I tried searching the forum for knowledge on what I might use to replace the OEM brake pads. There are lots of threads here that mention brake pads but as a relative newbie on performance parts, I am still confused. There are threads on Hawk, PBR, EBC pads as well as the Mazdaspeed pads.

I use my 8 as a daily driver and am looking to improve on three things.

1) eliminate the squeal. (yeah I know about the TSB. It didn't work...)
2) reduce dust (yeah I know, the holy grail and there is no way of measuring before and after)
3) prepare for some track time (I am registering for a June event at VIR)

Depending on how the track time goes, I may very well do it further and may even add some local autocross events for fun.

What experiences do you all have?

TIA

Craig

 

I use EBC red stuff and my 8 doesn't see track time. They are noisy when cold/dirty/wet; however the noise goes away after enough heat has been generated. They amount of dust they generate is noticeably less than the factory-pre TSB pads. I recommend them.

 

I got the Hawk HPS brake pad. Didn't notice a huge difference but I already had switched out to Goodrich Stainless Steel brakelines, which made a huge difference already. You have companies like Mazda Speed, Hawk, EBC. all are pretty good choices.

 

Damn, my pads are going on as I type per the TSB. It doesn't work with the new part?

 

I too am experiencing the squeal from the front brake. When I took it to the dealer last week they said that they did not replace the pads because they could not "verify customer concern" at least that's how it read on the invoice.All they told me was that they were still in the green status,which I could have told them. I've only had it since October. However, when I left the dealership to go home I got a whole two blocks and they squealed again. I wonder now if they even took it for a drive to check for this or if they're just being difficult.
I guess my question is, When it's a TSB does the dealer need to verify it first before the work is performed?

 

THey f'd me out of the free pads because my front pads were worn down 'too' much. Two separate dealers told me this so I moved around.

 

Look at a TSB as a known solution for a possible problem. Key word being 'possible' Not everyone has squealing front brakes and Mazda doesn't want to replace parts that aren't a problem. In other words, it sucks to be us....

 

I took the tech for a drive and he listened to the squealing little pigs and he said yes that is embarrassing. Fixed the rattle in my instrument cluster and told me they heard another rattle coming from my airbag and fixed it also, realigned my exhaust pipes. One was sticking out further then the other one. Said the headlights would have to wait. Waiting on the go ahead from Mazda. Also, my center console. When I showed the one guy you could slide it up and completely take it off he agreed but i don't think the mechanic was told because when i asked him on the phone today he said its suppose to slide up and open. I said no, you can take it completely off so they had to order the part. All in all a much better service then them idiots where I bought the car.

 

tiggerlee,

If your original pads do squeak and have a reasonable # of miles on them, they have to replace them per the TSB. Make sure you have a copy of the TSB in hand when you go in for service. Even though my advisor had heard of the problem he still took a copy of the TSB and thanked me for bringing it in. They took my word for it and didnt even verify the squeak.

There is no reason for them to deny you service.

 

i do brake service on a variety of vehicles on a daily basis. when isolating a brake noise problem one must begin with an understanding of how sounds are created. sound is produced when objects vibrate - pretty simple. it is rare, in my experience that an OEM pad will be the direct cause of squeeling. more often than not, the noise is due to a lack of proper lubrication of contact points in the brake caliper/drum assembly. contact points are not to be confused with friction points.

most OEM's and aftermarket parts suppliers reccomend an application of moly lube or other suitable high temperature, high pressure lubricant at the appropriate contact points. they also reccomend lubricating caliper slides with a high temperature silicone grease. silicone is used because it won't cause the several rubber parts within the braking componants to swell and possibly fail.

often times these lubricants are not applied at the time of manufacture - perhaps because the engineers are satisfied with their factory level of assembly but reccomend lubrication of parts at service intervals because real world conditions will have a considerable impact on the qaulity of the parts being reused.

the point of this is that it would not surprise me if the true nature of the required work is nothing more than a caliper lube service and new pads are thrown on because its cheap enough to do that while everything is apart.

my question regarding these new pads is directed towards the rotors. are the rotors machined at all in this TSB service? i hope they are, otherwise just replacing the pads will eventually cause a squeel to reappear.

Ray

 

They're expensive but they're awesome . . . Project Mu Betas.

 

Thx! I made a copy of the TSB and plan on taking it in next week. The squealing has gotten more noticable or maybe I just seem to notice it more lately, but it must be fixed. I hate squeaky brakes!

 

how many miles is a resonable amount of miles? i am almost at 10,000 miles and i noticed that mine have begun squeaking now too? should i print out the tsb and take it in for service?

 

Another product you may want to consider is a ceramic compound pad. The ceramic compound will not only eliminate the noise issues, they will also help with the dust. High content ceramic pads produce a light tan colored dust which is much finer and less noticeable. Also,ceramic compound pads provide better heat dissipation qualities so that you are not transferring as much heat into the rotors. Heat is what causes rotors to warp and vibrate.

