say 14.7:1 for example, using a meter displaying AFR, the accuracy of the reading depends on the accuracy of the AFR constant built into the guage. If the fuel was stoich at 14.67:1, and you were being very parfticular on getting 14.7, but the gauge was "calibrated" at 14.1, then the reading is BS anyway, so you are wasting your time. Yes - you will be close. The same argument applied if you are tuning for max power AFR.

However, if you use lambda, the target lambda you are tuning for doesn't change with the fuel blend. 1.0 is "ideal" for any fuel. Gasoline, Diesel, Methanol, Avgas, NitroMethane, Gasoline with pre-mix, Ethanol...

Lambda is independant of fuel. It is what the computer inside the car is using. AFR is a computed number based on an assumed stoich value for the fuel.

I hope that helps.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Question:

What would be the consequences of running an A/F ratio of 16.09 while at WOT and 7700+ RPM? :eyetwitch

if you did that, then you should be the one telling us what happened :)

you might get detonation, but that would depend on your fuel and charge temps

pretty simple...boom

Question:

What would be the consequences of running an A/F ratio of 16.09 while at WOT and 7700+ RPM? :eyetwitch

With a bunch of meth injection you might be ok; I give it a 60/40 shot of detonation with meth.

kaboom???? :lol:

Question:

What would be the consequences of running an A/F ratio of 16.09 while at WOT and 7700+ RPM? :eyetwitch

Under normal circumstances:
http://www.perl.com/2005/09/22/graphics/6boom.jpg

What would be the consequences of running an A/F ratio of 16.09 while at WOT and 7700+ RPM?

Actually, you would be surprised.
In a N/A application, you would just lose power.
In an FI application, you may simply lean-misfire.
Detonation would depend on whether there was a sudden temperature rise.
I actually had some 15:1 moments at 7 PSI or so on the highway in 5th gear the other day (I think I'm losing my fuel pump ballast resistor).

It just misfired, but no detonation.

Answer:

I was messing around trying to develop a CAI along with my RB Ram Air duct. Come to find out that the air G/S ratio dropped and my A/F ratio went sky high. On the other hand, glad I’m running meth as a failsafe system.

See attached A/F readings with Ram CAI and after removing the CAI. :eyetwitch

eep!

hymee: I am now a disciple of Lambda. Thanks!

Lambda is independant of fuel. It is what the computer inside the car is using. AFR is a computed number based on an assumed stoich value for the fuel.

I hope that helps.

Cheers,
Hymee.

So we're talking about software interpretation of the same data. If lamda is more desireable, why don't wideband controllers use it, and why don't we use the O2 sensor signal from the car for AFR readouts?

Great example of a reason not to mess with a maf tuned system without retuning:) BUT --great example also of what may happen once it is retuned with a true CAI!! Thanks Juan--i even have more faith in the water meth system now than I had before.
Why the hell Snow went up on there price so much? A $290 product is now over $400? WTF?
olddragger

Just got back from a 2500 mile trip with the car. It was !@#$ing awesome.

The car did great; 20mpg with avg hwy speeds of 75-85 mph, and I beat the hell out of it. It can even accelerate nicely going uphill in 6th gear... I couldn't test that before last week since I live in Florida and there aren't any real hills around here. The Tail of the Dragon was a lot more fun this time than it was back in November when I went with some friends in a Dodge Durango. Following Cam through it just made it more fun. :rock:

My only issue involved occasional bubbling in my intercooler reservoir, which I hope to remedy with some of that D.E.I. Charge Chill that Juan raves about, so I ordered some from Mr. Hill this weekend and hope to get it by the end of the week.

Hopefully before Summer begins I'll be able to start my car's meth addiction, and maybe in September I'll head up for TBOD.

So we're talking about software interpretation of the same data. If lamda is more desireable, why don't wideband controllers use it, and why don't we use the O2 sensor signal from the car for AFR readouts?

Wideband controllers do use it! They just calculate and display the AFR because that is what people want to see. Sort of like Imperial v's Metric.

Why don't we use it??? I have been saying since the day I found out there was a WB02 sensor, and I could read it's Lambda reading on OBDII (i.e. 4+ years ago), that there was no need to put an additional WB02 sensor on the car. Canzoomer told me to "get over it", and others have argued it's value. Sometimes I feel like :banghead: :banghead: Thankfully, people are staring to appreciate it.

