3rd transmission on the way? To keep or shed this lemon?
06-09-2010, 03:50 PM
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3rd transmission on the way? To keep or shed this lemon?
Hey guys, I have been browsing the forum since I bought a new 2009 rx-8 in August of '09, but obviously this is my first post. I am hoping to get some opinions on my transmission issues because I love the rx-8 but these repairs are getting ridiculous.
The first problem with the transmission arose at about 6000 miles. When shifting into 5th gear, it would grind pretty bad about the half the time. When I took my car in, they tore the transmission down and decided to replace some synchros and a few other things. They put it back together, but before placing it in the car, decided to order more parts as it was still not shifting right. After about 3 weeks from the initial day in the shop, I was able to pick up my car.
When I got in my car to leave the shop, I had to struggle for about 10 seconds to get into 1st gear. Once moving, I found that from 1st-4th gear, at least two of the gears would be nearly impossible to engage at a given time. I returned the car and began another waiting game. They tore it down for the third time and said nothing appeared wrong. Mazda authorized a remanufactured transmission be installed though since the problem could not be found. I was under the impression it was a brand new transmission though, stupid me. Anyways, Once the car was returned with the new transmission, I noticed immediately that shifting into 2nd gear at any speed above 20 mph would produce a very strong shudder throughout the car.
Despite the shudder, I drove the car for a few months since I could baby 2nd gear and I couldnt stand the thought of taking it back to the shop immediately after being there for over a month.
Now the car has about 10,000 miles and is at the shop getting the 2nd transmission torn down for investigation. Worst off, the dealer mentioned that he is fighting to make sure it is covered under warranty and not blamed on abuse. That got me real angry, I have never raced, tracked, autocrossed my car or anything. I occasionally hit 9000k but my shifts are smooth and I don't abuse it in any way!
So, based on what I have read about the PA lemon law, I have met the requirements. I just need to decide whether to contact a lawyer and initiate the process. I know rx-8s are not known for transmission problems so I am very suspicious of my car and the problems it has and may continue to have!
If you made it this far, thanks for reading, please share any opinions or suggestions. Even flame me for driving 3500 miles with a bum 2nd gear, I can handle it.
The first problem with the transmission arose at about 6000 miles. When shifting into 5th gear, it would grind pretty bad about the half the time. When I took my car in, they tore the transmission down and decided to replace some synchros and a few other things. They put it back together, but before placing it in the car, decided to order more parts as it was still not shifting right. After about 3 weeks from the initial day in the shop, I was able to pick up my car.
When I got in my car to leave the shop, I had to struggle for about 10 seconds to get into 1st gear. Once moving, I found that from 1st-4th gear, at least two of the gears would be nearly impossible to engage at a given time. I returned the car and began another waiting game. They tore it down for the third time and said nothing appeared wrong. Mazda authorized a remanufactured transmission be installed though since the problem could not be found. I was under the impression it was a brand new transmission though, stupid me. Anyways, Once the car was returned with the new transmission, I noticed immediately that shifting into 2nd gear at any speed above 20 mph would produce a very strong shudder throughout the car.
Despite the shudder, I drove the car for a few months since I could baby 2nd gear and I couldnt stand the thought of taking it back to the shop immediately after being there for over a month.
Now the car has about 10,000 miles and is at the shop getting the 2nd transmission torn down for investigation. Worst off, the dealer mentioned that he is fighting to make sure it is covered under warranty and not blamed on abuse. That got me real angry, I have never raced, tracked, autocrossed my car or anything. I occasionally hit 9000k but my shifts are smooth and I don't abuse it in any way!
So, based on what I have read about the PA lemon law, I have met the requirements. I just need to decide whether to contact a lawyer and initiate the process. I know rx-8s are not known for transmission problems so I am very suspicious of my car and the problems it has and may continue to have!
If you made it this far, thanks for reading, please share any opinions or suggestions. Even flame me for driving 3500 miles with a bum 2nd gear, I can handle it.
