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Old 02-27-2017, 05:29 PM   #1
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Rebuild warranty issue

UPDATE 4/29/2017:
See here:
https://www.rx8club.com/good-guy-bad...0/#post4817019

I'm having trouble with my engine rebuild after 11 months and the rebuilder is pushing back on my warranty claim. I'm not going to post who it is (yet) because I don't want to burn bridges just (yet). It's Omar Mena at OJ Imports.

We are both seeing similar numbers on our compression testers (both using RCT-V5).
99/96/94 @298 RPM on the front rotor (he sent me a photo of their RCT-V5)
Rear rotor when I tested was just barely above spec and rebuilder reports the same.

The rebuilder has the engine and they can't replicate my intermittent hot-start issue but their numbers match mine. They are claiming that there has to be a hot start/idle issue or compression has to be below 90 psi (no rpm given), or 10 psi diff between faces for a warranty claim (this is nowhere on their website).

The rebuilder claims that the below-spec numbers are due to the fact that they used Atkins seals which don't break in the same and they reused my irons. This sounds like BS to me. If they don't break in then that's a problem. Also, if the reused hardware was out of spec, why didn't they include that in the original rebuild?

Am I being taken for a ride here?

Last edited by NotAPreppie; 05-01-2017 at 02:52 PM.
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Old 02-27-2017, 08:56 PM   #2
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I would ask for a copy of their Warranty that should be available.
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Old 02-28-2017, 09:29 AM   #3
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I'm getting it in bits and pieces via text message as things proceed.

It's incredibly infuriating.

This morning I found out that the warranty underwriter won't even do a compression test if they can't replicate any drivability problems (CEL, hot start, hot idle, etc).

I wouldn't have sent my engine back if I had known they were going to ignore the objective numbers provided by a compression tester. That's the part that kills me.
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Old 02-28-2017, 09:54 AM   #4
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How many miles on this engine?
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Old 02-28-2017, 10:15 AM   #5
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I mean when you say they can't replicate the hot start issue you mean because they don't have the engine in a car right? So how can they say there is not a hot start issue? And how are the testing the compression? Cold on an engine stand? The 10psi difference between faces is pretty standard but they should have that clearly stated.
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Old 02-28-2017, 10:46 AM   #6
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How many miles on this engine?
About 8,500
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Old 02-28-2017, 10:57 AM   #7
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I mean when you say they can't replicate the hot start issue you mean because they don't have the engine in a car right? So how can they say there is not a hot start issue? And how are the testing the compression? Cold on an engine stand? The 10psi difference between faces is pretty standard but they should have that clearly stated.
They claim to have installed the engine in their car and have run almost half a tank of gas through it.

They've sent me photos of their RCT-V5 (same as mine) which show 99/96/94 at 298 RPM. Which, normalized to 250 RPM, is 92/89/87.

Now he's texting me saying that if I took my car to a Mazda dealer with my occaisional hot start issue, they wouldn't run a compression test. Which isn't true if they follow the troubleshooting procedure in the FSM.

He also said that if it were under factory warranty, Mazda wouldn't rebuild it under warranty based solely on these compression numbers (assuming there's no evidence of abuse or neglect).

Very little about the warranty procedure is clearly stated.

Last edited by NotAPreppie; 02-28-2017 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 02-28-2017, 11:18 AM   #8
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Hmmm, pics/vids of it installed? Highly doubt they would go thru that trouble. Disappointing for sure.
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Old 02-28-2017, 11:43 AM   #9
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They could just send me photos of an RX-8. There aren't easily identifiable marks on the shortblock I sent them.
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Old 02-28-2017, 12:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotAPreppie View Post

This morning I found out that the warranty underwriter won't even do a compression test if they can't replicate any drivability problems (CEL, hot start, hot idle, etc).
.

Warranty Underwriter? Most small rebuilders self insure. Sounds like a good excuse to me.

Atkins seals.....

What was the comp like when it was new?
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Old 02-28-2017, 02:39 PM   #11
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Warranty Underwriter? Most small rebuilders self insure. Sounds like a good excuse to me.

Atkins seals.....

What was the comp like when it was new?
I didn't have a compression tester right then so I don't know.

He just got back to me to say the underwriter denied the warranty claim but said he'd reverse that if a Mazda dealer agrees that the engine would hypothetically be rebuilt under warranty.

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Old 02-28-2017, 02:46 PM   #12
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I mean if it is under spec then Mazda would have to replace it. 96.3psi at 298RPM is failing.

