Attack

So I'm looking for moral support.

I've got cupped tires with only 7,500 miles on the car. After the first recommended rotation things got very noisy and only got worse. Sounded to me like things were out of balance or alignment, but neither was the case according to my dealer --- cupped tires.

I don't drive like a maniac, and check tire pressure, and the TPMS didn't indicate a problem ever. 7,500 miles? That's absurd.

So I called Mazda, they told me to talk to Firestone. I don't feel like I should have to do all the legwork on this, so I asked my dealer to call Mazda NA about it. On top of that, this week my check engine light came on, A/C is flaky (TSB) and A/C temp **** fell off (TSB). Not a good week for my baby.

Matt

Brian Atherton

I am having somewhat similar problems with my baby and have 7022 miles - buit have not seen cupping yet, but am worried. My rims just failed the balancer machines "true" test. I could see that the rims were out of round in the vertical axis. Looked great from the horizontal - no curb duels. Anyway, I think Mazda has a problem with the rims, they appear to be off center, but my dealer's manager claims the "night" mechanic who worked on my car did not understand how to put the rims on the machine. I was there and it looked like he did it right. I have another appointment where the manager is supposed to show me or replace the rims if they are bad. Car is sitting in the garage, I am afraid to drive it, hope it is not too late for my tires.

I suggest you have your rims checked for trueness. You can do this yourself by jacking up the front end and spinning one of tires. Watch the rim at the bead line and see if it oscialltes up and down while on the car. Mine did on the machine, but have not tried this test on the car. I plan to do so when the dealer has all four tires up onthe rack and I can spin each one before he puts the tire on the machine. If it is out of true on the car, it's going to be off my car. Hope it works out for you.

RX8-TX

Could you post any pictures of the cupping in question?
I've got 13K miles on the original tires. I thought I would have ran out of thread by now -as I stated on a previous post. But to my surprise, they are holding up pretty good. I had my tires rotated at 7,500 miles by the dealer. Regularly keep a good eye on tire pressure, and have a slow leak on the rear-right tire.

I'll post some pictures for comparisson. Bear in mind, they are the front tires -which spent 7,500 as rears, and now another 6,500 in the front.

RX8-TX

Here are my tires...

RX8-TX

..and another shot...

Mr M

Exactly what sort of wear are you seeing? By "cupping" do you mean wear in the center of the tire around its circumference? How much? What tires and tire pressures do you run?

Wear in the center is caused by over inflation or lots of wheel spinning, which are both driver induced, not product induced. That is why the dealer is backing away.

Check your pressures with the owners manual again and get back to us.

Sputnik

While I can't speak for him, and what he is referring to, "cupping" does not refer to excessive wear in the center of the tire around its circumference. You are correct in that that is normally caused by incorrect pressures.

"Cupping" normally refers to uneven wear along the circumference of a tire. It's very hard to see in pictures (unless it has been going on for awhile, and the wear is excessive). As you slowly rotate the tire, you can see that the tire is worn more at places around the tire than others. This is caused by a suspension problem (normally bad shocks), or poorly balanced wheels. Once it starts, the uneven circumference of the tire normally increases the effect of the problem, and makes things worse. When it's really bad (as bad that you can see it in pictures), you can feel it while driving.

So, normally, once you see it on a tire, then it's already too late for the tire, and it needs to be replaced instead of simply rebalanced (because the out of round tire will cause that bad wear pattern to get worse, even if the other causes have been fixed).

---jps

Mr M

Thanx for the explanation - never heard that term before.

Yep, definitely sounds like wheel balance caused wear. Definitely not something you could talk to Firestone about, the car caused that wear, not the tires!! There is something wrong with either the vehicle or the dealer's balancing machine.

If they still don't play ball tell them OK, I'll buy new tires, if YOU gaurantee they will not do the same thing in another 7,500 miles!

Brian Atherton

I have an appointment this week at my dealer to check the rims out. Their Hunter machine failed the rims for radial reasons. No matter how well the tires are balanced if the center of rotation is off and my dealer's machine and some measurements I took seem to indicate a problem with 2 of my rims. I only checked two as did the dealer, before he told me I would have to come back when the head Mazda mechanic was on duty.

I have 7100 miles and am worried that I will have cupped tires. Already enjoyed that experience on my wife's Explorer, 5,000 miles and tires were ruined.

I plan on bringing the car to a Firestone dealer before my appointment to get the tires checked. I will be saying nothing, except that the dealer has tried to balance these tires three times, and failed to produce an acceptable balance. Maybe an outside agency will get the people at Mazda to fix the problem. Am I asking too much to have a new vehicle whose steering wheel does not vibrate (at best), or have an unbalanced feeling?

If you have cupping, where is it on the tire? I have some small concern about the outside treads on our baby's tires.

f1michel

i had very bad cupping on my stock potenzas. It happened after about 12000 miles. I had the rotation done twice and the 2nd time the noise was so bad i switched them back. Talked to the dealer who said he'd talk to Bridgestone who never called back... i got fed up, bought new pzero nero's and the ride is so smooth... i'm at 24000 km now so i guess they weren't too far from their end anyway.

