Just got my P-Zero Neros installed - first impressions:

1) It's 28 degrees outside. With my Potenzas, I could "break it loose" by tromping the throttle at 5 mph on DRY pavement - the car would come up into the powerband and the wheels would begin to spin. Above 45 degrees, not a problem. But the Potenzas turn into old dried-out erasers when the temp is low - the lower, the worse it gets. These, at 28 degrees, and BRAND NEW (like 5 miles on them) stick very nicely in corners at low temps.

2) They are QUIET! Man, so much less noise in the car - so noticable. With the Potenzas, you could hear the tread blocks slapping the pavement - not so with these. Terrific!

3) A little softer ride - my guess is just how the tire is constructed.

4) Overall handling: Too early to tell - in my experience it takes a tire at least 500 miles before the "mold shine" wears off them and they start to grip like they were designed to ... same reason racecars like to run on "scuffs" rather than "stickers".

Very interested in getting a little snow now so I can see how the car deals with it!

Stew

Just got my P-Zero Neros installed - first impressions:

1) It's 28 degrees outside. With my Potenzas, I could "break it loose" by tromping the throttle at 5 mph on DRY pavement - the car would come up into the powerband and the wheels would begin to spin. Above 45 degrees, not a problem. But the Potenzas turn into old dried-out erasers when the temp is low - the lower, the worse it gets. These, at 28 degrees, and BRAND NEW (like 5 miles on them) stick very nicely in corners at low temps.

2) They are QUIET! Man, so much less noise in the car - so noticable. With the Potenzas, you could hear the tread blocks slapping the pavement - not so with these. Terrific!

3) A little softer ride - my guess is just how the tire is constructed.

4) Overall handling: Too early to tell - in my experience it takes a tire at least 500 miles before the "mold shine" wears off them and they start to grip like they were designed to ... same reason racecars like to run on "scuffs" rather than "stickers".

Very interested in getting a little snow now so I can see how the car deals with it!

------------

MORE:

Damn these babies are WIDE! You wouldn't think that 20 mm in section width (the widest point of the tire, as mounted on the recommended wheel size 8.0 or 8.5" - I went with 245/40's) would make a difference, but it DOES.

What was cool was when they were stacked in the garage after arrival - they just looked HUGE ... I was away on Friday and asked my neighbor to roll them into the garage after UPS delivered them and he called me laughing and wondered when I was going to grid the car at Indy. Just as a lark, I measured the stack - it was 49" tall. The Potenza RE040's measured just 45" tall as a stack of four!

They look terrific on the car.

Crispness: I think this is probably just new tire "shine" but they do feel slightly less crisp than the Potenzas - but honestly, for me, that's a good thing. I thought the Potenzas were unnecessarily stiff. Even if I give up a bit of "crisp" for an improvement in ride, it's a trade that's worth it ... but based on what Omicron has said, it doesn't sound like it's a lasting phenomenon.

Ok... has anyone attempted to go with tires wider than the 245/40/18's? How about 255/35/18's? The biggest potential problem I can see would be clearance issues; both height and width. I'm going to order the tires in the next day or so, so any thoughts would be appreciated! :)
-Doc C

255's can't be mounted on the 8.5" stock wheels. 245 is the max width for that wheel. Can't speak to clearance issues.

Rightio Stew...I'd like to see pics now... :D

The stock 18" wheels are 8" wide.

tpryor has put 255's on I think....do a search on his posts.

It's a sunny day today - I'll snap photos later today ... :)

Ok, I think you guys may have solved my problem. Winter is coming and I was looking for a lower-cost solution than buying a fresh set of rims and wheels (estimates were coming up close to $2000).

So, if I go with this $520 solution...I'd be very very happy:)

However, some questions:

1) What'd you guys do with the old tires?
2) Someone above mentioned the width being huge...does it fit the car ok? No problems?

3) How does the change away from 225/45 to 225/40 change the speedometer accuracy?

