paimon.soror

iTrader: (15)

So you are going back in time?

v3rlon

ROFL...oops.
While I WAS considering ordering a flux capictor from http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=index , I have decided to put that off for a bit. I am now moving said date to AUGUST 11, 2011.

Thanks for catching that one.

RX8R3Rod

well done! thanks for sharing this with us!!

Docj78

Holding my breath...

ganseg

iTrader: (5)

This is awesome! I did similar with a RB tune and a straight thru midpipe. You may want to make allowances for more than one revision to your software.

Chibana

Excited to see how it goes.

bcdjudo7

Ok, first of all .... tried the Greddy E manage ULTIMATE , didn't work , unit won't work with the cars sensors. You'd have to get all new sensors probably from Greddy if they even make them. I didn't even check because it wasn't something i was willing to do. Vivid Racing's site will say it's a fit for the series 2, but Greddy's site will say it is not. On another note, Don't ever buy anything from Vivid, ******* Charge you 35 % on a restocking fee to return something when their God damn site says that the F'n thing will work with the car.

So, talked to Dynotronics .... getting my car some dyno pulls this weekend and sending him the info and ecu. Possibly thinking about getting tuned for a nos system, but at the very least a custom tune for the mods i have now. Looking forward to seeing how this turns out .

v3rlon

Initial dyno: done
Dynotronics Tuning: Done
Second Dyno: Pending. I want to get it back on the same dyno at the same time of day so as to minimize any error. That is proving to be a bit trickier than anything. Weather around here is pretty consistent, so if I can get in at close to the same time everything should be nearly identical (@#$! hot).

However, I can tell you that the dyno I keep in my wallet likes it a lot. Of course, that is no scientific measurement, but the difference in immediately apparent at the low end. Why I have the second dyno, I will post it. SII guys might want to start budgeting for this.

Riley Craven

iTrader: (1)

Honestly, I was really excited about this, right up until people that actually know anything about tuning started turning up and calling BS (since I know literally nothing about tuning). I'm not sure your results are going to convince me considering how new your forum name is. If one of the more long time members from the SA or Austin crews could vouch for your existence, (aka they know you and that you are legit), things might be different. My motto is always "trust, but verify".

v3rlon

You're doing a crappy job with your motto then. Age of forum name is no form of verification. Using that logic, long term politicians would be less likely to lie than new ones. I would bet that for $500, I could BUY an older forum name from someone who sold there car, if I were just wanting to falsify data. You're in Fort Worth. Take a road trip down 35, and I'll show you the car. THAT is verification.

And I don't know about you...but if I saw someone claiming they had their 2010 RX8 since 2006 so they could be around long enough to "be legit," I might be more skeptical of them :P

I just got the car. Still have paper plates on it. If you think that somehow means that an independent dyno run is going to be less accurate on my car, I can't help you. If you think I am going to go through all the trouble of photoshoping a dyno sheet, you're deluding yourself. There is no "vast piston conspiracy" out to make Rotaries look bad, and Dynotronics could have done this about a bazillion ways before I came along. Hell, why would I bother with the delay for the second dyno if I just wanted to fake the results?

For the record, America Racing Tech out of Buda, Texas is doing the dyno runs. They build 240mph Vipers and have a garage littered with exotics well out of my price range.

Now, I have the second dyno, but the tech forgot to put the torque info on the printout. I was fighting a nasty fever, and didn't notice until I was well away from the shop. They said they will email me the full data this Monday. If those results are good enough for you -- fine. If they are not -- also fine. I am not making you buy it. I am merely providing the data. If you want more than that, repeat the test for yourself. You can drive down to New Braunfels, too.

RX8R3Rod

Well, I for one am very much looking forward to seeing the data, and I'm grateful that someone has been brave enough to give the tune a try, rather than just talk about it as a lot of us seem to be doing just now (and I include myself in this).

Let's not forget that Amemiya and Knightsports (both very credible rotary tuners, and in Amemiya's case arguably the most credible) have already got some very good results from S2 tuning.

I have seen some - what I interpreted as - sniggering (though I could be wrong about that and apologies if I am) about Amemiya putting stickers on things like go-faster stripes but they have the dyno results to show getting on for 270 rwhp from a normally aspirated S2 - albeit it's pretty costly getting that level of performance.