06-09-2010, 04:13 PM
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My first reaction is that the issue isn't the transmission, because all of this certainly should have addressed it by now. I.e., They aren't addressing the problems with the transmission repairs and replacements because it isn't at that point.
Have they looked at the clutch, flywheel, pedal assembly at all (including engagement points, fluid lines, springs and bearings, etc...)? Or the shifter itself?
Yeah, I know the reaction is that it shouldn't be there if it is an issue with specific gears, but either the mechanics at the dealer aren't good enough to see the problem or the problem isn't with the transmission. Those are the only 2 options.
Have they looked at the clutch, flywheel, pedal assembly at all (including engagement points, fluid lines, springs and bearings, etc...)? Or the shifter itself?
Yeah, I know the reaction is that it shouldn't be there if it is an issue with specific gears, but either the mechanics at the dealer aren't good enough to see the problem or the problem isn't with the transmission. Those are the only 2 options.
06-10-2010, 09:42 AM
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I started to get a grind going from 4th to 5th above 70mph at 2500 miles on my R3. Told the dealer they said they couldn't get it to happen (at that time I didn't know it was above 70mph when it would do it). Around 6k miles it was grinding with no problems: 4th to 5th..6th to 5th. They replaced 5th and 6ths syncro's, gears and shift forks I believe. The tech said that they were revised part numbers. So far no grinds, 5th and 6th are a lot smother engaging. They are not as notchy as 1-4, also 4th pops out sometimes. Im going to bring that up to them when I'm there again about the wear on the Recaro's.
06-12-2010, 08:01 PM
#7
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06-12-2010, 08:21 PM
#8
I have driven the **** out of my transmission.....
I have 30+ hard track days.....and the thing is smoother than the day I bought it...
I have 2 spares.....and I think that is why the first one is still stellar
I also think that user error is a big part of this issue....
That and a clutch pedal that moves around like a piece of wet spaghetti
I have 30+ hard track days.....and the thing is smoother than the day I bought it...
I have 2 spares.....and I think that is why the first one is still stellar
I also think that user error is a big part of this issue....
That and a clutch pedal that moves around like a piece of wet spaghetti
06-13-2010, 11:52 AM
#9
The driveline "shudder" and gear-grinding descriptions are symptoms of a clutch that is not fully disengaging. When the clutch does not fully disengage, the engine torque loads the synchros and they start to grind. The driveline shuddering (or sometimes a "thud" sound) during shifting is a milder form of this same problem.
The reason for the incomplete clutch disengagement is because the clutch pedal spot welds flex and disallow the full stroke of the clutch hydraulic actuating system.
The clutch pedals on all RX-8s are the same and they are a known failure point, which is why we at BHR strongly encourage EVERYONE to either have their pedals reinforcement-welded or bracketed (both, if you can afford it).
To perform this welding will eliminate the transmission problems you are having and, when this solves your problem, you can tell Mazda BHR says "You are welcome" as we discovered and have been on top of this issue for about 2 years (maybe longer, I can't remember).
Had Mazda listened to us about the RX-8 they would have saved a SHITLOAD of money for themselves by not having to replace transmissions (and cat-pipes, too) all day long.
The reason for the incomplete clutch disengagement is because the clutch pedal spot welds flex and disallow the full stroke of the clutch hydraulic actuating system.
The clutch pedals on all RX-8s are the same and they are a known failure point, which is why we at BHR strongly encourage EVERYONE to either have their pedals reinforcement-welded or bracketed (both, if you can afford it).
To perform this welding will eliminate the transmission problems you are having and, when this solves your problem, you can tell Mazda BHR says "You are welcome" as we discovered and have been on top of this issue for about 2 years (maybe longer, I can't remember).
Had Mazda listened to us about the RX-8 they would have saved a SHITLOAD of money for themselves by not having to replace transmissions (and cat-pipes, too) all day long.
Last edited by Charles R. Hill; 06-13-2010 at 11:55 AM.