Hi guys:

PHOTOS! And answers:

1) Old tire disposal: Well, my take-off Potenza tires have only 3800 miles on them, so they are going on the FOR SALE forum, and if that doesn't work, eBay. I'm guessing I'll get $400 for them. And, if they dont' sell, then they go into ozone-proof bags and into my crawlspace where they will wait patiently for the PZero's to wear out, and then back on they go!

2) No interference problems with the 245s at all, as borne out by Omicron's pioneering experiement to boldly go where no tire had gone before!

3) Well, for starters, I didn't go from 225/45 to 225/40, but to 245/40. With the 40 being a percentage of the section width (225 or 245), the nominal sidewall height of the old tires was 225mm x 45% or 101.25 mm. The nominal sidewall height of the new tires is 245mm x 40% or 98mm. The rolling circumference of the new tires is a little bit less than the old ones, therefore, the speedo is off by a touch. Or Go to Tire Rack.com for exact answers here, but I can't see any obvious calibration errors - my speedo was 1-2 mph off (to the high side) as compared to my portable GPS unit in my car, and just today tested it, and it seems to be solidly 2mph off at lower speeds, and 3mph at higher. Most speedos have error rates of a few percentage points so this is right in line with that.

Pictures attached - they probably don't show the illusion of much wider as much as it looks in person ... but, take a look anyway.

Stew

And more photos.

Lathos:

You and I were in the same boat - this is a leased car. An extra set of winter wheels and tires were going to run me well north of $1300 at the entry level and $2000 for a truly nice set.

This was $720 solution with shipping, mounting and balancing all counted. And I hope to recover $400 of that on resale of my current tires, making this a $320 investment. Not too bad.

They look great Stew... and you're right about the mold release compound- try to get that off before you get into much snow with some spirited driving and cornering in the dry.

Enjoy!

Is that a prescription, Doctor? I'll be sure to heed it if it is! :)

Aye- take two hairpins at 60 and call me in the morning

zoom-zoom!

1. I sold mine here in the Parts for Sale forum for almost what I bought the Pirellis for. My Potenzas only had about 1500 miles on them.

2. No clearance problems at all, even with the Tein H-Tech springs I have, which drop the car 1.5" in front and 1" in the rear. And, I got the 245/40-18s.

3. My speedo was off by +1 MPH with the Potenzas, it's now off by +2 MPH with the Pirellis. Not significant, IMHO.

More details about all of your questions in this thread. Hope this helps! :D

Does it take anyone special to mount the tires due to the TPMS? I've heard repeated stories about shops causing tire leaks due to faulty TPMS handling...

Does this only come into play with a wheel swap, or will a tire change also do it?

Any time the tire is dismounted/mounted, you have to deal with the TPMS sensors. I had to call around to a few places to find one that was comfortable working on them, and ended up going to a NTB shop. I also printed out the Mazda Service Flash that details how to deal with them and gave it to the tech to make sure he knew to unfasten them and drop them in the tire before breaking the seal all the way around. You don't /have/ to follow that procedure, but it's pretty easy to damage the aluminum sensors with their equipment if you don't. The good thing is they're much easier to work on that the band style sensors that some of the German mfr's use.

How about taking the tires to the dealer to have them mounted? That way if they damage anything it should be less of a hassle (I actually like my dealer).

I can only imagine the difference in cost though...

That is the best bet, but yes- probably cost a lost more. My local dealer wanted over $50/ tire, plus some BS fee for working on "performance wheels" over 18". I think it was going to be $250 or so... I was a little pissed since I just bought it but hadn't picked it up yet. I would have negotiated it into the purchase, but i already had them below invoice.

Hm.

I love these types of conversations:

Me: "I've got an RX8 and Im getting some all seasons because the weather is starting to turn. How much will you charge me for a mount and balance job?"

Rep: "Hmmmmm. Weeelllll. "

Me: "...."

Rep: "Yeeeaahh.. Hmmmmm. What size wheels did you say you had?"

Me: "18's"

Rep: "OOohhh, ouch. That's ...yeah. Hmmm. You want to do all four?"

