brillo

The December Car and Driver issue has a review of the best 11 performance tires that I wanted to share as many people always want good reviews of tires that are somewhat professional and independent. The test was done with a BMW 325i on loan from the Tirerack with 225/45/17 tires, which is good as they are a fairly close approximation of our tire size. This type of intense review hasn’t been done by C&D since 1989, so this might be a good thread to sticky. All the tests were done without regard to comfort or road noise, which I kinda disagree with, but nonetheless here are the results.

The formula used to calc the scores was dry performance (x2) for a max of 600pts + wet performance for a max of 300pts + Price for a max of 100pts + treadwear for a max of 100pts = total

The first number next to the name is the dry performance rank, the second number is the wet performance rank, the third is the dry skid pad (g) rating, the fourth the the treadwear grade, and finally, I added the weight of a 225/45/18 size (since that’s our size) to the info below

1. Goodyear Eagle f1 GS-D3 – 3, 1, 0.95, 280,
2. Continental ContiSportContact 2 – 10, 2, 0.92, 280,
3. Yokohama Advan Neova AD07 – 1, 5, 0.94, 180, 26lbs
4. Michelin Pilot Sport SP2 – 3, 4, 0.93, 220 (not available in a 225/45)
5. Hankook Ventus R-S2 – 8, 8, 0.94, 200, (not available in a 225/45)
6. Dunlop SP Sport Maxx – 9, 6, 0.92, 240, (not available in a 225/45)
7. Pirelli P Zero Rosso Asimmetrico – 6, 7, 0.92, 220, 21lbs
8. Toyo Proxes T1-R – 11, 9, 0.88, 280, 23lbs
9. Bridgestone Potenza RE050A – 5, 3, 0.93, 140, 26lbs
10. BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KD – 2, 10, 0.95, 200, 25lbs
11. Kumho Ecsta MX – 7, 11, 0.92, 220 (not available in a 225/45)


Ok, at this point if you’re a little confused and surprised by their rankings, I was too. What you have to realize here is that the difference in final score between the highest and lowest overall was 5.7% from (990.7 to 1050.4) in other words, the tires were all pretty damn good.

I was surprised to see the Toyo’s and the Kumho’s so low down the list, given the auto-x folks who rave about them. In addition, I think that you have to look somewhat at the comfort of each tire, as most of us drive our cars to work everyday as well as get a little crazy on the weekends. For our cars, I think weight is an important factor, which I why I got the Pirelli’s, and I am quite happy with them.

For ***** and grins, I took the dry and wet performance numbers and ranked the tires with a 70/30 split just to see how the numbers changed. Kinda interesting when you take the price and treadwear out of the equation.

1. Yokohama Advan Neova AD07 – 1, 5, 0.94, 180, 26lbs
2. Goodyear Eagle f1 GS-D3 – 3, 1, 0.95, 280,
3. Michelin Pilot Sport SP2 – 3, 4, 0.93, 220 (not available in a 225/45)
4. Bridgestone Potenza RE050A – 5, 3, 0.93, 140, 26lbs
5. BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KD – 2, 10, 0.95, 200, 25lbs
6. Pirelli P Zero Rosso Asimmetrico – 6, 7, 0.92, 220, 21lbs
7. Continental ContiSportContact 2 – 10, 2, 0.92, 280,
8. Hankook Ventus R-S2 – 8, 8, 0.94, 200, (not available in a 225/45)
9. Dunlop SP Sport Maxx – 9, 6, 0.92, 240, (not available in a 225/45)
10. Kumho Ecsta MX – 7, 11, 0.92, 220 (not available in a 225/45)
11. Toyo Proxes T1-R – 11, 9, 0.88, 280, 23lbs

Ok, thats enough Excel for a Sunday, hope you guys enjoy all this.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

Thats the only article I read in the issue so far. The problem is they only tested tires available from Tire Rack. There are other tires out there that should have been involved in this comparison.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Falken 615's

crossbow

Not to mention the winning tire also has an ad in their magazine...

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

Toyo isn't sold by Tire Rack.

Having said that, I'm a little dissapointed that the T1-Rs placed last in dry grip. But, remember that most people don't rave about the Toyo's autocross performance (they shouldn't, since there are better choices available), they rave about their performance over real (and imperfect) roads.

