ANIBALRX8

Hi my name is Anibal, its been a while. I have a 04 rx8 with 87,000 miles, mazda replace my engine at 43,000 miles and i had never had a problem until now. its has foil my spark plug twice times with in a month and half. So I stop driving her. I had a friend stop by and hear her starting, which is hard now (like if its flooded, but it does star) and hear her idles fine, there is a littler hesitation went you step on it, but she still gets to 9,000rpm with no problem. He works on Rx8 at mazda and toll me it could be fuel injector sense we can hear it clicking (tit tit tit) with out trying to get close to them or the new fuel pump is bad( meaning that the regulator is not regulating the correct pressure and is making the injectors leak inside the engine, there for foiling my spark plugs) plus we put a can tool on the car and the long term fuel is at 10.0+ and the cat temp is at 12,000f went its idling ( I check this three times now went the car was cold, with the same out came) in the last eight month I have change coils, wires, spark plug as regular maintenance(march 2015), then i got a cell, bad cat, so I change its (two weeks later). Then two weeks later running lean and it foul my spark plug, so I change them and the maf sensor. after that I got a cell running rich, so I change the fuel pump(about a Month later). Then a month later With out a cell it dye on me, Spark plug foil I manage to get her started and driver home from settler at 6,000rpm all the way home to puyallup, were she's been park sense. I do remember that the hard starting part started one month after I put the new fuel pump which is from Autozone, all parts are new less then 1,000 miles.

Am thinking on changing the fuel pump under warranty and if that does not fix her then replace the fuel injector.

Any advice would be helpful, specially now, Thanks

Loki

iTrader: (1)

A few things : stop changing parts and do proper diagnosis. High ltft and fouling points to excess fuel, not low. Can you read the AFR with the tool you uses to get ltft? Also is that +10 at any particular rpm range? The car thinks it needs more fuel to reach the target AFR, so there must be more airflow than the sensors report, or insufficient fuel flow. But insufficient fuel flow wouldn't foul your plugs and that earlier CEL for lean condition confirms excess air.

Eliminate simple things first: vacuum leak, incorrect spark plug wire order, clean MAF and ESS while you're at it.

I wouldn't put time into the fuel pump at the moment, the odds of having one bad in the exact same way as your last one are lower than the odds that it wasn't the problem to begin with. However it's easy to test fuel pressure and know for sure.

2) delete your other threads, one is enough. You get less help by spamming, not more.

3) it's very hard to understand what you wrote. If you can't take the time to explain properly, folks here aren't going to take the time to parse out what you're trying to say.

How well does it start when warm?
Have you actually examined the injectors?
Are there any check engine codes now?

RX8Soldier

iTrader: (24)

Haha Loki, I just made a reply in one of the other multiple threads the op created. Similar to your response. I'll delete my response from the other thread and just post it here.

FROM OTHER THREAD:
First off, it's against forum rules to create multiple threads on the same topic. It's considered spamming.

Second, it's difficult to gather what your issue is. You are having trouble starting the car?

If your plugs are indeed fouled, you could have leaking injectors. But the fuel trims are giving me reason to believe that you have an air leak. It could also be a dirty ess, maf, air filter, etc.

Have you read the "starting issues start here" sticky? That is where I would start.

gwilliams6

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tro...t-here-222584/

ANIBALRX8

Car start after two or three tries of cranking for eight to ten seconds, after that it's starts on the fist tried in five seconds went it's warms and she idler fine, but she hesitate went you start giving her gas, not like she use to behave. Maf sensor is new I replace three time under warranty, air filter is clean, its an k & n drop in the factory air box, clean it twice and no I had no cell. The 10.+ long term fuel is went it idle and if I give it gas it gets higher, but I have not been driving it sense the last time it foil my spark plugs, I been starting it every now and then to see if I get a cell or if it start running like before this started, I have had the car sense new, so I know how she normally start up in like two second with out any hesitation, but now it's like I have to force her to start, I also did the twenty foot brake pedal to clear the memory. I have not clean the ess, as I been busy at work and winter started. But it's time to start working on her again, that's why am reaching out to the members here.

Am sorry for the double posting, as I don't have good internet service were I leave and I did not see it posting until today, I try to delete with no luck.

As for the fuel injector I have not look at them yet, and I have not found a vacuum leak, which is what I was thinking, until the rx8 Mecanic that works for Mazda came to see it and toll me its most likely a primary fuel injector. Since then I do hear the fuel injector on and off, it's start tick, tick, tick then it's stops for a few seconds and then it starts again, which makes me thinks that it is a fuel injector, and he told me that there hard to get to, so I don't want to do it if I don't have to.
Long term fuel at idler should be at 0 or close to it, right? and if I can read the AFR with my can tool what am I looking for, or what's normal. This way I can go and see what I get on my day off.

