looking for Big Brake Kit
10-19-2005, 08:07 PM
#1
Ask a ninja!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
looking for Big Brake Kit
hey guys, i need some help to find the ideal kit.
im getting my car sponsored for a local shop. I already ordered in greddy turbo w/blowoff valve, greddy exhaust, tein coilovers. next order will br for a bodykit, rims and a big brake kit.
Brembo, Rotora, stoptech, & wilwood are the main places I'm looking. Its just that I want a kit that will also come with with rear rotors and if possible calipers too. Hopefully people with experience here can help me out with a quality kit.
thanks!
im getting my car sponsored for a local shop. I already ordered in greddy turbo w/blowoff valve, greddy exhaust, tein coilovers. next order will br for a bodykit, rims and a big brake kit.
Brembo, Rotora, stoptech, & wilwood are the main places I'm looking. Its just that I want a kit that will also come with with rear rotors and if possible calipers too. Hopefully people with experience here can help me out with a quality kit.
thanks!
10-19-2005, 09:24 PM
#2
Fire-Spewing Maniac
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 795
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Man, Pick up some Project Mu, or Some CHROME GREX 6 pots!
theyre so nice!
Shaw had the chrome grex's on his car, look for his "Deployment sale" post to see pics
theyre so nice!
Shaw had the chrome grex's on his car, look for his "Deployment sale" post to see pics
10-19-2005, 09:50 PM
#3
Registered
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Shawnee, KS (KC Metro)
Posts: 360
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes
on
5 Posts
If you are doing it for the look of a big brake kit, get the prettiest one. If you are doing it for performance, look no further than a Stoptech kit. They make both 328mm and 355mm front kits with their 4-pot caliper, as well as a race-only (deletes the parking brake I'm guessing) rear kit with a 2-pot.
Stoptech makes the most rigid calipers available, the calipers are properly dust-sealed for the street, and they look at the whole braking system and balance it accordingly whether you're using OEM rear brakes or their rear kit. You simply can't buy a better-performing brake kit. Not to mention their customer service is top notch, unlike some other aftermarket brake companies. And don't get caught up in the number of pistons, either. That seems to be a sticking point with some folks, and it simply isn't important.
That's our two cents, based on fact and experience.
Stoptech makes the most rigid calipers available, the calipers are properly dust-sealed for the street, and they look at the whole braking system and balance it accordingly whether you're using OEM rear brakes or their rear kit. You simply can't buy a better-performing brake kit. Not to mention their customer service is top notch, unlike some other aftermarket brake companies. And don't get caught up in the number of pistons, either. That seems to be a sticking point with some folks, and it simply isn't important.
That's our two cents, based on fact and experience.
10-20-2005, 04:54 PM
#4
Registered abUser
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sandy Eggo
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Willwood does not make a kit for the RX-8. Rotora is pretty much just for looks, but does carry the right price tag. I recommend the Stoptechs as well though (and yes the rear rotors delete the parking brake, hence the offroad use only.)
10-20-2005, 04:59 PM
#5
Originally Posted by DPE
If you are doing it for the look of a big brake kit, get the prettiest one. If you are doing it for performance, look no further than a Stoptech kit. They make both 328mm and 355mm front kits with their 4-pot caliper, as well as a race-only (deletes the parking brake I'm guessing) rear kit with a 2-pot.
Stoptech makes the most rigid calipers available, the calipers are properly dust-sealed for the street, and they look at the whole braking system and balance it accordingly whether you're using OEM rear brakes or their rear kit. You simply can't buy a better-performing brake kit. Not to mention their customer service is top notch, unlike some other aftermarket brake companies. And don't get caught up in the number of pistons, either. That seems to be a sticking point with some folks, and it simply isn't important.
That's our two cents, based on fact and experience.
Stoptech makes the most rigid calipers available, the calipers are properly dust-sealed for the street, and they look at the whole braking system and balance it accordingly whether you're using OEM rear brakes or their rear kit. You simply can't buy a better-performing brake kit. Not to mention their customer service is top notch, unlike some other aftermarket brake companies. And don't get caught up in the number of pistons, either. That seems to be a sticking point with some folks, and it simply isn't important.
That's our two cents, based on fact and experience.
No doubt for performance Stoptech is the way to go.... Most of the top Speed GT and Touring teams use them for a reason.
