winter storage, sever misfire, and rotten egg smell
02-26-2005, 07:12 AM
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winter storage, sever misfire, and rotten egg smell
I am currently storing my RX-8 for the winter. It is completely stock.
I start the engine every 2 weeks to keep the battery charged and roll it around in my garage to prevent flatspotting in my tires. I have added fuel stabilzer to the car.
Anyways, I noticed how a few weeks ago, whenever I started up the engine, there would be severe misfire in the beginning. I hear the familiar rotary whirring accompanied by poof - poof (I believe this is misfire). I read some posts here and it said that this was normal for a rotary car during cold starts.
This morning, things were a little different. I once again started the car and was greeted by misfire. However, this time, the engine light came on. Also, the rpms would fluctuate between 1500 - 2000 during every misfire. Usually the rpms are 1000 at idle. My whole garage smells like rotten eggs. This has never happened before.
After about 10 minutes, the car was up to normal operating temperature and there was no more misfire, also the engine light was turned off.
Has anyone else experienced this problem?? I want to take the car to the dealer, but I don't have winter tires.
I start the engine every 2 weeks to keep the battery charged and roll it around in my garage to prevent flatspotting in my tires. I have added fuel stabilzer to the car.
Anyways, I noticed how a few weeks ago, whenever I started up the engine, there would be severe misfire in the beginning. I hear the familiar rotary whirring accompanied by poof - poof (I believe this is misfire). I read some posts here and it said that this was normal for a rotary car during cold starts.
This morning, things were a little different. I once again started the car and was greeted by misfire. However, this time, the engine light came on. Also, the rpms would fluctuate between 1500 - 2000 during every misfire. Usually the rpms are 1000 at idle. My whole garage smells like rotten eggs. This has never happened before.
After about 10 minutes, the car was up to normal operating temperature and there was no more misfire, also the engine light was turned off.
Has anyone else experienced this problem?? I want to take the car to the dealer, but I don't have winter tires.
02-26-2005, 11:08 AM
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Slight missing and popping sounds in the exhaust at idle are actually normal for this car. Just as long as you can't feel it from inside the car. It should rev smoothly with the excelerator.
However, apart from that, the rest is not normal and is probably due to your habits with repeated starts during storage.
First of all, its not (in my opinion) a good idea to start your car every couple weeks unless you can actually get out and drive it. This is for a couple of reasons.
1. When your engine starts to heat up immediately after starting, moisture is introduced into the oil and exhaust system from the rapid temperature change. This is normally not a problem because it is evaporated as you drive and the engine runs through various RPM ranges under load.
The starting and running for a few minutes can cause you more problems than good for that reason alone.
2. The RX8's engine runs piggy rich at start up and is well known for being flood prone. This is another reason its not a good idea to start the engine unless you can really stretch her legs. This can have a cumulative affect over time, like week after week of getting started but never driven. The plugs can foul very easily on a rotary engine. The symptoms you describe sound like minor plug foul.
The worst case is that you'll end up fully flooding her out, and need a tow and a new set of plugs and an oil change.
The best, and most probable case is it will cure itself after being driven for an hour or so. I suggest (when weather permits) trouncing her on the highway bouncing off the rev limiter a few times. Do this only after it is fully warmed up and your confident that it is not misfiring. You will have a CEL (again) if it is.
However, apart from that, the rest is not normal and is probably due to your habits with repeated starts during storage.
First of all, its not (in my opinion) a good idea to start your car every couple weeks unless you can actually get out and drive it. This is for a couple of reasons.
1. When your engine starts to heat up immediately after starting, moisture is introduced into the oil and exhaust system from the rapid temperature change. This is normally not a problem because it is evaporated as you drive and the engine runs through various RPM ranges under load.
The starting and running for a few minutes can cause you more problems than good for that reason alone.
2. The RX8's engine runs piggy rich at start up and is well known for being flood prone. This is another reason its not a good idea to start the engine unless you can really stretch her legs. This can have a cumulative affect over time, like week after week of getting started but never driven. The plugs can foul very easily on a rotary engine. The symptoms you describe sound like minor plug foul.
The worst case is that you'll end up fully flooding her out, and need a tow and a new set of plugs and an oil change.
The best, and most probable case is it will cure itself after being driven for an hour or so. I suggest (when weather permits) trouncing her on the highway bouncing off the rev limiter a few times. Do this only after it is fully warmed up and your confident that it is not misfiring. You will have a CEL (again) if it is.
Last edited by Gyro; 02-26-2005 at 11:12 AM.