Cheers,
Hymee.

G, thanks for the business and it shipped out today. You should have it Wednesday or Thursday.;)

Wideband controllers do use it! They just calculate and display the AFR because that is what people want to see. Sort of like Imperial v's Metric.

Why don't we use it??? I have been saying since the day I found out there was a WB02 sensor, and I could read it's Lambda reading on OBDII (i.e. 4+ years ago), that there was no need to put an additional WB02 sensor on the car. Canzoomer told me to "get over it", and others have argued it's value. Sometimes I feel like :banghead: :banghead: Thankfully, people are staring to appreciate it.

Cheers,
Hymee.


Mark, I think this issue is a prime example of the benefits of being "bilingual".;)

Wideband controllers do use it! They just calculate and display the AFR because that is what people want to see. Sort of like Imperial v's Metric.

Why don't we use it??? I have been saying since the day I found out there was a WB02 sensor, and I could read it's Lambda reading on OBDII (i.e. 4+ years ago), that there was no need to put an additional WB02 sensor on the car. Canzoomer told me to "get over it", and others have argued it's value. Sometimes I feel like :banghead: :banghead: Thankfully, people are staring to appreciate it.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Hmmm. As soon as I can figure out where it is, I'd follow the money:evil_laug

Why don't we use it??? I have been saying since the day I found out there was a WB02 sensor, and I could read it's Lambda reading on OBDII (i.e. 4+ years ago), that there was no need to put an additional WB02 sensor on the car.

It doesn't appear to show AFR's under 11. That to me makes it useless since I want to know how much under 11 the AFR is. Under 10 I don't care about since the car runs like crap at that point.

G, thanks for the business and it shipped out today. You should have it Wednesday or Thursday.;)

Thanks, got the tracking # (that was quick)

BTW, for anyone interested, you can see pictures of that 2500+ trip right here:
http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=2404888&postcount=13

and here:
http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=2415988&postcount=25

Most fun I've had in a while.

hard to just drive on "flat " land now isnt it?
Nice pics and write up man--glad yall had a good time.
olddragger

awesome pics Bastage!!!
looks like you guys had a great time...especially hangin out with Cam and Kandi!!

none of the pictures show up for me........all I get is a little red X. They will not open up. Did you put them on photo bucket? if you did could you send me a link?

Thank you, got the links -the pics are good- beautiful area - Nice family - Cam got away to, that's good. Glad to hear the 8 did it's thing properly.

I finished my install of the MSD 8247s this morning. I'll post some pics soon.

Many thanks to Juan and Ray for their help.

go ahead and get a water meth system while you are at it.
olddragger

I'm waiting to buy one from Ray.

I think the best advice for the Pettit owners is to get the IATs down to as close to ambient as possible, first, then deal with potential belt-slippage, second, THEN look into adding more stuff to the kit. Besides, by the time all that is done my spacers will be ready to go and then you guys can absolve yourselves of needing to drill anything in order to install the alky kits.

I think the best advice for the Pettit owners is to get the IATs down to as close to ambient as possible, first, then deal with potential belt-slippage, second, THEN look into adding more stuff to the kit. Besides, by the time all that is done my spacers will be ready to go and then you guys can absolve yourselves of needing to drill anything in order to install the alky kits.

Sorry Ray, I just could not wait. :eyetwitch

BTW, did your customer service folks told you about my above mentioned BHR mods backorders? :lol:

Wideband controllers do use it! They just calculate and display the AFR because that is what people want to see. Sort of like Imperial v's Metric.

Why don't we use it??? I have been saying since the day I found out there was a WB02 sensor, and I could read it's Lambda reading on OBDII (i.e. 4+ years ago), that there was no need to put an additional WB02 sensor on the car. Canzoomer told me to "get over it", and others have argued it's value. Sometimes I feel like :banghead: :banghead: Thankfully, people are staring to appreciate it.

Cheers,
Hymee.

The more I think about the gauge thing, the more I think we use AFRs because it's more exciting to see "12.5", "11.9", and so on. Who wants to spend $300 bucks for a gauge that just reads "1"?

11.2 is what does it for me.

The more I think about the gauge thing, the more I think we use AFRs because it's more exciting to see "12.5", "11.9", and so on. Who wants to spend $300 bucks for a gauge that just reads "1"?

