ranger4277

I'll see what I can do. I don't have a scanner available.. so might have to settle for a photo of the page. It is on page 00-00-24 I think for anybody else with a manual and scanner.

G8rboy

I can do it when I get home- I'm assuming you mean the workshop manual, right?

ranger4277

Yeah, the workshop manual. Thanks! I didn't want to have to post a crappy photo of the page.

Are you going to Rotary Revolution G8rboy?

G8rboy

Here you go...

G8rboy

Not sure yet- I'd like to, but I might have some scheduling conflicts that weekend. Some track time behind the wheel of my RX8 on Indy Raceway would be awesome...

beachdog

Thanks for the diagrams. Now ready for the tire rotations and more.

MEGAREDS

OK, several dumb questions... I appreciate your indulgence.

The floor jack in the diagrams appears to be dead center (left/right) of the vehicle along the axels... as if there are only two positions for floor jacking the car, as opposed to the four posititions I'm used to using when changing a tire on my other vehicles. Are there just two "floor jacking positions" but four "vehicle lift positions?" Can I (should I) use the floor jack as I would use the scissor jack, i.e., lift each wheel, swap tire, lower wheel? Do I need to buy stands to safely use a floor jack?

Also, I've always just tightened tire bolts until they were "good and tight." Do I really need to measure the torque?

Final question. In December I tried to untighten a bolt and found I couldn't budge it with the supplied lug wrench. I just bought a larger lug wrench which I assumed would give me the necessary leverage to untighten the bolts. I just realized that the tire bolts on my winter wheels are recessed and I can't get the wrench head over them without using the wheel lock key as an extender. Is it okay to use the wheel lock key in this way (on all the bolts)? My fear here is breaking the key... I didn't buy a spare.

As I said, basic questions I'm sure, but this one seems like it warrants using some caution.


EDIT:

Hmmm. Found a web link:

Tech Guys: Jacking Up A Vehicle

Looks like I answered some of my own questions... the procedure seems to be jack up center of front or back of the car, insert stands left and right, lower car but leave floor jack in place, just in case, right? ... meaning I need to go back and get some jack stands. Torque and wheel lock key questions still unanswered... any help is appreciated!

G8rboy

Yes, you want jack stands... not worth risking your life or a broken brake disc because of a failed hydraulic jack.

As for torquing the lug nuts- another yes- it's pretty important with alloy wheels. Unfortunately most shops use air guns with no regard for proper torque settings so that if you ever get a flat on the road you'll have no chance of removing the nuts without a breaker bar... but I digress. The proper torque settings were originally 65-85 ft-lbs in the shop manual, but in one of the TSB's they have changed the recommended torque to 108ft-lbs due to potential snapping/clicking noise from wheel/hub rubbing.

As for the key, you should be able to use it as an extender if you're careful- just don't use a breaker bar. Another suggestion I have to to get 4 regular lug nuts from the dealer or auto parts store and throw the locking lugs away. Someday, somewhere they'll bite you in the ***- I've see shops overtorque them to the point of cracking them or damaging the lock. And once they're overtighted with an air wrench, it's awfully difficult to get them removed with handtools... especially if you're on the side of the road in the rain (ask me how I know . If someone is serious about stealing your OEM rims (doubtful), they'll get the nuts off without the lock.

rx8cited

MEGAREDS,
Sears has torque wrenches on sale this week - good time to pick one up.

To minimize damaging the wheel locks and key, loosen each wheel lock first before loosening the regular lug nuts and always tighten the locks last. This minimizes stress on the locks and key.

rx8cited

PUR NRG

1. Any time you work on the car jack stands are recommended but not required.
2. Any time you work under the car jack stands are required.
3. Personal choice: when I rotate tires I use two jacks but no jack stands. That's my decision and I accept the risk if one jack should fail.
4. Torque wrench is extremely important. The wheel lock is the first thing I torque and the first nut I loosen.
5. Never use anti-seize on the lug threads. This can act as a lubricant and cause you to over-torque.
6. Over-torque is bad. Lug bolts are designed to stretch a little when proper torque is applied. Tighten beyond those limits and you risk over stretching the bolts. That can lead to the bolts snapping in two.
________
Coach Purses

MEGAREDS

Thanks for several thoughtful responses... I'm off to Sears with a list of things to buy.