02-26-2005, 11:19 PM
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Great info from Gyro above. I'd like to add that once you get your out of the garage again if it still has that "rotten egg" smell, I would get your cat conv. checked out. Whenever any of my previous cars got that "rotten egg" smell, it was the cat that went bad.
02-28-2005, 03:56 PM
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Rotten Egg smell is from the CAT. As for the poof, poof sound...I noticed that when I started it below freezing and I had filled the tank with 87 octane. I went back to 93 and the sound is gone, or at least subdued. I assumed the poof, poof was the sound a rotary makes similar to the pinging on a piston engine.
03-01-2005, 03:53 AM
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i dunno how long you are running the car for but whenever I leave the car for long periods, which tends to be quite often lately, I find that the battery runs out after a month or so, and requires jumpstarting. I would also suggest driving for an hour or so, at least 10-20 minutes.
03-01-2005, 05:31 AM
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It is not likely that weather will permit much here for a while yet. We are getting dumped on nicely right now. The salt wont be off the roads for many weeks yet, and the salt is the main reason mine is up on blocks. My battery runs down also so I've invested in a charger, but jump starting works good. I let it run a good 20 minutes every 4-6 weeks and will be changing the oil as soon as I get it out on the roads. I have also used fuel stabilizer. When the battery runs down, the TCS light comes on and needs a reset. You can check elsewhere on this forum but if I recall correctly you just need to turn the sterring wheel to its limit in both directions to reset it.
03-01-2005, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by monzter
Great info from Gyro above. I'd like to add that once you get your out of the garage again if it still has that "rotten egg" smell, I would get your cat conv. checked out. Whenever any of my previous cars got that "rotten egg" smell, it was the cat that went bad.
03-01-2005, 09:11 PM
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The rotten egg smell is caused by sulfur dioxide, which is a by-product of moisture in the engine and exhaust system.
Starting it for a few minutes, letting the temp gauge come to "normal" and then shutting it off is actually doing more harm than good - you allow the engine to get warm, which makes it attract moisture, then it cools, which allows the moisture to condense.
Secondly, the gas is going bad.
The car badly needs to be driven for a full hour to "cook off" the moisture in the engine, exhaust, etc. If you're winter storing it, you should instead do the following:
0) Before you start, get the oil changed. Be sure it's properly filled. Check all fluids including brake, steering, clutch and washer to be sure they are full to the full line. Take it for an hour-long, no-shutting-off drive to cook off all the moisture in the engine and exhaust. Wash the car so it is spotless, and ideally if you have time, give it a quick coat of wax as well. Spray protectant on the tires.
1) fill the tank completely, then add Stabil to it and then drive for at least 20 miles to mix the Stabil in the tank and have it draw to the fuel injecition system.
2) Refill the tank as full as possible without overfilling, add a squirt or two of Stabil to the filler neck, then seal her up with the gas cap.
3) Drive home, park it where she will rest for the winter. Set climate control to "fresh air" to ensure air circulation. Eject any media from the sound system, and shut her down.
4) Jack up the car, place jack stands under the frame so it doesn't sit on the wheels/tires, therefore, no need to start and roll it around.
5) If you can, cover the end of the airbox snorkel with foil to prevent rodents from entering the car intake system.
6) Place a commercial deisscant product on a waterproof pan on the footwell of the passenger side - prevents any moisture or dew from building up over the winter.
7) Connect a trickle-charger to the battery to ensure the battery doesn't go flat over the winter. Or, alternatively, disconnect the negative cable from the battery. If you do that, though, you lose all radio presets, and the PCM is cleared of all memory items (programming stays).
8) Lean over and kiss it good night for the long winter rest.
Come spring:
1) Carefully uncover it. Dust can filter through a car cover and dust scratches paint. Check the tire pressures and correct them before proceeding.
2) Let it down off the jack stands
3) Remove the trickle charger or reconnect the battery and charge it fully. Remove any foil from the intake snorkel.
4) When starting it:
a) Turn key fully to "on" position, let fuel pump cycle (you will hear it run 10 seconds or so) to pressurize the fuel system, then stop.
b) Crank with foot off until the engine starts. Expect a long (10 seconds or so) crank.
5) Let it warm for 3-4 minutes, then go for an hour-long drive to cook out all the moisture.
You're back in business!
Starting it for a few minutes, letting the temp gauge come to "normal" and then shutting it off is actually doing more harm than good - you allow the engine to get warm, which makes it attract moisture, then it cools, which allows the moisture to condense.
Secondly, the gas is going bad.