:lol: good point

i think seeing .92 is just as cool as seeing 12.7. less is more.

beers :beer:

i think seeing .92 is just as cool as seeing 12.7. less is more.

beers :beer:

thats what he said!!
:naughty:

11.2 is what does it for me.

Only when the Boost controller reads 83kPa. :lol2:

I hear we have another pettit kit car in georgia---who is it?
olddragger

Got my DEI Charge Chill delivered this morning. Thanks again Charles.

My japanese girlfriend is getting the spa treatment tomorrow. Oil Change/IC reservoir flush and replacement/Wash-Wax/and a surprise I'll save for tomorrow.

Got my DEI Charge Chill delivered this morning. Thanks again Charles.

My japanese girlfriend is getting the spa treatment tomorrow. Oil Change/IC reservoir flush and replacement/Wash-Wax/and a surprise I'll save for tomorrow.


Don't forget the "Happy Ending":lol2:

what do you think that surprise is all about? :lol:

A friend sent me this info:

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/resources/OpenTune.pdf

I called Innovatemotorsports technical support and was told that it will work on an RX8.

Sells for @ $150

Feedback please. :eyetwitch

Check this out, looking for a place like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRtBDuoHwyI

uhhhhhh---not for me. Sweet Jesus i would ruin the water in that hole.
olddragger

has anyone used the odyssey 680 battery? My electric steering pulled it down.
OD

Check out my last AutoX event in Ganesville, FL

Ops, got to exited at the end of the run. :eyetwitch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iU3LCgGV4o

got my efi dude today and made a little run--now i wish I knew what the hell it meant.
got my innovate wideband working--ashtray mount--turned out well. I used the 2nd o2 sensor power source(i have a midpipe anyway) and water meth kit is installed ---trunk mount---a 175 nozzle pre blower. also am monitoring intake temps at the upper intake manifold junction with the lower. Now that I feel a little less gun shy i ran her a little hard. Found out my tach is off about 500 rpm, also found out this damn car is FAST! Holey Mother of God--4th gear--100MPH and the front end is still lifted.:Eyecrazy:
denny

New custom made air filter/MAF heat shield and HPS air filter.

Enjoy it. :eyetwitch

Two more. :eyetwitch

Nice---very nice
Olddragger

Two more. :eyetwitch
looks like a neat/clean install - let us know if the insulation seems to make a difference

just got back from the Mitty at Road Atlanta and spoke of our kit to the Flying Miata people and I showed Paul from Mazmart my intre setup ---they all loved it --said it was good. trying to spread the word a little---and while i was at it i heard a group of 4 rotor gtp(?) historical cars race. NICE
olddragger

olddragger, here are pics of your car from the Mitty at Road Atlanta on Saturday. :D:

http://silvereightstudio.com/images_other/denny/DSC_2209.jpg

http://silvereightstudio.com/images_other/denny/DSC_2211.jpg

http://silvereightstudio.com/images_other/denny/DSC_2214.jpg

http://silvereightstudio.com/images_other/denny/DSC_2219.jpg

http://silvereightstudio.com/images_other/denny/DSC_2221.jpg

http://silvereightstudio.com/images_other/denny/DSC_2217.jpg

http://silvereightstudio.com/images_other/denny/DSC_2223.jpg

looks like a neat/clean install - let us know if the insulation seems to make a difference

Took my car for a drive (50 miles roundtrip) and here is what I logged.

78 degrees Amb temp - 105 degrees AIT (sensor located after blower) - 195 degrees engine temp at 60/65/70 mph. All temps remained constant at every speed interval while cruising on a flat central Florida straight road.

The AIT registered 107 degrees and 197 engine temp when I bumped the speed to 75 and 80 mph.

After cruising I did a couple of WOT runs (one after the other) with the second reaching 130 mph.

Here are my readings just after the second WOT run.

78 degrees Amb temp - 123 degrees AIT - 202 degrees engine temp.

