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Old 10-04-2010, 12:49 PM
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hey, Jedi54, nice wheels!

Our blue beastie, 2004, failed it's safety inspection, the rotors are shot, rusty, maybe cracked. still stops good in spite of minimal pads on front, but we were told that no aftermarket rotors work well and that we need to do original replacement rotors, don't know about pads. I would think that if aftermarket rotors are so bad, I would have seen this here, so we're not sure what to do. Help/advice would be appreciated, thanks.
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Old 10-04-2010, 01:03 PM
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aftermarket rotors are not 'bad'. they're lying to you.
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Old 10-05-2010, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by 04blue beauty View Post
Our blue beastie, 2004, failed it's safety inspection, the rotors are shot, rusty, maybe cracked. still stops good in spite of minimal pads on front, but we were told that no aftermarket rotors work well and that we need to do original replacement rotors, don't know about pads. I would think that if aftermarket rotors are so bad, I would have seen this here, so we're not sure what to do. Help/advice would be appreciated, thanks.
Comlete and utter nonsense. Rotors are only shot when they are worn below the minimum thickness (which requires measuring with a micrometer), or if they are cracked which is not likely on a daily driver unless you also track the car (and you would certainly know it if they were cracked). Rust is irrelevant. Pad deposits can be scraped off or machined off. Aftermarket rotors work as well as OEM rotors, blanks are best, slots don't really do much, and drilled rotors may be more likely to crack and don't do anything either.
Centric makes a good inexpensive aftermarket OEM blank rotor among many others.
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Old 11-13-2010, 06:16 PM
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Great Thread. I have a problem. I recently did my brakes and I am using cross drilled and slotted rotors from Brakelabs, and Hawk HP Plus pads. My previous setup was the same cross drilled and slotted rotors from Brakelabs but I used Bendix Ceramic pads from Autozone. I put them on and drove it and there was a lot of squeal. I figured I'd drive it and let them wear in, in hopes that they'd be fine. Its been 2 weeks and so I called Hawk Performance and told them my issue. The guy told me to take some sand paper and sand down the pads and then put them back on and take it on a road go up to 50-55 and go down to 5mph without engaging the ABS, I still had the issue. I went back into my garage and opened them up again and noticed the sliders that the caliper bolts onto weren't moving so I went to autozone and got some lubrication and lubricated it and it slides better but I still have that issue and I am finally a bit frustrated. I did spray the rotors down with brake parts cleaner a few times and took a paper towel and wiped it down too. The clips are in the right order and are not sticking out and touching the rotor at all so I thought of just about everything. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 11-13-2010, 07:10 PM
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so you only changed pads or rotors too?
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Old 11-13-2010, 08:37 PM
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Both man.
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Old 11-14-2010, 11:21 AM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by renesisking View Post
Great Thread. I have a problem. I recently did my brakes and I am using cross drilled and slotted rotors from Brakelabs, and Hawk HP Plus pads. My previous setup was the same cross drilled and slotted rotors from Brakelabs but I used Bendix Ceramic pads from Autozone. I put them on and drove it and there was a lot of squeal. I figured I'd drive it and let them wear in, in hopes that they'd be fine. Its been 2 weeks and so I called Hawk Performance and told them my issue. The guy told me to take some sand paper and sand down the pads and then put them back on and take it on a road go up to 50-55 and go down to 5mph without engaging the ABS, I still had the issue. I went back into my garage and opened them up again and noticed the sliders that the caliper bolts onto weren't moving so I went to autozone and got some lubrication and lubricated it and it slides better but I still have that issue and I am finally a bit frustrated. I did spray the rotors down with brake parts cleaner a few times and took a paper towel and wiped it down too. The clips are in the right order and are not sticking out and touching the rotor at all so I thought of just about everything. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Brake squeal is caused by vibrations between the caliper piston and the back of the pad backing plate, not by the pad face and rotor interface. To minimize or completely eliminate squeal you have 2 tools,
1. high temp synthetic brake lube
2. the OEM pad shims

These 2 items work to dampen the vibrations between the piston face and the backing plate and work to minimize or eliminate the vibrations that cause squeal. You likely didn't use the OEM shims when you switched to the Hawk pads which are known to be noisy (some pads are more prone to squeal than others). Also, based on your description you only lubed the sliders and not the top, bottom, and most importantly the backs of the pads (obviously you don't want any grease on the pad friction face).

