Best way to jack the car?
#76
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Wow all this information is a bit overwhelming. I didn't think there was this much to jacking the car and removing and replacing lug nuts. On previous cars I have owned, I just used the crappy jack and tools that came with the car to loosen and tighten lug nuts. I didn't use a torque wrench, and I never had any problems. Was I just lucky, or are the risks of over/under-tightening and improperly jacking being overstated here?
Has anybody out there had success switching sets of wheels/tires using just the basic tools that came with the car and winter wheels/tires? It seems to me that just using common sense would be adequate: don't overtighten the lugs, be careful when jacking, etc.
MEGAREDS, don't you think the basic tools that came with the car would have worked just fine if the people who installed your winter wheels hadn't damaged the key?
Has anybody out there had success switching sets of wheels/tires using just the basic tools that came with the car and winter wheels/tires? It seems to me that just using common sense would be adequate: don't overtighten the lugs, be careful when jacking, etc.
MEGAREDS, don't you think the basic tools that came with the car would have worked just fine if the people who installed your winter wheels hadn't damaged the key?
#77
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Originally posted by RX8_Buckeye
....It seems to me that just using common sense would be adequate: don't overtighten the lugs...
....It seems to me that just using common sense would be adequate: don't overtighten the lugs...
A torque wrench takes the guess work out if it. I'd like to hear your common sense method of accomplishing that.
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Originally posted by pauleta
Can I lift with a floor jack from the side points without crushing the rail?
[/B]
Can I lift with a floor jack from the side points without crushing the rail?
[/B]
Originally posted by pauleta
Can I put the stands on the rail without crushing it or is there a better spot for the stands under the car?[/B]
Can I put the stands on the rail without crushing it or is there a better spot for the stands under the car?[/B]
Originally posted by pauleta
At what height should the stands be at when under the car?
[/B]
At what height should the stands be at when under the car?
[/B]
Originally posted by pauleta
The jack fits under the car. If lifting by the dif in the back, I can't have the jack coming straight back there isn't enough clearance to pump the jack. I have to angle it way to the side. Is this ok? On the front I don't think I'll have room to pump even angled.
[/B]
The jack fits under the car. If lifting by the dif in the back, I can't have the jack coming straight back there isn't enough clearance to pump the jack. I have to angle it way to the side. Is this ok? On the front I don't think I'll have room to pump even angled.
[/B]
You might want to start the whole process by using a hint also found earlier in this thread. Cut 4 pieces of 2x6 or 2x8 about a foot long. Place each directly in front of each tire and drive onto them. This will give about 1 1/2 inches additional clearance.
#79
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Without a torque wrench, how do you not overtighten the lugs nuts, but still have them tight enough to not work themselves loose?
I don't know, I just tightened them until I felt like there was too much resistance. I never had any problems with them coming loose or taking them off. I agree that the "right" way to do it is to use a torque wrench, but do you really think that most people who rotate their own wheels have a torque wrench in the garage? I'm not much of a do-it-yourself type of person, but I'm trying to learn. I would have no problem buying all these tools if things weren't tight financially.
I don't know, I just tightened them until I felt like there was too much resistance. I never had any problems with them coming loose or taking them off. I agree that the "right" way to do it is to use a torque wrench, but do you really think that most people who rotate their own wheels have a torque wrench in the garage? I'm not much of a do-it-yourself type of person, but I'm trying to learn. I would have no problem buying all these tools if things weren't tight financially.
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Originally posted by RX8_Buckeye
I didn't use a torque wrench, and I never had any problems. Was I just lucky, or are the risks of over/under-tightening and improperly jacking being overstated here?
I didn't use a torque wrench, and I never had any problems. Was I just lucky, or are the risks of over/under-tightening and improperly jacking being overstated here?
Originally posted by RX8_Buckeye
Has anybody out there had success switching sets of wheels/tires using just the basic tools that came with the car and winter wheels/tires? It seems to me that just using common sense would be adequate: don't overtighten the lugs, be careful when jacking, etc.
Has anybody out there had success switching sets of wheels/tires using just the basic tools that came with the car and winter wheels/tires? It seems to me that just using common sense would be adequate: don't overtighten the lugs, be careful when jacking, etc.
If you don't want to spring for the jack and stands, at least get the torque wrench.
#81
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I got a PM from someone who is apprehensive about how to handle winter/summer wheel issues. If you are like me and have no experience with this stuff, I totally agree it is stressful. If your concern is what wheels to buy, ask around and read the posts... by now there are dozens and you can definitely see consensus developing on what to buy. For example, I think it is generally agreed from what I've been reading that you don't want to put 18" winter wheels on the 8. 17" are lighter, cheaper and work better because they dig in snow. People also seem willing to not worry about the lack of pressure sensors on winter wheels. Until the prices drop and there are more options on rims with cut-outs for pressure sensors, I say don't sweat it... but I digress.