Also, I was not able to log my trip with the EFIdude due to operator headspace error :banghead: but I do notice more air filter noise. I assume that I'm able to draw more air because the HPS air filter material is not as compact as the K&N air filter brand. Thus my reason for purchasing the HPS air filter. However, the EFIdude logger will let me know for sure if the air gallons per second went up next time I take the car for a spin since I have plenty of data at WOT with the old K&N filter. :eyetwitch

Next on the drawing board is a metal version of our Pettit SC kit air bypass valve that I purchased on eBay. It should arrive this week and I'll let you know (as always) my findings. It is basically the same thing except that all the components are made of aluminum instead of plastic. I showed it to Cam and he said he likes it and he reminded me to not use any of the springs. :eyetwitch

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Bosch-Turbo-Bypass-Valve-for-Audi-Porsche-VW-Diverter_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742Q2em153Q2e l1262QQcategoryZ33742QQihZ023QQitemZ360031281185

olddragger, here are pics of your car from the Mitty at Road Atlanta on Saturday. :D:

http://silvereightstudio.com/images_other/denny/DSC_2223.jpg


Details, details, details.
Nice! :eyetwitch

Nice instal Denny.

Nice instal Denny.

I agree, like the wheels too ;)

BTW, Moon... how's your car coming along?

Next on the drawing board is a metal version of our Pettit SC kit air bypass valve that I purchased on eBay. It should arrive this week and I'll let you know (as always) my findings. It is basically the same thing except that all the components are made of aluminum instead of plastic. I showed it to Cam and he said he likes it and he reminded me to not use any of the springs. :eyetwitch

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Bosch-Turbo-Bypass-Valve-for-Audi-Porsche-VW-Diverter_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742Q2em153Q2e l1262QQcategoryZ33742QQihZ023QQitemZ360031281185


You should see the one on Phil's car.;)

saweet Denny!!!

:D:

Thanks Silver for posting these---he knows my rep concerning posting pics!
Thanks for the thumbs up all!
Some details
1- pettit kit(black version thanks to Moon!)
2-Mazsports ignition solution---i aint smart like Juan!--it is a beatiful set up
3- Mazsports custom windshieldwasher tank and their firewall mount
4- custom oil filter relocate with heat guard--via Adams racing!
5- Snows water meth system -- maf controller on the firewall, water meth line routed through the center console--7 quart tank in trunk, solenoid custom mount(can you find it?), one 175 nozzle pre blower.
6- gauges are pro sports water/oil temps, autometer intake temp and innovate wideband(custom mount in ashtray--yes the lid closes--LED lights in the ashtray for the wide band and the w/m system.
7- switch on console for w/m activation
8 rp short shifter
9 cant see it but MS double resonated midpipe --amazing sound with the rb catback--made wideband easy to install also.
10- cant see but mazmarts water pump.
11- removed airpump and custom mount heat shield between header and lower intake
12- did you notice that the heater hose on the firewall is gone?---i ran it under the car--removed some heart from around the intake etc and made for more room
13- heat wrapped the a/c line
14 mazdaspeed strut of course
i have some other stuff also you cant see. like the efi dude, clutch flywheel, suspenion etc
anyone want details of a particular--i will be glad to share whant I know.
A big thanks to Juan , Pettit, Mazcare, Mazsport, Mazmart, Silvereight and all others i may not have mentioned that my old brain cant remember---its a great community!
olddragger

Been delayed but its deffinatly going in this week.

^^^
Looks great.

Have you monitored your intake temps with the methanol injection? I'm curious about a before and after...

Also, at what point or lbs/min does the meth injection activate on your setup?

w/m really helps with intake temps---hottest day so far here in mid ga has been mid 80's--running 3/4 hard up to 110mph several times and intake temps not over 125 ---ever! Mostly lower than 120.
Controller at present activates at around 3v from the Maf and maxs at around 4.8v---i am still playing with that and it may change as the weather gets warmer etc.
Remember also the methanol increases the octane rating---that aint bad at all.
I would advise people to monitor their intake temps (just use the old pettit site) as my fuse blew one day that powers the a/w pump and i didnt know it. But i saw the intake temps climbing and figued it out quickly. The temp can jump to 130-135 very quickly. Not good.:) Glad I had the gauge.
Also the w/m system is like steam cleaning your engine all the time--helps prevent carbon buidup.
olddragger

I would advise people to monitor their intake temps (just use the old pettit site) as my fuse blew one day that powers the a/w pump and i didnt know it.

How? Does the old pettit site have some kind of telepathic connection to all rx8's intake temps???

