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Old 02-27-2017, 06:29 PM   #1
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Rebuild warranty issue

UPDATE 4/29/2017:
See here:
https://www.rx8club.com/good-guy-bad...0/#post4817019

I'm having trouble with my engine rebuild after 11 months and the rebuilder is pushing back on my warranty claim. I'm not going to post who it is (yet) because I don't want to burn bridges just (yet). It's Omar Mena at OJ Imports.

We are both seeing similar numbers on our compression testers (both using RCT-V5).
99/96/94 @298 RPM on the front rotor (he sent me a photo of their RCT-V5)
Rear rotor when I tested was just barely above spec and rebuilder reports the same.

The rebuilder has the engine and they can't replicate my intermittent hot-start issue but their numbers match mine. They are claiming that there has to be a hot start/idle issue or compression has to be below 90 psi (no rpm given), or 10 psi diff between faces for a warranty claim (this is nowhere on their website).

The rebuilder claims that the below-spec numbers are due to the fact that they used Atkins seals which don't break in the same and they reused my irons. This sounds like BS to me. If they don't break in then that's a problem. Also, if the reused hardware was out of spec, why didn't they include that in the original rebuild?

Am I being taken for a ride here?

Last edited by NotAPreppie; 05-01-2017 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 02-27-2017, 09:56 PM   #2
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I would ask for a copy of their Warranty that should be available.
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Old 02-28-2017, 10:29 AM   #3
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I'm getting it in bits and pieces via text message as things proceed.

It's incredibly infuriating.

This morning I found out that the warranty underwriter won't even do a compression test if they can't replicate any drivability problems (CEL, hot start, hot idle, etc).

I wouldn't have sent my engine back if I had known they were going to ignore the objective numbers provided by a compression tester. That's the part that kills me.
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Old 02-28-2017, 11:15 AM   #4
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I mean when you say they can't replicate the hot start issue you mean because they don't have the engine in a car right? So how can they say there is not a hot start issue? And how are the testing the compression? Cold on an engine stand? The 10psi difference between faces is pretty standard but they should have that clearly stated.
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Old 02-28-2017, 11:46 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R. Hill View Post
How many miles on this engine?
About 8,500
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Old 02-28-2017, 11:57 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8 View Post
I mean when you say they can't replicate the hot start issue you mean because they don't have the engine in a car right? So how can they say there is not a hot start issue? And how are the testing the compression? Cold on an engine stand? The 10psi difference between faces is pretty standard but they should have that clearly stated.
They claim to have installed the engine in their car and have run almost half a tank of gas through it.

They've sent me photos of their RCT-V5 (same as mine) which show 99/96/94 at 298 RPM. Which, normalized to 250 RPM, is 92/89/87.

Now he's texting me saying that if I took my car to a Mazda dealer with my occaisional hot start issue, they wouldn't run a compression test. Which isn't true if they follow the troubleshooting procedure in the FSM.

He also said that if it were under factory warranty, Mazda wouldn't rebuild it under warranty based solely on these compression numbers (assuming there's no evidence of abuse or neglect).

Very little about the warranty procedure is clearly stated.

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Old 02-28-2017, 12:18 PM   #7
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Hmmm, pics/vids of it installed? Highly doubt they would go thru that trouble. Disappointing for sure.
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Old 02-28-2017, 12:43 PM   #8
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They could just send me photos of an RX-8. There aren't easily identifiable marks on the shortblock I sent them.
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Old 02-28-2017, 01:50 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotAPreppie View Post

This morning I found out that the warranty underwriter won't even do a compression test if they can't replicate any drivability problems (CEL, hot start, hot idle, etc).
.

Warranty Underwriter? Most small rebuilders self insure. Sounds like a good excuse to me.

Atkins seals.....

What was the comp like when it was new?
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Old 02-28-2017, 03:39 PM   #10
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Warranty Underwriter? Most small rebuilders self insure. Sounds like a good excuse to me.

Atkins seals.....

What was the comp like when it was new?
I didn't have a compression tester right then so I don't know.

He just got back to me to say the underwriter denied the warranty claim but said he'd reverse that if a Mazda dealer agrees that the engine would hypothetically be rebuilt under warranty.

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Old 02-28-2017, 03:46 PM   #11
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I mean if it is under spec then Mazda would have to replace it. 96.3psi at 298RPM is failing.

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Old 02-28-2017, 09:30 PM   #12
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Yup. Been over that with him. He went off on a detour about Mazda not replacing engines based on compression numbers.
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Old 02-28-2017, 10:08 PM   #13
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SOrry to hear about this OP.... Sounds like my engine builder... Hope you get this straightened out. Very unlikely.... but maybe instead try to see if he will pay you back some labor and take it to someone reputable? Good luck, hope you get this straightened out and healthy!
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Old 03-01-2017, 11:47 AM   #14
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^ True. But I would bet money they did not install this engine in a car and get it running, that would be a waste of a lot of time and labor.

