Rotori

Let me preface this post by stating that I do not brake hard or unevenly. It seems no matter what I do, I cannot keep my wheels clean. My wheels are black every other day from brake dust. Could y'all please recommend a set of pads that aren't terrible about producing dust? Cost does not matter.

[Anyone know anything about Project Mu?]

R.

SOVINE

If they are the pads that originally came with the car then yeah brake dust goes everywhere. The service manager at my dealership said it has something to do with the way they were put on from the factory. They replaced my pads with new ones from the dealership and the way they put them on this time really reduced the amount of brake dust that is created. Although I have black rims so that helps =)

Rotori

Thanks for the quick reply, SOVINE. Yeah, they are the original factory pads.

lure3o1

So your basically looking for brake pads that dont create a lot of break dust? If you are, get some ceramic pads.

Rotori

Do you have any experience with ceramic? If so, what do you advise?

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

I've had ceramic on other cars and they're quite nice.

BoosTED

iTrader: (2)

The ceramic considerably cuts down on the amount of brake dust.

Make sure and use brake quiet on the back of the pads to ensure that they don't squeal like the stock pads can.

Rotori

I've noticed that squealing on the factory pads and it's quite annoying. Thanks for all the help, guys!

willhave8

Carbotech Bobcats -- signficantly Lower amount of dust versus stock pads, better performance than stock (my humble opinion) - cool red color... Reach out to Phil at DPE (Club Vendor) and he will hook you up.

CosmosMpower

Any idea on the cost of those? Also will they stand up to autocross and an occasional track day?

Rotori

Thanks, man.

Razz1

Ceramic........ get them from the best

http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/

willhave8

http://www.dpeweb.com/ProductsList.a...oductTypeID=14

I don't use them on the front for the track (XP8's are used then) but the Bobcats work fine on the rears (although the pretty red paint won't last...). I suspect they will also work fine for the occasional auto-x.

Follow the recommendations from DPE and you will not be disappointed.

BoosTED

iTrader: (2)

How do the Bobcats compare to the Panther Plus for the 8?

willhave8

Haven't used the Panther Plus, only the XP8s which are a more serious pad for the track. They need more heat to work and once at temp really, really bite. I use the XP8s on the front for HPDE per DPE advice and all I can say is that I can generally brake later and deeper into corners than most other 3000 lb cars.

I have also driven with the XP8s home from events and find that they work fine if needed. They will squeal a little and dust more. I do that only because I sometimes am too lazy or in too much of a hurry, to wait for them to cool off so I can put the Bobcats back on...

In the end, there is no reason to use the XP8s on the street.

Paul_in_DC

I have Hawk Performance Ceramics. I'm very pleased with them - no noise at all, much less dust than OE pads. Also the color of the dust is lighter, so it doesn't show up as badly. I read somewhere that ceramic dust doesn't make the wheels "pit" like regular brake dust can.

They're not as "grabby" as the OE pads, but they work well enough that I've used them for Autocross and on the track at Summit Point and Virginia International Raceway.

The Tire Rack has them Here for $68 front and $67 rear.

Rotori

Thanks a lot, fellas.

Red Devil

I agree. I do the same exact setup for both street and track. The bobcats, I think, are significantly better than the OEM pads on the street.

BoosTED

iTrader: (2)

So the Panther plus would be in between the XP8s and the Bobcats?

willhave8

I don't have direct experience with the Panther Plus pads but this is from the DPE site. From a temp range standpoint, the Panther Plus pads are in-between the XP8s and Bobcats - although there may be other considerations or aspects of their compositions that make this less than a linear decision.
**************************
The Carbotech Panther XP8 is a high torque brake compound with a wide operating temperature range (250F to 1350F).

The Carbotech Panther Plus is a high torque brake compound with a wide operating temperature range (150F to 1250F).