:Eyecrazy:

:)

Next on the drawing board is a metal version of our Pettit SC kit air bypass valve that I purchased on eBay. It should arrive this week and I'll let you know (as always) my findings. It is basically the same thing except that all the components are made of aluminum instead of plastic. I showed it to Cam and he said he likes it and he reminded me to not use any of the springs. :eyetwitch

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Bosch-Turbo-Bypass-Valve-for-Audi-Porsche-VW-Diverter_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742Q2em153Q2e l1262QQcategoryZ33742QQihZ023QQitemZ360031281185

Ray got me one a few weeks ago when my boost went "by by". It looks similar to the EBay offering except the one he got me was the polished aluminum one. Big difference the boost is back. How is yours working?

you have to install a air temp gauge in which it has a sensor that needs to be installed into the intake manifold. The old Pettit intake temp sensor position is a good spot and the after market sensor will fit into it without any modification. So its a good spot.
Phil do you have a boost gauge? How did you know you were loosing boost?
Whats wrong with the one we have? Anything to look out for?
OD

you have to install a air temp gauge in which it has a sensor that needs to be installed into the intake manifold. The old Pettit intake temp sensor position is a good spot and the after market sensor will fit into it without any modification. So its a good spot.
Phil do you have a boost gauge? How did you know you were loosing boost?
Whats wrong with the one we have? Anything to look out for?
OD
Yep, I have a boost gauge. At first we figured it was the gauge cuz boost would start to build and just fall off to almost nothing. I went out and purchased a cheep mechanical boost gauge to check the incar one and tried it - same thing. Also had a large drop in temperature on the innercooler. Ray was doing some innercooler work at that time and I attributed the drastic drop in temps to his work. Ray sent me the new bypass and there is now a world of difference. The temps went back up also, ambient + about 10 degrees.

Ambient + 10 degrees F !? Did I read that right? You are measuring post blower ---correct?
So you are saying that at 80f ambient your intake temp is at 90F?
if that is true---Holey Mother of God! Mine is a good 30-40 degrees higher even with the water meth activated. So 80F outside+ hard run = 110---120F.
Cruising is a different story--its only about 20-30 degrees then.
Is Rays intercooler that good!
olddragger

Ambient + 10 degrees F !? Did I read that right? You are measuring post blower ---correct?
So you are saying that at 80f ambient your intake temp is at 90F?
if that is true---Holey Mother of God! Mine is a good 30-40 degrees higher even with the water meth activated. So 80F outside+ hard run = 110---120F.
Cruising is a different story--its only about 20-30 degrees then.
Is Rays intercooler that good!
olddragger
Ray will be here soon. I should have kept my mouth shut and let Ray say what he sees. Ask him what he is claiming, as I only know what I see it to be. My readings are from a lazer temp gun and not from a gauge (yet).

I don't know what Denny is yelling about......he's gonna do me a favor and SERIOUSLY flog the BHR liquid intercooler and gather data for me on May 17-18. I can't make any claims except those that may be based on simple math but math and Mother Nature don't always agree. Thus, the "flogging" event.;)

Phil has done stellar work for me, like always, but I need some track proofing, as well.

Ray got me one a few weeks ago when my boost went "by by". It looks similar to the EBay offering except the one he got me was the polished aluminum one. Big difference the boost is back. How is yours working?

Its in the mail and should arrive tomorrow or the next day. Will post pix and results afterward.:eyetwitch :eyetwitch

This the one I have

http://www.namotorsports.net/detail.cfm/part_cd/VFA01-01

Looks like I just dropped MY price on them.:lol2:

Ray. Is the VF engineering valve similar to the one you installed recently??

In general appearance, yes. I sent a note to my supplier to see what the deal is. If they are one and the same I guess I have a little price competing to do, don't I?;)

Marsreder: My bypass did not come with replaceable springs but is still adjustable. I am curious as to why you would not use one of the springs? Ray told me to leave mine as it came from the factory but I am curious as to why? I realize that you can get more boost than the engine will take and that maybe your gas mileage would be affected but is there another reason that my age affected brain can not fathom?

I ain't yelling---I am just excited and at my age you enjoy those exciting times as much as possible:)! I have been looking at fluidynes supercharger cooler cooler for the mustang set up---sure looks good.
10 days to tracking and old friends--its going to be a blast. I will not get much sleep friday night so i dont know about my energy level Sat--but I will try.
My car is running good---you may also have some suggestions on my water meth system settings etc. I like seeing my innovate a/f gauge react to the w/m going in(and coming out obviously).
I still have to get a small catch can for track use.
Curious about upgrading(?) the blow off valve---what benefit over the oridginal is there? My power is good so my boost is good i suppose----i dont have a boost gauge.
This kit is maturing--- the only thing i really wish for is a automatic belt tensioner.
By the way what is the replacement number for our belt--i want to take an extra to the track.
olddragger

Marsreder: My bypass did not come with replaceable springs but is still adjustable. I am curious as to why you would not use one of the springs? Ray told me to leave mine as it came from the factory but I am curious as to why? I realize that you can get more boost than the engine will take and that maybe your gas mileage would be affected but is there another reason that my age affected brain can not fathom?