But this type of scenario has always been something I have warned people about. Engine warranties are ok, but to get one covered is a painful process. But, with this type rebuild, problems are more likely to arise so I can't say that I am all that surprised. I know the builder and this would be the first negative experience I have heard of, but it's a bad one, if compression is that low and they have no evidence that it was mistreated or boosted or something, then they should send you another rebuilt engine, period.

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Old 03-01-2017, 12:33 PM   #15
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^ True. But I would bet money they did not install this engine in a car and get it running, that would be a waste of a lot of time and labor.

But this type of scenario has always been something I have warned people about. Engine warranties are ok, but to get one covered is a painful process. But, with this type rebuild, problems are more likely to arise so I can't say that I am all that surprised. I know the builder and this would be the first negative experience I have heard of, but it's a bad one, if compression is that low and they have no evidence that it was mistreated or boosted or something, then they should send you another rebuilt engine, period.
He told me they had it installed and had run half a tank of gas through it. Did you miss that or do you think O is lying to me?
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Old 03-01-2017, 12:53 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotAPreppie View Post
He told me they had it installed and had run half a tank of gas through it. Did you miss that or do you think O is lying to me?
Yes I think so. I don't see them going thru the hassle of that.
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Old 03-01-2017, 02:17 PM   #17
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Basically the warranty is only as good as the shop that did it.......
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Old 03-01-2017, 05:18 PM   #18
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Yah... If this were an Indiana Jones movie, an old guy in the corner would be saying, "He chose... poorly."

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Old 03-02-2017, 12:01 PM   #19
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And I'm definitely reaching a point in my life where I'm willing to pay a bit more to not have to dick around to get what I want.
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Old 03-10-2017, 01:55 PM   #20
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Still getting jerked around.

Rebuilder claims that Mazda has to see issue with misfires, warm start or warm stalling to proceed with a compression test.

I just spoke to a service adviser at Autobarn City Mazda and posed this situation to him. He said that if they can't replicate the issues they will still run a compression test and, if failing, contact Mazda corporate to start the ball rolling on a warranty replacement. He also said that he's had customers without symptoms offer to pay for a compression test and end up getting engines replaced under warranty.

I relayed this and the contact info of the dealer guy to the rebuilder. Rebuilder said he'd call and "see if he can help with this."

I'm so sick of this ****.

At this point I'd be happy just to get my engine back with no more money out of pocket. Maybe that's what the rebuilder is hoping for.

EDIT:
He spoke to the service adviser and said he'd take the info to his local dealer and try again. Sometime next week. After he gets back into town.

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Old 03-10-2017, 02:24 PM   #21
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I don't get it. Do they think you would pull your motor and send it to them when you weren't having issues?

Seems like they just don't want to warranty the motor and looking for any excuse. Have they wanted to see your maintenance records as well?
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Old 03-10-2017, 02:31 PM   #22
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Let me know when you are ready to release the builders name, I get questions daily about builders and would like to make people aware in the FB groups and elsewhere.
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Old 03-10-2017, 02:39 PM   #23
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Will do. Right now I'm still hoping for the best and I don't want to do anything to jeopardize it.
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Old 03-10-2017, 03:01 PM   #24
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I don't get it. Do they think you would pull your motor and send it to them when you weren't having issues?

Seems like they just don't want to warranty the motor and looking for any excuse. Have they wanted to see your maintenance records as well?
He briefly mentioned receipts but hasn't said a thing about it since I replied with, "Oh, I got receipts!"
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Old 03-10-2017, 03:07 PM   #25
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At some point, one would think said builder would simply compression test the engine in question out of mere curiosity regarding their own work and for the sake of improving things as well as honing in on a better warranty process, in order to make things more profitable and more reputable for themselves as well as more comfortable for their customers.

Is this stuff really that difficult to figure out for those of us on the supply side of the equation? I don't expect a shop or company to splay themselves whenever a customer says "jump" (and most know I certainly do not, myself) but being an honest business and keeping the vast majority of our customers happy really is not much science as much as it is empathy and reason.

Besides, I view these difficult situations as an opportunity to separate one's self from the rest of the "knuckle-draggers" to whom any customer could have gone.
He did. The numbers I list in the first post are the numbers from his RCT-V5. He's claiming that numbers alone aren't enough to justify a warranty claim; the engine has to be obviously broken (misfires, long/no hot start, stalling hot idle, etc).
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