10-20-2005, 05:38 PM
#6
Ask a ninja!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
thanks for the info guys.
Regarding the 6piston vs 4 piston. I understand that using a 6-piston is for track racing. Is there a disadvantage to them if used as a daily driven car?
A friend said that they need to heat up for proper usage. is that true?
Regarding the 6piston vs 4 piston. I understand that using a 6-piston is for track racing. Is there a disadvantage to them if used as a daily driven car?
A friend said that they need to heat up for proper usage. is that true?
10-20-2005, 05:50 PM
#8
Originally Posted by nez
thanks for the info guys.
Regarding the 6piston vs 4 piston. I understand that using a 6-piston is for track racing. Is there a disadvantage to them if used as a daily driven car?
A friend said that they need to heat up for proper usage. is that true?
Regarding the 6piston vs 4 piston. I understand that using a 6-piston is for track racing. Is there a disadvantage to them if used as a daily driven car?
A friend said that they need to heat up for proper usage. is that true?
10-20-2005, 05:52 PM
#9
Registered
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: CA
Posts: 439
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was looking into stoptech BBK at first, but then a vendor told me that stoptech and rotoras are made in china... you decide if that is a good thing or not.
that made me kind of lean towards project mu, which will cost $1k more. but for sure JDM stuff and forged calipers (are stoptech calipers forged btw?).
but then, on another forum, a guy had stoptechs before, changed to project mu, now he says he misses the feel and control from the stoptechs.
Im confused which one to save up for too. :P
btw, stay away from rotoras IMO, I've heard good and bad things about them, while I only hear good things about the others.
that made me kind of lean towards project mu, which will cost $1k more. but for sure JDM stuff and forged calipers (are stoptech calipers forged btw?).
but then, on another forum, a guy had stoptechs before, changed to project mu, now he says he misses the feel and control from the stoptechs.
Im confused which one to save up for too. :P
btw, stay away from rotoras IMO, I've heard good and bad things about them, while I only hear good things about the others.
10-20-2005, 09:13 PM
#12
Registered
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Shawnee, KS (KC Metro)
Posts: 360
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes
on
5 Posts
All Stoptech brake kits have calipers that have proper dust seals for the street.
Number of pistons has very little to do with performance. More pistons does NOT mean more clamping force, and in fact clamping force has little to do with braking performance. Typically one goes with more pistons when you get into HUGE rotors and need the caliper to 'wrap' around the rotor further. This is a non-issue with the brakes on the RX-8.
Number of pistons also has nothing to do with whether it's a street or race caliper. The Wilwood 6-piston, like all Wilwood calipers, happens to be better suited to race environments because they do not have dust seals and Wilwood doesn't go to great lengths worrying about brake noise. However, the Stoptech ST-40 4-piston caliper (the one in most of their kits and the one in the front kits for the RX-8) is stiffer, has dust seals to keep it reliable on the street, and works better than the Wilwood on track (due to stiffness providing superior feel).
I'm not sure if it has been tested recently, but Stoptech makes THE stiffest caliper available as of a couple years ago. And yes, they are forged. I also don't think they are made in China, but I could be wrong about that. It doesn't matter if they are, frankly, because they simply work better than anything else we've dealt with.
When it comes to braking performance, understand that it's all about feel and heat capacity. Heat capacity comes almost exclusively from the size of the rotor and how effectively cooling air can get to the rotors. This is why an RX-8 can run on track just fine with its 12.6" OEM front brakes and well-designed splash guards that harness cooling air after it passes thrugh the oil coolers, and a similarly powerful Subaru WRX will have massive fade issues by lap three due to its 11.7" OEM front brakes. This is also why my WRX has a Stoptech kit on the front. Additionally, Stoptech rotors are two-piece, making them lighter than 1-piece rotors of the same size and able to shed heat more rapidly through superior internal vane structure and the conductivity of the aluminum rotor hat. And I'll qualify the above when I say the RX-8 can run on track 'just fine' with the OEM brakes; I'm referring to lapping days, Driver Education events, etc. NOT actual wheel-to-wheel racing for hours at a time. We also use track pads on the front of our cars, as well as better brake fluid, but one can survive on the OEM stuff if the sessions are short and you aren't really aggressive with the brakes.
