Omicron
Thanks again for the update. You have me sold. Soon these tires will be on my 8. Many thanks again. As for the wet road test, I am pretty sure they will be an upgrade from our beloved P 40. Thanks

Mark

No problem Mark, happy to help. Be sure and post your thoughts when you get your Pirellis too!

Omicron, you need a snowstorm today so we can get a review in snow! Seriously, I guess they don't make these tires in 225 or 235?

They might, but I didn't even look. I wanted the wider tires... just plain love the way they look. And enough people on the board here had put this size on that I knew they'd work. And lemme tell you, they do look sweeeeeet!!! Even Mrs. Omi likes 'em, and she doesn't usually notice these things. :D

Yeah, I know narrower tires do better in the snow, but these tires, even in the wider size, will be a HUGE improvement over the Potenzas on snow. Hell, ICE SCATES would be an improvement over the Potenzas in snow. ;)

That statement is SOOOOO very true. I tried to take my 8 in yesterday for the recall work, and with a light dusting of snow on the road, I barely made it half way to the dealership before turning around. I should mention that the dealership I have to go to is 60 miles away... I know what my next purchase is going to be!
-Doccable

No offense Doccable, but, I am thinking about an old Polock joke... made it half way but decided they couldn't make it all the way and turned back...ummmm, well, if you made it half way, why not go the whole and get it done? :)

"We just about to land ... then we run outta gas ... so we have to go back." Chico, MONKEY BUSINESS

'Cause he had to go the WHOLE way back, perhaps? :D

"Next time we take a' plenty of gas. But we forgetta the airplane."

Yeah, yeah, I know, there's always a smart ass on here, this time I'll take the title. :D

"This time we almost-a-make it, maybe-a three feet, but we runna outta gas... " The last thing I expected was Night at the Opera routines... "Ah, but canna no fool me, I know theres a-no sanity clause." :D
Actually, the road was getting much worse the further I went, when I saw the semi laying on its side in the ditch, I really had to rethink about just what I was doing.

I can't say I blame you then.

I'm looking at getting these tires locally and the least expensive I can find them without having to do all the transporting them after having them shipped is for $776 at Discount Tire including mounting, ballancing and valve stems, which, of course, they don't need because of teh TPM system. I might go this route, if I decide to do this soon.

If you can make friends with a tire dealer of some sort, they can probably get them from the Tirerack at a considerable discount. I have a buddy who manages a Goodyear shop, and as it turns out, they have a wholesale account with Tirerack. Because of this, I paid $149 per tire (his cost) plus $54 shipping. Can't beat that with a stick! :D

Yeah, I can get them from tirerack for $150 each and $36 in shipping. Then to get them mounted the best price I have seen is $20 each. That's about $716.

If I do it that way, it means I have to get them delivered to my house, then transport them to the mounting place and have them mounted then bring home the stocks because they are too new just to pitch. I can transport them by way of my wife's CRV, that ought to hold 4 good sized tires in the rear with the seats down. I also had the stocks siped to ghet me through winter. So, with that, I am not sure what I could sell them for either on here or on e bay. Any idea or guessimate?

I sold mine via an add here on the Forum. Just make sure you price them attractively.

Also, you could have Tirerack ship your tires directly to the place you're gonna have them installed... most places would be happy to receive them. It also may save you shipping costs - the "cheap" rate is often to a business only.

Tire Rack will drop ship to the place that's gonna mount them. I also proved, when I had the wheel/snow assemblies put on, that you can fit all four stock wheel / tires in the '8 if (1) you cover seats with a tarp, (2) you put one in the trunk, 2 in back seat and one in front seat, and (3) you're slightly nuts. (I then cleaned them so carefully before storing that, if they WERE marked as to which wheel they came off, they're not now. Can't think of everything.

D Menac
How many miles you have on these tires? how much tread is left? You will have better luck selling them if they have better than 60% tread. These tires go fast after the 50% mark, plus the road noise will drive you nuts. You can always send them back to Mazda as repayment for that paint touch-up you got. hopefully Mazda will find a home for your babies.

Mark

Not wanting to steal Omnicron's thread, but...I only have 3800 miles on them, the thread is well over 60% probably closer to 75%+. I've never been abusive to them, drive like a Granny, well, maybe an aunt, but, then again, my aunt drives a Miata and she's 77. (Lead foot) :D

Actually, they are in good shape, I just am planning on the months ahead after Summer and Fall. I want something that has better traction and this seems to me to be the way to go for us middle climatic drivers where we seldom get huge amounts of snow but occasionally get enough to ground us with the stocks. 95% of my driving is in the city with the worse part just getting off my tertiary street and that's only a half block from a clearer street.