06-13-2010, 01:53 PM
#10
The driveline "shudder" and gear-grinding descriptions are symptoms of a clutch that is not fully disengaging. When the clutch does not fully disengage, the engine torque loads the synchros and they start to grind. The driveline shuddering (or sometimes a "thud" sound) during shifting is a milder form of this same problem.
The reason for the incomplete clutch disengagement is because the clutch pedal spot welds flex and disallow the full stroke of the clutch hydraulic actuating system.
The clutch pedals on all RX-8s are the same and they are a known failure point, which is why we at BHR strongly encourage EVERYONE to either have their pedals reinforcement-welded or bracketed (both, if you can afford it).
To perform this welding will eliminate the transmission problems you are having and, when this solves your problem, you can tell Mazda BHR says "You are welcome" as we discovered and have been on top of this issue for about 2 years (maybe longer, I can't remember).
The reason for the incomplete clutch disengagement is because the clutch pedal spot welds flex and disallow the full stroke of the clutch hydraulic actuating system.
The clutch pedals on all RX-8s are the same and they are a known failure point, which is why we at BHR strongly encourage EVERYONE to either have their pedals reinforcement-welded or bracketed (both, if you can afford it).
To perform this welding will eliminate the transmission problems you are having and, when this solves your problem, you can tell Mazda BHR says "You are welcome" as we discovered and have been on top of this issue for about 2 years (maybe longer, I can't remember).
Keep in mind that a clutch that does not fully disengage won't last very long. Mine lasted about the life of the transmission but was more than cooked. It wasn't worth keeping it on the car.
How Charles saved the day at the time is another story
06-13-2010, 02:03 PM
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Do we know for sure that the Series II have the same weakness with the clutch pedal? And if so, what are the details for the "fix"?
Edit: I saw the RR bracket. Will this fit on the 09s? Link:
http://raceroots.com/index.php/produ...cessories.html
Edit: I saw the RR bracket. Will this fit on the 09s? Link:
http://raceroots.com/index.php/produ...cessories.html
Last edited by kster; 06-13-2010 at 02:29 PM.
06-13-2010, 02:39 PM
#12
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Right Hand Drive Clutch Bracket is a different bracket (manufactured same principal).
The weird thing is there has not been the epidemic numbers of bracket failures, I know of one, basically worn out I think.
Which perhaps, perhaps has more to do with vehicle numbers, but then again, have not heard of the issue in UK.
MA have not seen any pedal brackages.....yet?
AU and UK numbers of Series II RX-8's are so low no real or any pattern of issues can be seen.
However, I know in the UK the NC MX-5 6 speed has had a few owners with the 5th 6th gear "grind" at very low mileage. Starting in 2005-2006 to 2010.
I still put this one down more to driver use.
Bulkhead/Firewall Panel FLEX (at Clutch Master-cylinder), this panel has been factory changed 4 times, original, August 20th 2004 and August 8th 2007 and Series II RX-8.
The weird thing is there has not been the epidemic numbers of bracket failures, I know of one, basically worn out I think.
Which perhaps, perhaps has more to do with vehicle numbers, but then again, have not heard of the issue in UK.
MA have not seen any pedal brackages.....yet?
AU and UK numbers of Series II RX-8's are so low no real or any pattern of issues can be seen.
However, I know in the UK the NC MX-5 6 speed has had a few owners with the 5th 6th gear "grind" at very low mileage. Starting in 2005-2006 to 2010.
I still put this one down more to driver use.
Bulkhead/Firewall Panel FLEX (at Clutch Master-cylinder), this panel has been factory changed 4 times, original, August 20th 2004 and August 8th 2007 and Series II RX-8.
Last edited by ASH8; 06-13-2010 at 03:00 PM.
06-13-2010, 04:56 PM
#14
Right Hand Drive Clutch Bracket is a different bracket (manufactured same principal).
The weird thing is there has not been the epidemic numbers of bracket failures, I know of one, basically worn out I think.
