It finally happened
 

I always knew that I would loose the engine, being an 04 and heavily modded. I just did not think it would happen so soon. I've been having some ongoing small problems and one large problem with heat for sometime. My friends Ray (Charles R. Hill), Jeff (Mazda Maniac) and Eric (Easy_E1) were in town this weekend for an event and to work on my car.

Jeff & Ray have been trying to blame several of the small problems on an engine problem for some time and I resisted because the driveability was so smooth. Like an idiot I blamed my problem on some other mechanical problem or tuning. They did a compression test, and found that I was consistently down 50 pounds. It looks like I am joining the club on engine failure.

Jeff figures that it was one too many over heating sessions that may have caused this, Ray is not sure.

I will have Ray rebuild the engine as soon as his move to Arizona is complete. He's talking about a live video session. Since Ray is still working on it, I'll expand this thread as stuff happens.

Aye :(

Do you think u can put it back to stock and have Mazda replace the engine? you probably can save a few bucks there

Sorry to hear that Phil.............................another auto 04 down the tubes. I know it's not the fact that it's the 04 or the fact that it's and auto necessarily, it's just another one bites the dust.

Oh man, that's not good news.

At least you have the Black Halo Team helping you out.
Another incentive to get Ray finally out to the west even quicker.

Good luck Phil.

:(:(

My local Mazda shop put me in the computer as having excessive mods so I doubt that will be workable. On top of that some of the stock stuff that I had was adapted when the s/c went on and several others have borrowed stuff over the years when theirs engines went south.

Here in Vegas it has not made any difference if it was MT or AT quite a few 04s and 05s have lost the engines (mostly early 04s). Easy E-1 I believe is on his 4th motor and Phoenix has a similar problem. One of the Mechanics from the local dealer told us that they were replacing equal numbers of engines in AT & MT but that was last year.

My failure was most likely due to overheating as I have always stayed ahead of the game on oiling and carbon buildup. I don't think I will ever know what caused it for sure.

^^oh ... I see.

Hmm, if CRH gonna rebuild ur engine u will know if u're carbon lock or whatever.

Have you run a compression check on ur engine b4 you install the SC ?

Yeah, a good compression tester is a rotary enthusiasts best friend.:)

Sorry to hear Phil. If Ray is going to be working on it for you, he may be able to give a better idea of what occurred upon doing so.

Ray will defiantly do the rebuild and if it is carbon he will know. The car is still running and while down on compression and low end power, will operate. I intend to use it while waiting for Ray's move.

Well that just blows, Phil.

I'll go run mine around the block just for you.

hard luck Phil - I think it was the oversized jugs that did it ....

HA!
Seriously Phil do a good carbon cleansing before the final diag is given. Plugs out, lots of atf in,in all 3 chambers of each rotor, hand rotate her and let her sit overnight. Use the starter the next morning (with plugs out), put the plugs in, let the neighbors know about the toxic cloud headed their way, then fire her up.
After that buy a water meth system.:)
Good luck friend.
If you do need a rebuild do some reading on JHB's site
OD

Phil,

sorry to hear about this. :( Your car was a BLAST to drive and I'm sure after the BHR team is all done with it, it'll be better then EVER. Time to upgrade to a 6 port AT. ;)

We'll talk more in a few weeks when I get there.

sorry about the news phil...your rebuild will def. be in good hands cant wait to see the broadcast!

Phil, Are you in good hands ?

Yes, u're in good hands :) (got that line from All State Commercial )

That really sucks man, sorry to hear it, but definitely do a full de-carbon before you start tearing that sucker apart.

Ray and I were discussing this a little while ago. Does seem strange to lose one so early in it's life. I think Phil said it had about 15,000 miles on it. I lost my first one at about 30,000 miles.
But anyway on to bigger and better things. I can foresee a quick turn around for you Phil on the engine rebuild. We were talking about 1 week maximum. Picked up and delivered.
That's how we roll. :eyetwitch

Sorry Phil.

Time to upgrade with a 2nd oil cooler

I still have two oil coolers on my car (1st mod I made). The only cooler I removed was a second tranny cooler that was not needed when I installed the BHR radiator. Why am I still overheating with all the cooling stuff I have added? I don't think any one really knows but everything will be looked at during the rebuild process.

I have been told that Jeff, Ray and Eric are planning on a live video of the rebuild process with something about using several cameras or some such stuff. I will let them say more about it but I did ask them to have it happen on this thread so that we would have it for posterity.