One more question, went I start the car and its idling the cat temp goes to 1,200+, which the rx8 mecanic toll me its should be at 700 to 800, and that its this hight because its dumping a lot of gas and the cat its working extra hard to burn the gas making it so hot, can anybody here tell me if this is true. I check my mazda speed3 and its starts at like five hundred and slowly work it way to 800 and long term fuel it at 0 or close to it.

Also my cat is from mides, and it has less then 1,000 miles on it.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

Might have to bite the bullet and get those injectors tested, but I don't believe that's the problem. You're clearly getting too much fuel, but the only thing that puts me off an injector diagnosis is the +10 LTFT. That's your car asking for more fuel, not a leaking injector.

Your AFR at cold idle should be mid 12ish gradually improving to 14.7 as the car warms. Do this: record all the available numbers, in particular STFT, LTFT, AFR, Airflow g/sec, Airflow voltage, calculated load.

That Midas cat won't last long at the rotary exhaust temp. However the fact that your old cat failed is another symptom, you were dumping fuel before that happened.

ANIBALRX8

the cat fail went my coil started to go bad, around 80,000 miles (original coil)I pretty sure I drove with them bad for a year as my miles kept droving, until one day one of them went out completely, dumping gas and melting my trim around my exhaust, which gave me my fist code 0300p and 0301p. After that it gave me the code for the cat, which I new its would. At that point I change the cat and then I kept getting a code running lean, so thats went I change both o2 sensor, then maf sensor and fuel pump, then code did not come back for a month, so then it came back but running rich this time, so I change the maf sensor under warranty And the car felt great for a month. after that its went i started to feel her starting funny, taking twice as long and two weeks later that went it foil my spark plugs, I change them and she still feel the same. Thats went i started checking for vacuum leak and i had that rx8 mecanic come in, and he's the one that mention fuel injectors

ANIBALRX8

Here is what I got today, on my odb2 reader(picture below)
Now yesterday I clean the ESS sensor and reset the computer, then I started the car and after two tries she started. I waited for her to warm up and then I started to wot her to 9,000rpm to see if she would do what she's been doing (which is that she hesitate from 1,000 to 2,000 and then kept on going) so I got nothing, she is still idlers fine and went I wot her, she kept on going with out any hesitation, like if she's back to normal. So today I took her to get her emission test and she pass, got my tabs and drover a round town and she seems find, but she is still not starting right alway 50% of the times went I turn her off and start her again. It takes her 8 to 10 second to start, so I turn on my can tool on my I phone and started to monitor her AFR, which seems fine At 14.8 and went wot it would drop to 11.9, which I read that its normal. So the problem its not my injectors. So I started to check the short term fuel trim in case I have a vacuum leak ,which was what I was thinking before. I read that if it stays at 0%,+/-1% its ok you don't have a vacuum leak, but if you are oscillating around , or holding steady with ~+5% or more, you have a vacuum leak, so I think that I have a vacuum leak as she kept moving from -4.7% to +4.9% at idler, that was the highest, 90% of the time its -03.2% or +02.3%.

So before I buy the intake gaskets and start looking for the leaking gasket, what do you guys think?

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Hey...long time no hear

Don't worry about your STFT..they are transient and not a concern (unless just after a reset)

Reset the computer and drive it for a few drive cycles and watch the LTFT. If your LTFT is +/-10 you could easily be within a "normal" position for a 12 year old car. You will likely be chasing your tail to get it any lower unless you want to pull the injectors and clean and redo all the seals. If it is more than 10 you likely will want to look for something. A 10-15+ fuel trim at idle only is most likely a small vac leak...look at the VFAD nipple. It often will be the issue

Do some more diagnosis and logging and it will save you some pissing around

ANIBALRX8

Thanks

I am getting 12.7 on my ltft and I just finish reading that what my car is doing with the stft is normal, but anything higher then 11 on the ltft, it's a vacuum leak, so I guess I have to keep searching for it��

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Did you check and see if it's only in the idle rage that the LTFT is so high?

ANIBALRX8

What do you mean? I have been checking it at idler, But this Thursday and Friday am going to driver her around town (Puyallup and graham) I can check if it goes down, which am guessing its what it need to do?

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

The computer adjusts LTFT in ranges...so if the big discrepancy is only in the idle range that points to a small vac leak. If it is through the whole range you would look at a poor injector or other fuel delivery issue

ANIBALRX8

I drover her today for 7 miles and this is what I got from her every time I gave her gas hard to 9,000rpm 18.0. She did dip down to 9.0 at one stop light. At normal driving it between the 11.7 and 18.0. but she is hold at 11.7 at idler now. She feels normal now.