I have three suggestions for anyone who finds himself lost on install issues:
Option 1: Spend the money on good tools, go very slow. I did not perfectly follow my own advice here -- my cheap jack is really cheap, but otherwise things worked out. The key was being careful. I admit that I didn't like doing it alone... which brings me to Option 2...
Option 2: I am sure that if I had asked, the local shop that I found through TireRack would have used a torque wrench on the install instead of an air gun, and done it carefully - I just didn't know enough to ask and didn't take the time either. The guys there were pretty nice; in fact, one asked if he could look under the hood and gave a mini-lecture to one of his friends about the rotors. I was beaming. If you buy wheels from somewhere like TireRack, they will help you find a local shop; give the shop a call and explain that you would like the wheels put on without an air gun and would appreciate it if they would let you watch so you can get an understand of how things work (not to watch them so you can be sure they do it right -- they way you ask here really matters!).
Option 3: There are lots of people on this forum with tools and a helpful attitude. If you want to figure out how to work with your wheels, you might just post a request for help and see if someone won't offer assistance. I am not someone who feels I could confidently help someone with real problems, but anyone who wants to borrow my breaker bar and torque wrench is welcome to stop by.
Sooner of later I'm going to paint my calipers... it's only a matter of time...
I have three suggestions for anyone who finds himself lost on install issues:
Option 1: Spend the money on good tools, go very slow. I did not perfectly follow my own advice here -- my cheap jack is really cheap, but otherwise things worked out. The key was being careful. I admit that I didn't like doing it alone... which brings me to Option 2...
Option 2: I am sure that if I had asked, the local shop that I found through TireRack would have used a torque wrench on the install instead of an air gun, and done it carefully - I just didn't know enough to ask and didn't take the time either. The guys there were pretty nice; in fact, one asked if he could look under the hood and gave a mini-lecture to one of his friends about the rotors. I was beaming. If you buy wheels from somewhere like TireRack, they will help you find a local shop; give the shop a call and explain that you would like the wheels put on without an air gun and would appreciate it if they would let you watch so you can get an understand of how things work (not to watch them so you can be sure they do it right -- they way you ask here really matters!).
Option 3: There are lots of people on this forum with tools and a helpful attitude. If you want to figure out how to work with your wheels, you might just post a request for help and see if someone won't offer assistance. I am not someone who feels I could confidently help someone with real problems, but anyone who wants to borrow my breaker bar and torque wrench is welcome to stop by.
Sooner of later I'm going to paint my calipers... it's only a matter of time...
Last edited by MEGAREDS; 05-12-2004 at 12:24 AM.
#82
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Originally posted by RX8_Buckeye
[I]..... I would have no problem buying all these tools if things weren't tight financially.
[I]..... I would have no problem buying all these tools if things weren't tight financially.
You can pick up a decent Craftsman torque wrench like this one for around $50 or $60 on sale. As previously mentioned, it will prevent your from possibly warping your alloy wheels or brake rotors. Aside from using it to swap my wheels, I also used it recently when I replaced my transmission and differential fluids.
rx8cited
Last edited by rx8cited; 05-11-2004 at 09:42 PM.
#83
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Mazda increased the torque spec for wheel lug tightening in order to eliminate noises from under tightened lugs. Yes, to a degree you were lucky. Older cars with drum brakes and steel wheels could be overtightened quite a lot without causing damage other than breaking off the stud and they were easy to replace. On a car like the eight, you have aluminum wheels and steel lugs and studs. You can readily damage the wheels by overtightening.
LOL ! I find it hilarious that you're driving a loaded RX-8: "2004 RX-8 GT, Titanium, Appearance Package, Spoiler, 35% Tint" and complaining about things being financially tight . Take care of your baby and she'll take care of you.
#84
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Originally posted by RX8_Buckeye
Well my wife and I are fresh out of college making good money, so we decided to buy a house (if you haven't bought a house yet, you will find out that they are money pits!).
Well my wife and I are fresh out of college making good money, so we decided to buy a house (if you haven't bought a house yet, you will find out that they are money pits!).
House Rich/Cash Poor....
Look back in 15 years, you'll wonder what you were thinking...
#85
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House Rich/Cash Poor....
Look back in 15 years, you'll wonder what you were thinking...
Look back in 15 years, you'll wonder what you were thinking...