And Pettits, as I understand it, are pretty close to finalising theirs, too. For info., talking with the Pettit guys they have said that the S2 tune is in fact significantly more complex than the S1, both in terms of the parameters and their interdependencies, and the amount of effort Mazda has made to stop people messing around with the settings via reflashes!

This suggests to me several things:

1. that the S2 tune is clearly not virtually 'exactly the same' as the S1 as I have read several times on here, and that companies that are willing to put in the time and effort to deliver S2 tunes should be encouraged and supported, given the relatively small number of S2's around.
2. that some, and perhaps a good number, of the S1 tunes have ended up costing Mazda money fixing knackered engines (else why make a lot more effort - which costs Mazda valuable time and resources - to stop people playing around with the set-ups?)
3. it's important that the tune is 'right', both in terms of extra power but also engine longevity. And I'm guessing that this is why it is taking reputable companies a long time to get S2 tunes to market, and why some tuners have given up or decided not to bother.

So very much looking forward to seeing the data, and thanks for sharing it with us!

Riley Craven

iTrader: (1)

I think you've taken this a bit further than it was intended. I am being cautious, which is different than attacking you personally. You are correct that age of forum name is no verification, which is why I asked if you knew anyone in the SA or Austin crews. The age was simply a red flag, nothing more, nothing less.

As for your second argument, I've owned two RX8's. A 2005, and since this January a 2009. I like the RX8 platform because it fits my needs and wants for the right price. I'll probably own one for as long as they make a car like it or I can buy one used with low millage.

As for your third, it wouldn't be hard for someone that worked for Dynotronics to fake reports like that. They have the equipment and access to cars. Point being is that I have no way to verify if that's the case here (short of wasting money to come meet you). But again, you're putting words into my mouth here, because if you looked at my original post I didn't bring any of what your saying. Merely, that you were too new to the forum to trust without some other form of verification.

As to the reason for my caution, I work in IT as a Sys Admin. I'm practically trained to be paranoid, especially considering the weakest link in any computer system is going to be the human (aka social engineering).

v3rlon

I understand your paranoia...just don't let it drive you beyond reason

If Dynotronics wanted to fake it, they could do better than me for it, and avoid all of this.

Its not like there are untold billions of dollrs in the SII mod market (sadly). A few thousand dollars at the cost of reputation in a relatively small community is not a good move (then again, not everyone makes good moves).

I can tell you for certain, however, that there is no one from RX8 club that can vouch for me.
The only other member of this forum I have ever met is the guy at Dynotronics, and I do not know any other RX8 owners at all. So that won't be happening, sorry.

Assuming A.R.T delivers as promised, I'll have the dyno numbers up tomorrow. I am still in contact with Dynotronics over this whole thing. This is costing me money out of my pocket, and it is the best that I can offer for you. I can't help how other people's schedules/situations/finances did not allow them to do the same. I am frankly shocked as an engineer at how few examples there are of "before and after dyno sheets." I would expect someone to be all over this.

If I were selling performance parts, I would build meets around it. Come in on RX8 Club day and we'll give you 15% off of (whatever). You tell us your performance mods and we run / post before and after dynos. The listed mods needed for cases like intake/exhaust where other components in the chain could have an impact. It wouldn't take a terribly long time to have a nice library to show exactly what you had to offer.

Instead, I recall 1 (ONE!) article in a magazine where they did something like this to a Mustang. Frustrating I tell you.

Riley Craven

iTrader: (1)

Well, I had no cause for concern up until Mazdamanaic showed up and started posting that what these guys were saying they can do seemed to be a bit beyond reality. Given his reputation on this forum, you can see why I would all of sudden get cautious when Dynotronics didn't exactly offer a stellar argument or reasoning for their claims other than "give us a car to prove it". That being said, I'm at least curious to see what your results were.

Edit:
Oh, you should work on that! One of the cornerstones of this club is community! the DFW and SA crew are very active and friendly people. We get together once a year at the state meet (usually in April).

bcdjudo7

Ok .... just put my series 2 on the dyno this past weekend .... now sending my ECU to Dynotronics to have tuned. When i get it back gonna throw it back on the dyno and post both dynos. Hopefully , this will yield good results ... because their doesn't seem to be any other options. I'm excited to see how it goes , though !