Me: "Yes"

Rep: "Hmm...well...<taps on keyboard> Well, that'll be $140"

Me: "Ouch. Can you break that down for me? "

Rep: "Well, that's just the cost for our mount and balance job"

Me: "Right, but what drives that price up. Is it the 18" wheels?"

Rep: "Oh yeah, on any 18" wheel and especially on the RX8's it's a real pain to mount and balance them"

Me: "......don't all RX8's come with 18"s stock?"

Rep: "Yes"

Me: "...."

Me: "Ok thanks bye"

Not floored by a sense of supreme confidence here. If he thinks mounting and balancing an 18" is hard and should cost more, he'd probably freak that I was looking to change to a tire dimenion of 245/40/18...(and find some way to charge me more for it)

It took me three tries to find a shop to do this that was:

1) Able and willing to handle the 18 wheels

2) Able and willing and knowledgeable about the TPMS sensors

3) Seemed like they had their general shit together.

I would up at Golz motors in Deerfield IL - it's a performance restoration/maintenance shop specializing in Porsches, MB, Ferrari, etc. and yes, "rotary powered performance cars" as they put it.

They did a fine job on the mount and balance although they did nick one wheel, but the scratch is so small that I ignored it. I might have done it myself anyway ... charged me $23,99 a wheel.

Go to TireRack.com and use their locator to find an installer in your area to do the work and then, as Sean said, grill them on their knowledge of how to do the work.

-------------
Separate subject: These pups stick LIKE GLUE! I love them - far better than the OEM Potenzas and this is on dry pavement! At cold temps, yes, but DRY. At these temps, the Potenzas just slid around.

Stew

This is my impression too. I certainly feel like I lost nothing by going from the Potenzas to the PZeros! :D

Just got my Pirelli 245/40/18's installed last night, to be ready for snow here in central Ohio. I didn't realize just how noisy the stock RE040's had gotten. I can now hear the fine points of the engine and transmission again! And the turn signal clicking is back to normal!

Like Omicron, I would describe the ride as "softer" in my first few miles. Tight turns still work fine, although the rear end corners with a bit of sponginess but is easily adjusted to. Bumps in the road are softer. The Pirelli's don't tend to follow grooves in the pavement. Early on, I'm very satisfied with my choice; I'll know more after a few interstate ramps. Just can't believe how much quieter the car is. The RE040's showed no visible cupping but they had gotten quite noisy somehow.

Before driving on the new tires, my plan was to re-mount the RE-040's next spring to get more wear out of them. I'm thinking now that I'll sell them (any offers?) if the Pirelli's continue to impress. More later after the snows. Happy motoring...

So what's a reasonable price for a 4 wheel mount and balance from a shop with TPMS expertise?

My dealer wants $140 to do it. That seems high, but I'm buying confidence that they'll do it right and know what they're doing. As I said before, my dealership is pretty decent (despite my amusing conversation earlier).

What I'm looking for is basically: "$140?? Are you insane?! You should only have to pay $$<insert number here> at any <insert chain here>. They know exactly what they're doing!!"

OR

"$140 isn't bad. That's just over what I paid, and it's at a dealership so you'll know it's being done right"

:)

I spent $100 at a private shop. The good news is that at $140, if they f-up and munch one of your wheels, they have the resources to replace it under warranty. A tire shop or private mechanic can't/wont' do that. Seems worth it to me.

Americas mount for $125
 

Pirellis back ordered at factory for at least 3-4 weeks. Americas (AKA discount tires.com)mounts for $125 if purchase elsewhere (like tirerack)and just have Americas mount/balance/etc. Americas recommended by local mazda dealer as place to go for excellent service and results here.

All the local stores saying they offer "no warranty" on tires if don't buy through them. If buy locally one gets the warranty and standard offer of free rotation for duration of tire life.

Americas comparable (slightly less expensive than TireRack overall when add in shipping and mounting fees) but the warranty appears well worth local business. Look through your yellow pages.

I have a Discount Tire (americas) outlet near me. They refused the job at any price ... said they don't mount tirerack's tires. I think it was just the manager being pissed at me because I originally said (when the Pirellis were on never-ending backorder in the fall) that I'd buy a set of Kuhmo Exsta AST's from him and then didn't.

