Has my cat gone and a few questions?
04-20-2010, 11:42 AM
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Has my cat gone and a few questions?
I'm 99% sure my catalytic converter has finally gone kaput, but heres the situation.
For about 6 months or so I've had a bit of a rattling noise in my exhaust, came and went. It was quiet could only here it by getting out of the car and standing next to the exhaust pipes while it was idling but it was there.
Yesterday morning on the way to work the car felt a little low powered but I didn't really notice it at the time, on the way home I felt it more and noticed it had alot of trouble at about 6-7k rpms when I tried to redline it through 1st and 2nd on the on ramp so I just drove it nicely for the rest of the trip home.
Once I got home and had someone to rescue me if it gave up and died on me I took it out to get some more exact information. It idles fine and starts without any issue, engine sounds normal to me, there is power loss across the board and it struggles to get past 6500 rpm even with the clutch pressed to the floor. I did manage to get the CEL to flash at me during one acceleration test, but it hasn't turned on yet.
The car is drivable and goes to freeway speeds alright but I've been driving it "nice" (under 4.5k) and taking it easy until I solve the problem as I would guess that pushing the car at higher rpms would be more likely to further mess up the cat (assuming that is the problem).
From everything I have read this sounds like the cat has one and is screwing my performance until I get it replaced. However I don't have the spare cash right at the moment to do that. So... What I'd like to do is the DIY: gut your cat mod as a temp fix until I can afford to drop a nice shiny new one on or more likely an entire cat back exhaust system.
Before I go ruining my cat though is there any way I can test my theory? I've seen some videos of what appears to be people reving the car up with no exhaust on it at all, would it be bad to drop the cat off the bottom and start her up and give it some gas to see if it revs normally? I wouldn't be driving it like this just sitting on jack stands to give it a single rev or two up.
Thanks in advance for any advice!
For about 6 months or so I've had a bit of a rattling noise in my exhaust, came and went. It was quiet could only here it by getting out of the car and standing next to the exhaust pipes while it was idling but it was there.
Yesterday morning on the way to work the car felt a little low powered but I didn't really notice it at the time, on the way home I felt it more and noticed it had alot of trouble at about 6-7k rpms when I tried to redline it through 1st and 2nd on the on ramp so I just drove it nicely for the rest of the trip home.
Once I got home and had someone to rescue me if it gave up and died on me I took it out to get some more exact information. It idles fine and starts without any issue, engine sounds normal to me, there is power loss across the board and it struggles to get past 6500 rpm even with the clutch pressed to the floor. I did manage to get the CEL to flash at me during one acceleration test, but it hasn't turned on yet.
The car is drivable and goes to freeway speeds alright but I've been driving it "nice" (under 4.5k) and taking it easy until I solve the problem as I would guess that pushing the car at higher rpms would be more likely to further mess up the cat (assuming that is the problem).
From everything I have read this sounds like the cat has one and is screwing my performance until I get it replaced. However I don't have the spare cash right at the moment to do that. So... What I'd like to do is the DIY: gut your cat mod as a temp fix until I can afford to drop a nice shiny new one on or more likely an entire cat back exhaust system.
Before I go ruining my cat though is there any way I can test my theory? I've seen some videos of what appears to be people reving the car up with no exhaust on it at all, would it be bad to drop the cat off the bottom and start her up and give it some gas to see if it revs normally? I wouldn't be driving it like this just sitting on jack stands to give it a single rev or two up.
Thanks in advance for any advice!
04-20-2010, 12:31 PM
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I do believe their is a warranty for catalytic converters that goes beyond the short bumper to bumper. I don't know the miles on your car but you may still be eligible for it. So i wouldn't go banging out the insides of your clogged cat until your sure you don't qualify for that warranty.
04-20-2010, 12:56 PM
#3
I believe the cat is 8 years 80k miles. (In North America)
A flashing CEL means a mis-fire. So, the other possible causes for this could be plugs and coils, the usual suspects. But that doesn't rule out your cat.
After driving, did you look under your car at your cat? If its plugged it'll glow red hot. Other signs will be the smell... it should smell like sulfur or rotten eggs when its on its way out and beginning to melt.
As for to test your theory... short of borrowing a confirmed cat that is in good condition or a straight pipe with no cat, you're pretty limited.
when is the last time you have changed plugs and coils?
Bad plugs = poor ignition = unburnt fuel = more fuel in cat = hotter cat = cat melts.
Bad coils = poor ignition. ""---------------""
So, these are all possible causes.
If money is tight, I would try to bust out the center of your cat if you KNOW for sure its bad and not covered under warranty. If it is covered, I would try to get the dealer to cover coils and plugs under warranty also stating that the cat failing caused the plugs to foul and coils to fail.
If that's not an option, bust out your cat and limp it along until you can replace the coils and plugs yourself.