After i get this dyno read i'm going to add Nitro, 55 shot, will do another dyno after that. Not sure if i'll get the nitro in before summers over but going to try.

v3rlon

Ok, I promised dynos today, and I am delivering. I am NOT happy about doing so.

I still do not have the full sheets from A.R.T (the guys doing the dyno runs). I am posting the basic HP with conditions.

Allow me to state ahead of time that I personally believe there is some error here. The time to wrap the car in 3rd gear from 1500 to 7000 RPM has changed. I can consistently do this on a level road in about 17.4 seconds with a full tank of gas. Before, it was more like 18 and change. Also, the car is able to break the back tires free more easily than before. Since this is an automatic, there isn't a lot of math to this. Push the brakes down, push the gas down, release the brakes. It aint rocket science.

As I mentioned before, the car flat feels noticably quicker.

My suspicion is that the AC was on for the second run, but I cannot claim that with certainty. As I mentioned earlier, I was feeling ill at the time and certainly wasn't checking everything as carefully as I could.

This bothers me enough that I am going back for ANOTHER dyno to double check the results.

AS you can probably guess, the results are not amazing. The picture below shows 4 separate runs. This is going to 7500 RPM.
Run 1 is in 4th gear Stock
Run 2 is in 3rd gear Stock
Run 4 is in 4th gear with tuning
Run 5 is in 3rd gear with tuning

I am continuing to work with dynotronics to better understand what has happened here, and I will continue to update in this thread as pieces come together.

SteveP

The results are disappointing to say the least. As far as the AC goes, I am pretty certain it is turned off when the engine goes to WOT.

Do you have any dyno sheets from Dynotronics? I would assume it was tuned on a dyno? Did it show a gain there?

Thanks for doing this and posting it.
Steve

RX8R3Rod

Thanks again for kindly sharing this! As you say, it seems likely there's some issue with the data as if you can feel the difference, as you clearly can, it's highly likely to be measurable. Look forward to the next update!

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Your butt is not a dyno.
Quite a few people around here will claim that their car has more power after they remove the battery for a while when all that has happened is that their fuel trims have reset.
This will make the car feel "snappier", even though it might have actually lost power.

The AC disengages at high load.

Docj78

Jeff-- You need to plea with Cobb to delve into the S2 ECU. The cars will become cheaper and more accesible to more "tuner minded" people as they get sold to 2nd and 3rd owners.

Certainly there will be a growing demand, and with your relationship with them and expertise on the product and platform--YOU may be the biggest advocate for us.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

No, there won't.

In the 3 years since 2009, Mazda has sold fewer RX-8s then they did in 2008 alone, which was a dismal sales year for the RX-8 as it stood on its own.
I get fewer than 3 or 4 requests a year from SII owners about the AccessPORT.
It is a totally dead-end market with practically zero possibility of even breaking even in the investment, let alone making a profit.

Docj78

dagger to the heart.

v3rlon

No, it is not. But a stopwatch IS a measuring instrument. The car IS doing something now faster than it used to as measured by it - consistently.

Will resetting the fuel trim levels do that? If so, is there a good reason not to do that every week? Secondly how much would they impact MPG? I am up about 1 across the last two fill-ups (1.2, 1.0).

We did not run it on Dynotronics's dyno. He wanted independent verification. He is out of town this week, but we will revisit this whole thing after he gets back. This week, I am going to try and get another dyno run to be as ironclad as possible on this.

From looking at the first run, I honestly thought my car was 'underachieving' and there would be room to improve based on that, if nothing else.

ganseg

iTrader: (5)

It won't hurt to reset it. When it is positive, and you reset it, that is making it leaner for as long as you are out there running it hard - like a track session. When you start regular driving it will start returning to the positive trim.

Docj78

This is good. From my skimming of the S2 forums, there are 2 cars that are currently pursuing the Dynotronics route (the other car in this https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...wpost&t=202316 thread).

If nothing else, this will hopefully shed some light on the viability of this option and demonstrate/cultivate interest amongst the S2 owners--and other potential tuners.

Help me eliminate the 135i as my next car choice--and stick with the RX8.

Bravo to bcdjudo7 and v3rlon for taking the plunge--and to dynotronics for offering this.