Finish rebuild,car starts, car revs, but wont hold idle.
03-02-2012, 08:07 AM
#26
The Prototype
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After a tune (go buy an accessport!) we will know more.
However there is more to intake ports design than just "volume". Their shape is just as important (if not more, to an extent), the way the air goes into the chamber is vital, too.
Think about the difference between farting and gently blowing.Intake charges generally like the latter.
Don't get me wrong, I applaud your effort but being a guinea pig requires a lot of money, knowledge and time. Knowledge wise you're still lacking so starting off with an unknown learning base (weird porting) isn't the easiest way to learn.
Think about doing complex equations before learning additions and subtractions
To do this kind of stuff i would have used better tools, too. How did you pick up hole locations? Is there a logic to this? Since there's no way to really individually tune the front and rear rotor in your case even a .5mm difference in the porting can play a role.
That's definitely not the kind of build you want to do on a bucket with free hand grinded seals and way too much assembly lube...
If you read what i wrote in your other thread... picking the right builder is crucial
However there is more to intake ports design than just "volume". Their shape is just as important (if not more, to an extent), the way the air goes into the chamber is vital, too.
Think about the difference between farting and gently blowing.Intake charges generally like the latter.
Don't get me wrong, I applaud your effort but being a guinea pig requires a lot of money, knowledge and time. Knowledge wise you're still lacking so starting off with an unknown learning base (weird porting) isn't the easiest way to learn.
Think about doing complex equations before learning additions and subtractions
To do this kind of stuff i would have used better tools, too. How did you pick up hole locations? Is there a logic to this? Since there's no way to really individually tune the front and rear rotor in your case even a .5mm difference in the porting can play a role.
That's definitely not the kind of build you want to do on a bucket with free hand grinded seals and way too much assembly lube...
If you read what i wrote in your other thread... picking the right builder is crucial
One thing I notice in the rotary community, there are rotary builders who have there own style of porting, building,tips, etc. Some ideas work , some don't. The 5 port from my understanding was done for people who did not want to go into a full bridge port and the associated dangers of over heating, hard starts, etc. Not to mention that bridgeported rotaries being daily driven for reliability purpouses is practically thrown out the window. There great track cars, not so great as street cars for daily drivers.
If you want to know the method to my builders madnes, I can PM you his number or email this way he can answer any questions you have.
Last edited by DailyDriver2k5; 03-02-2012 at 08:15 AM.
03-02-2012, 08:15 AM
#27
The reverse "D" peripheral exhaust port was used for quite some time, before effectively ending in the trash bin...
Keep in mind that the renny differs greatly from previous generation rotaries, especially in how it deals with the combustion process. Intake port timing and size differences play a great role in what kind of porting may be beneficial and what may be not.
With this said: go finish your break-in period, get the car tuned and prove me wrong!
Keep in mind that the renny differs greatly from previous generation rotaries, especially in how it deals with the combustion process. Intake port timing and size differences play a great role in what kind of porting may be beneficial and what may be not.
With this said: go finish your break-in period, get the car tuned and prove me wrong!
03-02-2012, 08:20 AM
#28
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The reverse "D" peripheral exhaust port was used for quite some time, before effectively ending in the trash bin...
Keep in mind that the renny differs greatly from previous generation rotaries, especially in how it deals with the combustion process. Intake port timing and size differences play a great role in what kind of porting may be beneficial and what may be not.
With this said: go finish your break-in period, get the car tuned and prove me wrong!
Keep in mind that the renny differs greatly from previous generation rotaries, especially in how it deals with the combustion process. Intake port timing and size differences play a great role in what kind of porting may be beneficial and what may be not.
With this said: go finish your break-in period, get the car tuned and prove me wrong!
Rather I want to learn and come to understand these motors as much as anybody else in the rotary world. And see what works and what doesn't.
Speaking from experience so far... this works. I'll will keep you and the rest of the community posted on any negative or positive results. Now I got to find a Cobb Accessport for a good price.
03-02-2012, 08:24 AM
#29
Speaking from experience so far... you don't know if this works.
You only have an engine that's been slowly dying for months as a comparison! I love giving you a hard time since you apparently take it the right way.