The feel part of a braking system comes from caliper stiffness. Stoptech beats all comers in that department, and this is where the RX-8 would benefit most from a Stoptech kit. The OEM brakes actually feel very, very good, but on track they do get slightly soft under high stress even with good pads, lines and fluid. That is the OEM 1-pot caliper flexing that you feel, and the Stoptech caliper would eliminate that flex.
Additionally, when talking aftermarket, feel can come from how well balanced the new brakes keep the overall braking system. Stoptech pays more attention to this than anyone else, and it results in a system that is better than the competition.
From all of this it may sound like I work for Stoptech, which I do not. There is a reason I sell their Big Brake Kits and no one else's though. That's not to say all other kits aren't worth having, but with Stoptech I know my customer is getting one of the best, if not the best kit, and they're getting it for less money as well.
For more info on brakes in general, go to www.dpeweb.com and check out our Technical Articles on brakes in the upper-right corner.
Number of pistons has very little to do with performance. More pistons does NOT mean more clamping force, and in fact clamping force has little to do with braking performance. Typically one goes with more pistons when you get into HUGE rotors and need the caliper to 'wrap' around the rotor further. This is a non-issue with the brakes on the RX-8.
Number of pistons also has nothing to do with whether it's a street or race caliper. The Wilwood 6-piston, like all Wilwood calipers, happens to be better suited to race environments because they do not have dust seals and Wilwood doesn't go to great lengths worrying about brake noise. However, the Stoptech ST-40 4-piston caliper (the one in most of their kits and the one in the front kits for the RX-8) is stiffer, has dust seals to keep it reliable on the street, and works better than the Wilwood on track (due to stiffness providing superior feel).
I'm not sure if it has been tested recently, but Stoptech makes THE stiffest caliper available as of a couple years ago. And yes, they are forged. I also don't think they are made in China, but I could be wrong about that. It doesn't matter if they are, frankly, because they simply work better than anything else we've dealt with.
When it comes to braking performance, understand that it's all about feel and heat capacity. Heat capacity comes almost exclusively from the size of the rotor and how effectively cooling air can get to the rotors. This is why an RX-8 can run on track just fine with its 12.6" OEM front brakes and well-designed splash guards that harness cooling air after it passes thrugh the oil coolers, and a similarly powerful Subaru WRX will have massive fade issues by lap three due to its 11.7" OEM front brakes. This is also why my WRX has a Stoptech kit on the front. Additionally, Stoptech rotors are two-piece, making them lighter than 1-piece rotors of the same size and able to shed heat more rapidly through superior internal vane structure and the conductivity of the aluminum rotor hat. And I'll qualify the above when I say the RX-8 can run on track 'just fine' with the OEM brakes; I'm referring to lapping days, Driver Education events, etc. NOT actual wheel-to-wheel racing for hours at a time. We also use track pads on the front of our cars, as well as better brake fluid, but one can survive on the OEM stuff if the sessions are short and you aren't really aggressive with the brakes.
The feel part of a braking system comes from caliper stiffness. Stoptech beats all comers in that department, and this is where the RX-8 would benefit most from a Stoptech kit. The OEM brakes actually feel very, very good, but on track they do get slightly soft under high stress even with good pads, lines and fluid. That is the OEM 1-pot caliper flexing that you feel, and the Stoptech caliper would eliminate that flex.
Additionally, when talking aftermarket, feel can come from how well balanced the new brakes keep the overall braking system. Stoptech pays more attention to this than anyone else, and it results in a system that is better than the competition.
From all of this it may sound like I work for Stoptech, which I do not. There is a reason I sell their Big Brake Kits and no one else's though. That's not to say all other kits aren't worth having, but with Stoptech I know my customer is getting one of the best, if not the best kit, and they're getting it for less money as well.
For more info on brakes in general, go to www.dpeweb.com and check out our Technical Articles on brakes in the upper-right corner.
10-20-2005, 11:53 PM
#13
Well I did a lot of research on this and found out that the race teams could not find a better brake sytem tha the stock RX8. Then Stoptech went back to the drawing board and created version two.
They don't stop any better but last longer before brake fad and hold up to track enviroment much better. So unless your going to heat up your brakes and continue to stop on them hard then stick with the stock ones.