Even though we're "cash poor" right now, I love my '8 and our house. The only thing I'd do differently is wait 2 extra weeks to by the '8 so I could have paid the S-plan price!!! Ford NA didn't authorize S-plan sales until 2 weeks after I paid close to MSRP for the car!!!! I could be saving $70/month on my payment. Oh well, hind sight is 20/20.
#86
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Originally posted by RX8_Buckeye
You think we'll regret buying a house and new cars so quickly? I might agree with you about the new cars, but how can you go wrong with investing in a house, especially with rates so low? It's better than throwing away your money towards rent.
Even though we're "cash poor" right now, I love my '8 and our house. The only thing I'd do differently is wait 2 extra weeks to by the '8 so I could have paid the S-plan price!!! Ford NA didn't authorize S-plan sales until 2 weeks after I paid close to MSRP for the car!!!! I could be saving $70/month on my payment. Oh well, hind sight is 20/20.
You think we'll regret buying a house and new cars so quickly? I might agree with you about the new cars, but how can you go wrong with investing in a house, especially with rates so low? It's better than throwing away your money towards rent.
Even though we're "cash poor" right now, I love my '8 and our house. The only thing I'd do differently is wait 2 extra weeks to by the '8 so I could have paid the S-plan price!!! Ford NA didn't authorize S-plan sales until 2 weeks after I paid close to MSRP for the car!!!! I could be saving $70/month on my payment. Oh well, hind sight is 20/20.
#87
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My first home I lived in 3 years and sold for $75k over purchase price, and this home I've been in less than 2 years and it has appreciated about $60k so far
#88
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Originally posted by RX8_Buckeye
I'm sure it will turn out to be a worthwhile investment, however, considering that rent would be almost as much as our mortgage payment.
I'm sure it will turn out to be a worthwhile investment, however, considering that rent would be almost as much as our mortgage payment.
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Originally posted by RX8_Buckeye
You think we'll regret buying a house and new cars so quickly? I might agree with you about the new cars, but how can you go wrong with investing in a house, especially with rates so low? It's better than throwing away your money towards rent.
You think we'll regret buying a house and new cars so quickly? I might agree with you about the new cars, but how can you go wrong with investing in a house, especially with rates so low? It's better than throwing away your money towards rent.
Lets not be jumping to conclusions, I didn't say it was good or bad...it will be whatever it will be. My wife and I "blew" our savings, 8 months after getting married, on a trip to Hawaii.
Looking back, it was one of those "can't pass this up" occasions and, in retrospect, we did the right thing...good memories last a lifetime. And anyway, get the toys before the kids...cause you don't get them after for awhile, unless you're lucky.
AT
#90
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Lets not be jumping to conclusions, I didn't say it was good or bad...it will be whatever it will be.
#91
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For whatever it's worth, I have a WalMart floor jack (2k lbs.) that I've used to rotate tires on my Miata. Per some advice on Miata.net, I put a 2x4, about 3ft. long on the jack saddle and place this just inside the frame rail under the side mirror of the car. From here I can raise the whole side of the car (use wheel chocks on the opp. side) and rotate front to back. While doing this, I also put the jack stands at the jack points and just let the car barely sit on them as a safety measure. But, it's important that novices know to loosen the lugs BEFORE jacking.
This works for me and makes the change quick and easy. I haven't had to do it on the 8 yet but will likely use the same method.
This works for me and makes the change quick and easy. I haven't had to do it on the 8 yet but will likely use the same method.
#92
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Found this site selling jack pad adaptors ...the one with the X in it looks like the bomb!
http://www.protechproducts.net/images/JACKPADS.asp
http://www.protechproducts.net/images/JACKPADS.asp
#93
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I guess you need jack stands to rotate?
I used to rotate the tires myself on my previous tires. But that car came with a spare tire. I would lift up the back corner . Take off the tire. Put on the spare. Lower car. Lift up the front corner. Put the rear tire in the front. Lower car. Lift up rear corner. Remove spare. Put front tire on the rear. Repeat for other side of car.
But my RX-8 doesn't have a spare. So it looks like I have to put one entire side of the car on jack stands before I can switch tires. Correct?
But my RX-8 doesn't have a spare. So it looks like I have to put one entire side of the car on jack stands before I can switch tires. Correct?
#94
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Originally Posted by gusmahler
I used to rotate the tires myself on my previous tires. But that car came with a spare tire. I would lift up the back corner . Take off the tire. Put on the spare. Lower car. Lift up the front corner. Put the rear tire in the front. Lower car. Lift up rear corner. Remove spare. Put front tire on the rear. Repeat for other side of car.