Interesting posts here recently. Here's how I went about ordering the Pirelli P-Zero Nero's for my car: I went to a local tire shop, asked the manager about the availability of the exact tires I wanted, (I also had a copy of Car & Driver with me, that had the usual 6-page ad for Tire Rack), showed him what Tire Rack wanted for these tires, and asked what could he do to get a set of them for me. He made a couple of calls, and ended up going to Tire Rack, (the only place that had them in stock). He quoted me $155/tire with $30/wheel mounting, balancing, and includes his warranty. As far as he's concerned, I special ordered the tires through his shop, and therefore am entitled to his warranty.

So, I'm still pretty uneasy.

You guys are 110% positive that the 245/40/18 Pirelli PZero M&S All season tires have NO problems fitting the car?

What's the reason for going wider? Does it change handling characteristics?

I'm simply uneasy since I'd be basing a $750 investment on tires solely on the word of you, the forum posters. If the tires don't fit, have problems, rub, or screw up the handling profile, I won't get my money back. I'll be stuck with tires that I hate or don't fit the car right...

Llathos-
I haven't yet had mine installed. I'm hoping by Friday... but I made my decision after Omicron got his, and having been for a ride in his car with the tires on there, I was sold. I'm sure he's going to chime in on this one here, pretty quickly :D I'll post results of how they feel, drive, perform, and what, if any difference there is in speed readings. I GPS'd my car some time back with the OEM tires, and found that the GPS reading was an average of 2 mph slower than the speedo indicated, all the way from about 10 to >120 MPH.
What do you think, Omicron? :)
(hey! 300 posts! Finally!)

YES!!! Read my posts above... I have had the 245/40-18 PZeros on my car for some time now, AND Tein H-Tech (lowering) springs, and I have had NO clearance issues - period. Nor has anyone else that's put this width of tire on that I've heard of. :D

I got wider tires mainly because I like the way they look, and I figured that perhaps the extra width might help to give me more grip that I (might have) lost when going from the Potenzas to the PZeros. Dunno if the latter is the case, but I can tell you the PZeros stick like glue. See Stew's comments above also.

I can understand that, as people are always saying "Don't trust anything you read on the internet." But the beauty of a forum like this is that there are REAL PEOPLE behind these posts, sharing their real experiences. If you still don't trust the info (which is better than any info you'll get from a tire salesperson) then by all means, don't buy them. All I (and others) can do is relate our experiences. If you don't trust the info here, then do the safe thing and go to some local tire store that will guarantee your satisfaction.

Sorry to sound harsh, but I don't know what else you want me to say except maybe something like "ok, ok, you caught me, I don't really have these tires" (or) "I made all this up" or something. :eek: But I do have them, as do many others now - and they are almost universally loved by those that got them.

Hope this helps. ;)

Yup. :D

What Doc suggests is a good idea, if you're still on the fence Llathos... get a local dealer (who will guarantee your satisfaction) to order and install the PZeros. that's a win-win. :)

Ya know, I can appreciate your being cautious about this, Llathos... tires are a huge investment both in terms of dollars and time. I knew a year ago that I was going to need to replace the tires, but didn't know what tires I wanted to go with. When Omicron replaced his tires, I had followed this thread pretty closely, and the next time we got together, I went for a ride in his car specifically to get a feel for the tires - even from the passenger seat, I could tell the difference.
But, all this stuff posted here is strictly opinions, right? And we all know the old saying about opinions... :D I'd suggest looking around to see if there is anyone from the forum here that is relatively close to you in distance that has put a set of P-Zeros on their car, and see if you can go for a ride. If ya want, you can PM me for an idea or two.
-Doc

Ya know, you could have driven the car if you'd wanted Doc. YOU I'd trust to know how to drive an '8... albeit rapidly.... :D

Aww... I'm touched. You like me, you really like me :D We still have to take our trip up a certain Colorado hiway with a chase car and video cameras and stuff... ah, but that's a story for another thread... :rolleyes:

I have 245/40/18 Continental ContactExtremes. They fit. I went with this size simply because there was a wider selection of tires to choose from. The only disadvantage is that the speedo is 1% too fast... however, an advantage to a smaller tire is you effectively shorten your overall ratio (but the difference is negligible).

