3rd transmission on the way? To keep or shed this lemon?
02-28-2011, 09:26 PM
#26
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These days, I consider myself VERY smooth with the gearbox and clutch, performing rev matching (no, not blipping the throttle or heel'n'toe - proper, considered rev matching), up and down the box for both "granny" and "spirited" driving styles. (My RoSPA examiner thought so too, awarding me a Gold pass for my Advanced Driving test last March
).However, the 5th & 6th synchros went at 8,900 miles on my R3; Heck it's not like they get any abuse - they're only selected at typically cruising speeds and relatively low revs (apart from perhaps a 60MPH 2nd to sixth block shift ;-)).
It took Mazda until 12K miles to properly "diagnose", warranty and fix (and break something else and fix that too!).
Now I feel additional resistance when the box in 1st & 2nd, especially when cold. And fear that 3rd is starting to feel decidedly crunchy even with a warm gearbox.
I hear a lot of MX-5 owners have similar problems, and know of one personally on their 3rd gearbox -- with problems [re-]occurring approx every 6K-9K miles!
I see the advice above about clutch assembly examination, and will ask about that if things get decidedly worse!
So -- what's the experience of the S2 "crunchy gearbox" issues like in Oz?
Last edited by seanp; 02-28-2011 at 09:32 PM.
03-01-2011, 05:23 PM
#32
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Just thought I would say I have no issues with mine either. Bought car with 20k miles on it a little over a year ago and now have 26k. I don't understand how you could get a lemon three times, but I guess its possible.
03-01-2011, 08:39 PM
#33
03-03-2011, 06:28 PM
#34
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Really? After 5 years & 55K on my series 1, including many track and activity days, I had NO issues, and would in fact say I was a MUCH MORE aggressive driver, certainly in the earlier years!
These days, I consider myself VERY smooth with the gearbox and clutch, performing rev matching (no, not blipping the throttle or heel'n'toe - proper, considered rev matching), up and down the box for both "granny" and "spirited" driving styles. (My RoSPA examiner thought so too, awarding me a Gold pass for my Advanced Driving test last March ).
However, the 5th & 6th synchros went at 8,900 miles on my R3; Heck it's not like they get any abuse - they're only selected at typically cruising speeds and relatively low revs (apart from perhaps a 60MPH 2nd to sixth block shift ;-)).
It took Mazda until 12K miles to properly "diagnose", warranty and fix (and break something else and fix that too!).
Now I feel additional resistance when the box in 1st & 2nd, especially when cold. And fear that 3rd is starting to feel decidedly crunchy even with a warm gearbox.
I hear a lot of MX-5 owners have similar problems, and know of one personally on their 3rd gearbox -- with problems [re-]occurring approx every 6K-9K miles!
I see the advice above about clutch assembly examination, and will ask about that if things get decidedly worse!
So -- what's the experience of the S2 "crunchy gearbox" issues like in Oz?
These days, I consider myself VERY smooth with the gearbox and clutch, performing rev matching (no, not blipping the throttle or heel'n'toe - proper, considered rev matching), up and down the box for both "granny" and "spirited" driving styles. (My RoSPA examiner thought so too, awarding me a Gold pass for my Advanced Driving test last March
).However, the 5th & 6th synchros went at 8,900 miles on my R3; Heck it's not like they get any abuse - they're only selected at typically cruising speeds and relatively low revs (apart from perhaps a 60MPH 2nd to sixth block shift ;-)).
It took Mazda until 12K miles to properly "diagnose", warranty and fix (and break something else and fix that too!).
Now I feel additional resistance when the box in 1st & 2nd, especially when cold. And fear that 3rd is starting to feel decidedly crunchy even with a warm gearbox.
I hear a lot of MX-5 owners have similar problems, and know of one personally on their 3rd gearbox -- with problems [re-]occurring approx every 6K-9K miles!
I see the advice above about clutch assembly examination, and will ask about that if things get decidedly worse!
So -- what's the experience of the S2 "crunchy gearbox" issues like in Oz?
Once it warms up a bit I'll try adjusting the clutch pedal to see if it helps.
03-03-2011, 06:57 PM
#35
Super Moderator
So -- what's the experience of the S2 "crunchy gearbox" issues like in Oz?
The first S2 GT here (UK and US R3) demonstrator 5th gear went when on a customer demo.
I know there have been some with issues like youself...
But honestly looking at the latest EPC, Mazda have made very few internal changes for S2 box.