I have to agree with GTRay about proper installation. We talk to people everyday that want to know why there pads are not working "the way they are suppose to". Most of the time we find out the rotors were not replaced or even turned. some were not even cleaned. I would also venture to say that a majority of the caliper were not lubricated or anti squeal gel used on the brake pad backing plate. We have found that a majority of the time the problems stem from incorrect installation than product defect.

 

Another vote for EBC 'Red Stuff'

 

Whoa Guy!!!

you better check with your engineers on this statement. Braking componants are designed to handle VERY EXTREME heat loads. warping of a rotor rarely occurs from normal or even "spirited" driving. warping of a brake rotor usually occurs because of excessive lateral runnout which later progresses into varying disc thickness and the variation of disc thickness is what you feel as a pulsing pedal or "warped rotor." Turning a rotor on a bench lathe is a sure way to cut excessive lateral runnout into the rotor. it won't show up immediately because you are cutting the rotor with parallel bits - the rotor will be fine for a few days until the pads scrub high and low spots into the rotor.

as far as heat getting into the rotors is concerned - you want to MAXIMIZE heat transfer when you are braking. the ceramics you are referring to allow the pad to retain its properties at HIGHER temperatures. the more heat you can get into the rotors means you are transferring more of the car's forward energy into heat which means you are doing a better job at slowing it down.

a common misconception about slotted and vented rotors is that they are designed that way to help keep the rotor cool - quite the opposite. they are designed to help the rotor get much hotter. the slotts and grooves and drilled holes are all designed to release the gasses that develope between the pad and the rotor. if these gasses have difficulty in escaping then they will act as a lubricant - not good! you want those gasses out of the way in order to maximize rotor and pad contact thereby increasing heat transfer.

when it comes to modern vented rotors, they are there to sacrifice themselves on the alter of speed - they are designed to take the abuse of hard driving.

with that said there is a point where you can "warp" a rotor by getting it too hot but the damage is not from getting the rotor too hot it's from getting it too hot while it's sandwiched between a wheel hub and a torqued wheel. uneven and improper torque will warp a rotor in no time flat.

also, cooling a hot rotor off too quickly will cause it to warp. just like a frying pan quenched in a sink full of water.

always remember - you don't feel the warping of a rotor, floating calipers are designed to cope with lateral runout - at least yo the point you don't feel the effects through the brake pedal - its when the excessive lateral runout progresses to the point of variable disc thickness that you get that all-too familiar pulsing brake pedal.

Ray

 

The Porterfield R-4 Carbon Kevlar pads have a unique, integrally molded ceramic heat shield designed specifically to minimize heat transfer in high temperature applications keeping caliper temperature at proper levels.

http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/about.html

 

not the same...

they are referring to a heat sheild integrated with the backing plate. you don't want heat energy getting into the caliper, you want it getting into the rotor. the caliper and rotor are two different machines.

heat in the caliper is what leads to brake fade as that heat is transferred into the brake fluid. as brake fluid gets hot it can boil. DOT 3 and DOT 4 are glycol based fluids which means they can mix with water quite easily. infact, it's not uncommon for a brake hydraulic system to contain as much as 10-15% water derived from outside sources. DOT 3 and 4 can even contain up to 30% of its volume in water!

those numbers can be staggering when you compare the boiling points of brake fluid to water. in most street applications, it's not the fluid that boils first, it's the water in the fluid that boils and causes brake fade.

Ray

 

You must have went to the same Mazda dealer I went to.

Still sqealing.

 

I use Hawk HP+ on the track, still have my OEM pads for the street.

 

We've found Carbotech Bobcats to be some of the best street pads available. Ceramic based, low dust, quiet, and outstanding fade resistance. Additionally, like all Carbotech pads, the dust they give off isn't as corrosive as many other brands (and certainly no more than OEM). They are NOT, however, a track pad, and there really is no such thing as a true 'all-purpose' street/track pad. Bobcats are about as close as we've seen, but the fact remains. There are track pads that are very 'streetable' and work fairly well cold and don't squeak too much (Carbotech Panther Plus and XP8s are what we use), but if you want 'proper' OEM levels of silence you won't find it with a real track pad.

If you have never been to the track or have only been a time or two, an aggressive street pad like the Bobcat would probably suffice. But once you get more comfortable, you learn that you can make up a LOT of time under braking, and you'll eventually cook any street pad. The RX-8 is better-equipped than most from the factory, being a light car with relatively large brakes, but they will fade pretty quickly with an experienced driver behind the wheel. Unless you have track pads and good fluid, in which case they work quite well .

The above paragraph does not apply to autox (where aggressive street pads are the ideal choice), but only to lapping events on road courses.

 

Throughout the entire heat range, the carbon kevlar material will give extremely consistent modulation and predictably. This is truly the most rotor friendly racing brake pad material ever. Good for road courses, oval track, rally, vintage racing, autocross, club events or professional racing events.

Our 40 year winning history in road racing gives us the knowledge and experience needed in helping you select the best brake pad for you car.