Some datalogged pulls that show your maf readings + rpms, load, tps and ltft\stft would be a good baseline to start discussing your porting.
You only have an engine that's been slowly dying for months as a comparison! I love giving you a hard time since you apparently take it the right way.
Some datalogged pulls that show your maf readings + rpms, load, tps and ltft\stft would be a good baseline to start discussing your porting.
03-02-2012, 08:40 AM
#30
You are brave in your forthrightness, I will give you that .....
You ned to get an Accessport..no doubt about that
As fast as the idle goes..none of the intake solenoids matters
Check the rear rotor injector writing...they are usually the ones that get mixed up
I would stool try and borrow a throttle body if it runs unplugged...it defaults to a higher idle if the TB quits working
.....You ned to get an Accessport..no doubt about that
As fast as the idle goes..none of the intake solenoids matters
Check the rear rotor injector writing...they are usually the ones that get mixed up
I would stool try and borrow a throttle body if it runs unplugged...it defaults to a higher idle if the TB quits working
03-02-2012, 08:44 AM
#31
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Speaking from experience so far... you don't know if this works.
You only have an engine that's been slowly dying for months as a comparison! I love giving you a hard time since you apparently take it the right way.
Some datalogged pulls that show your maf readings + rpms, load, tps and ltft\stft would be a good baseline to start discussing your porting.
You only have an engine that's been slowly dying for months as a comparison! I love giving you a hard time since you apparently take it the right way.
Some datalogged pulls that show your maf readings + rpms, load, tps and ltft\stft would be a good baseline to start discussing your porting.
But if someone wants to have a normal conversation about the pros and cons of a persons actions,or can give insight on how to make those actions better, I am game. After all ,we are on the same team , no need to tear down a person , rather I seek to re-adjust ones thinking if that individual is heading into troubled waters. Very true about my motor comparison. I'll post the data once I get it, would like to post the differences to a stock tune if you or anybody has one when the time comes to compare the two. I'll try and get the Cobb in two weeks time.
Thanks again for the helpful info!
03-02-2012, 08:49 AM
#32
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You are brave in your forthrightness, I will give you that .....
You ned to get an Accessport..no doubt about that
As fast as the idle goes..none of the intake solenoids matters
Check the rear rotor injector writing...they are usually the ones that get mixed up
I would stool try and borrow a throttle body if it runs unplugged...it defaults to a higher idle if the TB quits working
.....You ned to get an Accessport..no doubt about that
As fast as the idle goes..none of the intake solenoids matters
Check the rear rotor injector writing...they are usually the ones that get mixed up
I would stool try and borrow a throttle body if it runs unplugged...it defaults to a higher idle if the TB quits working
Last edited by DailyDriver2k5; 03-02-2012 at 08:52 AM.
03-02-2012, 09:14 AM
#33
I think there was a thread on the injector wiring...have a look around
The trick is to lok at the wire colors on the plugs...and the position the wires come off the harness....cause if I remember correctly there are 2 with the same wire color, but different positions in the rear rotor harness
The trick is to lok at the wire colors on the plugs...and the position the wires come off the harness....cause if I remember correctly there are 2 with the same wire color, but different positions in the rear rotor harness
03-06-2012, 02:16 PM
#35
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Update: Car still is running strong, start ups are still on the money.
Ordered the Cobb Access port!
Charles, I spoke to RedDozen, good guy and has a wealth of info!
300 more miles to fully break in.
Ordered the Cobb Access port!
Charles, I spoke to RedDozen, good guy and has a wealth of info!
300 more miles to fully break in.
03-13-2012, 08:43 AM
#39
just found this thread. Kudo's dude--for the experiment and for your attitude.
Really interested in the data you collect.
One thing that comes to my mind is the maf? Maybe the maf is not good, or maybe your front o2 sensor is acting up? Just thoughts. The Cobb will help you figue out exactly what is wrong.
I do love the brp-brp sound. You may have to bump up the idle speed a little--like to 1200rpm or so?
You dont have a cat do you?
Really interested in the data you collect.
One thing that comes to my mind is the maf? Maybe the maf is not good, or maybe your front o2 sensor is acting up? Just thoughts. The Cobb will help you figue out exactly what is wrong.