Since my car is still running (and not that badly), the unholy trio will drive the car to Phoenix when they are here for the SoCal joint meet (now called the Tristate meet).

Are you just saying overheating, or have you been watching the temps sit in the danger zone?

If you've been watching the temps, do you know approx how much cooling the mods have done over stock?

Having gone through a rebuild recently, I know just how much of a bummer it is.

Jeff, Ray, Eric and I discussed this quite extensivly as I do not want to go thru this every 15000 miles. The consensis was that my problem was due to over heating. I am not sure if we will ever know for sure. I understand how you felt.

Ever since summer hit, I have been activly watching the temperatures. When the air temps were down below 100 I did not have a problem as my scan gauge temperature was showing 230 on occasion but would drop down very quickly. As soon as the air temps rose to 105 and higher I was recording temps of well over 230 and not droping off very quickly. Ray and I were having converstions during that time to try and figure out what was suddenly wrong.

I would not venture to say that the readings I was getting earlier were correct and that I was interperating them correctly to venture any input on what each of the cooling mods were doing at any given time. At the time I felt confident of them but not now.

Phil,

So sorry to hear that, man. I've always rooted for you as one of our AT pioneers.

I would agree with the others, do a good carbon cleaning on it (seafoam, I believe it is called) and see if the numbers improve at all.

If all else fails, move here to the midwest!

Everyone is relatively sure it's not carbon. A move to the mid west is out - I require year round sunshine. I have been at shows in Chicago in the winter - everyone looks like they are sick:) :) The pot holes are so big they would swallow my poor 8:uhh: :Eyecrazy: . I could not take the cold and the humidity. You guys are a stronger breed for living in that climate.

Those are the people that come to Chicago for those shows. :)

That's what we say about the people in Minnesota. :)

Well Phil you sure have knowledgeble people with ya.
Cooling issues for this car seems to be strangely differant. Who would have ever thought the humidity would play such an important role? I think that is the summation now? I mean temps here in Ga 2 days ago were 101 ambient but the humidity was 60-70%. I never had temps over 190 F oil or water , with the a/c on and stop and go traffic(not bumper to bumper type nowjust regular red light stuff)
I think Jeff is on the right track for yall's area, but it is a damn shame yall have to do that.
I have never hit 230F except one time on track during a red flag situation and i then shut her down.
You running 20w/50 oil? Synthetic or dino? Do you pre mix? at 15k Mazda should give you a new engine man-- fi or not. Thats stupid. What are they going to say the engine cannot take a 8lb boost for 15K. The heat factor is well documneted out there in non fi cars also. Its stupid. Helll i am getting mad for ya! Stupid, stupid, stupid Mazda crap.
OD

The humidity seems to be your saving grace. My stop and go traffic is just red lights and slow drivers here. We don't have much bumper to bumper traffic YET. When the cooling water temperature gets to 220 degrees the air conditioner quits working (just blows hot air) and will not come on again until the temp goes down.

When the air temperature hits 90 degrees I use 20s/50 Royal Purple and never use any viscosity lower that 30 even in the winter. I did not start premixing until I have 1000 miles on the car and then used Pettit premix until introduced to the alternative. I am religious about making sure the oil is clean and premix is in the tank. Drop a note to Ray and ask him how I take care of my ride. He has first hand knowledge of the care I have give this car. Ray and I have been extremely proactive on the overheating problems and every little cooling idea or mod has been done to my car.

Our local Mazda dealer put me in the computer early on even before I had the s/c as being overly modded and not eligible for warranty. I did contact MNAO and received back an answers stating that each of their dealers is a separate entity and not controlled by Mazda. They could do nothing for me sorry but I should have consulted Mazda before making the mods. Since I am in the computer, I am told that no dealer will touch me for any warranty work.

I'm sure if I got to the right people some of that could have been changed but at this stage and time there is no need to even try. I have been very vocal and did not try to hide my name.

Ray, Jeff and Eric will do a rebuild that will have every piece gone over with a fine tooth comb. I imagine that as long as I can keep the temperature under control this rebuild should last for the foreseeable future.

I guess the Million Dollar question becomes: how do we keep her cooler? As you said, just about every cooling mod avaiable has been done already... :banghead:

Short of a pipeline to Lake Mead, I do not know. I hope Ray comes up with an idea. I would hate to have to run more radiators. The one I have in there now would cool a 700hp piston engine...........don't figure.

problem = stop and go traffic, right?