These are just my opinions though. . .
A flashing CEL means a mis-fire. So, the other possible causes for this could be plugs and coils, the usual suspects. But that doesn't rule out your cat.
After driving, did you look under your car at your cat? If its plugged it'll glow red hot. Other signs will be the smell... it should smell like sulfur or rotten eggs when its on its way out and beginning to melt.
As for to test your theory... short of borrowing a confirmed cat that is in good condition or a straight pipe with no cat, you're pretty limited.
when is the last time you have changed plugs and coils?
Bad plugs = poor ignition = unburnt fuel = more fuel in cat = hotter cat = cat melts.
Bad coils = poor ignition. ""---------------""
So, these are all possible causes.
If money is tight, I would try to bust out the center of your cat if you KNOW for sure its bad and not covered under warranty. If it is covered, I would try to get the dealer to cover coils and plugs under warranty also stating that the cat failing caused the plugs to foul and coils to fail.
If that's not an option, bust out your cat and limp it along until you can replace the coils and plugs yourself.
These are just my opinions though. . .
04-20-2010, 01:06 PM
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Car has 85K on it, all my warranties are gone except for the magical 100K engine we got recently. But I'm pretty sure that only covers like rotors apex seals and some other whatchamacallits up in the engine itself. Don't think my cat is covered.
Thanks though.
Also I don't know if the cat has ever been replaced before I bought the car at 44K.
Thanks though.
Also I don't know if the cat has ever been replaced before I bought the car at 44K.
04-20-2010, 02:30 PM
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Yeah about that... I'm quite sure I should replace the coils and wires, and I would not be surprised at all to learn that my failure to do so earlier has killed the cat.
I'm past the 80K mark so the problem is mine to fix whatever it is. My biggest question is will my thought of dropping the cat off and giving her a rev damage anything or is it safe to take the cat pipe off and start her up, no driving it like this of course, but nothing where the cat should be, not even a pipe to the back of the car.
Like I said the flashing cel only happened once, I was unable to get that to occur again and she idles fine. Can I pull a code for a flashing cel at autozone or the like? Or will they only be able to grab something from a solid cel?
Assuming that you guys say I can get away with dropping the cat fr a rev test, and that it tells me (to my satisfaction) it's the cat that has gone clogged. I'm thinking my best bet is gut the cat, replace plugs/coils (wires too probably) as soon as I can, and then drop in a nice new exhaust next.
Also thanks for the detailed reply Vyndictive I hadn't seen it yet when I replied the first time.
I'm past the 80K mark so the problem is mine to fix whatever it is. My biggest question is will my thought of dropping the cat off and giving her a rev damage anything or is it safe to take the cat pipe off and start her up, no driving it like this of course, but nothing where the cat should be, not even a pipe to the back of the car.
Like I said the flashing cel only happened once, I was unable to get that to occur again and she idles fine. Can I pull a code for a flashing cel at autozone or the like? Or will they only be able to grab something from a solid cel?
Assuming that you guys say I can get away with dropping the cat fr a rev test, and that it tells me (to my satisfaction) it's the cat that has gone clogged. I'm thinking my best bet is gut the cat, replace plugs/coils (wires too probably) as soon as I can, and then drop in a nice new exhaust next.
Also thanks for the detailed reply Vyndictive I hadn't seen it yet when I replied the first time.
04-20-2010, 03:57 PM
#7
No problem, glad to help...
Anyway, your idea of testing the engine by removing the cat works in theory, the problem is that your plugs and coils will only miss if the engine is under load. The engine is not going to be under load if its just revving.
You "could" take it for a drive... the problem then becomes the fact that you're running open headers which poses two problems.
1. Its going to be BEYOND loud. Not a pleasent loud either, like metal hitting metal loud... I started my car during a mid pipe install just to see what it sounded like... and its awful.
2. The real problem is going to exhaust gas heat. The exhaust temps heat up so fast so quickly that you risk doing thermal damage to all the componants that are near the header. Transmission and burning the body, and wiring harnesses (o2 sensor) and brake lines, etc.
I stick by my solution of bust out the guts of your cat and try it that way until you get the money for plugs and coils. That is the cheapest way to cover all your bases.
Don't confuse cheapest with best... the best thing to do would be purchase a proper mid-pipe and do plugs and coils... but that is going to run 170-300 bucks for the midpipe.
Anyway, your idea of testing the engine by removing the cat works in theory, the problem is that your plugs and coils will only miss if the engine is under load. The engine is not going to be under load if its just revving.
You "could" take it for a drive... the problem then becomes the fact that you're running open headers which poses two problems.
1. Its going to be BEYOND loud. Not a pleasent loud either, like metal hitting metal loud... I started my car during a mid pipe install just to see what it sounded like... and its awful.