I do love the brp-brp sound. You may have to bump up the idle speed a little--like to 1200rpm or so?
You dont have a cat do you?
03-13-2012, 09:19 AM
#40
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just found this thread. Kudo's dude--for the experiment and for your attitude.
Really interested in the data you collect.
One thing that comes to my mind is the maf? Maybe the maf is not good, or maybe your front o2 sensor is acting up? Just thoughts. The Cobb will help you figue out exactly what is wrong.
I do love the brp-brp sound. You may have to bump up the idle speed a little--like to 1200rpm or so?
You dont have a cat do you?
Really interested in the data you collect.
One thing that comes to my mind is the maf? Maybe the maf is not good, or maybe your front o2 sensor is acting up? Just thoughts. The Cobb will help you figue out exactly what is wrong.
I do love the brp-brp sound. You may have to bump up the idle speed a little--like to 1200rpm or so?
You dont have a cat do you?
Oldragger, the weird thing is that when I take off the TPS , the cars idles fine. Unfortunatley because of the TPS removed , throttle action is slow. The ECU throws the car in limp mode.
How could I text the MAF to see if that is the problem? I have 1 more week left before my Cobb arrives and like you mentined I will know for sure what the problem is then.
Funny you mentioned the cat. Last Friday on the way home from work, my car felt like it had no power above 5k rpm. I had to literally turn the car off while I was in gear on the highway and turn the car back on before it would go into limp mode every 15 min. I thought for sure it was my cat. No power, no throttle response, etc.
Took the cat off Saturday, looked inside and guess what? No honey comb.... completetly gone like I never had one. I jumped on the forums and saw pictures of others peoples cat , there honey comb was there. Before the rebuild around the 155k mark, I noticed one morning I started to smell more than usual gas fumes coming from my exhaust. After several 100 miles later, the gas fumes went back to normal Now I know why.... I must have totally blew out the honey comb around that time. Unfortunately I am thinking I may have some chunks of honey comb stuck in my muffler. It flows good, but like somebody mentioned , it may flow good, but it may not be flowing to its fullest capacity.
Well after an hour of searching and digging, another forum member I read about was having the same symptoms. He found out too that his cat was fine. But further inspection he found out it was his ECT sensor. Engine Coolant Temp sensor, picked one up for $16 bucks and replaced it.
That was the problem, the sensor was faulty and was giving the false readings to the ecu that the car was overheating and causing the car to go into limp mode which was masking itself as a bad cat. I can rev fine now , unfortunately when it gets to 8500-9000 it starts choking like the car is getting to much gas and not enough spark. That little episode must have fouled out my plugs.
Ordered Racing Beat wires and race plugs for ported motors. Now just patiently waiting for the Cobb to come. I am in desperate need of a tune.
Last edited by DailyDriver2k5; 03-13-2012 at 09:50 AM.
03-13-2012, 09:29 AM
#41
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When I build piston motors , I use a engine stand , but since this was my first rotary I figured I would watch and learn.When we opened the motor up after taking it out of the car. Using the bucket made sense. When you flip that baby over , the left over coolant and oil all fall into the bucket instead of the floor.
Another reason is putting that DAMN E shaft back in! Also trying to put the first intermediate back on without having your apex, side seals,pac mans all fall out the minute you touch the housing would be hell to do on a engine stand. Doing it on the bucket is alot easier , especially when placing that E-shaft back in the first housing. You have to have the patience of GOD when putting a rotary back together. Its very time consuming then putting a piston motor together.
Somebody needs to invent a vertical engine stand for rotaries.
Last edited by DailyDriver2k5; 03-13-2012 at 09:33 AM.
03-13-2012, 10:27 AM
#42
FULLY SEMI AUTOMATIC
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there is an adapter for an engine stand iirc
03-13-2012, 11:38 AM
#44
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Ordered the plugs because its recommended for ported motors.This is the description that RB has on there web site,
"The NGK R6725-10.5 spark plug is the Racing Beat-recommended Spark Plug for 12A and 13B Bridge/Peripheral Port Engines in either a Turbo or Non Turbo application. Price shown is for one (1) plug. This spark plug is used for both LEADING and TRAILING positions. This spark plug is NOT generally recommended for street use, unless you are running a highly boosted turbo-charged engine."