With mine and I have an original, I have not had any issues, but perhaps I am lucky because I take it easy when cold, I usually (where I am located) get on a 100 KMH express way (no stopping) and have no need to change gear until I am off it some 20-25 minutes later, by that time my box is warm to hot.
IMO, Changing out the gear fluid is a must...and give it time to get hot.
PLUS, Like any gearbox the more you change up or down the more it wears (no brainer I know), and what "normally" wears out first are the Synchro Rings.
I can only go by what others say, recently Mr Meyer (Meyer Motorsports), who likes and uses the S2 gearbox in his track RX-8, he says it is bullet proof, but the Synchro will/do wear out...he posted this info here in this site a few months back.
I use Redline MT90, and my box appears to like it and Yes, 1 to 2 is a little notchy and stiff.
Just remember as I have said before, ALL these boxes are notchy or nickety, they are not sloppy gated or numb, like many "other" makers use.
The MX-5 and RX-8 are meant to have the "analog" feel.
03-10-2011, 10:41 PM
#36
2009 RX-8 Touring
I started to get a grind going from 4th to 5th above 70mph at 2500 miles on my R3. Told the dealer they said they couldn't get it to happen (at that time I didn't know it was above 70mph when it would do it). Around 6k miles it was grinding with no problems: 4th to 5th..6th to 5th. They replaced 5th and 6ths syncro's, gears and shift forks I believe. The tech said that they were revised part numbers. So far no grinds, 5th and 6th are a lot smother engaging. They are not as notchy as 1-4, also 4th pops out sometimes. Im going to bring that up to them when I'm there again about the wear on the Recaro's.
03-11-2011, 08:46 AM
#37
My 4th gear was also popping out, practically since I bought the car. (2009 Model)
I had it repaired at about 8,000 miles because it got worse and worse.
If you search miata.net the NC miatas have the same problem. There is an adjustment procedure, I tried to do it myself but didnt work for me. Had to take it to the dealer and they replaced some 3rd & 4th gear parts. It is working now but was not happy with the technician that worked on the car. Had to take it back a couple times for him to get it right.
I had it repaired at about 8,000 miles because it got worse and worse.
If you search miata.net the NC miatas have the same problem. There is an adjustment procedure, I tried to do it myself but didnt work for me. Had to take it to the dealer and they replaced some 3rd & 4th gear parts. It is working now but was not happy with the technician that worked on the car. Had to take it back a couple times for him to get it right.
03-11-2011, 01:22 PM
#38
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no problem with my tranny, and I drive her hard.
I think when you need a lot of pressure getting the gear in, youre doing it wrong. the gearbox tells you when its not gotta take the speed and the syncro would just block the gear out.
under normal operation you dont really need to force the shifter in, its more like a gentle push it should slide in.
I shift mine using 3 fingers. thats how light a normal operating transmission should feel like.
I think when you need a lot of pressure getting the gear in, youre doing it wrong. the gearbox tells you when its not gotta take the speed and the syncro would just block the gear out.
under normal operation you dont really need to force the shifter in, its more like a gentle push it should slide in.
I shift mine using 3 fingers. thats how light a normal operating transmission should feel like.
Last edited by jasonrxeight; 03-11-2011 at 01:24 PM.
03-14-2011, 10:40 PM
#39
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My 4th gear was also popping out, practically since I bought the car. (2009 Model)
I had it repaired at about 8,000 miles because it got worse and worse.
If you search miata.net the NC miatas have the same problem. There is an adjustment procedure, I tried to do it myself but didnt work for me. Had to take it to the dealer and they replaced some 3rd & 4th gear parts. It is working now but was not happy with the technician that worked on the car. Had to take it back a couple times for him to get it right.
I had it repaired at about 8,000 miles because it got worse and worse.
If you search miata.net the NC miatas have the same problem. There is an adjustment procedure, I tried to do it myself but didnt work for me. Had to take it to the dealer and they replaced some 3rd & 4th gear parts. It is working now but was not happy with the technician that worked on the car. Had to take it back a couple times for him to get it right.
03-15-2011, 12:30 AM
#40
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no problem with my tranny, and I drive her hard.
I think when you need a lot of pressure getting the gear in, youre doing it wrong. the gearbox tells you when its not gotta take the speed and the syncro would just block the gear out.
under normal operation you dont really need to force the shifter in, its more like a gentle push it should slide in.
I shift mine using 3 fingers. thats how light a normal operating transmission should feel like.