I have 245/40/18 Pzero Nero M&S. They were installed Saturday, Dec 18th.

These tires are amazing. Atleast in weather below 40 degrees (no snow yet) these tires absolutely transform the car. It is quieter, smoother, sticks better, and looks cooler. No fitment issues whatsoever. I can't reccomend them enough. I actually like the car even more now with these particualr tires. It feels like a freakin' Lexus it rides so smooth. I feel that it is also much safer at low temps due to the compound being stickier in the cold, you can feel the difference very clearly.

Just get them. Most folks just show up at the tire place and walk out with whatever the tire guy feels like selling them. You've got a bunch of dedicated enthusiasts who own your car telling you their personal experience with a tire, not to mention the glowing reviews and tests at tirerack.com. It is most likely the best all season tire for the RX8 unless you have to deal with tons of snow, in which case I'd look at the Continentals.

Well, three days late, and finally I've got 'em. :D In the just the short drive home, I already love these tires! I never quite noticed exactly how much tire noise the Potenzas were causing. I'll post more results later when I'm able to take a longer drive. A quick note, tho - just like Omicron, I need to find a Norelco to shave the stubble from these things :D

My stock potenza's with 25K on them are wailing like banshee's, I'm looking forward to getting these just for the noise reduction alone! :)

I've had mine on for about 3 weeks now and they are fantastic. I still have yet to drive them in snow, but on the dry, they stick like glue, ride much quieter than the stock Potenzas and also aren't as harsh on ride.

Lathos, I'm a lot like you - I felt like I was taking a bit of a leap of faith, and I went all the way with it - I bought them mailorder from TireRack. After reading Omicron's reactions to them and that of a few other folks, I knew I was making the right decision and I went for it.

The problem with trusting a tire dealer to give you the right opinion is that the counterman's opinions are entirely, 100% based upon which company is offering what spiffs, bonuses, gifts and incentives this month. I went to a Discount Tire store and the guy would ONLY sell me the Kuhmo Ecsta ASX over the Continental's, the Pirelli's, etc.

When I pressed him, he just kept saying, "it's the best tire, etc." Well, first thing I asked him to do was check stock on the Pirellis (this was when they were in backorder) - of course, no dice. No stock, no sale today, no interest in selling it to me. The Conti's were in stock and I kept hammering him - why do you like the Kuhmo's over the Conti's and finally he said "Well, Kuhmo is one of our featured company partners here, and they do a lot for us (read that "incentives") and we work hard to feature their products. He even admitted to me that the Kuhmos weren't as good a tire as the Conti's and the Pirelli's. "But, they are $30 less per tire". He never caught on that cost wasn't an issue with me.

Regarding size of the fitment: 245/40/18's ... none of the replacement tires came in a 225/45/18 - they only came in either /50 series or /40 series tires. Well, obviously going UP to 50's was going to wreck the handling. So, I had to come down. But 225/40's made the rolling circumference of the tire MUCH less than the OEM tire, and would really throw off speedo calibration, possibly cause issues with the DSC/TCS etc. The 245/40's have the closest rolling circumference of any other replacement size (called a "plus zero" conversion by the tire/wheel industry) as compared to the OEMs.

So, results:

1) My speedo, previously 1 mph off to the high side at 70 mph (was reading 71, at a true, GPS-measured speed of 70), is now 2 mph off (reads 72, when the car is going 70). That's not a big deal. My wife's Honda Odyssey's speedo is off 3 mph at the same speed on OEM tires.

2) Absolutely NO interference issues.

3) Among a poll of three 7th grade boys, they all said the car looks "far meaner" with the wider tires.

4) The Rice Boy down the street from me said he noticed the wider tires on just a drive by.

5) The 350Z owner down the street from me is planning to do the same to his car.