03-13-2012, 12:01 PM
#46
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I didn't mean it like that...sorry if you took it out of context.LOL.
Ordered the plugs because its recommended for ported motors.This is the description that RB has on there web site,
"The NGK R6725-10.5 spark plug is the Racing Beat-recommended Spark Plug for 12A and 13B Bridge/Peripheral Port Engines in either a Turbo or Non Turbo application. Price shown is for one (1) plug. This spark plug is used for both LEADING and TRAILING positions. This spark plug is NOT generally recommended for street use, unless you are running a highly boosted turbo-charged engine."
Ordered the plugs because its recommended for ported motors.This is the description that RB has on there web site,
"The NGK R6725-10.5 spark plug is the Racing Beat-recommended Spark Plug for 12A and 13B Bridge/Peripheral Port Engines in either a Turbo or Non Turbo application. Price shown is for one (1) plug. This spark plug is used for both LEADING and TRAILING positions. This spark plug is NOT generally recommended for street use, unless you are running a highly boosted turbo-charged engine."
Why do you feel these plugs are best for your NA application and will help with the issues you are having?
03-13-2012, 12:24 PM
#47
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I felt that the plugs would help in burning the extra fuel, but thinking about it further, once the car is tuned, the computer will determine the amount of fuel and spark that is needed.
03-14-2012, 09:27 AM
#48
one old mechanics tricks is trying to figue out if the maf is good or not without the "proper" tools is while the engine is idling--take a screwdriver and just lightly tap the sensor. if the idle changes then that may mean the sensor is bad.
I think with a ported and tuned engine the cat may have a problem with the additional fuel being pushed through it?
also at warm up the o2 sensor is thrown off because of the airpump. The ecu has a compensation for that and that needs to be addressed if the pump is removed. I assume that you will be running catless?
I would like to pass on a little hint about how to make these expensive sparkplugs last longer. Buy an inexpensive ultrasonic cleaning maching---Harbor frieght or Notherntools stores have them. Fill it up to the recommended level with vinerger and put the plugs in. They will come out looking and running like brand new plugs.
I think with a ported and tuned engine the cat may have a problem with the additional fuel being pushed through it?
also at warm up the o2 sensor is thrown off because of the airpump. The ecu has a compensation for that and that needs to be addressed if the pump is removed. I assume that you will be running catless?
I would like to pass on a little hint about how to make these expensive sparkplugs last longer. Buy an inexpensive ultrasonic cleaning maching---Harbor frieght or Notherntools stores have them. Fill it up to the recommended level with vinerger and put the plugs in. They will come out looking and running like brand new plugs.
03-14-2012, 09:41 AM
#49
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I removed the air pump on my car and I am ported and nothing was ever changed to address the air pump removal. But I do think his problems are related to the "unique" porting he did.
03-14-2012, 10:16 AM
#50
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one old mechanics tricks is trying to figue out if the maf is good or not without the "proper" tools is while the engine is idling--take a screwdriver and just lightly tap the sensor. if the idle changes then that may mean the sensor is bad.
I think with a ported and tuned engine the cat may have a problem with the additional fuel being pushed through it?
also at warm up the o2 sensor is thrown off because of the airpump. The ecu has a compensation for that and that needs to be addressed if the pump is removed. I assume that you will be running catless?
I would like to pass on a little hint about how to make these expensive sparkplugs last longer. Buy an inexpensive ultrasonic cleaning maching---Harbor frieght or Notherntools stores have them. Fill it up to the recommended level with vinerger and put the plugs in. They will come out looking and running like brand new plugs.
I think with a ported and tuned engine the cat may have a problem with the additional fuel being pushed through it?
also at warm up the o2 sensor is thrown off because of the airpump. The ecu has a compensation for that and that needs to be addressed if the pump is removed. I assume that you will be running catless?
I would like to pass on a little hint about how to make these expensive sparkplugs last longer. Buy an inexpensive ultrasonic cleaning maching---Harbor frieght or Notherntools stores have them. Fill it up to the recommended level with vinerger and put the plugs in. They will come out looking and running like brand new plugs.