Its not carbon.
We'll get it fixed up.

yeah, this does not sound like Carbon at all. Heat + seals = :(
can't wait for the tear down pics / video

That's the positive note that I've been waiting for. I don't think that the way I drive will allow carbon to form anywhere. Red lines have never been something I was afraid of.

Yours will be a great example unfortunately of the "next level" cooling requirements? I knew your car had and still is extremely well maintained and watched.
I really do not understand this. Not really. The s.c. is not even in boost during normal driving ie--cruising. Your tuning is right on, your mods are the latest and greatest, the car is babied in its upkeep. very low mileage, your oil certainly can take the heat.
WTF?
Maybe move that dang a/c condenser to a horizontal position with its own small fan, seal the radiator up tight, maybe time to toss the oem size radiator and think of a substitute? Hell I dont know--just feel the frustration here dude.
The findings are sure is going to be interesting
OD

if the compression is down on all chambers - does anyone have any theories as to where the loss is occuring ? Does not make sense that all the apex seals just wore out at once

Its most likely that the housings distorted near the plug holes or the irons distorted and ate the side seals.

I lost my 1st one at 20K

I'm sorry for your loss Phil. I'm doing my best to help you :)

Having done my research, I always knew that I would prematurely loose this engine. After all an '04 in the desert is almost a preordained loss to at least one engine. I am a gambler living in Vegas so I played the odds that I could forestall it for a reasonable length of mileage. Believing that I had "covered" all the bases and with the exception of heat could beat the odds. Heat beat me this time but some how will never again with this car. I am fortunate to have local friends that are supportive and helpful and even more blessed to have other friends that will be going out of their way to fix this problem child.

Big tank of water in the trunk hooked up to a snow performance w/m kit. Two nozzles in the intake, one special nozzle in front of the radiator. Have them turn on early(2.5V) and peak late.

I am considering having my company build me a pipeline to Lake Mead for cooling purposes the only trouble there is that time time of year it's temperature is 90 degrees and the heat this car generates would raise the lake temp more than the EPA would allow:) .

Fun aside, tanks for injection are already in the manufacturer stages and a BHR injection block is already setting there just waiting for fluids. That nozzle(s) in front of the radiator has been discussed several times. I would have to shroud the radiator to make a swamp cooler arrangement out of it for it to be effective. When you have 4% humidity at 112+ degrees you do not have much cooling coming from a light spray open to atmosphere. The arrangement of our radiator mounting also leads to reflected heat from the pavement (when tested last week was 131 degrees f) In addition our tap water is so hard that the radiator cooling fins would be clogged very early in the use and while distilled water is not very expensive, it would be inconvenient.

I have (thru BHR) my supercharger temps under control with the over-sized after cooler so you would think that the engine would be easy.

Spraying water on the rad does nothing.

I agree but it had been discussed - I don't have the thermal numbers to show why not but it does not offer any relief.

we checking the compression in 2 weeks when we're all out there?

Well, Jeff is the one with the fancy compression checker that does all three chambers at once. I seem to remember he is hauling that around now as a "must have" tool. I'll see if I can be sure he brings it.

You gonna make me work on a pleasure trip?

I pumped an entire gallon of water through the rad when it started to get warm with a high-pressure pump and a set of mister jets and it did absolutely nothing.

How can anyone with a handle of Mazda Maniac be expected to do any thing but work??? I think all those SoCal guys are kinda worried.

it's your Birthday, I guess we'll let you off the hook. ;)

Phil, i have spoken with people i know and they think and i am inclined to agree that you do need more cooling surface area but it needs to be separate from the cooling area of the oem and it cant jeopardize proper
flow.
Currently my top choice at present is a frame rail cooler or coolers. Old street rods use them for oil or trans cooling..
when i installed my kit i rerouted the heater hose that comes out of the engine on the drivers side and went under the car with it. plenty of room under there for this type of cooler(or even 2), it would be protected, away from the other heat choice, the additional hosing can also be used (use "cool hose") to dispense even more of the heat.
just a thought.
olddragger

they suggested 3 cubic inches of cooling surface area per h/p.
OD

I will discuss this with the boys, it's another idea. The only thing I see that may be a problem would be mounting anything under the car. Radiated head from the roads are extreamly high and would interfer with heat transfer.