I do have to wonder about the setup procedure. For example, T1-Rs take several hundered miles (some say more than 300) to fully break in. This is true in my experience. Also, how did they make sure they had the optimum tire pressure and alignmnet for each tire? Did they use pyrometers? Or some kind of trial-and-error? Every tire will have a different sweet spot. If you add a few psi to the T1-Rs they turn in sharper but loose grip.

Anyway, I'm a bit sensitive I guess since I have T1-Rs on my '8 and my Miata. I find them to be an excellent tire but I know they are down a bit on grip compared to the 615s or Yoks. .07g seems more than I would have guessed, though.

Ole Spiff

Why didn't they use the current BF Goodrich KDW2 instead of the older KD? The KD was number 2 in dry performance and tied for number 1 with the Goodyear Eagle. The KDW2 adds great wet handling capability (hence the "w" for "wet" added to the KD) so it would have been much higher in that area too. Given a much better wet rating which the KDW2 has, it would have been in the top 3, maybe even number 1.

RotorManiac

damn, I like the toyos but the results are a bit shocking. I thought they were the lightest ones too, but those pirellis must be pretty good....

brillo

Most of the tires performed about where I expected, with the Kumho's and Toyo's being really disappointing. I imagine that Toyo saw this and probably freaked out and went into damage control mode as the T1-R is really there halo tire.

I wonder how much breakin was done on these tires, b/c if they just slapped them on and hit the track, that could through off the results. I don't recall C&D saying how much they broken them in. In fairness, driving them all for 300mi on the same car would be kinda tough i guess.

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

Yes, my point exactly. It would be hard to break all the tires in extensively, and if they didn't do that, and they didn't experiment with tire pressure on a tire-by-tire basis, then it's not a realistic test.

<edit> But, at least the Yoks and KDs placed 1st and 2nd in dry performance, which is what I would expect.

dmp

Bridgestone S03...amazing tires

Kwullen

I was going to add the same thing. They listed other top of the lines from other manufacturers, but the RE series is definitely not the best thing Bridgy makes. The S03's are phenominal on my 8, I have almost 24k on this set and will definitely buy another. I goofed up on rotations and the rears got too thin to put on the front, so I'll buy a pair.
They are absolutely unbelievable in the rain, and since I live in Florida..........
I went to 245/40 and had to drop to 29 PSI front and rear, as they initially wore in the center. Love that tread depth gauge, I caught it in 5k miles.
I got to do a few laps at Road Atlanta on a private test day and was really impressed. Great control, turn ins and predictability. I have thousands of miles in at Road Atlanta in formula cars and the stock street RX8 with these tires just blew me away. I know of very few full race IT cars I couldn't walk with this show room stock RX8. My buddy was not happy, I did 6 laps in the 8 and bested his best lap by almost a second, in his E Prod Alfa Spider. With the security of a cage, real belts and about 20 more laps, I know I could get under 1:40, right at 2.0 Liter Vintage Porsche times (914/6).
I forgot to add how great the Hawk HPS pads are. They also seem to make alot less dust than the OEM pads. My wheels like them.
I wish I didn't have to commute on roads too rough for the MS suspension.

BlueEyes

all the manufactureres advertise in Car and Driver.

Ike showed me this site yesterday. User reviews, similar results. The Goodyear is a fantastic tire. A freind replaced a set of AVS Sports with them and he raves about them.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/survey...ay.jsp?type=MP

BlueEyes

As far as the Toyo's. I have run RA-1's on quite a few cars, and if you don't shave them down, they suck. Maybe similar with the T1-R's?

TownDrunk

Thanks for taking the time to put that together... Pretty cool. I can see the Rossos and the RE050s as fairly even, with the added 5lb/tire weight savings with the Rossos leaning me in that direction when it's time to get new ones. Though... I'd have loved to see the S03s in there too.

Fanman

The KDW2's would not have as good dry handling charateristics as the KD's did. The KD's are specifically designed to give maximum dry traction, the HDW2's give good dry traction & good wet traction. It would have been a tradeoff in one area, for another.

Ole Spiff

Tire Rack rates the KD at 9.5 (out of 10) for dry traction and the KDW2 at 9.3; the Eagle D3 was rated at 9.2. Wet traction for the KD was 6.5 vs 8.7 for the KDW2. The Goodyear was 9.1 so the KDW2 is slightly better than the D3 dry and slightly worse in the wet.