Phil,

I'm just following Cam's recommendation as I stated before. I can't recall exactly what he told me over the phone but the word instantaneously comes to mind.

OD

The Bosch type bypass valve has a diaphragm which is prone to vacuum leak and the diaphragm can wobble inside thus not allowing to seat properly. Also, no to mention that the valve is made out of plastic and prone to come apart under high boost conditions. (Ask Munche about it.) The metal type bypass contains an internal piston that travels straight (up/down) inside the bypass valve chamber for a better seal and (obviously) is made out of metal (stronger than plastic). :eyetwitch

I ain't yelling---I am just excited and at my age you enjoy those exciting times as much as possible:)! I have been looking at fluidynes supercharger cooler cooler for the mustang set up---sure looks good.
10 days to tracking and old friends--its going to be a blast. I will not get much sleep friday night so i dont know about my energy level Sat--but I will try.
My car is running good---you may also have some suggestions on my water meth system settings etc. I like seeing my innovate a/f gauge react to the w/m going in(and coming out obviously).
I still have to get a small catch can for track use.
Curious about upgrading(?) the blow off valve---what benefit over the oridginal is there? My power is good so my boost is good i suppose----i dont have a boost gauge.
This kit is maturing--- the only thing i really wish for is a automatic belt tensioner.
By the way what is the replacement number for our belt--i want to take an extra to the track.
olddragger
Get a boost gauge - I think you will be surprised as to what is happening. I am having so many things happening all at once that it is hard to be sure what is causing increased performance. I do know that #1 on my list was Jeff and the Cobb AP. The changing of the boost bypass seems to have given me much more consistent acceleration. Ray is coming out with a new belt system so that will solve my constant checking of the belt tension and hopefully relieve my concern about too much tension and bearing wear. My concerns about overheating are in the past. Now if I can just stop Jeff long enough to do a final tune on my 8, I will dyno it.

Doesn't Denny have a boost gauge?
BHR is working on a new blower drive with Gates.
The BHR intercooler is spec'd to be able to cool 40 lbs./min. of airflow at 14 psi., assuming the undercooler is also up to the task. The heat-shedder is a little more important than the heat retainer.

Doesn't Denny have a boost gauge?
BHR is working on a new blower drive with Gates.
The BHR intercooler is spec'd to be able to cool 40 lbs./min. of airflow at 14 psi., assuming the undercooler is also up to the task. The heat-shedder is a little more important than the heat retainer.
Denny posted that he did not have one. Should I send him that cheepie that I used for a back up?:)

Nah, if he wants one he has several sources to get them from.;)

Another gauge? Dang --cant keep my eye on the road as it is. we are loosing boost huh? c Ok where is a good place to drill for the install---after RR i may do this.
maybe i need the new bypass valve before Roebling? If it is causing lost boost or erratic boost i would say i need it.
recommendations and be quick please as in 9 days I am on track. Does Summit carry a good one?
Ray 40lbs an hr-- huh--thats nice and does the volume increase a good bit also? I have no idea about the undercooler---it would be nice to have a real cool can for track use.
olddragger

I am working on a bulk purchase of about 15-20 billet bypass valves.

My intercooler is spec'd for about 400 h.p. and enough intake temp reduction to cool 13-14 psi with typical ambients. Overrated for the Opcon to say the least.

I discovered that if you remove the spring you get a better idle because of less load on the blower. You get less noise also. Guess the secrets out :uhh: Just make sure you grease or oil the valve to keep the Orings from sticking. I havent tryed it but id bet if you put a little oil in the valve were you hook the vac hose youl be good for a while.

I discovered that if you remove the spring you get a better idle because of less load on the blower. You get less noise also. Guess the secrets out :uhh: Just make sure you grease or oil the valve to keep the Orings from sticking. I havent tryed it but id bet if you put a little oil in the valve were you hook the vac hose youl be good for a while.