2. The real problem is going to exhaust gas heat. The exhaust temps heat up so fast so quickly that you risk doing thermal damage to all the componants that are near the header. Transmission and burning the body, and wiring harnesses (o2 sensor) and brake lines, etc.
I stick by my solution of bust out the guts of your cat and try it that way until you get the money for plugs and coils. That is the cheapest way to cover all your bases.
Don't confuse cheapest with best... the best thing to do would be purchase a proper mid-pipe and do plugs and coils... but that is going to run 170-300 bucks for the midpipe.
04-20-2010, 04:22 PM
#9
Stop following me!
Hasn't it become clear that my goal on rx8club is to spread misinformation about warranty coverage and raise havoc for dealers worldwide?
Or my car is modded to the point that I will never have a warranty ever again so I really don't know much about them.
Hasn't it become clear that my goal on rx8club is to spread misinformation about warranty coverage and raise havoc for dealers worldwide?
Or my car is modded to the point that I will never have a warranty ever again so I really don't know much about them.
04-20-2010, 04:49 PM
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Thanks all for the replies. I suspect it's not the coils/spark that is my main problem, it struggles to pass 6500 RPM parked in neutral with the clutch to the floor.
I'll debate about just gutting it or performing my little test first... we'll see how I feel after I've actually unbolted the thing.
And yeah I know a gutted cat is far from "best". However it will (presuming I'm correct that the cat is my problem) allow me to get on the freeway without feeling like I'm driving a damned minivan.
And I know I should change my plugs, last year was hell for me financially and I'm just starting to get back to happy land now. I should be able to get plugs/coils/wires in a couple of weeks, just as soon as I pay all the bills.
I'll be sure to let everyone know how it goes when I'm done, maybe get some decent pictures while I'm at it.
I'll debate about just gutting it or performing my little test first... we'll see how I feel after I've actually unbolted the thing.
And yeah I know a gutted cat is far from "best". However it will (presuming I'm correct that the cat is my problem) allow me to get on the freeway without feeling like I'm driving a damned minivan.
And I know I should change my plugs, last year was hell for me financially and I'm just starting to get back to happy land now. I should be able to get plugs/coils/wires in a couple of weeks, just as soon as I pay all the bills.
I'll be sure to let everyone know how it goes when I'm done, maybe get some decent pictures while I'm at it.
04-21-2010, 02:33 AM
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Well none of my plots of cat gutting or testing really happened as me and my friend where unable to get the damned bolts to budge at all even with my shiny 24" breaker bar.
I might give it another try tomorrow, see if I can't get it up off the ground a bit more to get better leverage but we'll see... If worst comes to worst I'll just buy a high flo cat and take it to the local muffler guys I know and say "You do it!". As soon as I have $$$ at least. If it gets to much worse than it is now I may be forced to ride my motorcycle in the rain to get to work, not exactly fun but doable.
Again, thanks for the advice and we'll see how it goes next round.
I might give it another try tomorrow, see if I can't get it up off the ground a bit more to get better leverage but we'll see... If worst comes to worst I'll just buy a high flo cat and take it to the local muffler guys I know and say "You do it!". As soon as I have $$$ at least. If it gets to much worse than it is now I may be forced to ride my motorcycle in the rain to get to work, not exactly fun but doable.
Again, thanks for the advice and we'll see how it goes next round.
04-21-2010, 07:46 PM
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Well it threw a solid CEL light at me this morning, P0410... Something to do with an air pump for the cat during startup or some such... Still researching. From what I've found that doesn't explain power loss though.
If you have any magical hints for me I'd love to hear them, otherwise I'll just keep googling till I find more about what this code actually means.
If you have any magical hints for me I'd love to hear them, otherwise I'll just keep googling till I find more about what this code actually means.
04-25-2010, 08:55 PM
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Well finally me and my buddy found time and skill enough to actually follow through with this plan. Once we got the cat off it was a case of "Well theres your problem!" pieces literally fell out of it once we turned it over.
Gave it a start and a rev anyway to confirm, I did get a video of this, I'll try to get it online at some point for people.
Gutted the cat, bolted it back on and gave it a run on the butt dyno which reports mucho power has returned. I will also never tire of that pop it now makes during high rpm shifts
Once it's dark outside I'll have to see if I'm getting flames too
As soon as I can the plugs/coils/wires are being replaced, and then I'll probably put a supercat or equivalent on. Thanks to all for the assistance and advice.
Gave it a start and a rev anyway to confirm, I did get a video of this, I'll try to get it online at some point for people.
Gutted the cat, bolted it back on and gave it a run on the butt dyno which reports mucho power has returned. I will also never tire of that pop it now makes during high rpm shifts
Once it's dark outside I'll have to see if I'm getting flames tooAs soon as I can the plugs/coils/wires are being replaced, and then I'll probably put a supercat or equivalent on. Thanks to all for the assistance and advice.
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