MSMAMBA

Agree.

I tried the 3-ton craftsman a while back when I changed the tranny and diff fluid. The jack is too big for the front.

I ended up driving the car up a ramp and lifting the rear with a 2-ton jack and some jack stands.

flatso

As much as I like getting bit on the *** I think you make a good point what size are our lugnuts I am going to replace my locking ones? Also is the 108ft lbs the new recommended torque or only if you have the click problem?

beachdog

Whenever someone else is going to work on my car i.e. brake job, I remove the locks in the parking lot before I hand over my keys. Many service managers have thanked me for relieving them of the responsibility of breaking them. I also bring a breaker bar and torque wrench when I go to pick the car up and put the locks back and properly torque the lugs.

flatso

so they drive the car without the lugnut? Is that good for the rim?

JoeRX8ter

The wheel locks are put on at the port. I found four lug nuts in my glove box when my car was delivered.

G8rboy

Interesting- my Miata came like that, so I was disappointed when I didn't find the regular nuts in the RX8 anywhere. I'll look around a little more, then tell the dealer he owes me a set.

Thanks for the info...

shebam

They were going to, but MNA issued a last minute TSB, "Hold the nuts!"

G8rboy

Puts new meaning to 'The dealer's got me by my nuts!'

beachdog

A couple of hundred feet at most. No big deal. Driven some beaters for tens of thousands miles with only 4.

JoeRX8ter

I am able to use the sears 3-1/2 to jack on the front cross member using the low lift ramps I made using scrap 2x6s and deck screws. You can use just two ramps on one side or all four. You could even even make them higher if you want. Or you could make some 2x6 shims to get all four wheels off the ground and keep the car level. It is really quite stable. The 3-1/2 ton jack has a removable saddle and the jack accepts the 1-1/8 frame rail jack adapter shown on a previous post on this thread.

MEGAREDS

Oh, now I don't feel so stupid... there's quite a lot going on here.

I got back from Sears, bought a breaker bar and a torque wrench, along with an appropriate ratchet socket for my lug nut key and a set of floor jacks -- about $120 total. I realized when I got home that I have keys for both the winter and OEM wheels... I had forgotten that the key I've been carrying in my glove box is not the Mazda key. The winter wheel key is necessary not because of a fancy pattern on the lug (like the OEM key), but because the rims really recess all five lugs - and only the key that came with my winter wheels will fit into the recessed space (although not perfectly tight - I don't like that there is some play, but this is the key the tire shop used to put the wheels on, so I know it will work). Ok, now I think it likely I can get the current wheels off. So far so good.

Then I climbed under the car to look for the two floor jack points described in the shop manual. I think I understand which points are suggested, but it's not simple. The "pumpkin" that some have said to use (and others have cautioned against using) is deep under the car and when my jack is directly under it I have no room to pump the jack. The front point, assuming I have it right, is really deep. (There is a protrusion dead center under the axel with a hole in it... is this right?) I doubt I could get the jack there and pump either. I really liked the idea of a few boards to lift the car a bit but now I'm thinking of jacking the car up using the corners along the rails, then slide the jack stand under and lower... then go do the other side the same way. Won't this work? Heck, I'm thinking of just using the scissor jack - it's only necessary to lift the car an inch or so...

Then I took a look at the OEM lugs and realized that I don't have a ratchet socket that will fit the new 1/2" torque wrench. Back to Sears tomorrow for a proper socket... another $7 or so.

Wheels have been a surprise expense; a $1500 hit when I bought the car, now I'm adding to the cost again. At least I'll be able to rotate the wheels on my other cars now. Project for tomorrow night: figure out how to use this torque wrench.

Thanks guys... as I said, I need to baby step on this.

G8rboy

\


That's how i've always done it- use the floor jack to raise a corner at a time and slap a jackstand under that corner. Easy as cake and takes no time at all. My last two cars have been too low to get my cheap floor jack all the way under to get under the diff or front crossmembers.

MEGAREDS

Thanks Sean... As soon as I get the needed ratchet socket, I should be good to go!

G8rboy

You just keep collecting tools and we'll have you changing your oil before long