Well, I guess I'll start by posting these on the RX-8 Parts For Sale/Wanted section on here and give Omni back his thread. Sorry about that Omni. Thanks for everyone's help!

Not a problem, D M. :D

I have used the PZeroNero in the Z-rated version Max summer tire in a 205/55ZR16 and can say they have awesome grip.
I used them at a Summit Point track day and when they warm they get real sticky and have performance very close to the Azenis Sports.

Omicron,

I didn't see that you ever commented as to your snow driving experiences with the Pirelli's...anything to report? Thanks...

Those Pirelli's have the same traction, temp., and wear rating as the BF Goodrich G-FORCE T/A KDWS. I have read many great reviews of the BF Goodrich's great traction, I'd just go for price from there since they're both sticky. Plus I love the tread pattern on the KDWS!! :)

These PZero M+S seemed a great plan to allow me just to leave my house when it's snowing (got stranded last time, with the baby in the back!!) without getting an expensive winter Tyres+Alloys pack.

BUT : the PZero Nero M+S does not exist in Europe. Checking on Tirerack, it apparently is a special for North America ! And it seems to be the same for most brands.

So, two alternatives :

1- either tyre manufacturers cheat on Northern Americans making them believe that you can actually have a tyre that works in summer AND on snow ;

2- either they cheat on European by making us believe no single tyre can work in summer and on snow.

Considering :
- Omicron seems to be absolutely happy with his new tyres,
- Omicron does not work for Pirelli,
- some US magazines gaves good appraisals for these tyres,
- these magazines are not Pirelli owned,
- option 2 is more profitable for tyre manufacturers,

I think, we, Europeans, get screwed by tyre manufacturers...

Nope, your option 1 is correct. Note that Omicron has not tried them on snow yet! He's very happy with their wet and dry performance, but... while they'll be a lot better than the OEM summer tires on snow, that's not saying much. They'll give the RX-8 minimal snow capabilities, but will be nowhere near the performance of real winter tires. Read some of the comparison tests at Tire Rack for direct comparisons of all-season tires to winter tires.

The PZero Nero M+S will work fine in summer, and passably in snow. The OEM BS RE040 will work fine in summer, and not in snow. Real winter tires will work fine in snow. It's all about what compromises you're willing to accept. If you experience real winters, rather than occasional snowfalls which clear up within a few days - stick to winter tires.

Me, personally - I'd consider using the PZero Nero M+S for summer use, based on Omicron's description of their dry/wet performance, and be grateful for the limited winter capability if I was caught out in snow in early or late summer (it happens around here), but I'd still use winter tires for winter.

Regards,
Gordon

Nope, sorry folks, I have not yet had a chance to experience these tires in snow. Dadgumit, it's been in the 70s and absolutely BEAUTIFUL here in Colorado of late! (Can you tell how much I'm suffering? :D)

Gord is probably right, they will not be as good as "dedicated" snow tires. However, Tirerack customers who have bought these Pirellis rate them as a snow traction of 7.2 (out of 10 possible) which is as good as or better than all the other UHPAS tires they offer except for the Continental ContiExtremeContact, which gets an 8.0 rating. But the ContiExtremeContact is WAY noisy and harsh riding. Not worth if for 0.8 improvement, IMHO.

For the sake of comparison, the Michelin Pilot Alpin in the same size gets an 8.6 rating, and the Bridgestone Blizzak MZ-03 gets a 9.7 rating. So yes, dedicated snows will be better if you need them.

Fortunately here in Colorado, believe it or now, we only get periodic snow which usually melts off within a day or two. If it's gonna stick around for a while I just drive my Grand Cherokee. These tires are more so I can drive my RX-8 daily and not worry about getting caught by a storm. (Hi honey, I'm stuck in the parking lot at work, can you come get me? ;))

Another thing of note: These tires will outlast many other tires, (including the stock Potenzas) by quite a bit, as they have a treadwear rating of 400. Most of the other UHPAS and UHP tires have a treadwear rating of 220-300. Only the ContiExtremeContact has as high a tread life - but I already noted why I didn't want them.

Oh, and they're also WR speed rated.

To me, they're the ideal compromise.... but as Gord points out, they are a compromise.

How about us?