The Carbotech Bobcat is a ceramic based friction material offering minimal rotor wear, outstanding performance when cold, very low dusting, and low noise with an excellent initial bite. Friction coefficient is .45 over it’s operating range of ambient temp to 900F

DPE

iTrader: (1)

Panther Plus are now known as the 'AX6'; this post reminds me I need to change that on my site . AX stands for Autox, though plenty of folks use this pad on track with good results. On a WRX or 350Z or some other car with crappy OEM brakes, they are inadequate on track. On an RX-8, they have proven to be totally adequate on track running mildly modded cars on street tires. Even with really good/fast drivers (not me). Throw on R-compounds, and I'd say XP8s would be your best bet. Or if you just want to be certain you won't overdrive the brakes, get XP8s. Add a supercharger or the like, and go with XP10s . All Carbotech pads are ceramic-based compounds by the way, and the dust is non-corrosive even on their most aggressive race pads.

To compare the three main suspects, Bobcats are intended for street use and thus are quiet, have minimal dust, and stop fine even in very cold weather. They also seem to work fine on the rear of an RX-8 for track use, or even on the front if you're fairly new to track days and/or don't drive at 10/10ths all the time. They have a higher friction coefficient and maximum temp than the Hawk HP+ (never mind the HPS or Hawk Ceramic, which are not in the same league), yet unlike the HP+ they are made for street use. They are also excellent for autox; people have won national championships with them.

The Panther Plus (or AX6 as we should call them now) is considered a true 'race' pad. It makes no real concessions for street use, and they will squeak from time to time and give off lots of dust. Their maximum temp and friction coefficient is quite a bit higher than the Bobcats (1250 vs. 900 and .57 vs. .47). That said, I've run them for months at a time and they are totally streetable and don't seem to wear rotors too badly. Obviously by the name you can tell these are intended for autox, but they'll also do great on track on an RX-8.

The XP8 is an incremental step up from the AX6. Just a little more friction coefficient (.61 vs. .57) and a little higher temp capability (1350 vs. 1250), but in practice it seems like a larger difference than the numbers indicate. I've vaporized Panther Plus in a WRX where XP8s lasted about 2x as long. Which wasn't very long. And then I got a Stoptech kit for the WRX. And times were good until pad knockback became obscene due to crappy wheel bearings. But I digress. Point being, this is what we typically recommend because the price difference between XP8s and AX6s isn't all that much and it's a little extra insurance for those really hot days or for you guys running Road America that have to haul the car down from really high speeds after that 17 mile straight or however long it is .

And just to throw them in the mix, XP10s are rather incredible and a pretty healthy step up from XP8s. But they're also overkill for track day use in an RX-8 unless it's making serious power and has R-compounds. That said, even XP10s are streetable enough to get you to the track and back, which is quite impressive given their 1650+ maximum temp capability.

What about XP9s? They'll still make them on request, but Carbotech has mostly discontinued them. Reason being XP10s outperform them, cost essentially the same to make, and oddly enough are more streetable. So no reason to get XP9s really.

Oh, and change your fluid if you're going to the track. ATE Blue is adequate, PBR BF600 or Motul RBF 600 is even better.

There's more than anyone wanted to know; I may repost this in my forum just to have the info in one spot.

Last comment: I'm not meaning to bash Hawk pads. They are great pads, and a more cost-effective pad for street applications. And I don't think anyone can argue with the success they've had in racing. I just think that for track pads on street cars Carbotech compounds are better in every way, and for a true street pad the Bobcat is one of the best available.

tmak26b

I agree with everything the last poster said. Carbotech make GREAT pads, I liked the Cobalt Friction too, but their customer service is very suspect.

The only thing about driving the XP8 daily is the noise, they are NOISY.

Also I bought a set of HP+ to replace the XP8 (on a different car) due to availabilty and price. The HP+ last longer, but they are absolutely terrible on brakes. My rotors are completely destoryed after 100 miles with the HP+

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

100miles LOL...that I gotta see

tmak26b

rotors still on the car, feel free to check.

I dont have pictures of the rear rotors, but this is the fronts after 30K miles. 2500 track miles, 250 autox runs, 1 hill climb, still on original oem pads, but swapped to XP8 and Cobalt Friction GTS. They are shot, but the rears look a lot worse after 100 miles on the HP+

swoope

iTrader: (5)

this is you friends car??? and with all that going on i am impressed on how good the rotors look..

beers