brewster

can someone help me with this. I was told at the dealership from a check engine light that it was caused by a faulty aux air port valve and that the engine had to be removed to change it out. The cost for parts and labor is gonna be about $2000. Is this correct? Is this something that could be done w/o removing the motor? Please help, Thank's. Tony
It is on a 2009 with 46k on it.

wcs

iTrader: (2)

Yup sounds wrong
But we have no guarentee that you arent mixing terms up as well.

Go with the dealer or post the actual work order

brewster

well the work order says that per word. I talked to the mech and he said that the part was mounted to the lower intake and that it could cause a little fouling or mess inside the bottom of the ports. I have looked through the passengers wheel well and I see a black module that is bolted at the bootom of the intake with one harness. Don't know if that is it for sure but was hoping someone here could advise me. I definately never just go with a dealerships word, but didn't want to chance it with a check engine light.

Z0oMzo0m

iTrader: (4)

Post a picture of what module u are looking at to be sure. You have that module and possibly could mistake the omp pump sensor. But I have an extra module for sale if u are interested.

RX8Soldier

iTrader: (24)

Check this thread https://www.rx8club.com/do-yourself-...-video-184663/

ASH8

NO you can't tell this to this owner he has a 2009 Series II, it does not have same MOP set up.

ASH8

"brewster"...

See in this Mazda EPC sketch of the Genuine Mazda Parts, this in 'red' 13-1701 is the actual black APV Motor which you can see from right tire removal, the cover is black and for memory has a sliver and blue label on this black cover?...this is your APV Motor, and are about $170.

The two long 'tubes' (13-B6X, 13-B6XA) are the APV Valves.

NOW, is it possible for you to get hold of the DTC code that the Dealer diagnosed, it might be on your invoice/job sheets?

It will be like eg. P2004, or P2005

ASH8

Most of the Intake in the Series II R3's are the same as Series 1 2004-2008, but there are some sensor differences...

The one APV Motor are the same, but the two APV Valves are not the same.

Having said that the one APV Motor are not really a problem item, for Series 1's, most of the issues are with the SS Valve Shutters gunking or sticking up and have to be removed and cleaned, Mazda did some changed to help prevent some of the "carbon" sticky gunk from building up, but I don't think they eliminated it on the S2's.

The VDI Shutter can also give issues..but I doubt it in your case.

I know I will be corrected, but I have not heard of ANY S2's having to be replaced or cleaned.

Jon is our Expert with SSV's, If this is an issue and he knows a lot about APV Motors, SSV Shutters, and Valves, and a GREAT Bloke!

The link 'RX8Soldier' put up is Jon's thread on it...I will get him to look at this..

Brewster, apart from a CEL, what other symptoms are you getting just driving your R3??,
How does it perform at higher RPM?

brewster

the car is running great, there is no idle prob or anything like that. Power feels good with no hes or shudder. This issue came up today as I was on my way to the docs office. I was getting on the interstate and thought it would be a good idea to bring the revs up a little because I rarely run it past 5-6 thousand, so I brung it up to around 8500 shifted thru the rest of the gears regularly and when I set the cruise at 75mph maybe a couple of seconds went by then the engine light came on. The part I was looking at through the wheel well is black with a wire harness and a vacuum line attached. Can't remember if it had that color label but I believe I remember a label on it.
the light was reset and on the drive home (30 minutes) I didn't get the light.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

It would be nice to know the exact code so we know specifically what failed with the APV.
If the CEL illuminates again, just drive to the local Autozone and ask them to pull the code (its free).
All we need is the code because their description won't matter (it'll be something like P2004).

If you would like to test the APV assembly, this DIY can help:
https://www.rx8club.com/do-yourself-...valves-174009/
Its important to know if the valves move and if the motor runs.
This will determine the next course of action.

ASH8

Thank you Jon, for chiming in and helping. ..I agree the DT Code # would be good to know.

So Brewster, you say your 8 is running great, even at high RPM, you could of had a sticking APV gear in Motor/Valve, that perhaps has rectified itself?

The thought of a misfire came to me, Spark Plugs might have needed cleaning out by higher revving, which you did by taking her past 6000 RPM and now it's OK?

But yes, I would wait and see if it (CEL) comes back as Jon said...get code read and come back to this thread.

I am REALLY shaking my head at the Dealer claim of 'taking engine out' and charging you $2000.
This crap of a diagnosis needs reporting to the Mazda Police!..

wcs

iTrader: (2)

edit ---
forget it I'm taking my net and going home

brewster

ok, called the dealer to ask for codes. It had a po-2004 and po-2005. He said that it would need part number n3r4-13-b70a and part number n3r4-18-221-a. Hope this will help clarify some. Thank's.
mech said that the last part may have some carbon build up/

ASH8

Yep, they are for APV 'Stuck', or Sticking or Malfunction..

If the input voltage is more than 1.0 V, the PCM (ECU) determines that the APV is stuck open, hence your CEL.

The N3R4-18-221A is a Sensor ONLY (only North America uses 2 of these) which IMO could either be linked to the mechanical/motor APV sticking (N3R4-13-B70A) and or the SSV sticking or both.

Since we have not seen the Series 2's having sticking or gunked up SSV's, yet, I would lean towards your APV Motor sticking or malfunctioning, I had this happen to me once, (but in Australia (rest of world) we don't have these Intake Sensors (N3R4-18-221A) for SSV/VDI Valves therefore no DTC's for them)...It was an unusual hot and humid day, I put it down (sticking) to that and it has not happen again...a few years ago.