I think when you need a lot of pressure getting the gear in, youre doing it wrong. the gearbox tells you when its not gotta take the speed and the syncro would just block the gear out.
under normal operation you dont really need to force the shifter in, its more like a gentle push it should slide in.
I shift mine using 3 fingers. thats how light a normal operating transmission should feel like.
Thats what I was taught with my first car and I have never had transmission trouble in any car I have owned since. A light touch when shifting and you wont be forcing anything and shouldn't be having an issues come up.
03-15-2011, 06:31 AM
#41
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Your problem is the mechanic. Most shops have a mechanic that is dedicated to transmissions. The shifting mechanism on the 09/10 trans is often installed incorrectly. This transmission is also the same case as the Ford Ranger (with a different bell housing obviously). How do I know this? Because two of my race crew rebuild transmissions for both Mazda and Ford and we've had this exact issue (one time and only one time).
Contact me if you need my guys to give you love. It will cost you more in shipping than the cost to crack her open and set it up properly. No new parts required.
Eric Meyer
Indianapolis, IN
Owner of 4 09/10 manual trans that have all been cracked open.
Contact me if you need my guys to give you love. It will cost you more in shipping than the cost to crack her open and set it up properly. No new parts required.
Eric Meyer
Indianapolis, IN
Owner of 4 09/10 manual trans that have all been cracked open.
Hey guys, I have been browsing the forum since I bought a new 2009 rx-8 in August of '09, but obviously this is my first post. I am hoping to get some opinions on my transmission issues because I love the rx-8 but these repairs are getting ridiculous.
The first problem with the transmission arose at about 6000 miles. When shifting into 5th gear, it would grind pretty bad about the half the time. When I took my car in, they tore the transmission down and decided to replace some synchros and a few other things. They put it back together, but before placing it in the car, decided to order more parts as it was still not shifting right. After about 3 weeks from the initial day in the shop, I was able to pick up my car.
When I got in my car to leave the shop, I had to struggle for about 10 seconds to get into 1st gear. Once moving, I found that from 1st-4th gear, at least two of the gears would be nearly impossible to engage at a given time. I returned the car and began another waiting game. They tore it down for the third time and said nothing appeared wrong. Mazda authorized a remanufactured transmission be installed though since the problem could not be found. I was under the impression it was a brand new transmission though, stupid me. Anyways, Once the car was returned with the new transmission, I noticed immediately that shifting into 2nd gear at any speed above 20 mph would produce a very strong shudder throughout the car.
Despite the shudder, I drove the car for a few months since I could baby 2nd gear and I couldnt stand the thought of taking it back to the shop immediately after being there for over a month.
Now the car has about 10,000 miles and is at the shop getting the 2nd transmission torn down for investigation. Worst off, the dealer mentioned that he is fighting to make sure it is covered under warranty and not blamed on abuse. That got me real angry, I have never raced, tracked, autocrossed my car or anything. I occasionally hit 9000k but my shifts are smooth and I don't abuse it in any way!
So, based on what I have read about the PA lemon law, I have met the requirements. I just need to decide whether to contact a lawyer and initiate the process. I know rx-8s are not known for transmission problems so I am very suspicious of my car and the problems it has and may continue to have!
If you made it this far, thanks for reading, please share any opinions or suggestions. Even flame me for driving 3500 miles with a bum 2nd gear, I can handle it.
The first problem with the transmission arose at about 6000 miles. When shifting into 5th gear, it would grind pretty bad about the half the time. When I took my car in, they tore the transmission down and decided to replace some synchros and a few other things. They put it back together, but before placing it in the car, decided to order more parts as it was still not shifting right. After about 3 weeks from the initial day in the shop, I was able to pick up my car.
When I got in my car to leave the shop, I had to struggle for about 10 seconds to get into 1st gear. Once moving, I found that from 1st-4th gear, at least two of the gears would be nearly impossible to engage at a given time. I returned the car and began another waiting game. They tore it down for the third time and said nothing appeared wrong. Mazda authorized a remanufactured transmission be installed though since the problem could not be found. I was under the impression it was a brand new transmission though, stupid me. Anyways, Once the car was returned with the new transmission, I noticed immediately that shifting into 2nd gear at any speed above 20 mph would produce a very strong shudder throughout the car.
Despite the shudder, I drove the car for a few months since I could baby 2nd gear and I couldnt stand the thought of taking it back to the shop immediately after being there for over a month.