Get some OEM shims from the dealer if you didn't keep them, and put high temp synthetic brake grease between the shims and the pad backing plate, between the piston face and the shims, and on the tops and bottoms of the backing plate where it sits in the keepers. This should minimize or eliminate squealing.
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Old 11-14-2010, 11:49 AM
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Oh ok. My old pads had thin mettalic pieces which I decided to forgo so I will put them back on and re grease the pads. Thanks justjim, I appreciate it.
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Old 03-12-2011, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Alucard View Post
On Racingbrakes website it states that:

Weight Comparison
One-piece 18.5 lbs.
Two-piece 14.1 lbs.

and thats for the stock size


thecow135: you are correct... the sport and GT models on the AT's have the same suspension/brakes as the MT's
Do the 2004 AT Grand Touring models have sport or standard suspension??
Just wanting to double check cause I'm doing my brakes tomorrow.
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Old 03-12-2011, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 2ZZGE05 View Post
Do the 2004 AT Grand Touring models have sport or standard suspension??
Just wanting to double check cause I'm doing my brakes tomorrow.
The AT Grand Touring have the sport suspension pkg.
Kinda of a day late and you may have already found this out.
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Old 03-12-2011, 07:42 PM
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I forgot about thsi thread.

So I did what justjim said and got OEM shims for my brakes. I noticed that the squeal was gone but it came back after a while and I still have it under light braking but the squeal is gone in heavy braking. I called up my rotor company and pad company (HAWK) and they said that it is probably just the pads and their compound and that race pads are louder. They told me that I should probably get some regular pads for the street and just switch over to my race pads when I track.

Also, the rotor company (brakelabs) said the same thing and that if my rotors have a grinding noise then I might need new rotors. Which I think my rotors are wearing a bit. I'd like to run my rotors for a while and try different pads, perhaps the OEM. What does everyone think?
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Old 03-14-2011, 09:31 AM
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Note on pad buildup on rotors:
I had this happen on my last session at Laguna Seca. I was getting to where i wasn't chicken lifting going through turn 1 and breaking pretty hard into 2. The pedal started pulsing, car shaking, thought it was a warpped rotor (I previously had a 300ZXTT that realy did warp rotors). Looked at the rotors after i got off the track and the were all blue and had some smear marks on them. Figured i would just drive it and see what happens. Well a week later with no special actions taken, its fine. Brakes are back smooth as ever and they don,t squeal like they did before the track day. This is on OEM pads.

Moral of the story, if your brakes squeal go to Laguna Seca and fix them.
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Old 03-14-2011, 10:02 AM
  #113  
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^ think you got the moral wrong. If you go to Lagua Seca and drive fast, use real track pads/ not OEM pads or you'll get rotor deposit/melt the pads. Your pulsing pedal was likey just your ABS, even with traction control off, your ABS will work.
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Old 03-14-2011, 10:18 PM
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You are right that track pads would be a good upgrade befor the next track day. But the pulsing i was talking about was not the ABS. The first session that day was in pouring rain and i found out how well the ABS and DSC worked and what they feel like. As the tarck dried out I turned the DSC off and started pushing harder. After the last session the brakes pulsed for the whole 300 Mi. trip home and slowely went away over the next week.
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Old 03-22-2011, 04:44 AM
  #115  
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justjim,

first of all thanks for this FAQ and your time.
The FAQ gave answers to the majority of the question I had about rotors and pads as I am planning to change them.

As I am "daily driver with only the occaisional spirited driving" after you FAQ I decided to buy OEM pads only.

As regards rotor I refer to your words "Aftermarket rotors work as well as OEM rotors, blanks are best, slots don't really do much, and drilled rotors may be more likely to crack and don't do anything either. Centric makes a good inexpensive aftermarket OEM blank rotor among many others. "

1) Do I understand you proprely that I will feel no difference if I buy blank Centric rotors intead of OEM rotors? Or OEM rotors are bit better than Centric?