Kagero

I have just over 11k and just rotated the Bridgstones. I lost 1.5 to 2.0 on front and 3.5 to 4.0 on the rear. The front wore more on the inside and the back on the outside. So since they start with 10/32 I hope to get 20 to 25K on them. Its a love-hate thing those last few thousands. You are driving on like shaved race tires, if they wore evenly. You enjoy that part but, not much protection betheen you and the road. On a road course fun but, on public roads watch out for pot holes and sharp things. Im thinking about tires now...considering the Brig Poten RE750...anybody...Im not gona race it........to hard.....

GTRay

Having been in the tire industry for the past year i come accross this kind of tire wear on a daily basis and i'll say that 9 times out of ten the problem is related to the alignment. i'll go on the record and say that every time i've checked a car out on out alignment rack that has this problem the toe-in is typically beyond spec.

if the springs in your suspension have settled moreso than what mazda predicted then i would put my money on slightly negative camber that is affecting your overall toe settings as well. have your alignment inspected with a Hunter DSP 600 alignment rack. after using this machine i don't trust the old ones that mount electronic heads to the wheels any more.

Ray

Sputnik

Just to clarify, by "...the toe-in is typically beyond spec...", you mean that there is too much toe-in, correct?

---jps

VR3

The re040 are crappy tires..I've had the same thing happen to my Z at 4k miles. There are also many other Z owners with the same problem. Nissan finally issued a tab to adj toe-in and for the dealers are to regularly calibrate their machines.

firstmazda

I have almost 28,000 miles on my RX8 and I have been getting the tire noise for the last 8000 miles, along with the brake squeal.
Also, just a note, I got my oil changed and tires rotated about a week ago. After the work was done, I noticed a metallic rattling sound in the front end, after some investigation it seemed to becoming from the brake shield (?) from behind the drivers side front wheel. I could hit the side of the tire with my hand or kick it and reproduce the sound. If i reached throught wheel and either pushed or pulled on the shield and then hit the side of the tire it would go away. I described to the service guy, actually two of them, The first things they did was put it up on the rack to check if anything was loose, nothing was loose, then drove, can only here it with the window down, then agreed with me that that shield being loose was the problem, and fixed it. I just moved to MN from IL, and I took the car to Polar Mazda.

RodsterinFL

Two weeks ago I went to the dealer over the noise of my tires. The thumping and whining noise is just awful. I hve now, 12,000 miles on the original Bridgestone RE040 tires. We were sure that it was an alignment issue. I watched as the tech did the alignment - the machine indicated that the car had nearly perfect alignment (in center of the range). The balance of the tires was slightly off on two and the other pair was fine. Then he checked the road force and it was okay as well. The sound is awful and he took if for a drive and said that whatever it was was seriously noisy. He did not think it was rear end or bearings. What else could it be? Something is wrong.

Brian, you are not asking too much. I bought a 2001 Millenia S prior to the RX8 and on the way home after delivery (first time driving on hwy) I noticed that the tires seemed out of balance. After 8 balances and all new tires and 7 MONTHS later I finally got a resolve. The only way the tires got balanced was to take it to a body shop where a guy balanced by sight. He balanced them on the car. Everyone else took the wheels off and it never worked. I am hoping that my RX8 problem will resolve much sooner.

oldguy

I have just had a similar experience. I ran the OEM Potenza's from delivery last July to November, changed to winter tires and rims and then changed back in April. Of the 26,000 miles on the car I figure about 16,000 are on the OEM Potenza's. At the last oil change the dealer rotated the tires and I immediately noticed a noise in the left rear. Over the next 5,000 miles the noise increased until it sounded so "mettalic" that I was concerned about wheel bearings or drive shaft since it varied only with the speed of the wheel rotation and not various gear changes. They checked the car today and said it was sound but there was some "cupping" on the tires. They rotated them again which put the problem tire(s) to the front again and the noise is much less (but not gone). I have had no indication that balance or alignment have been a problem since purchase, but I plan to have them checked again soon.

I am very dissapointed with these tires if this is the way they behave after so few miles. I used only Dunlop's on the 240 SX I had for 140,000 miles before the "8" and never had a problem. I'll be changing back to winter tires in about 2 months so I'll have the winter to decide what to do next. There is still plenty of tread on the Potenza's so I hate to throw them out, but the noise is aggravating on a performance car like this.

Mazda, please take note. This should not happen on a car of this cost and quality.

truemagellen

hey firstmazda, next time you take your car in take it to Morries...they have been services my families mazdas for over 22 years...they are AMAZING...

have you guys looked into the Service Bulletin...there is one about the inside of the tires pushing over the wheels or something like that...also that slapping/snapping noise I got fixed at Morries...firstmazda...PM me and I'll give you the details on Mazda