I don't think we will get the P0 M+S (well there is no snow here unless 1000m up in winter)

P0 Nero is never heard of - and any P0 here is A$600 each!

omicron,

how close is the gearing, have you compared the speedo to gps???

to go from treadwear 140 to 400 without suffering preformance lose would be a win win situation.

i have the dunlops the speedo is off by 1.6mph at 60 to 75.

just wandering.

beers

I agree with all you statements here, including the fact that for me too, it seems the ideal compromise.
I rate the snow traction of the original Potenza somwhere between 0 and 1...

I'll keep on searching for an alternative.

According to the fixed radar "Your speed is" stations around town, the speedo is high by about 2 MPH at 60 MPH. Have not had a chance to check it with my GPS yet.

In reply to the earlier weight question-my 4 p-zero nero m+s (245/40 R18) all weighed 25.6 lb on a calibrated scale-my OEM potenzas with 7000K on them weighed 25.0-25.1lb. With a couple hundred miles on them I concur with Omicron's review-especially noticeable was the "softer feel" over the rough roads here in MI, while increasing the "lateral" grip (power drift is an effort now). I can't wait to see how they handle after they break-in a bit more. Wet traction has also improved quite a bit. My first post-thanks to all of you (except the people that argue??) for all the great info on a car I'm loving more each time I drive.

I just replaced my tires on my M3 (Yokohama AVS Intermediates) with a set of 18" Speedline rims and P-Zero M+S. My initial impression was that the tires are much quieter, and ride better. But they definately give up a bit of feel. They aren't as confidence inspiring because of the initial squish in the sidewall.

I haven't had a chance to really get 'em heated up, but I don't think they're all that. I just don't like that little bit of squish and roll when you first yank the wheel.

In my experience, brand new tires initially have that 'full tread feel' ("squish and roll") until they break-in a bit. I noticed that too. However, I can maintain higher rates of speed during high speed cornering before starting to lose traction (especially in cold/rain), even though it feels slightly less connected than the OEM tires. Even if the slight squish in the sidewall doesn't diminish as they break in, it would be an acceptable compromise for the more comfortable ride.

FYI and Update:

I just noticed on the sidewall of these tires that they are rated ZR and not WR as was stated in the Tirerack's info. Even better. :D

Also, some light snow is expected here within a week, so hopefully I'll get to try them out on that soon. I did have an opportunity to drive in some heavy rain the other day, and they handle perfectly. Definitely better than the Potenzas.

omicron,

thanks for all the info. i hope you get some snow to test in. glad to hear about the rain. i hit some very heavy rain on the way home from daytona doing a ride alone with the petty people.

i like the idea of a great handling tire with a 400 treadwear rating. does good in rain is just a bonus.

dont miss the snow.

beers

Ok, finally got to drive on some snow today. It actually snowed all night last night, and come this morning, we had enough that it had stuck on the roads.

So here goes Omi, out at 8AM to drive his car on the snowy roads, all in the interest of science. :D

In brief, the tires did great! While I could "feel" that the roads were slick (just as you can in ANY car, 4x4, or whatever) it was not at all scary as it was on the Potenzas. Standing hard on the brake at 30MPH give me a little bit of ABS action, but only briefly. And going around corners slightly faster than I would have - specifically trying to see how badly the rear end would swing out - caused the DSC to kick in, but again, only briefly. I had actually forgotten it was on, so I repeated the manuever with it turned off, and while the rear end did slide a bit, it was controllable and not terrifying.

Finally, I was able to get up my concrete driveway (~5 percent grade) without drama, while the Potenzas made it virtually impossible, spinning the whole way. the Pirellis let me drive right up into my garage with no wheelspin at all.

For the sake of comparison, I next took our front wheel drive Mazda 6S out on the same route. Traction Felt about the same as the 8... you could tell the roads were slick, but it was no better than the 8 on these Pirellis.

Now granted, the roads were not snow packed on top of a sheet of solid ice, but they were slick enough to give me confidence that these tires are good on the slick stuff. I'll still take my Grand Cherokee out if the roads get really bad, but I no longer have to worry about being stuck at work with the car shod in PZero Nero M+S tires. :D

OK, we'll let you have Spring now. Glad they felt good.

Maybe come Fall I'll get some, and see if folks with REAL winter want to buy my runflat M3/17-in. wheel package ....

Do the tires have a shape which protects the rim from hitting the curb? From the photo it looks like it does not, but it is hard to tell.

In this width, the tire has a tiny bit of sidewall "bulge" so yes, the rim has some protection.