By the way I have Rotara's rotors and they are great. Don't know about the calipers.
They don't stop any better but last longer before brake fad and hold up to track enviroment much better. So unless your going to heat up your brakes and continue to stop on them hard then stick with the stock ones.
By the way I have Rotara's rotors and they are great. Don't know about the calipers.
10-26-2005, 08:28 AM
#15
Registered
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think part of your brake kit decision matrix needs to include what wheels you want to run, and how comfortable you are with using spacers.
I considered the stop tech kit, but dropped it when I was told by one of its retailers they'd just tried putting the kit on a car with OEM 18" wheels, and were looking at needing 15mm spacers to clear the rims. In the end I went with a Wilwood caliper using a 328mm x 1.25" thick rotor on aluminum hub or hat from docofmind &/or the www.brakezone.com follks in California. The Wilwood superlight caliper will clear (just barely) the inside face of OEM rims without the added complexity etc. of using spacers.
After some initial teething problems involving brake pad material, I can now say that after multiple track days on them, the brakes work great. Less important, but nice none the less, they kind of match the color of the car (red) and certainly attract their share of attention. Finally the Wilwood solution has the added benefit of being quite a bit less expensive (@ $1,000 less IIIRC when I was pricing them out) than comperable Brembo, Rotura & StopTech front kits.
HTH someone
Sorry, walked the dog, and a coulple of other points/considerations to put in your pipe and smoke on:
- cooling: the stock rotors are, I beliieve @ 12.8" or 325mm in diameter. Kits using 13" (@ 332mm) rotors will still more or less fit within the stock rotor shroud/shield and, most importantly IMO unless you are also going to undertake a major cooling duct project, still use the stock cooling arrangements pretty effectively. I'm not sure, in fact I'm pretty sure the same could not be said of kits using 355mm rotors.
- mass: notwithstanding the substantial jump in rotor mass (i.e. from 332mm x 28mm thick to 332mm x 32mm), the aluminum hub and rotor setup offer a substantial reduction in both sprun and rotating weight ~ some thing like @ 7+lbs IIRC in the Brakezone kit; don't know but probably comperable in the StopTech and others.
Finally, in addition to the white papers available on the StopTech site, see also Brake theory & design:
http://www.teamscr.com/grmbrakes.html
http://www.teamscr.com/bigbrakekits.html
I considered the stop tech kit, but dropped it when I was told by one of its retailers they'd just tried putting the kit on a car with OEM 18" wheels, and were looking at needing 15mm spacers to clear the rims. In the end I went with a Wilwood caliper using a 328mm x 1.25" thick rotor on aluminum hub or hat from docofmind &/or the www.brakezone.com follks in California. The Wilwood superlight caliper will clear (just barely) the inside face of OEM rims without the added complexity etc. of using spacers.
After some initial teething problems involving brake pad material, I can now say that after multiple track days on them, the brakes work great. Less important, but nice none the less, they kind of match the color of the car (red) and certainly attract their share of attention. Finally the Wilwood solution has the added benefit of being quite a bit less expensive (@ $1,000 less IIIRC when I was pricing them out) than comperable Brembo, Rotura & StopTech front kits.
HTH someone
Sorry, walked the dog, and a coulple of other points/considerations to put in your pipe and smoke on:
- cooling: the stock rotors are, I beliieve @ 12.8" or 325mm in diameter. Kits using 13" (@ 332mm) rotors will still more or less fit within the stock rotor shroud/shield and, most importantly IMO unless you are also going to undertake a major cooling duct project, still use the stock cooling arrangements pretty effectively. I'm not sure, in fact I'm pretty sure the same could not be said of kits using 355mm rotors.
- mass: notwithstanding the substantial jump in rotor mass (i.e. from 332mm x 28mm thick to 332mm x 32mm), the aluminum hub and rotor setup offer a substantial reduction in both sprun and rotating weight ~ some thing like @ 7+lbs IIRC in the Brakezone kit; don't know but probably comperable in the StopTech and others.
Finally, in addition to the white papers available on the StopTech site, see also Brake theory & design:
http://www.teamscr.com/grmbrakes.html
http://www.teamscr.com/bigbrakekits.html
Last edited by mlx8; 10-26-2005 at 09:12 AM.