Now the car has about 10,000 miles and is at the shop getting the 2nd transmission torn down for investigation. Worst off, the dealer mentioned that he is fighting to make sure it is covered under warranty and not blamed on abuse. That got me real angry, I have never raced, tracked, autocrossed my car or anything. I occasionally hit 9000k but my shifts are smooth and I don't abuse it in any way!
So, based on what I have read about the PA lemon law, I have met the requirements. I just need to decide whether to contact a lawyer and initiate the process. I know rx-8s are not known for transmission problems so I am very suspicious of my car and the problems it has and may continue to have!
If you made it this far, thanks for reading, please share any opinions or suggestions. Even flame me for driving 3500 miles with a bum 2nd gear, I can handle it.
03-15-2011, 06:32 AM
#42
Registered
Same transmission except for a few very minor differences.
My 4th gear was also popping out, practically since I bought the car. (2009 Model)
I had it repaired at about 8,000 miles because it got worse and worse.
If you search miata.net the NC miatas have the same problem. There is an adjustment procedure, I tried to do it myself but didnt work for me. Had to take it to the dealer and they replaced some 3rd & 4th gear parts. It is working now but was not happy with the technician that worked on the car. Had to take it back a couple times for him to get it right.
I had it repaired at about 8,000 miles because it got worse and worse.
If you search miata.net the NC miatas have the same problem. There is an adjustment procedure, I tried to do it myself but didnt work for me. Had to take it to the dealer and they replaced some 3rd & 4th gear parts. It is working now but was not happy with the technician that worked on the car. Had to take it back a couple times for him to get it right.
03-15-2011, 04:18 PM
#43
Super Moderator
OP, I can supply you the Mazda Transmission Workshop Manual P66M–D.
It is in PDF, Updated and 64 pages, print it off and take it to your dealer.
There are many re-installation Cautions and Tips, too many to mention here.
P66M-D Transmission (design) is used in ALL series 2 (2009) and 2005 NC MX-5.
It is in PDF, Updated and 64 pages, print it off and take it to your dealer.
There are many re-installation Cautions and Tips, too many to mention here.
P66M-D Transmission (design) is used in ALL series 2 (2009) and 2005 NC MX-5.
03-19-2011, 10:02 PM
#45
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I'm experiencing a similar problem with my transmission. First is hard to engage but when the car is off, everything shifts smoothly. Dealer said clutch pedal is good to go (go figure, right?) On my third transmission, clutch and flywheel is new and only mods are rp short shifter and synchro saver. I'm wondering if it could be the clutch pedal bracket or the fluid. Clutch is centerforce dual friction btw with stock flywheel if that matters.
Also first is only hard to engage from a dead stop. Other than that the car shifts great.
Also first is only hard to engage from a dead stop. Other than that the car shifts great.
03-23-2011, 06:17 PM
#46
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Frustrated with 4th gear as well...
OP, I can supply you the Mazda Transmission Workshop Manual P66M–D.
It is in PDF, Updated and 64 pages, print it off and take it to your dealer.
There are many re-installation Cautions and Tips, too many to mention here.
P66M-D Transmission (design) is used in ALL series 2 (2009) and 2005 NC MX-5.
It is in PDF, Updated and 64 pages, print it off and take it to your dealer.
There are many re-installation Cautions and Tips, too many to mention here.
P66M-D Transmission (design) is used in ALL series 2 (2009) and 2005 NC MX-5.
It's been to the dealer once before for this issue and told me it was a misalignment between the transmission and motor. Supposedly fixed it, but the problem is still there.
Thanks to ASH8, I brought to Wayne Mazda in NJ a copy of the P66M-D manual and I printed out the adjustment procedure from miata.net. The service advisor seemed very receptive and even brought the tech out who admitted they do not teach about the adjustments in their training. They took the printed out adjustment procedure and I left the dealer feeling pretty good.
A different service advisor called me today and stated they had fixed the problem, which was the transmission mount. They supposedly checked the eccentric shaft nut and it was tight. Being suspicious that they didn't actually go through the adjustment procedure (even though the nut is tight, it could still be adjusted incorrectly), I asked if they compared the distances from the flats on the shifter in 3rd and 4th, and received a lukewarm response that they checked everything.
They also supposedly looked at the shifter assembly and everything looked correct.
I am extremely skeptical that this would have solved the problem and won't know until I pick the car up tomorrow.
If there was a problem with an adjustment on a transmission mount, wouldn't I have an engagement issue with more gears than just 4th?
03-23-2011, 06:31 PM
#47
The adjustment procedure is here in case any one else needs it.