Which perhaps, perhaps has more to do with vehicle numbers, but then again, have not heard of the issue in UK.
MA have not seen any pedal brackages.....yet?
.
The weird thing is there has not been the epidemic numbers of bracket failures, I know of one, basically worn out I think.
Which perhaps, perhaps has more to do with vehicle numbers, but then again, have not heard of the issue in UK.
MA have not seen any pedal brackages.....yet?
.
06-13-2010, 10:53 PM
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06-14-2010, 08:06 PM
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Thank you for the suggestions so far guys. Unfortunately, the dealer has not been receptive to any suggestions and insists it is only a problem with the multiple transmissions. The 3rd is on order and should be in by Friday.
As for the drivers use causing any problems, I can assure that is not the case. This is my 5th stick shift car and have never had any problems with the other car's gearboxes. Also, the day the second transmission was installed, the shuddering was apparent. Upon inspection, the dealer noticed the shudder immediately. Also, the car was never raced or shifted hard, the clutch was never ridden during driving, or anything that may cause unusual wear or failure. These problems fall entirely on the car and its faulty parts.
Even after the 3rd transmission, I still need to decide if I want to undergo the hassle of getting a Mazda buyback under the lemon law. With days in the shop approaching 45 after this repair and only getting a Remanufactured transmission replacement, I am getting annoyed with these issues. Decisions decisions
As for the drivers use causing any problems, I can assure that is not the case. This is my 5th stick shift car and have never had any problems with the other car's gearboxes. Also, the day the second transmission was installed, the shuddering was apparent. Upon inspection, the dealer noticed the shudder immediately. Also, the car was never raced or shifted hard, the clutch was never ridden during driving, or anything that may cause unusual wear or failure. These problems fall entirely on the car and its faulty parts.
Even after the 3rd transmission, I still need to decide if I want to undergo the hassle of getting a Mazda buyback under the lemon law. With days in the shop approaching 45 after this repair and only getting a Remanufactured transmission replacement, I am getting annoyed with these issues. Decisions decisions
06-14-2010, 08:36 PM
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The fact that is re-occuring problems across multiple transmissions means it isn't the transmission. I'd contact MNAO if this transmission doesn't fix it... get the dealer to examine other parts suggested here.
06-14-2010, 11:59 PM
#21
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sjc5059
Inspection of the Flywheel and or PP face can tell many a story on "How" you drive your car and "how" it's gearbox may be treated...
And I am not suggesting anything, BUT, many Techs (Mechanics) don't even take the Clutch Assembly off to inspect the parts., they just remove the box, fix it and put it back when all the time the Flywheel and Pressure plate face can be lit up like a Rainbow from getting too hot from clutch plate slipping at high RPM, Driver Abuse, Riding the Clutch Pedal, etc, etc...again not suggesting anything about your driving style or use of your car.
Generally though there are tell tail signs like excessive Clutch Plate dust inside bell housing which should send out alarm bells to the Tech.
I really don't think the clutch bracket or slave cylinder would be an issue on such a low mileage S2??
The DEALER should be investigang all these things ...
06-15-2010, 04:50 AM
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for some reason the SII has some issues with the trans and synchrons. I am having a same issue with my SI. However I managed to rack the 5th gear on the track with a miss-shift.
Still there are several SII with similar issues. In EU the transmission of the SII are the old MX5's.
I guess thats the problem.
Still there are several SII with similar issues. In EU the transmission of the SII are the old MX5's.
I guess thats the problem.
06-15-2010, 02:34 PM
#23
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for some reason the SII has some issues with the trans and synchrons. I am having a same issue with my SI. However I managed to rack the 5th gear on the track with a miss-shift.
Still there are several SII with similar issues. In EU the transmission of the SII are the old MX5's.
I guess thats the problem.
Still there are several SII with similar issues. In EU the transmission of the SII are the old MX5's.
I guess thats the problem.
S2 has the new MX-5 gear box, the old S1 had the old MX-5 gearbox.