10-29-2005, 04:09 AM
#16
You could be like me: I chose to go with the Endless Brake kit. This allowed me to simply upgrade everything but my stock rotor. So now I can use aftermarket two piece rotors or whatever I want. It simply retrofitted to the existing brake kit. REmoved caliper, lines, and replaced with the Endless caliper, bracket, and lines. SUCH A SIMPLE INSTALL. Everything was labeled and marked.
I've used the Rotora brakes on my friends WRX and they actually performed worst than his stock brakes. We were quite disappointed, but they looked bigger. Then we have a friend on the east coast with a convertible Z and has the front/rear GREX alcon kit and said they make tons of chattering noise and just never bed properly.
I went with this:
I know they are looking to offer sponsorship discounts, I got one and i'm a vendor here too so let me know if you're interested. We're looking for sponsees. Just remember that even at discount Endless brakes might still cost more. If you were in Cali I'd let you drive my car.
The Endless 6 piston mini caliper is about the same size as the ST40 Stoptech, is lighter, forged as well, staggered piston arrangement, staggered diameter, teflon SS lines, multiple color options as well. Caliper has inner dust seals for longevity, but does not have the outer ones as that would prematurely require rebuilding if the vehicle is tracked as the outer seals would wear quickly.
PM me if you need more info on how i LOVE MY BRAKES
I've used the Rotora brakes on my friends WRX and they actually performed worst than his stock brakes. We were quite disappointed, but they looked bigger. Then we have a friend on the east coast with a convertible Z and has the front/rear GREX alcon kit and said they make tons of chattering noise and just never bed properly.
I went with this:
I know they are looking to offer sponsorship discounts, I got one and i'm a vendor here too so let me know if you're interested. We're looking for sponsees. Just remember that even at discount Endless brakes might still cost more. If you were in Cali I'd let you drive my car.
The Endless 6 piston mini caliper is about the same size as the ST40 Stoptech, is lighter, forged as well, staggered piston arrangement, staggered diameter, teflon SS lines, multiple color options as well. Caliper has inner dust seals for longevity, but does not have the outer ones as that would prematurely require rebuilding if the vehicle is tracked as the outer seals would wear quickly.
PM me if you need more info on how i LOVE MY BRAKES
*sigh* the good stuff never is
12-01-2005, 06:43 PM
#18
Registered User
I have been using stoptech for a year now. Solved problem of uneven (inside to outside) brake pad wear. Even stopping force with great pedal feel on track with Hawk Blues, Hawk HP14's and Cobalt VR's.
I run hard laps at Sebring, Moroso and Homestead many times with a student going for rides with me.
Rotors lasted longer than anyothers to date. What more can I say.
Jay Goldfarb
Instructor with: NASA, BMW CCA, PBOC
I run hard laps at Sebring, Moroso and Homestead many times with a student going for rides with me.
Rotors lasted longer than anyothers to date. What more can I say.
Jay Goldfarb
Instructor with: NASA, BMW CCA, PBOC
12-06-2005, 03:12 AM
#20
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hopefully I can clear up one mis-conception. StopTech big brake kits are made Torrance, CA, USA. If I opened the door to the office you could probably hear the machining. It's not exactly the most soothing sound in the world.
12-11-2005, 11:21 AM
#21
Registered
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: TX
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not really sure what you're going for with brakes, but I can definitely say, DO NOT get Willwoods. I recently helped a friend install a Willwood kit on his Mustang, and it ended up being a huge PITA. It took 4 tries to get the proper calipers for his car, they kept sending the wrong pieces. Not only that, but we never did recieve the complete kit; that was the same story as the calipers, we were constantly recieving the wrong bolt/studs. We made so many trips to the hardware store and had to custom fab so much stuff, it would have been smarter to send it all back in the beginning and get a different kit. And mind you, we weren't working with a Willwood distributor, he was making calls directly to Willwood, and they were the ones who kept sending the wrong pieces.
I've seen Endless systems and can only say that they are fantastic. I've been in RX-8 shown above and the braking is simply scary. Seriously, the braking in that car put me a little on edge when I was riding it. Much more significant than stock.
I've seen Endless systems and can only say that they are fantastic. I've been in RX-8 shown above and the braking is simply scary. Seriously, the braking in that car put me a little on edge when I was riding it. Much more significant than stock.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