6) And the handling/noise/ride/etc. is all better.

Boy these All Season tires are sure a compromise, don't you think?

Stew

THanks again guys. You guys are the best. I reread my post and it read a bit harsher than I intended. I certainly didn't intend to call any of you liars, just to convey my general discomfort with going to a different tire size with an online order.

I just ordered:)

You totally will not be sorry. These things rock. Did you see the pics of them on my car? You'd think that one inch of width would not be noticeable, but it really is. They look positively badass.

Now, just find a good/reliable installer - and if needed, use your Mazda dealer.

Stew

hahah

That is very funny. You are a funny man.

Takashi, hope you're not taking offense to my "Rice Boy" comment - he's a kid that is into heavily customizing his import "sport compact" (if a Civic can ever be described as "sport") in the "Ricer" style. His own term for himself (and he is not of Asian decent - he's caucasian/Jewish) is "Rice Boy" and in fact his license plate says "RCEBOY" ...

Stew

No I did not.

But I am slightly concern about your concept of the Civics. Yes 99% of the Civics are driven by conservative people and boys don't I see the grey hair grandma loves those hatchbacks.

There are a few N1 Mugen tuned (EP3) Civic Type R that should be aware of. They are quite strong chassis to built on and the Type R version have the same engine of the JDM Integra Type R (that is 220ps). When changed all N1 chamber, Mugen ECU, exhaust etc. It can easily get up to 260ps in a NA engine. One raced in Macau GP last year and it beats an fully tuned EVO VII! :eek:

Some Civic drives amazing too :)

Just some info.

I know that there are some hot Civics out there. But I'm just morally opposed to the concept of people throwing a huge amount of money to hop up a boring car. At least spend the money on it's "under the skin twin", the Integra.

OK, so your laughter was genunie! Sorry, I thouhgt you were being sarcastic. Guess it was your Australian accent that got me there! :)

Around my area, the most common thing you see are "all show, no go" cars - kids in base Civics, Cavaliers, base Golfs, old base Integras, with economy engines and automatic gearboxes who put 19" rims on the car, lower it 3", put some wing on the trunk that looks like a picnic table and paint the whole thing metalflake lime green, or electric purple. So they spend $7000 customizing a $1500 car. Idiots.

Then, the go around putting the "rev on" me at a stoplight like they are going to race me.

Easiest clue to tell an all-show/no go guy is by how far their seatback is reclined and confirmed by the size of their brake rotors. The "shows" have their seatback reclined so far that it does them no good, they aren't wearing their seatbelts, and they have brake rotors that would fit inside 13" wheels.

Then there was the kid last week. He rolled up next to me in a 1994 Integra that was painted three random shades of primer grey. He had Brembo 6-pot calipers on what had to be 15" cross drilled brake rotors inside of 18" BBS wheels shod with what looked like 35 series Michelin rubber. Damn his wheels, tires, and brakes probably cost a third of my car.

I looked over and the kid is seated in a Recaro racing seat with 3" wide Simpson belts, there was no passenger seat, no rear seat and no radio in the dash.

I looked over and just said "Nice Car!" through the side window. He smiled. He knew.

That beast was ALL performance. Caught up with him later in the day again in the parking lot of a local Wendy's burger place. He races in road races at Road America, Gingerman and other spots. Was out taking it for a "shake out" drive to test out a new alignment setup.

Those are the guys I worry about.

Very nice story.

It is VERY similar here. There are a lot of people in Australia buying $5000 "born-in-the- early-90s" Holden or Ford V8s and put all these expensive stuffs in. They even turbo charged some of them and like to burn their tyre at a 50kmh-speed-limited suburban street.

They love to do donuts and burn outs on the streets of the heavily industralised suburbs during the weekend too!

idiots :)

Taka sees himself as a True blue Aussie with a twist, he likes expensive cars not commodores , good food not pies and pasties with tomato sauce , and designer clothes , but he does have a passion for Asian ladies apart from the lap dancers he visits .

Also hes tick skinned you would have to bein his line of work .

cheers
michael