Brewster, you said that it had rectified itself?,,,is this correct?, are you still having issues at high RPM?..and CEL light?

IF not, I would personally not be too concerned...if it continues and frustrates you the a decision may need to be taken by you..your car won't fall apart or blow up in the mean time..

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

If its just sticking and not completely stuck, you can try to "exercise" the valves to loosen the buildup.
Unfortunately... the valves are in a tricky place.

There is something you can do to help reduce the valves from stick.
Perform a "decarb" on the engine to get some the fluids near (and hopefully on) the valves.
Then remove the air pump to gain access to the APV motor's wire harness easily.
Just like you saw in my DIY link above, hook a 12VDC supply to it and cycle the valves back and forth several times.
The video also shows you how to hook up a switch like mine (cheap and easy).

Yes... turning the key on/off also cycles the valves, but this way allows you to cycle them quicker.

I've done this on cars with sticking valves and you can hear the valves get looser as they are cycled (you can hear the motor isn't struggling as much).
If you're comfortable with taking the UIM off, you can pour some carb cleaner down the aux runners (the two outer inlets) and once the valves are cycled, it should "pour" some of fluid into the engine and hopefully around the valves some.
It won't get all the way around, but it might help.

Hope this helps!

Z0oMzo0m

iTrader: (4)

Ooo sorry, thanks ASH8, I didnt catch it was a 2009!

brewster

well when I left the dealership they had reset the cel but I have only ran it up to 4-5k since because I wasn't sure of hurting it. Should I run a little additive or try to do a seafoam cleaning job? I don't know if you can do the seafoam on the 09-11 cars. Is there a port I can run it through? Thank's. Oh by the way the cel hasn't came back on but the car hasn't seen redline or anything even higher that 6k. The drive home from the dealership is about 35-40 minutes and I drove the car today for about an hour with no light. Think I should do some additives before I open it up or just go for it?

ASH8

Running Seafoam the way Mazda wants it done would do next to nothing to help free up a sticking SSV, as for AP Motor well it is elect/mechanical and does not see any gas or fluids.

What would I do...
Some guys run Seafoam in gas (fuel), I dunno about that one.
I would run a good pre-mix in your gas at a higher ratio, at least 8 OZ, about 3/4 tank of gas..

Run that through your car (by driving it), and then to-wards the low end of this gas tank, take revs up over to redline (hot engine) and see if you get a CEL, or any hesitation.

If you don't get a CEL it may have rectified, may be temporary, much will depend on the pre-mix outcome, IMO it pays to run a minimum of 6 OZ in a 2009 anyway...all the time..I do.

I get the feeling you have been driving long at a low RPM (Below 5000) and not redlining enough.
In other words the SSV is not getting any work out/use...it opens up around 7250 RPM.

I use Amsoil Saber Pro...it is expensive, there are other good 2 synthetic stroke oil pre-mixes out there, Don't use Castor Oil products.

In the end I would go for the SSV Clean, if the above fails, (although I think you would be the first Series 2 here to do this (I think)), yes it is involved, but, you don't have to take motor or LIM out-off...see Jon's DIY.

There is a factory TSB for Cleaning...see the Series 2 TSBs.....Jon's DIY IMO is better, but same principal.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

If you remove the APV motor you can see if it is stuck..the white gear should be easy to turn by hand. If you want to try and free it up if it is stuck...remove the UIM and spray a ton of Seafoam or ATF into the AUX ports and let it sit for a few days...then try and free it up...if that doesn't work you are going to have to do it the hard way. Like Ash said..I think a bit of Pre-mix might help this problem from happening. The other thing that keeps the carbon down is driving the bag off it at the track. I have never had a carbon problem

brewster

I have an update. I took allot of everyones advice and come up with this. First the cel was removed by the dealer. The next time I drove it I ran the rpm's up to 6-6500, second time I drove it I put 7k on the tach, and today it seen 8500 with no cel so far. Now I have some premix and will start that process but for now looks like the help you all gave me was right on the money and for that I thank you, Tony

ASH8

Good to see brewster (Tony), got your PM, your 8 will thank you for the pre-mix, I put in 240 mil per 60 litres gas, sorry, I think that is 7 ounces to 16 gallons.....anyway.

Yes, I thought it may have been a one of sticking SSV and therefore CEL, not saying it won't do it again, but Pre-mix will help in this and other areas of your rotary engine internally.

r-enzyme

iTrader: (1)

Can someone please describe more clearly how to access the APV motor while the engine is in the car?

Sorry for the bump here but I've read the 'Troubleshoot Intake Valves' and 'Remove SSV' threads but neither one really addresses troubleshooting the APV while the engine is still in the car. Jon, I see your pictures in post #16 here but I need a little guidance.

I installed a reman at 105k miles and now at 120k I'm getting a CEL for p2004, APV stuck open. I'm having severe loss of power. I've read multiple people say to drive it hard to loosen the APV but it's almost difficult to drive it hard because it's running so weak.

PeteInLongBeach

I don't see how premix would affect the APVs, as the fuel injectors are downstream of the valves.

My understanding is the SSV opens at 3750 RPM, the APV opens at 6250 RPM, and the VDI opens at 7250 RPM.