2) I am really worry about buying cheaper Centric rotors (comparing to the OEM) if they do not provide the same safety comparing with OEM. Do you thing Centric rotors the same good as OEM rotors?

3) Have you used Centric rotors?

4) Whether pair Centric rotors with OEM pads is decent one?

5) There are 2 versions of each Centric rotor: (1) Premium Brake Rotor-Preferred and (2) Power Alloy Discs.
Could you please comment what is the difference and which one to choose best?

6) I have front sport suspension rotors with Automatic transmission. Kindly ask you to confirm that I have choosen properly the set of rotors for my RX8:

Front - Part number - 120.45071 (Sport Susp; A/T);



Rear - Part number - 120.45072 (All)



Many thanks for the help in advance!

Last edited by Wizard-3000; 03-22-2011 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 03-22-2011, 12:25 PM
  #116  
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Wizard 3000
The Centric rotors are a good choice for an OEM replacement. The ones you posted are a good choice. They make a power slot which is the same rotor with slots, I wouldn't bother to pay for slots. I used the Centric blanks on my previous FWD Acura which was a lot harder on brakes than the better braked Mazda RX8. I put about 16 track days on them in addition to about 50,000 miles. I use them on our Lemons racecar which only sees track time. I'm still on OEM rotors on my Mazda with 90,000 miles and 6 track days. You will not notice any difference with Centric blanks compared to the OEM.

In my opinion people worry too much about their rotors, and often make unsubstantiated claims to make themselves feel better about having spent obscene amounts of money on rotors. To me the only real improvement in the one-piece cast iron rotor is curved vanes which are available for higher cost. Two-piece rotors are an improvement for cars that see track time but the RX8 has excellent brakes and doesn't really need them unless the car is heavily modified. Track pads and ducting are more practical and cheaper. I track my RX8 with Cobalt track pads and R-compound tires and daily drive it with OEM pads all on the same OEM rotors. When they wear too thin or begin to crack I will replace them with cheap blank rotors, probably Centric.

Other people will have different opinions, many of which are influenced by marketing claims, something they saw on a more expensive car, or as I said above to justify money they already spent.
удача

Last edited by justjim; 03-22-2011 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 03-22-2011, 04:08 PM
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justjim, thanks for you reply to my post!

Following you post I have made a search on Centric rotors for RX8.
Here is the table of the Centric rotors from the Centric's website:



I was trying to find Power Alloy Discs in onlinestores as the next Power Slot Slotted Brake Rotor are more expensive and differs only by slots which I don't need.
As I understand Power Alloy Discs should be better model than C-TEK Standard Rotor.

Unfortunately in all stores I called to I was told that they do not see anywhere Power Alloy Discs in stock.
So basically I have to buy either C-TEK Standard Rotor or the more expensive Power Slot Slotted Brake Rotor.

What do you think, what should I choose?
What would you do in my place?

Thanks in advance for you reply.

Last edited by Wizard-3000; 03-22-2011 at 04:16 PM. Reason: additions
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Old 03-22-2011, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by justjim View Post
... To me the only real improvement in the one-piece cast iron rotor is curved vanes which are available for higher cost. Two-piece rotors are an improvement for cars that see track time but the RX8 has excellent brakes and doesn't really need them unless the car is heavily modified. Track pads and ducting are more practical and cheaper...
All your other sage advice is spot on, but here, not so much. There's one piece and there's two piece rotors. I doubt many would argue one piece stop better, but you seem to miss the "reason to be". Two piece weigh considerably less, and therefore, as a heatsink, they are designed for better cooling to keep temps down, making them even more expensive for sure.

But the real point of improvement is weight reduction, and sprung spinning weight at that - and on all four corners of the car. I'm sure you'd agree pounds are hard to come by, and this is easy.