The difference of .2 dry handling between the KD and KDW2 is more than offset by the considerably greater wet handling. As an all-around tire the KDW2 is a better choice I think than the KD, because unless you live in the Sahara desert, you're going to have to drive in the rain at least some of the time.

Spin9k

I don't think it's actually very useful to say "Tire Rack rates this 9.5 or 9.7" and "there is so little dif between this and that rating." My understanding is these are consumer ratings of the tires after they bought them but with a wide variance in miles of use (50 miles use & 1000s of miles use comments mixed together) and these are from the people who just paid there money to buy that particular tire for use on a wide range of different cars.

Beyond that they are comparing to what they had before which is likely old tires to new tires, they are grouped according to what particular tire they bought, so comparisons between different tires is, well, not very scientific. Plus what are the driving condition, what are the drivers rating exactly...generally I think these are fairly useless for all intents and purposes.

Now Tire Racks TEST are something else. They are relatively consistant and done in the same place with the same car. I think they are something you could hang your hat on for true real world results that you might expect to get and esp. if the car they are testing with is similar in size and layout to your own. Just some food for thought.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Not as good as the Yoko Advan Neova in the dry and the Falken has poor wet performance, IMO the 615 wouldn't have done well in the test

the Advan Neova are very expensive which hurt it in the test, the dry performance also increases dramatically if shaved, of course that hurts the wet performance more, right now the Neova is the hot choice for the street tire racing classes

Fanman

They also rate things in different categories as well. In looking at some of their ratings I am somewhat skeptical. From the personal experiences of some of the posters the KDW2's were only slightly better than the RE040's or Pirelli P Zero Nero's in the dry, but in the ratings they are supposed to be better than the Pole Positions. I don't think so.

Not a bad tire, as I would think about getting them myself but From reading the reviews all over the place the other tires do give better dry traction.

And yes I am in the Sahara, otherwise known as California. If you are in a place like Vegas, or Arizona wet traction is of minimal importance.

Slick8

Consumer Reports test 11/03 on UHPAS. I think they're more experienced/qualified at making a scientific evaluation.

The C&D #2 rated tire was the Conti, there is no way a Conti is better than the Toyos. I think C&D's eval sucked, they ever were surprise that the Conti made #2, go figure .

Looks like the Toyo T1-S (older) are better than the T1-R tires (newer) . Now it makes sense , autox'ers having been raving about the T1-S but the C&D tested the T1-Rs and they were surprisingly inferior. Just trying to make sense of this...

Rank, Brand, Model & Cost
1 Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3 $168
2 Toyo Proxes T1-S $160
3 Continental ContiSportContact 2 $170
4 Michelin Pilot Sport Note: Discontinued. $180
5 Dunlop SP Sport 9000 $140
6 Pirelli PZero Nero $140
7 Bridgestone Potenza S-03 Pole Position $180
8 Hankook Ventus Sport K104 $115
9 Yokohama AVS ES100 $100
10 BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KDW $145
11 Firestone Firehawk SZ50 EP Note: Discontinued. $175
12 Kumho ECSTA Supra 712 $120
13 Sumitomo HTRZ II $90

therm8

IIRC, KDW2's always post better lap times at tirerack than the S-03s, wet or dry. I ignore tire rack's ratings and just look at the lap times. They also posted better dry times than the goodyears and only fractionally slower wet times.

The big tradeoff for the KDW2s is noise. Their quiet for the first 8-10k miles, but start getting louder and louder, and by 25k they are very loud.

TooBIG

I have Michelin Pilot Sport PS2's.
They are amazing... IMHO
This list adds options for me to consider next round.
Good post !

-B

L8APEX

so in your opinion, would the toyos be a good every day tire for the 8. Not for autocross or track use, but everyday driving. And how long does a set last, 15k-20k miles? I am in need of new street tires, and had been looking at the toyos, just want to get some feedback before buying. I trusted tire racks rating system when i bought my last tires, and I won't do that again. Word of mouth from a fellow 8 owner is much better IMO.

thanks.

toca

funny i think my falken st 615 ou tgrip all those.. frass roots motorspots did a track test and most of thos tires where on the list plus a few more and the st 615 had best track times and best lat g i forgot the tire size they used.

crossbow

I would have to agree with the assesment that the T1-S is superior to the T1-R. I ran the T1-S for a bout 20k miles, and I have T1-R's now, and they definitely provide less dry and wet grip then the T1-S's did .

I'm actually considering selling my T1-R's and getting some hankook Z212's.