Moon, I never bothered to check the kit supplied bypass valve so I am asking you if I understand you correctly. It's OK to use a spring or stock tension on the bypass valve? The Cobb AP has corrected my idle to stock like and I have only the same sound from the s/c as before. I just want to be sure that the stock tension is OK to use.

Phil,

I'm just following Cam's recommendation as I stated before. I can't recall exactly what he told me over the phone but the word instantaneously comes to mind.

OD

The Bosch type bypass valve has a diaphragm which is prone to vacuum leak and the diaphragm can wobble inside thus not allowing to seat properly. Also, no to mention that the valve is made out of plastic and prone to come apart under high boost conditions. (Ask Munche about it.) The metal type bypass contains an internal piston that travels straight (up/down) inside the bypass valve chamber for a better seal and (obviously) is made out of metal (stronger than plastic). :eyetwitch

I have popped my share of diaphragms. I have to thank Moon he found my new VF one for me.

Its fine to do, it dosnt hurt anything but if you unload the blower at idle it has alot less of a rattle. Also being unloaded creats a little less heat in the charge. It still closes just fine (if your still letting the bypass valve see boost and vac).

Its ok to try and see if you like it that way. Go ahead give it the Pepsi challenge and see for yourself, it only takes a minute to switch back. Im not asking you to hold a coil so your good to go. :)

I have popped my share of diaphragms. I have to thank Moon he found my new VF one for me.
Great, the one I have is piston operated also but seems to be stiffer than the Bosh one and seems to offer more boost. Just checking to be sure that this is OK. Previous ones were the plastic stock diaphragm type did not last.

Yeh, Roland can tell you all about it.

Juan, Munche, all those using upgraded bypass valves; How much boost are you seeing on your gauges??

As soon as I get a gauge I'll let you know. :eyetwitch

I've been using an "Opcon" supplied billet bypass valve with my Autorotor's compressors since day one.

http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=120289&stc=1&d=1210230408

Cheers,
Hymee.

Try using the Toilet Flapper Valve that comes in the Pettit kit.:lol2:

Juan, Munche, all those using upgraded bypass valves; How much boost are you seeing on your gauges??

Just got the bypass valve today. I will post pictures and test results Friday. :eyetwitch

Just got the bypass valve today. I will post pictures and test results Friday. :eyetwitch
I need a teenager to come show me, step by step, how to post picturers:). I've had people tell me how but it never works for me.

Juan, Munche, all those using upgraded bypass valves; How much boost are you seeing on your gauges??
13-14 lbs currently and it runs like a charm. That is with the stock setting as it comes from the factory.

13-14 lbs currently and it runs like a charm. That is with the stock setting as it comes from the factory.

13-14 lbs :Eyecrazy: :Eyecrazy: :Eyecrazy:

With the stock 8 lbs pulley? :eyetwitch

13-14 lbs :Eyecrazy: :Eyecrazy: :Eyecrazy:

With the stock 8 lbs pulley? :eyetwitch
Cam came to Vegas a while back (I think late last sumer and worked on my car while I was on vacation. He did change the pulley along with a few other items. I must assume that he did install a 8 lbs one but you know I never asked. Prior to that point I always ran about 10 lbs at maximum. I developed some issues with the car after his visit (not related to his visit) and one of them was with the boost gauge sensor. With all the issues now corrected and with a new boost gauge I am currently showing 13-14lbs of boost at 7800rpm (can be confirmed by those at the Cali dyno meet).

13-14 lbs on a 4 port---holy bejeez!! No wonder the Cobb helped you out man---would love to see a dyno sheet on that!
I do not want over 10 lb boost on this 10/1 compression engine. I will be just fine at 7/8 lbs of boost. Now I wonder if that is what I am getting?
Moon do you mean you can inject a little oil in the bosh bbv or do you mean only with the metal type? I am thinking only the metal one.
Yall are making me more nervous about my track day a coming.
BY THE WAY WHAT IS THE SC BELT NUMBER__NEED EXTRA ONE>
olddragger

13-14 lbs on a 4 port---holy bejeez!! No wonder the Cobb helped you out man---would love to see a dyno sheet on that!
I do not want over 10 lb boost on this 10/1 compression engine. I will be just fine at 7/8 lbs of boost. Now I wonder if that is what I am getting?
Moon do you mean you can inject a little oil in the bosh bbv or do you mean only with the metal type? I am thinking only the metal one.
Yall are making me more nervous about my track day a coming.
BY THE WAY WHAT IS THE SC BELT NUMBER__NEED EXTRA ONE>
olddragger
Why get nervous. If you saw the way I drive and the loads I put on this car you would know that if anything was going to happen it would have.