So the cost is not spent to improve braking but to lose weight and improve suspension dynamics. Modified or not is not the reason to be... and need is relative

Last edited by Spin9k; 03-22-2011 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 03-22-2011, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Wizard-3000 View Post
justjim, thanks for you reply to my post!

Following you post I have made a search on Centric rotors for RX8.
Here is the table of the Centric rotors from the Centric's website:



I was trying to find Power Alloy Discs in onlinestores as the next Power Slot Slotted Brake Rotor are more expensive and differs only by slots which I don't need.
As I understand Power Alloy Discs should be better model than C-TEK Standard Rotor.

Unfortunately in all stores I called to I was told that they do not see anywhere Power Alloy Discs in stock.
So basically I have to buy either C-TEK Standard Rotor or the more expensive Power Slot Slotted Brake Rotor.

What do you think, what should I choose?
What would you do in my place?

Thanks in advance for you reply.
The Power Slots if you could find them and if you can afford them are a better rotor mostly because of the directional vanes. However, for a daily driver with OEM pads the C-Tek standard rotors are more than adequate and I would get them instead of the slotted ones. If the slotted ones come with directional vanes that would be the reason to get them, not the slots which are uneccesary.

It's all a question of how much money you want to spend and what you get in return. From a stopping distance standpoint, the C-teks are just as good. If you like a little bling and knowing you have directional vanes makes you feel warm and gooey inside then go for it. Otherwise don't lose any sleep over it.
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Old 03-22-2011, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Spin9k View Post
All your other sage advice is spot on, but here, not so much. There's one piece and there's two piece rotors. I doubt many would argue one piece stop better, but you seem to miss the "reason to be". Two piece weigh considerably less, and therefore, as a heatsink, they are designed for better cooling to keep temps down, making them even more expensive for sure.

But the real point of improvement is weight reduction, and sprung spinning weight at that - and on all four corners of the car. I'm sure you'd agree pounds are hard to come by, and this is easy.

So the cost is not spent to improve braking but to lose weight and improve suspension dynamics. Modified or not is not the reason to be... and need is relative
All of your salient points are echoed in the text of my Brake FAQ and I agree with everything you said. It's just that Wizard3000 is just doing daily driving with OEM pads and the rather large expense of 2-piece rotors seems like overkill and unecessary for his type of driving. It's a lot of money to reduce unsprung weight, better spent on lightweight wheels I would think, but you make a valid point.
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Old 03-22-2011, 11:39 PM
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justjim,
I don't even know how to thank you for your time and replies given.
Thanks a lot.
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Old 05-04-2011, 08:38 PM
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How about goove in the rotor? That would require resurfacing right?
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Old 05-05-2011, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by maxchao View Post
How about goove in the rotor? That would require resurfacing right?
Grooves aren't as big a problem as you might think. The pads just wear to match the grooves. I have 90+K miles on my OEM rotors and a lot of track days and they are pretty groovy. My brakes are smooth as silk but they make a kind of whirring noise under hard braking that might be related to the grooves, but it's not worth the time and effort to turn the rotors. It's not the grooves I keep an eye on, it's the thickness and the surface checking from track heat cycles.
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Old 05-05-2011, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by justjim View Post
Grooves aren't as big a problem as you might think. The pads just wear to match the grooves. I have 90+K miles on my OEM rotors and a lot of track days and they are pretty groovy. My brakes are smooth as silk but they make a kind of whirring noise under hard braking that might be related to the grooves, but it's not worth the time and effort to turn the rotors. It's not the grooves I keep an eye on, it's the thickness and the surface checking from track heat cycles.
Thanks a lot. That's what I thought but as you know reading so many posts online about people turning their rotor because of grooves worries me. It is nice to have an expert for confirmation.
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Old 05-05-2011, 06:39 PM
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I bought cheap *** 30$ rotors on one car I have and they have nice ridges and grooves galore, but other than that it doesn't seem to matter much, at least for a DD car. On my RX-8 I have RB high quality rotors and before that the OEM rotors. Neither had grooves even after many many track days and much abuse. I think it's just a matter of the quality/strength of the steel used for the rotor blanks. Better, harder steel, less grooves.
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