rotarenvy

has anyone noticed a change in the opperation of the DSC when they fitted stiffer antiroll bars or springs?

I'm thinking it will take longer to kick in due to the reduction in movment from the suspension (measured by the sensors). will it still work effectivly?

PUR NRG

Traction control is based on wheel lockup or excessive spin relative to the other wheels. Nothing else. No suspension change you make will affect how DSC works.
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rotarenvy

my mistake!
DCS is stability control, not just traction. there is a suspension movment sensor on the left rear whell wheel and probably a yaw sensor/alereration sensor somewhere. otherwise what is the wheel sensor for?

cgrx

It seems like it might affect the Dynamic Skid Control (DSC) sensor if you changed to stiffer springs.

PUR NRG

The suspension sensor on the left rear control arm is to keep the HID lights level. To my knowledge it has nothing to do with DSC. If it did, you would need a similar sensor on all four corners.

What wheel sensor are you referring to?
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cgrx

How does the car know it is skidding sideways ?

rotarenvy

ok so the rear sensor is for the head lights that would explain why there is only one.

there must be a yaw sensor somewhere then?

if the system is wheel and yaw based changing your suspension should have little effect. the suspension will still change how the car slips and grips and no DSC calibration can work for all setups.

PUR NRG

Why "must" there be a yaw sensor? I repeat: DSC, aka traction control, is based on four wheel speed sensors and that's it. If you insist on saying there has to be something else involved, then give me a scenario where wheel rotation alone isn't enough to tell you've lost traction. Think it through and describe what each wheel is doing in the scenario.
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Sputnik

DSC is not the same as traction control. DSC = "Dynamic Stability Control", which is more involved than mere traction control.

---jps

PUR NRG

Sputnik, can you explain the key differences between traction control and DSC? To my mind they are synonyms much like "sway bars" and "anti-roll bars".
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rotarenvy

dsc can brake any wheel idependantly it is to stop slides and spins.
so what happens when both rear wheels are spinning equaly (LSD) the front aren't slipping (I find it hard to belive the wheel speed sensors have the resolution to determin which direction the car is headed when the driver has started to wind on oposite lock)
how dose the car know which way the car is sliding?

cgrx

TSC = Traction Control
DSC= Stability/Skid

PUR NRG

Remember the problems people had trying to dyno the car? When it senses the rear wheels are travelling faster than the front it reduces engine output. It can also apply brakes to the rear wheels to regain grip. Again, this is all done with wheel sensors only. It doesn't need to know which direction the car is going, only that it isn't getting traction on all four wheels.
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PUR NRG

I know what the acronyms stand for. Please enlighten me how traction control is different from skid control.
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Z00M RX8

There is a combined sensor which measures both yaw rate and lateral acceleration located under the center console cover about where the rear cup holders are. This location is approximately at the car's center of mass and is the point around which the car rotates in a no traction spin. This sensor along with the wheel speed sensors, the brake pressure sensor and the steering angle sensor is used to by the DSC to determine when the car is in a skid or spin and what to do about it.

DSC is traction control / ABS with spin/slide info added into the mix.

takahashi

Traction control and DSC are loose terms... VDC ESP and all the other short form --- you have to specify in your specification.

It is more like " I am going to Chinese lunch " rather than telling people " I am having shark fin soup on rice "

rotarenvy

thanks ZOOM RX8.

so now has anyone noticed a difference in behaviour between std and modified suspension?

Taka get back to the track and give us a report on your new goodies

Sputnik

Yes, alot of these terms are thrown around pretty generically, and mean different things in different cars.

But as has been touched on already:

-ABS is limited to keeping a wheel from locking under braking alone. It only senses individual wheel spin. 4-channel ABS (what you find in most cars up to 10 years old) will individually control each wheel, meaning that if only the right front locks up, the ABS will only activate on the right front wheel.

-Traction Control (or whatever acronym used by the carmaker) is limited in that it only senses wheel spin on driving wheels, and will only decrease power to minimize slippage. This can be done with throttle control, ignition or fuel retard, and some vehicles integrate with the ABS system to apply brakes on the power driven wheels to decrease power.

-Dynamic Stability (or whatever acronym used by the carmaker) is many many different things in different cars. But generally, stability control senses individual wheel speed (like ABS), steering angle (position of the steering wheel), throttle position, and at least one accelerometer that measures pitch, roll, and yaw. Some additionally base reactions on road speed, suspension travel, brake application, engine speed, and a host of other options. Dynamic stability systems can brake an individual wheel, and adjust throttle settings (especially on a drive-by-wire throttle system) to help keep a car under control.

One note about DSC: In some sports cars, there are beginning to be different settings to control the intrusiveness of a dynamic stability system, and you can set it to be performance oriented instead of safety oriented. But an experienced driver will still be faster than a novice in such cars, because one of the biggest aspects to getting around a track fast is positioning the car correctly, following the proper line, keeping momentum, driving smoothly, and all sorts of other things that a dynamic stability system has no part of. A DSC will keep you from wrecking, but it won't make you fast.

---jps