Originally Posted by olddragger
13-14 lbs on a 4 port---holy bejeez!! No wonder the Cobb helped you out man---would love to see a dyno sheet on that!
I do not want over 10 lb boost on this 10/1 compression engine. I will be just fine at 7/8 lbs of boost. Now I wonder if that is what I am getting?
Moon do you mean you can inject a little oil in the bosh bbv or do you mean only with the metal type? I am thinking only the metal one.
Yall are making me more nervous about my track day a coming.
BY THE WAY WHAT IS THE SC BELT NUMBER__NEED EXTRA ONE>
olddragger


Why get nervous. If you saw the way I drive and the loads I put on this car you would know that if anything was going to happen it would have.

I have to second Phil and have Moon and Cam to vouche for me. I push my car hard I have doen one auto X and have had some runs at the Homestead speed way and others that can't be spoken of here on the forum(some of you have seen some of the vids) The only casualty has been the diaphrams. You should be more than ok. :)

14 PSI with only 300 g/sec of flow or so.
You do the math.

14 PSI with only 300 g/sec of flow or so.
You do the math.

Wish one of these you recommend for the task? :eyetwitch

I like the colored one.

Racist.

13-14 lbs on a 4 port---holy bejeez!! No wonder the Cobb helped you out man---would love to see a dyno sheet on that!
I do not want over 10 lb boost on this 10/1 compression engine. I will be just fine at 7/8 lbs of boost. Now I wonder if that is what I am getting?
Moon do you mean you can inject a little oil in the bosh bbv or do you mean only with the metal type? I am thinking only the metal one.
Yall are making me more nervous about my track day a coming.
BY THE WAY WHAT IS THE SC BELT NUMBER__NEED EXTRA ONE>
olddragger

The belt is a 32.5 inch, 5 rib. Its actually the exact same one as the main drive belt IIRC.

4-ports should naturally get higher boost than the 6 ports motors if they are pulleyed the same. A positive displacement S/C will eat mostly the same amount of air per S/C rev as it does on a 6-port, but on a AT the blower has to work harder (increase pressure) to force the engine to eat it with only the 4 ports. This may be part of the reason of more belt slippage too on ATs. Once air is ingested at the blower inlet, it has nowhere else to go except through the motor. The twin-screw will steal whatever power it needs and increase pressure if necessary to maintain air in == air out.

I'd predict that this would make the AT Pettit car very similar in power to a 6-port. There will be extra power stolen from the crank by the S/C on the AT and extra heating of the intake charge which might necessitate a slightly more conservative tune on a AT from the increased pressure, but overall I'd predict the AT should be eating mostly the same amount of air as the 6port.

I'd love to do more math with this, but don't have the reliable MAF vs. RPM data and a S/C flow map of the supercharger. Lysholm publishes a flow map for theirs, but its not the same blower as the one we have.

You're right Jess and I was thinking the same thing the other night with regard to F/I systems in general. A given compressor that is moving the same amount of air in both a 4 and 6 port engine, at the same RPMs will yield higher manifold pressures in the 4-port engine. Thus, the playing field is somewhat "levelled" with F/I. The biggest difference will be IATs but, in Phil's case, he had my intercooler for protection. The question with Phil's car is why in the world did a simple bypass valve yield such different manifold pressures and how much leaking was present prior to the change. This may also be related to the reason why the plastic valves are prone to splitting, at least in two cases I know of, at high RPMs.

BTW, if you're right about the dimensions of that belt I have a racing version I can order for you guys until my damned new blower drive is done. Gates moves SLOOOOW with this stuff sometimes.

If you raise the pressure, all that happens is the temperature goes up, so nothing is really "leveled".

What happens when you stuff the same amount of air in two similar displacement engines with their main differences being the intake manifold systems?

Here's some interesting math facts:

*) Intake charge temp of 120degF undergoes 10:1 compression at TDC
*) Thermodynamics demands charge temp would go to at least 653 degF with that much compression
*) The autoignition point of gasoline is somewhere around 494degF -> 544degF

Thank goodness for tuning and the latent heat of vaporization cooling of a rich fuel mixture.