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Old 02-28-2017, 08:30 PM   #13
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Yup. Been over that with him. He went off on a detour about Mazda not replacing engines based on compression numbers.
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Old 02-28-2017, 09:08 PM   #14
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SOrry to hear about this OP.... Sounds like my engine builder... Hope you get this straightened out. Very unlikely.... but maybe instead try to see if he will pay you back some labor and take it to someone reputable? Good luck, hope you get this straightened out and healthy!
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Old 03-01-2017, 07:10 AM   #15
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Quote:
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Yup. Been over that with him. He went off on a detour about Mazda not replacing engines based on compression numbers.
Technically, they do not as they also require intake manifold vacuum numbers and altitude above sea level but that is somewhat splitting hairs.

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Old 03-01-2017, 10:47 AM   #16
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^ True. But I would bet money they did not install this engine in a car and get it running, that would be a waste of a lot of time and labor.

But this type of scenario has always been something I have warned people about. Engine warranties are ok, but to get one covered is a painful process. But, with this type rebuild, problems are more likely to arise so I can't say that I am all that surprised. I know the builder and this would be the first negative experience I have heard of, but it's a bad one, if compression is that low and they have no evidence that it was mistreated or boosted or something, then they should send you another rebuilt engine, period.

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Old 03-01-2017, 11:33 AM   #17
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^ True. But I would bet money they did not install this engine in a car and get it running, that would be a waste of a lot of time and labor.

But this type of scenario has always been something I have warned people about. Engine warranties are ok, but to get one covered is a painful process. But, with this type rebuild, problems are more likely to arise so I can't say that I am all that surprised. I know the builder and this would be the first negative experience I have heard of, but it's a bad one, if compression is that low and they have no evidence that it was mistreated or boosted or something, then they should send you another rebuilt engine, period.
He told me they had it installed and had run half a tank of gas through it. Did you miss that or do you think O is lying to me?
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Old 03-01-2017, 11:53 AM   #18
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Quote:
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He told me they had it installed and had run half a tank of gas through it. Did you miss that or do you think O is lying to me?
Yes I think so. I don't see them going thru the hassle of that.
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Old 03-01-2017, 01:17 PM   #19
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Basically the warranty is only as good as the shop that did it.......
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Old 03-01-2017, 03:46 PM   #20
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Basically the warranty is only as good as the shop that did it.......
I once provided partial warranty coverage on an engine I built, after the car changed hands a year or so later, and (even though the second owner later on sold the car) our families are still friends. Sometimes, that can be why good warranty support is important..... :-)
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Old 03-01-2017, 04:18 PM   #21
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Yah... If this were an Indiana Jones movie, an old guy in the corner would be saying, "He chose... poorly."

Last edited by NotAPreppie; 03-01-2017 at 04:22 PM.
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Old 03-02-2017, 08:51 AM   #22
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Just to be clear; I am not trying to criticize anyone or how they handle things in their own company, but I have learned on a few occasions that staunch defense of an ambiguous position, or protecting whatever costs/profits are wrapped up with a particular customer and their car, are not always the best long-term approach. My warranty example was given as neither the customer nor I could figure out why the engine sustained the minor damage it did long after I built it, so we split the cost of the "re-rebuild" and they handled the engine R+R. I may have lost a few bucks, and they later sold the car, but they became big BHR fans and family friends in the process.

To me, THAT is worth the price of all of you allowing me to be a part of this small, tight-knit, community. :-)
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Old 03-02-2017, 11:01 AM   #23
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And I'm definitely reaching a point in my life where I'm willing to pay a bit more to not have to dick around to get what I want.
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Old 03-02-2017, 12:09 PM   #24
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And I'm definitely reaching a point in my life where I'm willing to pay a bit more to not have to dick around to get what I want.
My wife and I turned that same corner a while back and, ironically enough (to some), it actually saves money in the long run as well as assuring happiness. Whether the home we purchased, the people we hired and stuff we bought while building the new BHR HQ, and even the restaurants we patronize, we spend a little extra (after a bit of easy research) and are always satisfied with the quality of product and quality of service/attentiveness we receive in the outcome. I guess that comes with age, LOL.
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Old 03-10-2017, 12:55 PM   #25
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Still getting jerked around.

Rebuilder claims that Mazda has to see issue with misfires, warm start or warm stalling to proceed with a compression test.

I just spoke to a service adviser at Autobarn City Mazda and posed this situation to him. He said that if they can't replicate the issues they will still run a compression test and, if failing, contact Mazda corporate to start the ball rolling on a warranty replacement. He also said that he's had customers without symptoms offer to pay for a compression test and end up getting engines replaced under warranty.

I relayed this and the contact info of the dealer guy to the rebuilder. Rebuilder said he'd call and "see if he can help with this."

I'm so sick of this ****.

At this point I'd be happy just to get my engine back with no more money out of pocket. Maybe that's what the rebuilder is hoping for.

EDIT:
He spoke to the service adviser and said he'd take the info to his local dealer and try again. Sometime next week. After he gets back into town.

Last edited by NotAPreppie; 03-10-2017 at 01:32 PM.
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