Am planing to driver to Lacey and back this Thursday and see how she behaves and get some more readings. Am also thinking on getting a compression test.

ANIBALRX8

Fuel trim: How it works and how to make it work for you - Automotive Service Professional

So I read this article on this website and you have to take both the stft and ltft and combine them, so I did and the average that I got from all the pictures that I took of my odb2 reader which is 13, is 11.6, which its says that its not bad for a ten year old car, but my car is all over the place as low as 6.6 to as hight as 18.8 or could it be that its still trying to learn it seft, after I reset the computer?

Loki

iTrader: (1)

LTFT is the thing that the computer is learning when it's....learning. It should not jump around for a given load, but obviously it will have a different value at different load/rpm.

So if it's 18 ltft near redline, does that mean LTFT generally rises with rpm/load? You're revving it out in gear, right?

That would point to an injector issue as someone said. The car isn't able to adequately fuel itself so it asks for more fuel. You AFR appears correct so the right amount of air and fuel is coming in.

So....is the problem solved? Does the car start and drive well now?

ANIBALRX8

The car has a hard time starting at first, like 10 seconds or two tries, after that it's start on the first tried in like 6 second, drives fine and idlers fine. I get the 18.0 went I give it gas, stop or in any gear. So I was thinking vacumm leak, but I don't hear anything and I have spray starting Fluid on the intake and vacuum line with no luck! So you think it is the fuel injectors then?

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

I would swap out the primary injectors and see if it stops

What are you doing this weekend? I am in Bellvue Friday afternoon to Sunday and can bring you a couple of known injectors to swap in to try

ANIBALRX8

So I got home today started her and waited for her to warm up, after that park at home if I give it gas, and reach 4,000rpm or higher it goes to 18.0. I drover her around the block and same thing, anything higher then 4,000rpm it goes to 18.0.
So am going to wait to do my taxes and get all six fuel injectors and change them out.

dannobre I would like your help if you can, ones I get the injector and seals, I have never change injector before, so am a little bit scare to do it by my seft, so any help locally would be appreciated, I will pay for you fuel and I can give you some cash for your help, I don't have much but will do my best, thanks you all for the help.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Need to check the fuel pressure first. I wouldn't change all the injectors. It is not likely that they are the whole issue if they are at all. I have a full set if it comes to trial and error. I will bring some stuff this weekend if you have time. PM me if you have tool or if I should bring some

ANIBALRX8

Am off on Thursday and Friday but it going to rain on does day and I don't have a garage, I have a friend that has a canopy that I can get, if you still want to do it, if not we can wait, so just let me know please. I send you a massage with my cell.

ANIBALRX8

Do the dense fuel injectors come with the o-ring and does it have only one or two? I found them at RockAuto.com for $97.79 primary and $96.89 secondary plus $7 shipping. I don't think its a bad price.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

You are still spending $600 and not sure that is the problem

ANIBALRX8

what else do you think it could be, may be the fuel pump regulator inside the fuel pump?

I have lifetime warranty for my fuel pump, plus the Auto parts store were I got it change from airtex to delphi and toll me that there better and that he had some airtex not work for some commercial account brand new out of the box, so he's is happy for the change, but it did not help to see one employee drop a couple of fuel pump from the top shell, trying to stock them, lol

I figure if I change the fuel pump again And its still doing it, at less I know it not the fuel pump and its very ease to change!

Loki

iTrader: (1)

You can burn a lot of money buying parts that may or may not be the problem. Diagnosing is cheaper Take out the injectors that are there now, perhaps send them out for testing /cleaning or at least look at them and do some basic testing/cleaning yourself? Also... Since the issue is at idle, you probably don't need to replace the secondaries. They do nothing at idle. You can just buy one primary, replace one injector at a time until the problem goes away or it doesn't and you look for the problem elsewhere.

Say, are the spark plugs on one rotor more carboned up/visibly coated in gas than in the other rotor? That would be more indication of which injector (or other function) the problem is attributed to. You need information more than parts...

You can change the fuel pump if you want, but since nothing changed when you last changed it, that's probably not a good use of time.

But to be honest, I still think it's a vac leak. It walks like a vac leak and it quaks like a vac leak. Have you checked all the tubes, including ones going to the VFAD? You have stoich mixture and normal lb/min of measured airflow, so that extra fuel that the car is commanding with ltft is being mixed with some extra air that comes in unmeasured. If that weren't the case you wouldn't have stoich AFR, and if it were one injector, the car would visibly not run right and misfire at high rpm.