But my RX-8 doesn't have a spare. So it looks like I have to put one entire side of the car on jack stands before I can switch tires. Correct?
But my RX-8 doesn't have a spare. So it looks like I have to put one entire side of the car on jack stands before I can switch tires. Correct?
#95
Rather than start a new thread (and get flamed with "the search is your friend" responses), I thought it best to continue this one....
It is not clear to me where the front cross-member is, or where the rear differential housing is, from the pictures in the manual. I used my floor jack on what I think is the cross-member--a thing just aft of the under-plate, in the center of the car, and it didn't give out on me. Likewise, I used what looked like was being used in the picture for the differential, but it didn't look like any differential I've ever seen, and it was not centered. Can someone post pictures of the actual points for jacking up the front and rear?
Thanks a lot.
It is not clear to me where the front cross-member is, or where the rear differential housing is, from the pictures in the manual. I used my floor jack on what I think is the cross-member--a thing just aft of the under-plate, in the center of the car, and it didn't give out on me. Likewise, I used what looked like was being used in the picture for the differential, but it didn't look like any differential I've ever seen, and it was not centered. Can someone post pictures of the actual points for jacking up the front and rear?
Thanks a lot.
#96
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I'll look for some pictures when I have time, but for now I can tell you that the front crossmember is directly between the two front wheels. I drove my car up on some ramps and examined the front underbody before I jacked it up. The jacking point (for a hydraulic floor jack) is essentially centered between the front wheels. There is an embossment in the very center of the crossmember that is roughly 1"x1"--place the saddle of the floor jack on this embossment.
The differential doesn't look like your typical rear diff unit. If I recall correctly, it is not painted, and the case is ribbed on the bottom side. It is not a rounded unit like many differentials. Once again, I suggest driving the rear tires onto some cheap plastic ramps (you can get some for less than $20 at Sears) and have a look around. Follow the rear half shafts from the wheels to the differential. You can't miss it.
The differential doesn't look like your typical rear diff unit. If I recall correctly, it is not painted, and the case is ribbed on the bottom side. It is not a rounded unit like many differentials. Once again, I suggest driving the rear tires onto some cheap plastic ramps (you can get some for less than $20 at Sears) and have a look around. Follow the rear half shafts from the wheels to the differential. You can't miss it.
#97
Originally Posted by RX8_Buckeye
I'll look for some pictures when I have time, but for now I can tell you that the front crossmember is directly between the two front wheels. I drove my car up on some ramps and examined the front underbody before I jacked it up. The jacking point (for a hydraulic floor jack) is essentially centered between the front wheels. There is an embossment in the very center of the crossmember that is roughly 1"x1"--place the saddle of the floor jack on this embossment.
The differential doesn't look like your typical rear diff unit. If I recall correctly, it is not painted, and the case is ribbed on the bottom side. It is not a rounded unit like many differentials. Once again, I suggest driving the rear tires onto some cheap plastic ramps (you can get some for less than $20 at Sears) and have a look around. Follow the rear half shafts from the wheels to the differential. You can't miss it.
The differential doesn't look like your typical rear diff unit. If I recall correctly, it is not painted, and the case is ribbed on the bottom side. It is not a rounded unit like many differentials. Once again, I suggest driving the rear tires onto some cheap plastic ramps (you can get some for less than $20 at Sears) and have a look around. Follow the rear half shafts from the wheels to the differential. You can't miss it.
#98
Originally Posted by PUR NRG
5. Never use anti-seize on the lug threads. This can act as a lubricant and cause you to over-torque.
the reason for it is if the nut 'grabs' or is not moving smothly the torque wrench will trigger early with the 'click' it's the same reasoning behind why you don't bounce on a torque wrench and should apply the moment in one smooth motion.
#99
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Originally Posted by rotarenvy
what is anit-seize? every torque wrench I have used TELLS you to put a drop or two of oil on the threads. my wheel instructions said the same....
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Originally Posted by MSMAMBA
Agree.
I tried the 3-ton craftsman a while back when I changed the tranny and diff fluid. The jack is too big for the front.
I ended up driving the car up a ramp and lifting the rear with a 2-ton jack and some jack stands.
I tried the 3-ton craftsman a while back when I changed the tranny and diff fluid. The jack is too big for the front.
I ended up driving the car up a ramp and lifting the rear with a 2-ton jack and some jack stands.
In the past when I couldn't get a jack under a car, I've just put some wooden blocks or bricks in front of the tires and drove up on them to get another inch or two under the car. It's much cheaper than buying a low profile jack.