cretinx

Changing to a coilover and setting the dampers lower will definately give some better traction - but it'll be horrid if you just go to a stiffer spring without changing absorption rates.

jenkins-crew

what do you mean by that?

Vaillant

The shocks have to keep up with the springs. If the springs are very stiff and the shocks don't have a good dampening rate, they won't be matched and your car will handle poorly. Every see a lowered Civic bouncing along on the freeway? The shock can't properly dampen the aftermarket spring so the car bounces along. It's pretty funny to see. :D

Anyway, if the RB springs are only 10% stiffer, I personally wouldn't worry about it, but if they were 50% stiffer I sure would.

~ Matt

misterwilson007

put some bricks in the trunk.....that'll help with the wheel hop and also improve your gas mileage tremendously

jenkins-crew

oh ok, you didn't mentions shocks, I just didn't put that with dampering...duhhh me.

cretinx

regardless, the biggest difference is going to be tire compound and size

I just crammed some 285/35/18s in the rear (in anticipation of my turbo arriving sometime this year) - no problems anymore.

jenkins-crew

I was thinking a wider tire will help.......definately need more traction anyway.

BigOLundh

iTrader: (1)

Do you mind telling us where and how much you got those for? I was thinking of going 275 in the rear and 255 in the front.

jenkins-crew

yeah those can't be cheap...

Shamblerock

I don't think wider tires will cut it. It might even make it worse. But I'm no professional. Lack of torque in these car may also have an impact to a certain degree.

jenkins-crew

I just want good clean traction.....

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

The reason the bigger swaybar in the rear works to control wheelhop is because the function of a sway, or anti-roll, bar is to keep the tires on both sides of the car on a level plane, thusly transferring weight during cornering. When wheelhop occurs usually one tire is unloading from the pavement and the other is still trying to hook up. When the unloaded tire hits the ground and tries to establish traction the tire on the other side of the car is starting to lose it's own traction and each tire bounces up and down in opposing directions. Fatter sways will better control these motions.

CRH

Shamblerock

Thanks for the explanation Charles. Question: By adding the sway bar are we kind of reinforcing the axle moreso which also brings us closer to the rigidity of a solid rear axle like on the Mustang/Camaro because there is less twisting as well? I am aware that the solid rear axle operates totally different that LSD and LSD is better indeed. It seems that applying a good quality sway bay to a LSD gives you the best of both worlds, in our case.

I just want to get rid of the wheel hop without having to add anything more than a rear RB sway bar because I like the suspension the way it is.

Look forward to your response Charles. BTW, have you done anything to your 8 so far this winter?

cretinx

255 up front is plain ridiculous. Very few production cars run more than a 245. Aston-Martin DB9 runs a 235/285, Ferrari 360 runs a 215/275, Ferrari 430 runs a 225/285.

As far as price, $1800 from TireRack. The tires wound up costing more than the wheels. Took 1 day for delivery.

I'm willing to pay this price - once my turbo arrives I will not tolerate anymore of these tail-out shenanigans like my RX-7 was prone to do.

RX4life

qcouldnt have said it better... my argument exactly

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Shamblerock is kinda close in wondering if a stiffer rear swaybar brings the rear end more to the rigidity of a live axle type rear. Everything in automotive performance is a paradox, hence the name of my new company "Paradox Performance", and stiffer sways are in that region in this case. We are trying to have all four wheels track the pavement independently of one another but at the same time there are situations in which they must also move together as a unit, as when trying to get traction for acceleration. As has been stated in the past, it is one thing to build a single purpose car such as a drag racer but to try and cover all the bases at the same time(such as handling, braking, and power) poses some very real and perplexing challenges. Those attributes which work well on the drag strip are horrible on the road course and vice versa.

My experience with the RX-8 has been that the Racing Beat rear swaybar has eliminated wheelhop in all but the worst cases.

CRH

Shamblerock

Thanks Charles. When your new business goes live, make a big announcement here and I'm sure you'll get a fair share of memeber looking for product/services to buy from you.

Good luck with the business initiative!

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Shamble, thx for the well-wishes and support. I find that I get from this board precisely what I give and that's why my particular 8 hauls ***! With the help of several others I have forged ahead in my various projects with confidence. Abrams, R.G., and the rest of the geniuses(genii?) can take much credit around here.

BTW, I have some 255's in all four corners and they work pretty well.

Paradox is currently in the process of making a couple titanium PPF's for weight reduction purposes. I'll let y'all know how it goes and when they are available. If I am lucky I'll be subjecting one to the rigors of road-racing next month.

CRH

RotorManiac

hearing Charles saying that racing beat sway bars eliminated wheel hop, makes me wanna ask my money back from Mazdaspeed, because those sways didn't help much (stock springs/shocks)... there is a difference, but I expected more.
I'm also expecting my new rims with the 255 rear tires to solve the problem to some extend...

and a friend of mine told me that the major reason for wheelhoping is the independent (multi-link) suspension in the rear. that's why drag racers don't use that type...

rx8wannahave

!

Charles I 2nd that...let us all know because presently RB is my company of choice for the future upgrades I hope to put on my baby. I like that they really REALLY make sure things work the best and they don't do things just for looks while making the car worse overall.

I wonder what their ECU & FI future looks like...anyway...

Let us know Charles...we need as many Rotary-Brains as possible to help us newbies learn how to upgrade our cars.

jenkins-crew

you've got my support too charles. We need ya!

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

The problem with muti-link/independent rears is not so much the links as much as the way in which they are used. Multi's are typically used for road racing, for obvious reasons, and they are usually set up with some level of "pre-load" as is the RX-8. It is this pre-load that causes the traction in drag racing situations to suffer a bit. If you are a dedicated dragger with a good alignment shop nearby you can have some of the pre-load aligned out and make sure your camber and toe-in are at zero. Grip on turns takes a huge loss, though.

Up until recently Corvette draggers used to swap out their indy rears for a live axle set up. The indy u-joints and diff were only good until about high 9's and then they would fail. Tom's Differentials in California has a mod where they put in a 12-bolt ring and pinion and stronger diff which now holds up intil the 7's. I have been wondering if they would care to investigate the potentials of the RX-8 diff.

CRH

cretinx

I was just gonna say this

The 3200lb, 350 hp Corvettes were no faster from a stop than the 3400 lb, 305 hp Camaros because the Camaro had a nice, solid rear axle. Of course, we know what happens on the road course between these two.