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=237737
I tried to do it myself and adjusted the flats just like Jason says but it still popped out. I then tried to adjust the 4th gear even further against the back of the transmission but that did not work either. Took it to the dealer, the mechanic changed some parts. Reinstalled it, still popped out, then took it back out and did some kind of adjustment again for the 3rd/4th and now it seems ok.
I hope yours is ok. My experience with the dealership mechanic was very poor. That is why I tried to do the procedure myself the first time. Wish they just gave me a new transmission sometimes.
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=237737
I tried to do it myself and adjusted the flats just like Jason says but it still popped out. I then tried to adjust the 4th gear even further against the back of the transmission but that did not work either. Took it to the dealer, the mechanic changed some parts. Reinstalled it, still popped out, then took it back out and did some kind of adjustment again for the 3rd/4th and now it seems ok.
I hope yours is ok. My experience with the dealership mechanic was very poor. That is why I tried to do the procedure myself the first time. Wish they just gave me a new transmission sometimes.
03-23-2011, 09:41 PM
#48
Super Moderator
Some of Jason's ideas are very good and some are slightly outdated to his appreciated and experience written in 2007.
Mazda have since done some upgrades to ALL 09 RX-8 transmissions since his advise, whether Mazda changes "helped" is debatable.
Mazda Europe Racing MX-5's renew the original 3-4th Black Plastic Square Bush with a Brass Copy, not a round aluminum one.
When racing you use 3-4 more than any other gear.
Mazda have since done some upgrades to ALL 09 RX-8 transmissions since his advise, whether Mazda changes "helped" is debatable.
Mazda Europe Racing MX-5's renew the original 3-4th Black Plastic Square Bush with a Brass Copy, not a round aluminum one.
When racing you use 3-4 more than any other gear.
Last edited by ASH8; 03-23-2011 at 09:44 PM.
03-23-2011, 09:50 PM
#49
Super Moderator
I also have the 4th gear intermittent pop-out issue on my 2009 Series II with about 9,000 miles.
It's been to the dealer once before for this issue and told me it was a misalignment between the transmission and motor. Supposedly fixed it, but the problem is still there.
Thanks to ASH8, I brought to Wayne Mazda in NJ a copy of the P66M-D manual and I printed out the adjustment procedure from miata.net. The service advisor seemed very receptive and even brought the tech out who admitted they do not teach about the adjustments in their training. They took the printed out adjustment procedure and I left the dealer feeling pretty good.
A different service advisor called me today and stated they had fixed the problem, which was the transmission mount. They supposedly checked the eccentric shaft nut and it was tight. Being suspicious that they didn't actually go through the adjustment procedure (even though the nut is tight, it could still be adjusted incorrectly), I asked if they compared the distances from the flats on the shifter in 3rd and 4th, and received a lukewarm response that they checked everything.
They also supposedly looked at the shifter assembly and everything looked correct.
I am extremely skeptical that this would have solved the problem and won't know until I pick the car up tomorrow.
If there was a problem with an adjustment on a transmission mount, wouldn't I have an engagement issue with more gears than just 4th?
It's been to the dealer once before for this issue and told me it was a misalignment between the transmission and motor. Supposedly fixed it, but the problem is still there.
Thanks to ASH8, I brought to Wayne Mazda in NJ a copy of the P66M-D manual and I printed out the adjustment procedure from miata.net. The service advisor seemed very receptive and even brought the tech out who admitted they do not teach about the adjustments in their training. They took the printed out adjustment procedure and I left the dealer feeling pretty good.
A different service advisor called me today and stated they had fixed the problem, which was the transmission mount. They supposedly checked the eccentric shaft nut and it was tight. Being suspicious that they didn't actually go through the adjustment procedure (even though the nut is tight, it could still be adjusted incorrectly), I asked if they compared the distances from the flats on the shifter in 3rd and 4th, and received a lukewarm response that they checked everything.
They also supposedly looked at the shifter assembly and everything looked correct.
I am extremely skeptical that this would have solved the problem and won't know until I pick the car up tomorrow.
If there was a problem with an adjustment on a transmission mount, wouldn't I have an engagement issue with more gears than just 4th?
What is the tranny like now?
03-23-2011, 09:59 PM
#50
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I won't know until tomorrow at the earliest. It's currently snowing outside and I'm in no rush to pick up the car from the dealership. All I know is that if the transmission still pops out of 4th, I'm making a few calls to both Mazda North America as well as my lawyer.