How many inches did it snow?
About the driveway, thats awesome because i have so much trouble with the stock tires. and it prevents me from driving in the winter

There was about 2 inches of slushy snow on the ground when I took it out. Enough that I could tell the roads were sorta slick, but not as bad as snowpack on top of a layer of ice. Guess that'll have to wait for next winter.

hi OMICRON
thanks for the great info about your tires.
i was wondering what would be your second choice for your 8?
i'm asking cuz i tryed to get them from local discount tire but they said they are on back order for 1 and half month.
i like to buy tires from the store cuz they come with free road hazard program and free rotation and balance and i can get replacement warranty for little money. i was thinking about BF GOODRICH g force T/A KDW-2 or Michelin Pilot Sport A/S for my second choice. the guy at the store recomended set of cooper tires but i have no information on them. maybe he recomended those cuz they have them in stock.
so what would you get if there is no NERO MS avalable? it doen't have to be limited on what i mentioned. anybody have an idea please let me know too.
thank you.....!!!

Hi bkulleo -

Keep in mind that I wanted Ultra High Performance all-season tires, so that's all I looked at. But my second choice would have been the Toyo Proxes 4 tires. In fact, I almost got them instead because I like the tread pattern better and they cost about the same, but the Tirerack customer reviews of these Pirellis is what finally convinced me. I would also seriously consider the Continental ExtremeContact. Hope this helps!

Omicron: Good tires, good choice... You guys should also check out Hankook Ventus K104s (Rated as good as S03s for much less $...

Couple questions - Omicron: I believe you have been riding the new Neros for a bit now. First question is how they affected the low pressure monitoring system, if at all. I was told that the 40s, being a bit wider than the stock 45s for which the system was intended, will also tend to be slightly lower and the low pressure system was described to me as actually a height measuring device. Any difference that you have noticed with the new rubber? Second question: how's the carzoomer upgrade working out for you now that it's gotten warm a bit? Third (and last): are there any really good alternatives in the original 225.45.13 size? (I know CostCo has none but does carry the Michelin Pilots ... for about $220 or so a tire (but that does include mounting and road hazard ins. I believe to be fair about it). Thanks for the feedback - hope to see your setup at the Denver meet.

Hi Barry -

The TPMS works flawlessly with the new tires. And they are true pressure sensors regardless of what you were told, so I would have been surprised if they hadn't.

The CanZoomer stage 1.1 I have is not working as well as the original unit. I bought the full tuning kit and know what I need to fix (back the ignition advance off a couple of degrees) so this is no big deal. I may do it this weekend.

And as for good tire alternatives in the stock size, it all depends on what type of tire you want: pure summer performance, or like me, UHP all-seasons.

OK.....after spending some time on the web, I am down with 2 tires ContiExtremeContact and Toyo Froxes 4. They both have good ratings and most of people like them. I wish Tire Rack has Toyo tires so I can compare little better in same aspect. Well what you guys think? Anybody has had any of these tires wants to help me decide? I live in Houston so I don't have to worry about snow and I'm looking at 245/40/18 in size.
Thnk you.

Start a new thread here in the Wheel and Tire forum with your question - it's more apt to get noticed.

Personally, I'd go for the Toyos, as the Contis are reputed to ride harshly.

What made you decide against the PZeros I got? Just curious.

Thanks for the feedback, Omi. As predicted (in posts on warranty), the service manager at the Mazda dealer really doesn't know and takes the "omygawddon'tdoanythingnotstock-because-itmightvoidthewarranty" approach. Glad to know she's wrong about the pressure sensor. (She also insisted the car CAME with all season radials -- as they SHOULD here in mountain country! -- until she just couldn't find the letters "m&s" on the tires....) I'm sold on the Pirellis and will order a set forthwith.

About the carzoomer conversion, I'm NOT a mechanic or tinkerer. Suppose I could FIND a mechanic to do it for me, but stuff like adjusting the ignition advance a couple degrees is not my thing. If I had it put in (or stumbled to do it myself), what about the shut off when you take it to the dealer, perhaps for warranty work? Does the change in the spark advance affect performance if the unit is off or turned off? (In fact, DOES it "turn off" or must it be removed and the original replaced if you need to keep Mazda uninformed of its existence??) Thanks for all you've reported!

Hell Barry, if you decide to buy one we can put it in during the meet. Takes about 15 minutes. In fact, I'm sure there will be others there who'd like to see it. Once you see it you'll have confidence to deinstall and or disable it. Turning it off is as simple as removing the plastic PCM cover (three 10mm bolts and 2 clips) and throwing the switch on the side of the unit.

Thanks; I may just do that. But contemplating tires, the muffler, the carzoomer conversion, I may need to get another loan! Is it true those nice looking little wheel hub badges go for $120 a set? (Can't see what good ONE of the things would be....)