RIWWP: Yes, I know he said he tested them, but obviously that test is flawed.

Charles: I'm glad you were not offended, as that was not how it was meant. It was meant only as an observation and that perhaps one should test them anyway when they are having problems that seem to lean in that direction. People on this board are very straight forward and if they think you sold a defective product I'm pretty sure we would all know about it.

 

I'm pretty sure (without bothering to check) that it uses the spark-plug looking tester that you run the wire onto and clamp to a grounding point and watch the actual spark production for clarity, color, frequency, etc...

 

ah... that's how I troubleshoot ignition on my dirt bike and lawn mowers.. although I've always assumed a timing light was more reliable.

 

i use the spark plug looking tester, it's cheap and reliable, why not ?

 

To be clear, there are apparently a few kinds and the one I bought actually looks like this:



There is a clear plastic tube in which the spark jumps between two electrodes. Quite neat to watch

 

the gap light is also a bit more of a pain in the rear to work around than the timing light method and still does not rule out spark plug/some plug wire performance issues.

swapping plugs/wires around is an option, if the misfire follows the plug/wire then the coil likely isn't the problem.

 

I'm convinced that the BHR kit might not be a worthwhile upgrade

 

here we go...

 

Care to explain why you think that?

 

Unscientific comparison between 3 setups using fresh plugs:

-Stock 2006 coils with 50k miles
-New oem coils
-D585 coils (custom, not BHR)

The D585 coils seemed to perform the worst, although realistically it's pretty hard to accurately determine anything under a 10hp difference. But the car was definitely noticeably harder to start.

It's possible that BHR has some magic in their wiring harness or their coils are better than mine, but I'm not convinced. I'd rather trust the revB coils from Mazda over someone trying to push their $500 product. Just my opinion.

 

You are entitled to your opinion.

However, there are over 1,000 BHR kits in use out there. I can remember only 3 threads posted where someone has had a failure. Ray states that his failure rate is less than 1%, and he is nothing if not brutally honest about anything, good or bad. He also doesn't push the BHR kit any more. It sells itself constantly. Watch how fast the used kits sell. Usually within 4 hours. People love them for a reason.

What is the compelling reason you have to ignore that information?


Basically, picking 1 setup of each type as a representative is fraught with error chances, and picking a setup that was found to have problems is very nearly being deliberate about skewing the results.

For example, if I was to pick a Corolla and an RX-8 and compare them against each other for how long the engine lasts, I would pick my 2002 Corolla that I used to have, and my RX-8 that I used to have. Fair enough?

Ok, the 4 bangers in Toyotas are complete crap. I got 54% more mileage out of my rotary than I did out of my Toyota engine. (96,000 vs 62,000). So I feel justified in saying that rotaries are far more reliable than Toyotas.





That doesn't make sense does it? Of course it doesn't, because I used a skewed results set of only 1 representative of each!

 

he's probably just convinced himself they are not worth the money, many other people tend to agree.

but unscientific testing, yeah...


IMO the problem isn't so much the coils but the lacking heat dispersion.

 

Lets take note that jromano isn't even using BHR coils.

NOT ALL D585 COILS ARE THE SAME ... there is a reason why BHR ignition system costs the price that it does .... im sure CRH could sell it for half the price if he used the various other garbage D585 coils that are out there....

 

A financial reason is at least a reasonable basis. Failure rate isn't.

 

Picking starting as the only variable...the stock coils work much better at stock dwell than the D585 coils. That has been and will continue to be an issue with the D585 coils that is only overcome by fixing the issue...and changing the dwell table

After start the D585 coils have as strong a spark as OEM even on stock dwell...and they don't suffer from the failure issues the OEM ones do. That isn't to say that they don't fail....they do...just no where near as regularly as the OEM ones

There are other coil options out there....and depending on your pocket book and needs can provide high spark output at stock dwell....

But at this time no one makes a kit....and the DIY coil thing takes a bit more than average mechanical ability to pull off without problems

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with my testing. It's just an individual part and both were in working condition. I ran 2 full gas tanks with my same routine driving conditions, and noticed slightly worse performance and mileage with the D585 coils versus the original ones. Once I replaced them with new oem coils, the performance and mileage returned to normal. And the car starts easier than before.

Upon searching the forum, I found a few other instances of people experiencing the same thing and discussions on dwell settings. I'm not sure where the truth lies, but I personally don't believe the ignition system is a worthwhile upgrade. Plenty of people have expressed their positive experiences and endorsements, so I'm simply sharing mine.

For me, the decision was largely financial. My stock coils were working fine after 50k miles, and they've only been improved further by Mazda in the later revision. I can replace them several times before breaking even with the cost of the BHR kit.

If I was 100% certain that the BHR setup would last forever and have improved performance, then I'd consider it (like I was). But with the uncertainty I have now, it made a lot more sense for me to just use oem coils.

 

Ah ok. I understand now.

As long as you are aware that testing a coil that BHR doesn't use isn't a very good way of testing how well the BHR coils work...


It's like saying "I'm not using E85 in my gas tank because I found 87 octane didn't work so well."

 

All the GM type coils that use the same dwell specs will have the same issue.....

It's not like the OEM ones aren't adequate for the NA car when they are fuctioning properly. Problem has been the failure rate is high and doesn't seem to be related to anything that can be controlled...except time and mileage....after the 3rd set of OEM ones I got tired of dealing with it...and I'm sure many people have. Why else would you think the BHR upgrade has sold so well

 

It probably wasn't reasonable to expect a performance increase anyway. I'm sure the BHR kit performs just fine. I just wasn't sure it was worth it to gamble on the reliability. Has anyone actually put 100k or 200k miles on the BHR kit yet?

 

Over a week later and the car is running better then it has in the past few months. 3-4 months ago, I started having an issue with intermittent powerloss when it was hot and humid out and as it turns out, these new OEM coils remedied that. Sucks about what I had to go through to find out though...

I'm curious, is this a known failure mode for an ignition coil regardless of brand? The symptoms in my original thread I just linked. Given that it was clearly the coils causing the issue.

 

they could be, if one coil was already not firing it would give similar symptoms with hesistation and lack of power. then if the other coil for the same rotor went during the seafoam treatment then you would have only a single rotor firing altogether.

remember that these coils have no ballast so there is no load suppression in the event that the chamber cannot fire. this is also why i only do decarbs on a running engine to help prevent this sort of issue, it also seems to work best if you can do the decarb under high loads to prevent misfires as i noted some cars had to clean themselves off if it was done without a load.

 

just curious, have you tried Revision C coils yet? the one that was updated with the 2012 Spirit R Rx-8, I have a set here and about to try it out. not that my current set has a problem, just giving it a shot.

 

^Just out of curiosity, did you have to get them from Paul at Mazmart? Dealers around here don't have them.

 

+1. Add into the fact that you would like to get a Cobb AP to maximize the use of the coils by altering dwell timing. Then add in the cost of tuning. It becomes quite an expense for minimal gains while being N/A. I too decided to save some coin and raise my coils off the plate for $0.00 VS $300(used) - 500(BHR) LS Coils + $300 used cobb(plus MM tuning $299) or MM package at $594.
So $899 - $1094 total cost.

Waiting for one of my "B" coils to crap out and give these a whirl as well. So far they're holding up great though. Let me know how they work out!

It's rumored that until the "B" stock deplete they will not be available at local dealers. I tried several around here in our dealer network. All of them show the part number as good but it's labeled as not available.

 

Nope, I was about to. but I got it thru some sources.

I think only Mazmart has them (so far) in the US.