The car badly needs to be driven for a full hour to "cook off" the moisture in the engine, exhaust, etc. If you're winter storing it, you should instead do the following:
0) Before you start, get the oil changed. Be sure it's properly filled. Check all fluids including brake, steering, clutch and washer to be sure they are full to the full line. Take it for an hour-long, no-shutting-off drive to cook off all the moisture in the engine and exhaust. Wash the car so it is spotless, and ideally if you have time, give it a quick coat of wax as well. Spray protectant on the tires.
1) fill the tank completely, then add Stabil to it and then drive for at least 20 miles to mix the Stabil in the tank and have it draw to the fuel injecition system.
2) Refill the tank as full as possible without overfilling, add a squirt or two of Stabil to the filler neck, then seal her up with the gas cap.
3) Drive home, park it where she will rest for the winter. Set climate control to "fresh air" to ensure air circulation. Eject any media from the sound system, and shut her down.
4) Jack up the car, place jack stands under the frame so it doesn't sit on the wheels/tires, therefore, no need to start and roll it around.
5) If you can, cover the end of the airbox snorkel with foil to prevent rodents from entering the car intake system.
6) Place a commercial deisscant product on a waterproof pan on the footwell of the passenger side - prevents any moisture or dew from building up over the winter.
7) Connect a trickle-charger to the battery to ensure the battery doesn't go flat over the winter. Or, alternatively, disconnect the negative cable from the battery. If you do that, though, you lose all radio presets, and the PCM is cleared of all memory items (programming stays).
8) Lean over and kiss it good night for the long winter rest.
Come spring:
1) Carefully uncover it. Dust can filter through a car cover and dust scratches paint. Check the tire pressures and correct them before proceeding.
2) Let it down off the jack stands
3) Remove the trickle charger or reconnect the battery and charge it fully. Remove any foil from the intake snorkel.
4) When starting it:
a) Turn key fully to "on" position, let fuel pump cycle (you will hear it run 10 seconds or so) to pressurize the fuel system, then stop.
b) Crank with foot off until the engine starts. Expect a long (10 seconds or so) crank.
5) Let it warm for 3-4 minutes, then go for an hour-long drive to cook out all the moisture.
You're back in business!
03-02-2005, 05:45 PM
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I just have a quick update
I called 2 Mazda dealerships about the problem and got 2 different responses.
The first place said that there may be some problem with a fouled spark plug or that I need a new PCM flash. I currently have the 'M' flash. She told me to bring the car into the dealership in the spring and they will look at it.
The second place told me to take the car out for a quick drive when there is no snow on the ground. He told me to drive for about 20 minutes on the highway. I told him that I had the stock tires and he said that they will do OK as long as no snow is on the ground. Also, he believes that there may be water in the gas line due to starting up the car repeatedly. He suggested that I put in fuel dryer like STP Water Treatment.
I followed the second person's advice, and put in the STP water treatment along with about 4 litres of fresh premium gas. I started the engine up again to circulate the STP water treatment throughout the system. I noticed that there was no misfire this time and the engine light was turned off. However, it still smelled like rotten eggs. Also, when I revved the engine to 4000 rpm, the engine light came on and stayed on. It was solid, not flickering like before.
I called 2 Mazda dealerships about the problem and got 2 different responses.
The first place said that there may be some problem with a fouled spark plug or that I need a new PCM flash. I currently have the 'M' flash. She told me to bring the car into the dealership in the spring and they will look at it.
The second place told me to take the car out for a quick drive when there is no snow on the ground. He told me to drive for about 20 minutes on the highway. I told him that I had the stock tires and he said that they will do OK as long as no snow is on the ground. Also, he believes that there may be water in the gas line due to starting up the car repeatedly. He suggested that I put in fuel dryer like STP Water Treatment.
I followed the second person's advice, and put in the STP water treatment along with about 4 litres of fresh premium gas. I started the engine up again to circulate the STP water treatment throughout the system. I noticed that there was no misfire this time and the engine light was turned off. However, it still smelled like rotten eggs. Also, when I revved the engine to 4000 rpm, the engine light came on and stayed on. It was solid, not flickering like before.
03-02-2005, 06:11 PM
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I know there isn't a whole lot of similarity in cars but I had a similar problem with my vette in storage. Engine light would come on and stay on and the engine would run rough when I had had no previous problems before storage. I couldn't figure it out but later I happened to read an article about oxygen sensors which stated that fuel system cleaners and additives were very hard on oxygen sensors and can sometimes cause premature failure. I don't know if our 8's have the same type of sensor but you did mention that you had added fuel stabilizer before storage. I had done the same thing with the vette. Just an idea..... 
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